Hi all,

I've got a 2004 Expedition 4.6, took it with me from Europe to Papua New Guinea (USA car originally). 70K miles and never had an issue apart from battery.

~6 months ago had issues where the car wouldn't crank or start, it sat at local ford dealer for a week until they proclaimed it fixed but next day it had the same problem. Filipino man noticed the battery lead (red one) couldn't tighten properly so he fastened it with a metal wire and didn't have an issue since.

Sadly last week the issue came up again and the car wouldn't start at all. Another mechanic took a look at it and got the following codes:



We changed the battery and it started (much easier than before I may add, where it could crank for up to 4-5 seconds sometimes...now instant). However, if I turn it off and want to start it again within half an hour or so, all I get is the immobilizer light flashing rapidly, no crank, no start. I only have 1 original key, 2 FOB's (both programmed) and no matter what I do, it won't start...

EDIT: I meant to add that after changing the battery, it seems the above codes have disappeared, the only code I get now whenever it doesn't start is Code 15 (key issue the internet tells me)



The previous owner also had this installed but the button doesn't work anymore...apparently it was a bypass system, if the car wouldn't start press the button and it would start. But the Button is seized solid.

Anyways,

I want to either remove the PATS system, I've found some online but that requires sending the ECU....with the way posting is these days (stuff getting lost even with DHL) and the time required (bet on at least 3 weeks from here and back!), it's really a last resort issue. My mechanic is ford trained and has access to the full computer etc. He wants the circuit for the PATS to bypass it but I haven't had luck finding it yet. The typical ford car here are not USA spec cars, only ford Focus, rangers and everests.

 

The previously retrieved codes are likely now irrelevant. I wouldn't worry about them.

The only way to "remove" the PATS system is to have the PCM/ECU reprogrammed. There is no other way to remove or bypass it completely. There are limited bypass procedures possible but they do require that the built-in system and all components, including a valid key, be functional. I've previously described one of them as a "redneck PATS bypass" on this and other Ford forums.

The PO-installed switch cannot actually bypass the PATS system, but it would be interesting to dig into what was actually bypassed. Perhaps it's a bypass of some other failing component in the starting system. Someone would have to trace the wires and see where they are connected.

Before doing anything else, swap out the PCM Power Relay with an identical relay that performs a non-critical function. MARK THEM FIRST! A flaky PCM Power Relay often causes your symptoms because the system doesn't power up correctly and the typical symptom manifests as what is interpreted as a "PATS problem".

FWIW, having only ONE key is living on the edge for someone who lives near available service facilities. To do so in a very remote part of the world is just inviting disaster and a simple loss of the key will render the vehicle completely inoperable until until everything needed can be replaced and reprogrammed.

 

Thanks for the reply, very helpful as we asked our Ford trained mechanic to remove the PATS system...thankfully we didn't get started yet!

He has access to full ford computer with his laptop, should he be able to reprogram the module or will he need different kind of specialist software? I did some digging the other day and people seemed to have send their ECU off to other forum members as apparently it was cheaper than having the dealer do it. Cost isn't the issue here, time is .

I've ordered 2 transponder keys, hopefully they'll be here in the next 2 weeks. My Mechanic can program them. Hunting to see if I can get the correct PCM Power relay locally otherwise will order one of those, too.

Again, thank you for your help and will keep you updated!

Bas

 

You can also program the keys using the free ForScan program. ForScan Download

Those three relays along the top of the fusebox are all the same, so in a pinch you can swap one of the others into the PCM relay slot ( top right relay ).

 

Thank you.

fuses/relays checked and swapped...The car started right up the other yesterday. Took it home (it was at a parking lot on the weekend), started again every time. Took it to the shops today but had someone stay in the car so I didn't need to turn it off, as didn't trust it fully yet.

Good thing, because at home I turned it off, then when i tried to switch it on again, same issue as before.

---
New Symptom

Yesterday and throughout the night every 4-5 hours or so it lets of a single ''beep'' of the horn. Didn't hear this before...no one can come near the car, dogs where all inside.

Mechanic will look at the wiring on the friday, he did say it interfered with the PATS system. The switch on it isn't functional anymore (seems the spring inside is stuck). Will update again.

Once again thank you for your time. the car may not be much, especially in the states...but I just love the damn thing. Especially over here where it's all Nissan's and Toyotas it's nice to have a proper V8 at least!

 

so it seems now that the PATS is not talking to PCM. I'm trying to find the correct diagram but currently failing.

Also an anyone tell me if this PATS is the original version? Or has it been replaced?

 

That's got nothing to do with PATS, it's a dealer-installed remote security system.

 

Yeah that's just the Ford (Code Alarm) remote start module. What key FOB do you have ? A single button type ? That would be the remote start key fob.
The normal key FOB is a 4-button standard early Ford FOB. That push button that someone attached to your lower knee bolster is the programming button for the remote start module.
Pressing that button at random times can cause all sorts of issues with the remote start module. It really shouldn't have been stuck out where you could easily access it. It's normally tucked away up under the dash and only used when programming the remote start module.
Even with that module out of the vehicle your PATS security light is still blinking right ?


Ford dealer installed remote start key FOB .... (Code Alarm)

 

Thanks. So could this be removed? I have another local tracking system in the car as well....

Thanks. I have the 4 button standard remote (2 of them, both programmed)

I'll have to double check if the module is still blinking if we remove the dealer installed security system.. maybe removing that thing will solve all the problems!

 

The unit shown is not the remote start system, its the alarm/remote entry variant.

 

Project is right. I don't even think that is the security plus module, just the basic alarm / door lock version. Sorry. I got excited for a second. You found that right there under the driver's dash right? Is this an XLT model ? Did you find a little LED that flashes under the dash near it ?
I did find the installation guide for that unit if you want to download it and read it over. I think you can just unplug the T-harness and plug the truck's factory plug back into the steering column plug and cut that thing out of the pattern completely. You'll probably need the original type key FOBs when you're done.

Free Download: Ford VSS Installation Guide

Did you try to reset that inertia safety switch back in the left rear quarter panel ?
That thing gets jostled pretty easy and will kill the fuel pump. Mine triggered just because I had the front end up on ramps. It causes more headaches than a flat tire.
Open that little compartment up and push that red button down to make sure it's not triggered.

 

Bas550,

Did you ever do what I advised you to do a week ago? The conversation seems to have detoured down a rabbit trail...

 

Thanks...I did check this just now but still have the red light blinking very fast and no start no crank. You are correct it's a 2004 XLT. it's indeed under the dash but the LED switch doesn't do anything. Unsure if the LED itself is still functional anyways as my niece stood on it years ago. I had a new switch put on it but still no fix. Need to have my mechanic take the security module out now to see if that works.

Hi, yes swapped and tested PCM Relays. Not done the redneck PATS bypass yet (I assume this is the ziptied key next to the keyhole thing?)...Did check it byy holding the key next to it and try start it with the 2nd (non transponder) key but that didn't work.

Haven't been able to send the PCM/ECU off yet, it's really a last resort thing right now. Saying that, is it possibly to buy an (ebay) PCM/ECU stateside and have it programmed there? Or will that throw up more issues as not being paired to the right PATS/VIN or something?

Headache continues...

 

New symptom now...not got a code yet:

First time of the day when trying to start it it'll crank but not start (think I got it running for less than half a second but instantly shuts down), after that it's back to basics: No crank no start, red immobilizer light flashing like crazy.

Will a PCM reset help? (take black lead off the battery, switch light on for half an our then reconnect)

Doesn't help that mechanics turn up when they feel like it instead of when asked....

 

What "red immobilizer light"? Are you referring to the factory PATS light or something else?

Did you ever delete the add-on security system? As long as that stuff remains, you've got variables present that we cannot know about.

Probably about as much as chicken soup helps when you're sick.