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1967 - 1972 F-100 & Larger F-Series Trucks Discuss the Bumpsides Ford Truck

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Old 11-13-2010, 02:03 PM
seattle smitty seattle smitty is offline
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Old bread truck

New here; howdy, howdy. I'm looking at an old Oroweat bread truck that's for sale. Grumman-Olson Kurb Van aluminum body on a Ford one-ton chassis. Single rear tires, not dually. Inline 300-six, 4-speed with granny low. I-beam front axle, not the twin I-beams. Brake master cylinder looks to be the old single reservoir style, not the split (safety) system. Roughly 12' from behind the driver to the rear doors. Very flat nose, hardly anything you could call a hood, although there is a small hinged access panel that you could call a "hood" if you were cracking wise. Vehicle runs and drives, everything works but the brake lights, and the engine is noisy due to a cracked exhaust manifold.

That's about all I know so far, and I don't think the owner knows much more, but I'm wondering if any of you can tell me a few things.

What chassis would this have been? Was there one called a P-350? I don't know if the Econolines of that era ever had one-ton, E-350 chassis.

Any guess as to what that tranny was called? I'd think about replacing it, if possible, with a wide-ratio truck 4-speed that does NOT have a granny low gear, which I don't think I'd use (although I'll try it when I get the vehicle all equipped and loaded).

I'm assuming the brake switch is bad (didn't have a way to jump it when I looked at the vehicle the frist time, tho' I did pull some connectors apart and put them together a few times to clean any corrosion). It's a wierd looking switch on the back end of the brake push-rod, with a little spring. Did all the E/F/P(?)-350s have this switch?

Did the rest of the -350 chassis stay about the same when Ford went to the Twin I-beam front end? I'm assuming that if it is practical to convert to the Twin I-beam configuration, that would be a way to get a little better ride and big disc brakes. True? Anybody done it? I'm a welder, and can add tabs, brackets, swaybar mounts, etc..
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Old 11-13-2010, 02:36 PM
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Post the information that is on the warranty ID plate.
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Old 11-13-2010, 06:38 PM
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There was indeed a P-350, not sure what chassis it was based on though. From the single piston master and the solid axle I would guess you have a vehicle older than the 1970s, maybe from the early 1960s. Some pictures would help. But, the warranty plate would clear any doubts.

As far as transmissions go, you should look into putting a ZF 5 speed in there, it has granny and overdrive and it's a very tough transmission. To do it you'd need some drive shaft work and a hydraulic clutch, but it would be a nice combination.


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Old 11-15-2010, 01:27 PM
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Well that was dumb! My first post, and I post it to the wrong forum (my vehicle-of-interest is a '68)!! If a site host happens to see this and is willing to transfer this thread to its proper place, that would be a kindness. Meanwhile . . . .

I'm an old guy, but I don't know the term, "warranty plate". There was a Grumman-Olson badge on the dash, but it has been scraped and bashed enough over the years that any numbers are unreadable, and anyway that's just the body; it's a Ford truck. What I do have, and maybe this is what you're after, is the VIN number:
B26636DG40JLC57392
It was last licensed commercial, 10,000 gross wt..

I found the brake switch, a funny-looking metal affair, originally Borg-Warner as I understand all Ford brake switches were, and available now as a Niehoff S643 for $10.49 at O'Leary. That should get the truck to where I can drive it home, about an hour's drive.

Thanks for the interest and ideas.
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Old 11-15-2010, 07:59 PM
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The title caught my eye so I'll rant a bit. I, too am an old guy. I bought a similar van, 12' Boyerton body, DRW Ford chassis, in 1967. It was a 1963 model with the six cylinder, a HD three on the tree and somewhere around 6:1 final drive gears. Definately an around town delivery vehicle. First thing I did was replace the six and three speed with a 292 Y block, a four speed granny gear box and 4:10 gears. All the above made it roadable so I converted it to a camper/motorhome. We drove that thing thousands of miles over the next several years traveling, camping and pulling our 24 foot boat at times. What a horse in its day.
I found the straight axle to be very drivable, good road manners, etc. Radial tires were becoming available and they made a huge difference. The straight tranny with new gearing gave it a decent cruise speed for those days........Not much interstate completed.
So, SS, what are your plans for the van?
JMO, but I would think long and hard before I swapped a straight axle for twin I beams. Probably get more solid handling with DRW.
Yeah, we may be a bit off topic from '73-79 F series but what the heck, we are talking Ford trucks.
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Old 11-26-2010, 01:05 PM
seattle smitty seattle smitty is offline
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Found out that all of the "parcel delivery (trucks)" (also generically called bread-trucks or step-vans by some) used a P350 chassis, and either a New Process or Warner (IIRC; I read this a week or more ago) tranny.

Ray, you're very likely right that adapting the twin I-beam front end would be more trouble than any improvement warranted. I had no complaint about the beam axle in my old '66 Econoline. I was particularly thinking of big disc brakes, since I anticipate carrying more load than the bakery ever did. I'm going to use this as a mobile welding truck, and have already talked to a spring expert about this. He said don't bother calculating probable loads; just equip it the way I will use it, then bring him the vehicle. He will take some careful measurements and re-spring it as needed.
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Old 11-26-2010, 01:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seattle smitty View Post
Well that was dumb! My first post, and I post it to the wrong forum (my vehicle-of-interest is a '68)!! If a site host happens to see this and is willing to transfer this thread to its proper place, that would be a kindness. Meanwhile . . . .

I'm an old guy, but I don't know the term, "warranty plate". There was a Grumman-Olson badge on the dash, but it has been scraped and bashed enough over the years that any numbers are unreadable, and anyway that's just the body; it's a Ford truck. What I do have, and maybe this is what you're after, is the VIN number:
B26636DG40JLC57392
It was last licensed commercial, 10,000 gross wt..

I found the brake switch, a funny-looking metal affair, originally Borg-Warner as I understand all Ford brake switches were, and available now as a Niehoff S643 for $10.49 at O'Leary. That should get the truck to where I can drive it home, about an hour's drive.

Thanks for the interest and ideas.
Moved to proper forum.
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Old 11-26-2010, 01:34 PM
seattle smitty seattle smitty is offline
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Oh, good, thank you sir; I'll try to not make that mistake again!!
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Old 12-15-2010, 06:14 PM
seattle smitty seattle smitty is offline
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Where would I look for some kind of data plate (Ford, not Grumman-Olson) on this truck? I can't see it anywhere around the (one, curb-side) door. It's titled as a '68, but I wonder. I trace the brake-light problem to the turn-signal switch inside the hub of the steering wheel. The cancelling ring and other mechanical parts of this switch are metal; only the housing around the electrical part of the switch is plastic. But when I look at switches on the web for '68 Ford trucks, they look different, newer, with more plastic. I'm wondering if my p350 chassis is a '67 sold as a '68, or something older yet. The single-outlet brake master cylinder might be a clue; I thought all brake systems had to be the dual reservoir, dual outlet kind from about 1966-on.

Wonder why every car/truck I buy turns out to be an orphan, and finding parts an endless hassle . . .
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Old 12-16-2010, 02:17 PM
seattle smitty seattle smitty is offline
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When I got home yesterday, I dismantled the old switch, trying to avoid spending sixty five bucks plus shipping for a new switch (if I can find the right one). Pried back the four metal tabs holding the plastic top of the electrical section of the switch. Unfortunately, once I had it apart I could see that all the contacts were worn out, and they weren't the kind you could build back up with a drop of solder and have it last for long. So I'm back to hunting down a switch. If I knew how to do it, I'd post a photo.
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Old 12-17-2010, 11:48 PM
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I'm not sure on your electrical problems, but to post picture you need to go to a photo hosting site like this one: ImageShack® - Online Photo and Video Hosting create an account, upload your pictures, and it should give you a list of codes. Pick the one that says "IMG code for Forums" and copy and paste that into your post. That should put the picture in your post for you, let us know if you have any trouble with it.

Sam
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Old 01-10-2011, 07:25 PM
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Finally found my switch! And a great parts company, the Early Ford Store of CA. Read about them in the "Aftermarket" sub-forum.

(Sam, I'll refer back to your info when I have a photo worth sharing; thank you!)
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Old 01-11-2011, 06:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seattle smitty View Post
New here; howdy, howdy. I'm looking at an old Oroweat bread truck that's for sale. Grumman-Olson Kurb Van aluminum body on a Ford one-ton chassis. Single rear tires, not dually. Inline 300-six, 4-speed with granny low. I-beam front axle, not the twin I-beams. Brake master cylinder looks to be the old single reservoir style, not the split (safety) system. Roughly 12' from behind the driver to the rear doors. Very flat nose, hardly anything you could call a hood, although there is a small hinged access panel that you could call a "hood" if you were cracking wise. Vehicle runs and drives, everything works but the brake lights, and the engine is noisy due to a cracked exhaust manifold.

That's about all I know so far, and I don't think the owner knows much more, but I'm wondering if any of you can tell me a few things.

What chassis would this have been? Was there one called a P-350? I don't know if the Econolines of that era ever had one-ton, E-350 chassis.

Any guess as to what that tranny was called? I'd think about replacing it, if possible, with a wide-ratio truck 4-speed that does NOT have a granny low gear, which I don't think I'd use (although I'll try it when I get the vehicle all equipped and loaded).

I'm assuming the brake switch is bad (didn't have a way to jump it when I looked at the vehicle the frist time, tho' I did pull some connectors apart and put them together a few times to clean any corrosion). It's a wierd looking switch on the back end of the brake push-rod, with a little spring. Did all the E/F/P(?)-350s have this switch?

Did the rest of the -350 chassis stay about the same when Ford went to the Twin I-beam front end? I'm assuming that if it is practical to convert to the Twin I-beam configuration, that would be a way to get a little better ride and big disc brakes. True? Anybody done it? I'm a welder, and can add tabs, brackets, swaybar mounts, etc..
P Series Parcel Delivery made 1953/77. It could be a P350, P400 or P500.

The VIN number you posted is not Ford related, it's body maker related. Look on the registration, see if it has an 11 digit Ford VIN that begins with a P.

The P Series shares very few parts with any other Ford trucks, many were only supplied by the body maker.

It's not related to an Econoline, or an F Series, because...it's a P Series. The engine/trans/rear axle are the same, after that...very few parts are the same.

Ford sold the rolling stripped chassis, then purchasers had an outside body maker of their choice install the body and etc. This same chassis was once used by UPS and for Class A Motorhomes.

So many were used by bakery's, the P Series has been known as a 'bread truck' since day one.

1964/72 Manual Transmissions (gas engines): Column shift Borg Warner T-89 3 speed Medium Duty / New Process 435 4 speed manual (shift lever is on the floor).

1964/72 Rear Axles: P350 only = Dana 60 with or without Limited Slip / Optional in the P350, standard equipment in the P400/500 = Dana 70 with or without Limited Slip.

1967 and later came w/a dual master cylinder, so it's not a 1968 unless someone did some parts swapping.

The original stop light switch (Ford: C1AZ13480A / Motorcraft: SW24) is pressure activated, has a 2 pin wire connector, threads into a brass block at the front of the master cylinder.

This same switch was used on myriad 1942/66 FoMoCo Passenger Cars, Trucks, Bronco's and Econolines.

I have no idea what switch you're describing, I searched thru the '64/72 truck parts catalog for 1/2 hour, could not find anything that matched.

1967 and later Ford F Series trucks have the stop light switch mounted to the brake pedal. It's activated by the push rod from the master (or booster if P/B).

Edit: You found the switch, I'll have to ask the fellow at Early Ford what switch you bought.

Early Ford Store (earlyfordstore.com) is located in San Dimas, about 20 minutes away (depending on LA traffic) from me, and is one a my regular hang outs.

Not only do they have tons of used, and some NOS obsolete parts, it's a museum of all things Ford, and is located in the original 1916 building that once housed the Ford Dealer.
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Old 01-11-2011, 11:35 PM
seattle smitty seattle smitty is offline
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Holy Smoke!!! I wish I had known how to reach you earlier, but this is outstanding! If we were in Japan, you would be declared a Living National Treasure or some-such! I surely appreciate your effort on my behalf!

The brake switch, which is pushrod acctuated (I'll come back with a web-address that has a picture; my powers of description are insufficient, because I'm sure you know the switch), was indeed something that the experienced local parts-man said was not ordinarily associated with a 1968 truck. But, and I'll have to have another look to be more confident of this, my impression is that the truck is pretty original and not too cobbled-up by previous owners. I haven't picked it up yet, not wanting to drive it without brake lights.

Further investigation showed that the brake switch itself was okay (after I'd bought a new one on the owner's advice)(but that's fine, they don't last forever). The problem was where the brake wires go through the turn signal switch. I removed and disassembled that switch, hoping I could save it, but it was irretrievably worn out. Thanks be, I found Bill McGrath (I think that's right, must double-check) at Early Ford, and his all-new 1956-60 switch.
My (when I pick it up) rig is floor-shifted. I'm assuming it's a one-ton P350 because it has single 16" tires on one-piece rims on the rear axle.

got a battery warning, be back tomorrow. THANK YOU!!!
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Old 01-12-2011, 01:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seattle smitty View Post
Further investigation showed that the brake switch itself was okay (after I'd bought a new one on the owner's advice)(but that's fine, they don't last forever). The problem was where the brake wires go through the turn signal switch.

I removed and disassembled that switch, hoping I could save it, but it was irretrievably worn out. Thanks be, I found Bill McGrath (I think that's right, must double-check) at Early Ford, and his all-new 1956-60 switch.
B6C13341A .. Turn Signal Switch / Obsolete

Fits: All 1956 Ford Trucks / 1957/77 P350/500.

If the switch from Early Ford isn't correct, I found 5 of these at 4 sources NOS (CO, KS, OH, NY).
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Old 01-12-2011, 01:51 AM
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