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small-list Digest Mon, 02 Oct 2000 Volume: 2000  Issue: 162

In This Issue:
Synthetic Oil
Sparks BACK!!  (and parts-house thoughts as well as "spar
Recalled tires - good news
Re: [Synthetic Oil]
Re: [Synthetic Oil]
Re: [Synthetic Oil]
Re: [Synthetic Oil]
Re: [Sparks BACK!!  (and parts-house thoughts as well as
Re: [Synthetic Oil]
Re: [Recalled tires - good news]
Fog Lights
Re: [Synthetic Oil]
Re: [Synthetic Oil]
Re: Fog Lights

----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Richard Steinfeld" <rgstein lmi.net>
Subject: Synthetic Oil
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 20:48:47 -0700

My experience with Mobil 1 oil a number of years ago was outstanding. My
Honda Civic was flogged up and down the hills of San Francisco. I bought the
car new and drove it to the junkyard twelve years later. In all that time
there were no engine repairs whatsoever: the motor was never opened. Period.

Tim Turner wrote:

With the exception of it seeming to leak at a quicker rate Vs. standard oils
none bad from me.

I didn't have this experience with Mobil 1. But I sure did with Valvoline
synthetic. My Aerostar is guzzling the stuff. For whatever reason,
Valvoline's multigrades sold around here are just too bloody thin. I don't
know what they are using for brains.

> I'm particularly interested in how long you can go between
> changes.

In Kim's car I use Mobil-1 10w30 and rather than the 3,000 I take it to the
7,500 mark.

That's how I changed my oil in the Honda.

> This is where I really wonder about it.  I guess it doesn't break
> down so you can use it longer, but it keeps junk suspended that you want
to
...
but I think it's more the 'additives' that break down over
time rather than the base oil itself regardless of the type hence the
recommendation to stay inside the OEM interval.  (But above the time honored
3,000.)

Not so. At the time, I asked Mobil to send me technical literature, and they
sent me some research papers. Here's what gives: The oil's molecular chains
are very long. They do break down, just like natural oil. But because the
chains are much longer, they take much longer to break down to the point
where the oil is "worn out." I'd say 7,500 should be just fine, in general.

It also has a higher flash point, so resists burning up and temperature
damage (of the oil).

Of course, now that Exxon bought Mobil, who knows if the quality will remain
the same.

Richard


------------------------------

From: "Keith Christensen" <radiopro kendra.com>
Subject: Sparks BACK!!  (and parts-house thoughts as well as "spar
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 22:48:09 -0700

(Written last Friday, but wanted to think more on this before
posting. I was also maybe a little too frustrated as "vehicle death"
really puts me in a financial bind)


Phase two worked!
I replaced the ignition control module on the back-side of the
distributor.

<click--VROOM> !!   Yeahhaaa- no more worry about getting home!

Unfortunately, Seattle weather decided to be in "wet" mode tonite
about 10 minutes before I got off work to install it . I'm just now
getting dry jeans.

I'm not well-versed on late EIS stuff like the DuraSpark. This one
was a surprise ! Ford actually had a better idea here.  The actual
rotor sensor "device" itself rarely fails!  This setup puts all the
"support electronics" including the coil driver switching
transistors outside the distributor housing .  Those contacts aimed
"up" into the distributor itself  connect to the sensor device
(probably a hall-effect diode) . This *I Like* ---  but .....(see
below)

(Chuck-- your info was good!  "nitpicking"  on the "sensor" part .
This is the power switching module that drives the coil)

(Steve-- the grounding issue is valid, that was the first thing I
checked.  It passed. )

(Adam-- no guarantee that this *is* the same as your problem, but
this episode cost me less than $90 overall. $25 was for the coil,
$14 for a new Haynes book, $6 for the specal tool .  This was for a
"no questions/DEAD" failure..  intermittent problems cost far
more--!!  If you haven't replaced these in your "hunt", both the
coil and the ignition module are good candidates. Email me if you
need more ideas)

Again using "Unfortunately", the "under back of distributor"
location means that it's damned near impossible to replace it
without special tools.

The parts guy told me he wouldn't sell me the new TFI module unless
I had the sneaky little tool or I bought one (with a grin on his
face while he said this!).   I didn't have one, so I did buy it.
Damned glad I did!!

This was at Action Autoparts, a small local chain that has *real*  c
ounterhelp .

Find good places for parts... and keep them alive and in business!!
Here in the Seattle area, we have B&B, Action, "most" NAPA stores,
AutoSport NW, and others as general stuff;   SoftKy for
radiators/etc;  and more..

I'm not saying that the "bigname chains" are all bad, but there's no
guarantee that the person at the counter has any clue what parts do!


I bought the coil at a (spit) Shuck's (AKA Checker/Kragen in other
places) . Counterhelp there dropped the(first)  box and tried to
make me take it. NO WAY!

Reason I didn't post this last Friday was that I wanted to find the
stupid packaging (mfr and part#)  for same tool so that I could pass
on the info. Unfortunately "no luck" .

Description's the next best:
Sold as "Ford Ignition Module Tool";  has a 5/32" socket on one end
and a T20 Torx on the other. About 3" long, has 1/2" hex shaft area
for a wrench for "unseating" and final retighten, and a knurled
wheel to allow for fingerwork to spin the screws in and out. Mine
cost $6... worth every penny!!

(Tim and you other 'pro's .. I know there's other ways to do this,
but this answer doesn't require all the screwball tools we all
acquire over time. Wanna pack all those in the back of your B II
??).

I used my 4" "keychain "Chroisant"(<g>)  wrench to add the unseat
leverage, then spun the screws out with the knurl, reversed process
on reinstall. Total "braille"job, there's no way you can see this
with your hands in the way, as there's no space for much more than
your hands between the distributer body and the firewall.

A shorty 1/2 - 9/16 box wrench or 'box ratchet'would have worked as
well, and should be in anybody's "rig tools", but I'd loaned the box
to stepdaughter for an alternator replace!

Anyway.. it works!

As for the TFI module, late aftermarket ones are fairly reliable
compared to the OEM Ford part from what I've asked of local 'pro's
(after the fact). Most of the originals died before they reached 5
years or 100k miles.

If you haven't personally replaced  it , I'd advise buying one and
the tool and putting in your "rig tools" and spare parts onboard.
Just remember to protect the little pouch of silicone grease
somehow.





------------------------------

From: "Edward C. Miller" <millered pb.com>
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 09:37:56 -0400
Subject: Recalled tires - good news



I just received a check for $400 from Firestone for the recalled tires I
replaced.   I went to a Michelin dealer - got  four of the LTX M/S.   I brought
the 4 firestones to the firestone dealer who gave me paperwork to mail in and 1
month later I have my money.  Four new tires that cost me $60 but I feel much
safer now.   Just thought I'd let the newgroup know that you can get
reimbursement.



------------------------------

From: Bolte Brent <Brent.Bolte kone.com>
Subject: Re: [Synthetic Oil]
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 10:01:03 -0400

You are correct, it is the additives that "break down" in multi-weight oils.
In particular it is the viscosity improver additive.  Multi-weight oils
(such as 10W-30) start out life as the base weight oil (with 10W-30 it would
be 10 weight).  An additive called a viscosity improver is then added which,
at higher temperatures, makes the oil act like a higher viscosity oil.  In
this case it would only allow the oil to thin out as much as a 30 weight oil
would at the same high temperature.  When the viscosity improver "breaks
down" it loses its ability to keep the oil from thinning out as the
temperature goes up and you are more or less left with a 10 weight oil
running in the engine at all times.

The advantage a synthetic oil has, because its an "engineered" product, is
that it requires very little viscosity improver additive in the first place
so it doesn't have the "break down" problems of conventional oil.  The
synthesized molecules that are used in synthetic oil are "designed" to be
very stable over a wide temperature range.  Because of this, synthetic oil
doesn't thin out as much in high temperatures as a conventional oil nor does
it thicken as much in very cold temperatures.  That gives your engine better
protection in the hot summer weather and gives easier starts in cold winter
weather.  Both of my Explorers will crank over more easily at -10 degrees
with the synthetic oil in them than they used to at +10 with conventional
oil.

The second advantage synthetic oil has is that its volatility is very low.
Conventional oils will tend to "cook" when they hit very hot surfaces in
your engine.  This is what turns oil black and leaves deposits behind in
your engine. Since synthetic oils won't vaporize until they hit a much
higher temperature, they tend to stay cleaner longer (because they don't
create the mess in your engine to begin with). I'm sure you've all seen the
commercial with conventional and synthetic oils sitting in the frying pans,
the conventional oil turns in to a thick black lump while the synthetic oil
stays clear, that's basically what happens in your engine too.

As for recommended change intervals with synthetic oils, I wouldn't go
beyond the manufacturers recommended intervals especially if you are still
under warranty.  With the Explorer that would be 7500 miles.  I know the
synthetic oil manufacturers will tell you that you can run 10,000+ miles
with it.  Since synthetics don't tend to "break down", I would probably
trust the oil to still be good after that, but there are contaminates that
build up in the oil over time that need to get flushed out of the engine at
shorter intervals than that.  Personally I run Mobile 1 5W-30 and change it
at 5000 mile intervals.  Even by only going 2000 miles more on the synthetic
than I would with a conventional oil, that's 8 less oil changes I will make
after driving 60,000 miles.  Having changed the oil that many less times
during the first 60,000 miles more than recovers the extra cost of the
synthetic and you can only save more from then on.

After switching to synthetic years ago in both of my Explorers I immediately
noticed that the engines idled smoother, they seem to run more "freely"
while accelerating, and my mileage increased by about .5 MPG (and I keep
track of that very closely).  I would highly recommend anyone thinking about
switching to give them a try.

Thanks, Brent Bolte


On 2 Oct 00 22:17:05 EDT Tim Turner wrote

>> This is where I really wonder about it.  I guess it doesn't
>> break down so you can use it longer, but it keeps junk
>> suspended that you want to get rid of when you change the oil.

> Just my opinion, but I think it's more the 'additives' that
> break down over time rather than the base oil itself
> regardless of the type hence the recommendation to stay
> inside the OEM interval.  (But above the time honored 3,000.)

This message has been checked by KONE Corporation for the presence of computer viruses

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 10:47:49 -0400
From: David Cooley <n5xmt triad.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Synthetic Oil]

At 10:01 AM 10/03/2000, you wrote:

>As for recommended change intervals with synthetic oils, I wouldn't go
>beyond the manufacturers recommended intervals especially if you are still
>under warranty.  With the Explorer that would be 7500 miles.  I know the
>synthetic oil manufacturers will tell you that you can run 10,000+ miles
>with it.  Since synthetics don't tend to "break down", I would probably

Mobil has actually started recommending that their Mobil 1 synthetic be
changed at manufacturers recommended intervals... they no longer recommend
the extended change intervals.

===========================================================
David Cooley N5XMT Internet: N5XMT triad.rr.com
Packet: N5XMT KQ4LO.#INT.NC.USA.NA T.A.P.R. Member #7068
I am Pentium of Borg... Division is Futile!
===========================================================


------------------------------

From: "Hans Luckoff" <hluckoff azteca.net>
Subject: Re: [Synthetic Oil]
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 10:13:52 -0700

Brent,  Where does it say to change oil every 7500 miles, my Mountaineer
says 3000 or 5000 miles, except for the computer in the console witch  looks
like is set up for 7500 mile oil change.  Hans


----- Original Message -----
From: "Bolte Brent" <Brent.Bolte kone.com>
To: <small-list ford-trucks.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2000 7:01 AM
Subject: [small-list] Re: [Synthetic Oil]


the manufacturers recommended intervals especially if you are still
> under warranty.  With the Explorer that would be 7500 miles.  I know the
> synthetic oil manufacturers will tell you that you can run 10,000+ miles
> with it.  Since synthetics don't tend to "break down", I would probably
> trust the oil to still be good after that, but there are contaminates that
> build up in the oil over time that need to get flushed out of the engine
at
> shorter intervals than that.  Personally I run Mobile 1 5W-30 and change
it
> at 5000 mile intervals.  Even by only going 2000 miles more on the
synthetic
> than I would with a conventional oil, that's 8 less oil changes I will
make
> after driving 60,000 miles.  Having changed the oil that many less times
> during the first 60,000 miles more than recovers the extra cost of the
> synthetic and you can only save more from then on.
>


------------------------------

Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 13:21:04 -0400
From: David Cooley <n5xmt triad.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Synthetic Oil]

At 01:13 PM 10/03/2000, you wrote:
>Brent,  Where does it say to change oil every 7500 miles, my Mountaineer
>says 3000 or 5000 miles, except for the computer in the console witch  looks
>like is set up for 7500 mile oil change.  Hans


I reprogrammed my console oil monitor to reset to 50% life when I reset
it... seems to last right at 3000 miles for me.


===========================================================
David Cooley N5XMT Internet: N5XMT triad.rr.com
Packet: N5XMT KQ4LO.#INT.NC.USA.NA T.A.P.R. Member #7068
I am Pentium of Borg... Division is Futile!
===========================================================


------------------------------

Date:  3 Oct 00 20:51:22 EDT
From: Tim Turner <ManicMechanicNC netscape.net>
Subject: Re: [Sparks BACK!!  (and parts-house thoughts as well as

"Keith Christensen" <radiopro kendra.com> wrote:
> (Written last Friday, but wanted to think more on this before
> posting. I was also maybe a little too frustrated as "vehicle death"
> really puts me in a financial bind)

Amen on the bind.  Thanks for the restraint; I probably should do it more
often myself. ;-)

> I'm not well-versed on late EIS stuff like the DuraSpark. This one
> was a surprise ! Ford actually had a better idea here.  The actual
> rotor sensor "device" itself rarely fails!

Anymore... the original 84-86 sensor (PIP) failed early and often.  It was
black in color, redesigned to light brown to hold less heat and then again to
white.  Be glad yours was OK as the distributor shaft passes through it and
the gear on the shaft can be impossible to remove without breakage.

>
> This was at Action Autoparts, a small local chain that has *real*  c
> ounterhelp .
>
> Find good places for parts... and keep them alive and in business!!

You said a mouthful there!

> Here in the Seattle area, we have B&B, Action, "most" NAPA stores,
> AutoSport NW, and others as general stuff;   SoftKy for
> radiators/etc;  and more..
>
> I'm not saying that the "bigname chains" are all bad, but there's no
> guarantee that the person at the counter has any clue what parts do!

Or of the 'actual' quality of the part itself..  'lifetime' warranties are
nice and all but I'd prefer to NOT use that warranty every few months when a
higher priced unit gives no trouble for a longer period of time.  I'll buy
fluids & accessories from big stores, but avoid electrical and hard parts
unless it's a dire emergency and unavailable elsewhere.  (Like the cheap belt
I used on Kim's Capri that snapped a week later, but the NAPA one is still
fine a month later.)

> Reason I didn't post this last Friday was that I wanted to find the
> stupid packaging (mfr and part#)  for same tool so that I could pass
> on the info. Unfortunately "no luck" .

Several different variations of the tool, but just about any parts house will
have some type of "TFI Module tool".  :-)

>
> Description's the next best:
> Sold as "Ford Ignition Module Tool";  has a 5/32" socket on one end

5.5mm works well too.

> (Tim and you other 'pro's .. I know there's other ways to do this,

In all honesty my 'special' tool is nothing but an old Craftsman 1/4 drive
deepwell 5/32" socket that's been ground down on the bench grinder to make it
a 'thin-wall' socket.  V-8s require rotating the dizzy for access but... a
good generic fitz-all.  :-)

> but this answer doesn't require all the screwball tools we all
> acquire over time. Wanna pack all those in the back of your B II
> ??).

No; but people do carry spare axles, etc for 'serious' 'roading.  Me I'll
travel light but with phone and radio(s) unless I decide to try Moab or
something.

> As for the TFI module, late aftermarket ones are fairly reliable
> compared to the OEM Ford part from what I've asked of local 'pro's

Dependent on the brand, some are (were?) pretty much direct clones, others
re-engineered to address the problems.  I recall an article in a trade
magazine that took apart different brands, some were just plain shoddy.

> If you haven't personally replaced  it , I'd advise buying one and
> the tool and putting in your "rig tools" and spare parts onboard.

Or even if you have replaced it.  A good item to have on hand whether it's
TFI, Older Dura-spark, GM or Mopar.

> Just remember to protect the little pouch of silicone grease
> somehow.

I'd say buy a tube of it (Standard # SL-4 Dielectric Grease); it's useful for
making plug boots easier to remove, protecting bulb sockets etc. in addition
to heat transfer for electronics.  (Works well between the processor and fan
in PC work too! stabalized my 'overclocked' 166 before lightning got it.)

Tim

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Get your own FREE, personal Netscape WebMail account today at http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://home.netscape.com/webmail

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 20:01:38 -0500
From: Buck Shoff <hawk sktc.net>
Subject: Re: [Synthetic Oil]

Some years ago, I had a conversation with an engineer involved with
piston aircraft engines.  He said that the parts working against the oil
inside an engine had a shearing or tearing effect on the long stringy
oil molecule.  This tearing would shorten the individual molecules, thus
lowering the viscosity.  According to him, oil does "wear out".  We were
talking about conventional oil, not synthetic.  Buck Shoff

Bolte Brent wrote:
>
> You are correct, it is the additives that "break down" in multi-weight oils.

------------------------------

Date:  3 Oct 00 20:57:48 EDT
From: Tim Turner <ManicMechanicNC netscape.net>
Subject: Re: [Recalled tires - good news]

"Edward C. Miller" <millered pb.com> wrote:

> the 4 firestones to the firestone dealer who gave me paperwork to mail in
and 1
> month later I have my money.

Glad to know they're somewhat timely on the reimbursement checks; I'd been
wondering how long it would take.  I'd hate to see someone put $400 on a
credit card and have it hang for 3 months garnering interest.  :-)

Tim

____________________________________________________________________
Get your own FREE, personal Netscape WebMail account today at http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://home.netscape.com/webmail

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 20:09:27 -0500
From: Buck Shoff <hawk sktc.net>
Subject: Fog Lights

My 94 Ranger has the round factory fog lights under the front bumper.
Both lenses are broken.  Does anyone know of a place to get the lights
themselves. The Ford dealer priced the assembly at $150 to $190 each.  I
think it is the same light they put on some Fox Mustangs.  Thanks.
Buck Shoff

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 21:16:41 -0400
From: Kevin Crain <kevin warpten.com>
Subject: Re: [Synthetic Oil]

Just as a data point, I run Amsoil 5W-30 with magnetic drain plug and
FilterMag on the filter in my '99 Ranger with a 4500mi drain interval.  I
was sold on Amsoil when I disassembled an abused '88 GM 350 whose records
showed Amsoil 5W-30 changed at 3000mi for > 80K miles and the rod/main
bearings weren't showing any bronze at all.  Innards were clean as a
whistle, bearings not worn out...good enough for me.

Used to use Royal Purple in my other vehicle, but lack of actual data
pushed me to Amsoil there also.  Can't imagine why they'd leave out any
form of ASME or other standards-based data unless they didn't compare
favorably.

http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.royalpurple.com/
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.amsoil.com/

-Kevin

At 08:01 PM 10/3/00 -0500, you wrote:
>Some years ago, I had a conversation with an engineer involved with
>piston aircraft engines.  He said that the parts working against the oil
>inside an engine had a shearing or tearing effect on the long stringy
>oil molecule.  This tearing would shorten the individual molecules, thus
>lowering the viscosity.  According to him, oil does "wear out".  We were
>talking about conventional oil, not synthetic.  Buck Shoff
>
>Bolte Brent wrote:
>>
>> You are correct, it is the additives that "break down" in multi-weight
oils.
>=============================================================
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>Please remove this footer when replying.
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 18:57:04 -0700
From: Dan Wentz <dwentz earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [Synthetic Oil]

Thanks to everyone that put in their 2 cents about synthetic oil.  I can
see it's benefits but I don't think I'm willing to spend $4.50 a quart on
it.  I'll stick with the dinosaur stuff and 3000 miles.

~Dan

1950 F1 351C--The reluctant daily driver thanks to the MTA strike.
1998 Explorer--With tires made in NC.  Not recalled--yet...




------------------------------

From: "James Steele" <stryker60 hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Fog Lights
Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 22:01:32 CDT



>
>My 94 Ranger has the round factory fog lights under the front bumper.
>Both lenses are broken.  Does anyone know of a place to get the lights
>themselves. The Ford dealer priced the assembly at $150 to $190 each.  I
>think it is the same light they put on some Fox Mustangs.  Thanks.


IF it is the same as the Fox Mustang, try:    www.texasmustang.com

 Last time I looked, they list 87-93 Ford units for $ 49.95 each and repro
units for $ 32.95 each.  Lenses only, about $ 19.95 each.
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