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Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 09:46:48 -0400 (EDT)
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Subject: small-list Digest V2000 #136
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small-list Digest Thu, 24 Aug 2000 Volume: 2000  Issue: 136

In This Issue:
Swap Meet MD/VA/DC
Re: [Ranger Firestones]
No brakes...almost
2wd ranger firestones
Re: [Explorer tires - best way to get them replaced?]
Re: [Ranger Firestones]
Re: [Explorer tires - best way to get them
Re: [Ranger Firestones]
Firestones
Re: Ranger Firestones
Firestone Policy
Re: Firestone Hoopla
Tire replacement TV ad.
Re: Firestone Policy

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 10:31:19 -0400
From: Chris Hunt <Chris Peake.com>
Subject: Swap Meet MD/VA/DC

Off Camber Crawlers 4WD Club (OCC).

You and your club members and associations are invited to our 1st
annual Swap Meet. Hopefully, you have started collecting those parts
clogging your driveways, garages, sheds, foyers and basements. OCC will
hold
it's first Off Road Parts Swap Meet on Saturday, August 26th (that's
right this Saturday). It will start at 9 and end at 5 and is free to
anyone wishing to get rid of 4 wheelers, parts and accessories. It's being held
at one of our member's (Paul Krupe) office parking lot in Jessup, MD.
Here's the address:

Elite Spice
7151 Montevideo Rd
Jessup, MD  76028

It's located 1/2 mile north of Rt. 175 on Rt. 1.
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.mapquest.com/ is a good place to get directions with the
address above.

------------------------------

From: George Rigney <George.Rigney wsnelson.com>
Subject: Re: [Ranger Firestones]
Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 09:45:44 -0500

I've had nothing but good experiences with Goodyear tires, mostly Wranglers,
some Invictas.  Has anyone out there tried the Aquatreads?  I've always
wondered if the wet traction is as good as advertised.  It rains a lot where
I live (or at least it used to) and never snows, so I'm interested in how
they perform in rain and how they hold up to hot weather over the years.

While I'm at it, what about Pirellis?

Best regards,
George

1974 Gran Torino Elite 351W with what looks like the original tires ;)
1999 F250 SD CC V10 with Generals
2000 Ranger with Firestones, but not the size being recalled.

----------------------------------------------------------
Dave Cooley wrote:

I haven't had the best luck with Goodyears either...
Had really good luck with Cooper, BFG, and Michelin.


===========================================================
David Cooley N5XMT Internet: N5XMT triad.rr.com
Packet: N5XMT KQ4LO.#INT.NC.USA.NA T.A.P.R. Member #7068
I am Pentium of Borg... Division is Futile!
===========================================================




------------------------------

From: "Greg Hopper" <ghopper hiwaay.net>
Subject: No brakes...almost
Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 10:03:12 -0500


Yesterday afternoon my truck almost overheated (that's a whole other story about electric fans I don't even want to get into).  I made it to the school parking lot, and when I got out I could smell something burning and I actually spotted a little smoke coming out of the passenger side front fender (truck is a 94 Ranger).  When I came out of class, of course everything had cooled off, but my brakes had become WAY ineffective.  The pedal travels probably 3/4 of the way before anything happens now.  They do generate decent power if you push em all the way to the floor, but nothing like before.  The fluid looks a little low, but not more than a 1/2 inch below the MAX line.  I have yet to find anywhere in the front brake area that appears that fluid has leaked.  I also noticed that the coolant level in the tank is down a pretty good ways now.
Of course my first thought was that I had sprung a brake fluid leak somewhere and that was burning, but it doesnt appear thats correct.  Is it possible that I boiled the brake fluid in the heat (I had also done some pretty hard braking, I was driving as fast as possible in traffic to keep the air moving through it), and that perhaps the coolant had spilled over and that was what was burning (it is a little low now too)??  And now a lot of the gas that came out when the brake fluid boiled has made its way into the MC reservoir and thats why the fluid level has dropped only a little but the brakes are screwed?  Just two unrelated problems that appeared to be related??  It is the original brake fluid (I know it shouldve already been changed).

Please help me out guys... I really need to get this thing fixed today...
TIA
dave
ghopper hiwaay.net


------------------------------

From: Daniel_C_Johnson sbphrd.com
Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 11:38:59 -0400
Subject: 2wd ranger firestones

mike,
i wouldn't be too concerned with the 2wd wilderness AT's.
i have the 225's on my '98 and they have over 30,000miles on
them.  i'll admit, they aren't the best tire around, but they certainly
haven't shown signs of trying to separate (and that's with at least half of
those
miles from 65+mph highway driving).  besides, the tires involved
in the recall are under question in part due to the plant that made them
(from what i've read, the workers went on strike and firestone called
in scab workers to cover-what a great idea!)  anyway, if it's your peace
of mind that will be helped, i'd recommend buying Cooper tires.  and whatever
you do, keep them inflated properly!!!

dan





listar ford-trucks.com on 24-Aug-2000 09:21



------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 12:31:20 -0700
From: "Michael D. Sheridan" <marble psnw.com>
Subject: Ranger Firestones

My 1999 2WD Ranger has the same Firestone tires being
mentioned but they are the 225 Wilderness AT.

What about us guys? Are we going to be included
in this recall or just the 235s?

As a matter of fact I have never liked the tires
from the day I bought the truck new. They seem to me
to ride terrible and with the grooves being so
far apart they pick up every little pebble they
can find and I never drive off road. It's all I
can do with a small screwdriver to dig the pebbles
out of them before the service man has changed
the oil and filter and started to lower the rack.

Just a glance at the sidewalls would appear
to me that they are a second line or a blemished
tire as there are a few ridges and valleys here
and there.

I don't trust these tires so I almost never take
this truck on the highway.

I've got 16,000 miles on them now and if not recalled
and replaced at no charge I am going to dump them at
20,000 and get something I feel safe with.

Any comment would be helpful including the top of
line tire for this truck which is mostly driven
around town and never carries much of a load.

Michael








------------------------------

From: Bolte Brent <Brent.Bolte kone.com>
Subject: Re: [Explorer tires - best way to get them replaced?]
Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 11:44:57 -0400

I guess I now feel luck that my 1995 Explorer
came with Goodyear tires on it and when we purchased
our 1997 Explorer (which originally had Firestones
on it), I told the dealer I wanted Goodyear's on it
too so that both Explorers had the same tires on them,
so they switched them with another Explorer on the lot
that had the same rims and Goodyear tires.
Another option for getting recalled Firestone
tires replaced is to have the dealer (either Firestone
or Ford) replace them with a good light truck all season
tire instead of the all terrain tires which the ATX,
ATX II, and Wilderness AT are.  If you look at the
Firestone web page, they list the recalled tires as
"highway/off road" tires.  Since most Explorers (and
rangers for that matter) never go off road, a good light
truck all season tire (which are shown as "highway" tires)
may provide a smoother, quieter ride and will probably
give you the same traction in the normal winter snow
conditions that most people buy a 4X4 Explorer for
anyway.  When my 1995 Explorer gets done chewing up
this set of Goodyear RT/S tires (and it gets aligned
every 4-6 months) I am looking at switching to either
a set of Goodyear light truck all season tires or a
set of Michelin light truck all season tires and doing
away with the all terrain tires.  Just a thought.

Later, Brent Bolte

On 23 Aug 00 18:44:59 Tim Turner wrote:

"Edward C. Miller" <millered pb.com> wrote:
>
> I heard on the news that Ford has authorized dealers to replace the
defective
> Firestone tires.

More correctly the dealers that are also tire outlets.
.....
Cut
.....
> Does comparable with Firestone mean that they will fly apart also?

If overloaded and improperly inflated long enough yes.  ;-)

Tim




This message has been checked by KONE Corporation for the presence of computer viruses

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 11:48:58 -0400
From: David Cooley <n5xmt triad.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ranger Firestones]

At 10:45 AM 8/24/2000, you wrote:


>I've had nothing but good experiences with Goodyear tires, mostly Wranglers,
>some Invictas.  Has anyone out there tried the Aquatreads?  I've always
>wondered if the wet traction is as good as advertised.  It rains a lot where
>I live (or at least it used to) and never snows, so I'm interested in how
>they perform in rain and how they hold up to hot weather over the years.


I had aquatreads on a 95 dodge neon...  Wet and dry traction was good, but
even after repeated alignments, they wore funny... Guy at the goodyear
store I bought them at said they were having problems with the
vulcanization process at the factory... some of the rubber hardened
properly, some stayed softer than it should and caused the weird wear.  He
said most all their tire lines were affected.  I've avoided goodyear since
then... that was in late 96.



>While I'm at it, what about Pirellis?

I've had P3's and loved them... Can't justify their price though.

===========================================================
David Cooley N5XMT Internet: N5XMT triad.rr.com
Packet: N5XMT KQ4LO.#INT.NC.USA.NA T.A.P.R. Member #7068
I am Pentium of Borg... Division is Futile!
===========================================================


------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 11:56:38 -0400
From: David Cooley <n5xmt triad.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Explorer tires - best way to get them

At 11:44 AM 8/24/2000, you wrote:
>anyway.  When my 1995 Explorer gets done chewing up
>this set of Goodyear RT/S tires (and it gets aligned
>every 4-6 months) I am looking at switching to either
>a set of Goodyear light truck all season tires or a
>set of Michelin light truck all season tires and doing
>away with the all terrain tires.  Just a thought.

I put the Michelin LTX M/S tires on my 97 V8 explorer... What a day and
night difference over the spongy Wilderness AT's!
Handles MUCH better, Ride is better, and the tires are quiet... They don't
"sing" going down the highway!

===========================================================
David Cooley N5XMT Internet: N5XMT triad.rr.com
Packet: N5XMT KQ4LO.#INT.NC.USA.NA T.A.P.R. Member #7068
I am Pentium of Borg... Division is Futile!
===========================================================


------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 10:25:56 -0700
From: Jon and Jody <psycho direct.ca>
Subject: Re: [Ranger Firestones]




>  It rains a lot where
> I live (or at least it used to) and never snows, so I'm interested in how
> they perform in rain and how they hold up to hot weather over the years.

Rains a lot....  Hmm, sounds like where I live (west coast of Canada)...

> While I'm at it, what about Pirellis?

I've found Pirelli's to be very good, with one proviso:Once you get them
mounted, leave them mounted.  For some reason, when swapping them from one rim
to another, they are prone to twisting belts.  As long as they are on the FIRST
set of rims, they are pretty good.

Blue coyote


------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 17:53:16 -0700
From: scott <scott ford-trucks.com>
Subject: Firestones

My 85 year old father has had two blowouts in his entire life.One was a
Firestone on his brand new 65 F-250.The other was the infamous Firestone
500
on his 77 LTD.
I have had only one blowout in my 42 years.It was ATX on my 91
Explorer.
Sums up my opinion of Firestones.............

------------------------------

From: "Jim Bielecki" <bieleckj freeway.net>
Subject: Re: Ranger Firestones
Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 20:57:08 -0400

> 1) Roughly 12 Million 235s were made and 7 Million are expected to be
involved
> with the other 5 Million having been taken out of service (worn out or
> otherwise discarded).  Last I heard there were some 4-500 reported
incidents;
> let's say under 1/2 of all incidents were reported and call it 1200 for
> 1200/12,000,00 or .01 percent chance that any given 235 will fail or .04
> percent that one on a given vehicle will.  Those kinds of odds cause
people to
> jump out of perfectly good aircraft willingly.  ;-)
> Tim

An excellent response.  Why I don't mean to make light of this situation,
I'm also amused at the mainstream press which is doing its absolute best at
whipping the public into an almost uncontrolled paranoid frenzy.  I also
suspect that the anti-SUV crowd is having a field day and is watching with
glee as the American public flees Explorers to the safety of Honda Accords.

BTW, my '93 Explorer with the dreaded factory-original ATX's has just topped
112,000 miles.

Jim Bielecki



------------------------------

Date: 24 Aug 00 21:34:43 EDT
From: Tim Turner <ManicMechanicNC netscape.net>
Subject: Firestone Policy


 Unfortunately  I forgot to bring home the last Firestone letter we recieved
at the shop to quote from, hopefully tomorrow.  The main point for today was a
compensation policy instituted by Firestone for outside buying.

 Go to the tire shop of your choice, get the tire of your choice, take the
dismounted recall tires to Firestone along with the reciept for the new ones.
You now get to fill out a form and wait for a check from Firestone for the
expense incurred up to $100/tire.  Of course this only applies to those that
have the cash on hand to do it and don't mind waiting for the check, but it's
good to know...  PLEASE verify this with your own tire dealer first though!

 One other point; as a 'goodwill measure' they will now accept tires of less
than 2/32" remaining tread.

 More news tomorrow I hope.

Tim

____________________________________________________________________
Get your own FREE, personal Netscape WebMail account today at http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://home.netscape.com/webmail

------------------------------

Date: 24 Aug 00 22:35:01 EDT
From: Tim Turner <ManicMechanicNC netscape.net>
Subject: Re: Firestone Hoopla

"Jim Bielecki" <bieleckj freeway.net> wrote:
>
> An excellent response.  Why I don't mean to make light of this situation,

Certainly not my intent either!  The odds are good, but if it happens to you
it becomes personal and odds be damned.

> I'm also amused at the mainstream press which is doing its absolute best at
> whipping the public into an almost uncontrolled paranoid frenzy.

Amen.  Can't go more than 5 hours without hearing about 'Surivor' or
'Firestone' somewhere.  Tread seperation happens with any tire and I've seen
it plenty of times with no particular brand standing out in my mind.  One
thing to remember is that there's a statistical bump higher among the recalled
tires than the norm.  Meaning:  other sizes/brands do this too but these 3
tires in 235 do it more than the norm but still at a very low rate.

> also
> suspect that the anti-SUV crowd is having a field day and is watching with
> glee as the American public flees Explorers to the safety of Honda Accords.

Does that mean SUV prices will come down from the stratosphere?  At least this
shifts some attention away from the size issues etc.  OTOH it brings up the
center of gravity thing but that (should) be something you accept in buying
one.  For handling buy a Mustang, for ride/comfort buy a Crown Vic.. for
passenger capacity get a E-series or Windstar; if you truly go off-road or
have weather concerns then start looking at SUVs or 4x4 or AWD options on the
E/Windstar depending on your needs.  Balance your needs against the available
vehicles and decide accordingly.  The SUV craze displaced the mini-van craze,
I have to wonder what the next one will be and when.  (2 seater convertibles
with 3 cylinder 2-stoke engines?) <BG>

Tim




____________________________________________________________________
Get your own FREE, personal Netscape WebMail account today at http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://home.netscape.com/webmail

------------------------------

From: "Harry Trafford" <traff gnv.ifas.ufl.edu>
Subject: Tire replacement TV ad.
Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 01:04:52 -0400

I've seen a TV ad from Ford, lately, but tonight I actually listened to it.

Harry
//////////////////////////

Jacques Nassar, from Ford, says (paraphrased):
'Ford has identified 30 different brands of tires for use as replacements.
They have 'Expanded outlets to get you your tires.'
For more information, call 1-800-660-4719 .


------------------------------

From: "Bobby Herring" <bdherring earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Firestone Policy
Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 09:43:56 -0500

Anything about tires that were replaced and the old ones are long gone? I
had 4 Wilderness AT's on my 97 Explorer and had to replace two of them
because of humps caused by separation. they would bump like they were out of
round or something. I still had two left and replaced them the other day. I
kept the old ones this time.
The ones I have do not have the VD letter code meaning they were not
manufactured at the Decatur plant. The separation I had on the two I
replaced happened with about half the tread left.
I haven't called any store, yet. I was waiting to see if they were forced to
expand the recall to other tires, first.
bob

-----Original Message-----
From: small-list-bounce ford-trucks.com
[mailto:small-list-bounce ford-trucks.com]On Behalf Of Tim Turner
Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2000 8:35 PM
To: small-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: [small-list] Firestone Policy

 Unfortunately  I forgot to bring home the last Firestone letter we
recieved
at the shop to quote from, hopefully tomorrow.  The main point for today was
a
compensation policy instituted by Firestone for outside buying.

 Go to the tire shop of your choice, get the tire of your choice, take the
dismounted recall tires to Firestone along with the reciept for the new
ones.
You now get to fill out a form and wait for a check from Firestone for the
expense incurred up to $100/tire.  Of course this only applies to those that
have the cash on hand to do it and don't mind waiting for the check, but
it's
good to know...  PLEASE verify this with your own tire dealer first though!

 One other point; as a 'goodwill measure' they will now accept tires of ....


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