All out natural build

Reply Subscribe

Thread Tools

Search this Thread

11-06-2010, 01:38 PM

USArmyTaterness

Posting Guru

Thread Starter

Join Date: Jul 2009

Location: Schweinfurt Germany

Posts: 1,536

Likes: 0

Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts

All out natural build

Last edited by USArmyTaterness; 11-06-2010 at 01:40 PM. Reason: spelling error

Reply Like

11-11-2010, 07:31 PM

muscletruck7379

Postmaster

Join Date: Apr 2003

Location: Harrisburg, NE

Posts: 2,703

Likes: 0

Received 2 Likes on 1 Post

I'll bet it took a while to post all those links...

Looks pretty good, but remember to budget for expendable stuff like cleaners and beer and don't forget about machine work.

Reply Like

11-11-2010, 08:32 PM

USArmyTaterness

Posting Guru

Thread Starter

Join Date: Jul 2009

Location: Schweinfurt Germany

Posts: 1,536

Likes: 0

Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts

yuppers got beer on standby finnally find my bearings will update my list found a shop to supply the rods

Reply Like

11-11-2010, 08:55 PM

Beechkid

Moderator

Join Date: Aug 2002

Location: Southern California

Posts: 5,776

Likes: 3,532

Received 210 Likes on 160 Posts

Quote:

Originally Posted by USArmyTaterness

Parkerizing is the final step that some big name cam companies will not even offer, and a crucial step to help break the cam in (a heated acid bath that microscopically etches the metal surface and adds a very thin layer of graphite coating which allows the cam lube to hang onto and penetrate into the cam surface during cam break in

Here's the problem as I see it.....

1. Comp has by appearance - seems to be a company that has experience more cam lobe failures than most and places the blame on the low ZDDP in the oils. Is it a factor yes, but I highly suspect that they are also using Chinese cam billets & are not Parkerizing their cams (Parkerizing is the final step and a crucial step to help break the cam in- a heated acid bath that microscopically etches the metal surface and adds a very thin layer of graphite coating which allows the cam lube to hang onto and penetrate into the cam surface during cam break in).

2. Who actually is the supplier for summit, I don't know and I doubt they will tell you, but knowing summit's pricing structure, I will bet their cam billets are Chinese based as well.

3. Considering the cam has such critical importance to the engines performance and life, to me it makes sense to use a cam grinder who will talk with you directly- even modify the cam grind to fit your needs even better and to address the possibility of cam lobe failure with the new oils. With regards to price...the difference is nil- especially considering its cheap insurance to know exactly who is machining such a critical part for your engine. And remember, advertized lift/duration/lobe separation is just that- advertized and not the specific grind including ramp profile that is used on the cam.

That is why I highly recommend Iskenderian & Crower...both are family owned, been grinding cams for decades, and both will even re-grind your oem cam if possible- saving you even more $.

As you are probably aware, many of the cam mfgs in the past few years either sold, closed their operations to re-open elsewhere (typically with new staff) or .......

In addition to Isky & Crower, I use to very highly recommend....
Sig Erson & Crane...

Both became part of corporate entities, eventually leading to periodic quality issues and closing their doors- I think Crane re-opened, but with a different staff. Typically the staff is very, very young and well- requires a learning curve.

If you do a search on the net, Harvey Crane has posted a little summary of the history of the people who made the cams at Crane, his opinion of what happened and the eventual outcome of several of the staff.

While there are some cam failures cause by start-up/break-in error, cam lobes that are of a street type profile should not be completely worn out in 10,000-30,000 miles- and while just about every cam mfg recommends adding ZDDP (and sells) to the oil, I still highly suspect Parkerizing is not done by some and the billets are of Chinese origin with inferior properties.

Given the criticality of the component- IMHO, I don't like speaking to a catalog parts sale person- they really don't know any more about the cam than what they are reading- companies like Summit, while their bulk purchase agreements are great for price, when it comes to making an engine breathe, there are so many variable including elevation, humidity, fuel blends/available octane, most cam mfgs will vary a "core grind pattern" to match the external impactors in addition to the internal impactors- which today IMHO makes the different between and engine that runs well, to one that just seems to run a little bit better, smoother and gets better mileage than expected.

Reply Like

11-11-2010, 09:02 PM

USArmyTaterness

Posting Guru

Thread Starter

Join Date: Jul 2009

Location: Schweinfurt Germany

Posts: 1,536

Likes: 0

Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts

I just use summit for supply and you can shop by company thats how I know whats what

As for cam failure comp cams on their site says that hardening is an extra cost that you need to pay but my machine shop will do it for less

Reply Like

11-13-2010, 01:26 PM

USArmyTaterness

Posting Guru

Thread Starter

Join Date: Jul 2009

Location: Schweinfurt Germany

Posts: 1,536

Likes: 0

Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts

So got bored decided to do come of that thing called math and found out that the compression ratio shouldn't be all that bad really I am looking at a range of 10.21 to 10.72 I was pretty happy with that then I got more bored and decided that more math might be fun and found that my rod ratio is 1.581. Then I decided to descover moe things like my pistons when going 2500rpm will travel at 29.8 ft per second. Also a calculated ET time (just from horse power and weight) will be around 9.43 on the 1/4 mile. My calculated compression height is right around 1.35in. Ok well now I am not so bored anymore and going to find something else to do.

Reply Like

01-05-2011, 01:59 AM

gazguzzler

Freshman User

Join Date: Dec 2010

Location: Seal beach

Posts: 31

Likes: 0

Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts

compression with a -3cc piston, a .010 deck and a .040 gasket should come in right at 11.2 which is great for your cam choice. Since your cam is a roller they usually do not have the wear problems like flat tappets. It is usually the needles in the rollers that die. From what I see is is a well thought out package and my guess depending on head flow should be on the far side of the high 600 hp level. I would bet with the right tune over 700 is not pushing the limits. Good Job

Reply Like