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Subject: small-list-digest V3 #314
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small-list-digest Wednesday, December 1 1999 Volume 03 : Number 314



=======================================================================
Ford Truck Enthusiasts - Ranger, Explorer, Bronco 2 and Aerostar
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In this issue:

Re: FTE Small - creaking and moaning
Re: FTE Small - creaking and moaning
Re: FTE Small - creaking and moaning
FTE Small - Bucket Seat Frame
RE: FTE Small - creaking and moaning
RE: FTE Small - Bucket Seat Frame
FTE Small - Shock absorber question.
RE: FTE Small - Shock absorber question.
Re: FTE Small - Shock absorber question.
Re: FTE Small - creaking and moaning
Re: FTE Small - creaking and moaning
Re: AW: AW: FTE Small - Re: Scanners
Re: FTE Small - Timing Chain
Re: FTE Small - Timing Chain
FTE Small - ignition wires
Re: FTE Small - ignition wires
Re: FTE Small - creaking and moaning

=======================================================================

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 09:08:05 -0600
From: alannorthstar mindspring.com
Subject: Re: FTE Small - creaking and moaning

On Mon, 29 Nov 1999 21:35:54 -0500, you wrote:

:At 08:06 PM 11/29/99 -0600, you wrote:
:>I was told that the Explorer/Ranger frame was very flexible, while the=20
:>body was relatively rigid. Possibly the body-to-frame mounts are =
loose,=20
:>or the rubber isolators are worn?
:>
:Actually the opposite.
:The frame is pretty tough and inflexible while the body will flex. =
Check=20
:the body to frame mounts (Big rubber insulators underneath) as they can=20
:wear and allow the body to move on the frame more than it should.
Hmmm.
So, if the frame is so inflexible, what's causing anything to shift
and/or rub?

I have a Ranger that is 1-1/2 years old, and it does that, too. I
surmise that the frame isn't really that inflexible, or it would keep
everything from moving and creaking and groaning!

Later,
Alan
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 10:20:09 -0500
From: David Cooley
Subject: Re: FTE Small - creaking and moaning

At 09:08 AM 11/30/1999 -0600, you wrote:
>On Mon, 29 Nov 1999 21:35:54 -0500, you wrote:
>
>:At 08:06 PM 11/29/99 -0600, you wrote:
>:>I was told that the Explorer/Ranger frame was very flexible, while the
>:>body was relatively rigid. Possibly the body-to-frame mounts are loose,
>:>or the rubber isolators are worn?
>:>
>:Actually the opposite.
>:The frame is pretty tough and inflexible while the body will flex. Check
>:the body to frame mounts (Big rubber insulators underneath) as they can
>:wear and allow the body to move on the frame more than it should.



>Hmmm.
>So, if the frame is so inflexible, what's causing anything to shift
>and/or rub?
>
>I have a Ranger that is 1-1/2 years old, and it does that, too. I
>surmise that the frame isn't really that inflexible, or it would keep
>everything from moving and creaking and groaning!


The body is mounted to the frame with LONG bolts and rubber donuts. The
body can move around on a frame quite a bit. Ever tried to bend or flex a
piece of 1/4" wall 5" x 3" heat treated steel tubing?
That's your frame!


===========================================================
David Cooley N5XMT Internet: N5XMT bellsouth.net
Packet: N5XMT KQ4LO.#INT.NC.USA.NA T.A.P.R. Member #7068
We are Borg... Prepare to be assimilated!
===========================================================

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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 10:31:01 -0500
From: Stephen.P.Donaldson jci.com
Subject: Re: FTE Small - creaking and moaning

Try this,

While driving put the tip of your finger between the door frame and the
roof (be careful, you might get pinched) you will notice the body flex
quite a bit with the road. I have noticed deflection af at least 1/4 inch
driving on regular roads. Also, you can grab either fender and shake the
vehicle and notice that the body and engine will move separatly from the
frame. This indicated to me that the frame was very ridged and the body did
most of the flexing. the engine moved just 'cause of the "cushy motor
mounts" ford uses.

Just a thought.....

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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 10:41:12 -0500
From: "DuPont, Patrick"
Subject: FTE Small - Bucket Seat Frame

Hello,

I'm in need of a drivers seat frame for my '87 BRONCO II. Does anyone near
the Philadelphia area have a BII for spare parts that I could purchase the
drivers bucket seat from?? Is this something that can be purchased online
through some of those catalog companies?

Patrick Dupont
Philadelphia, PA

'87 FORD Bronco II (http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.geocities.com/patrickdupont_19036)
'88 FORD Taurus
'96 FORD Windstar

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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 07:45:04 -0800
From: Ray Scheidnes
Subject: RE: FTE Small - creaking and moaning

This is a good test and leads me to another related question: why did Ford
use a material to make the outter weather stripping that would remove the
paint from the top edge of my doors? It is because of this body flexing
during driving that causes the tops of the doors to rub against the
stripping. I noticed on my buddy's 96 Explorer that Ford went to a soft
rubber stripping that flexes with the movements of the body against the
doors. Anybody have any suggestions? I've lubed the weather stripping with
silicone gel, and that at least silenced the squeeks...

> ----------
> From:
> Stephen.P.Donaldson jci.com[SMTP:Stephen.P.Donaldson jci.com]
> Reply To: small-list ford-trucks.com
> Sent: Tuesday, November 30, 1999 7:31 AM
> To: small-list ford-trucks.com
> Subject: Re: FTE Small - creaking and moaning
>
>
> Try this,
>
> While driving put the tip of your finger between the door frame and the
> roof (be careful, you might get pinched) you will notice the body flex
> quite a bit with the road. I have noticed deflection af at least 1/4 inch
> driving on regular roads. Also, you can grab either fender and shake the
> vehicle and notice that the body and engine will move separatly from the
> frame. This indicated to me that the frame was very ridged and the body
> did
> most of the flexing. the engine moved just 'cause of the "cushy motor
> mounts" ford uses.
>
> Just a thought.....
>
> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
>
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 07:48:29 -0800
From: Ray Scheidnes
Subject: RE: FTE Small - Bucket Seat Frame

Check James Duff Enterprises - they are supposed to have tons of Bronco
stuff.

> ----------
> From: DuPont, Patrick[SMTP:PatrickDupont chi-east.org]
> Reply To: small-list ford-trucks.com
> Sent: Tuesday, November 30, 1999 7:41 AM
> To: 'small-list ford-trucks.com'
> Subject: FTE Small - Bucket Seat Frame
>
> Hello,
>
> I'm in need of a drivers seat frame for my '87 BRONCO II. Does anyone
> near
> the Philadelphia area have a BII for spare parts that I could purchase the
> drivers bucket seat from?? Is this something that can be purchased online
> through some of those catalog companies?
>
> Patrick Dupont
> Philadelphia, PA
>
> '87 FORD Bronco II (http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.geocities.com/patrickdupont_19036)
> '88 FORD Taurus
> '96 FORD Windstar
>
> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
>
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 12:25:20 -0500
From: "Edward C. Miller"
Subject: FTE Small - Shock absorber question.

How can you tell if a shock on a 98 Explorer is bad. I've been hearing
clunking sounds when I go over semi-rough surfaces that I don't think were there
when the car was new. I've only got 5k miles left on the warrenty. The dealer
took it for a test ride and says nothing is wrong. Thanks in advance for any
help.


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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 09:35:58 -0800
From: Ray Scheidnes
Subject: RE: FTE Small - Shock absorber question.

If there appears to be any fluid running down the shock itself, then there's
a leak (bad). Factory shocks are very cheap (except for some manufacturers
who have been installing name brands like Bilstein) typically.
Check everything else as well: lug nuts tight, etc.

> ----------
> From: Edward C. Miller[SMTP:millered pb.com]
> Reply To: small-list ford-trucks.com
> Sent: Tuesday, November 30, 1999 9:25 AM
> To: small-list ford-trucks.com
> Subject: FTE Small - Shock absorber question.
>
>
>
> How can you tell if a shock on a 98 Explorer is bad. I've been hearing
> clunking sounds when I go over semi-rough surfaces that I don't think were
> there
> when the car was new. I've only got 5k miles left on the warrenty. The
> dealer
> took it for a test ride and says nothing is wrong. Thanks in advance for
> any
> help.
>
>
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>
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 12:40:43 -0500
From: Stephen.P.Donaldson jci.com
Subject: Re: FTE Small - Shock absorber question.

The bolt that secures the shock to the frame may be loose. Have you checked
it?

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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 18:56:15 CST
From: "James Steele"
Subject: Re: FTE Small - creaking and moaning

Try this:
Take an Explorer and a Ranger, parked side by side.
Place a jack under the right rear of each vehicle.
Raise each vehicle until the right FRONT wheel leaves the ground.
Measure the height of the right corner of the rear bumper of each
vehicle.
The vehicle with the lower height to the rear bumper exhibits less total
deflection or bend.
Since the frames should be the same, the difference should be due to the
difference in the rigidity of the body.
I'll be willing to bet that the Explorer, with a full-length, one-piece
body, will exhibit less bend, even though it weighs far more.


>From: David Cooley
>Reply-To: small-list ford-trucks.com
>To: small-list ford-trucks.com
>Subject: Re: FTE Small - creaking and moaning
>Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 10:20:09 -0500
>
>At 09:08 AM 11/30/1999 -0600, you wrote:
>>On Mon, 29 Nov 1999 21:35:54 -0500, you wrote:
>>
>>:At 08:06 PM 11/29/99 -0600, you wrote:
>>:>I was told that the Explorer/Ranger frame was very flexible, while the
>>:>body was relatively rigid. Possibly the body-to-frame mounts are loose,
>>:>or the rubber isolators are worn?
>>:>
>>:Actually the opposite.
>>:The frame is pretty tough and inflexible while the body will flex. Check
>>:the body to frame mounts (Big rubber insulators underneath) as they can
>>:wear and allow the body to move on the frame more than it should.
>
>
>
>>Hmmm.
>>So, if the frame is so inflexible, what's causing anything to shift
>>and/or rub?
>>
>>I have a Ranger that is 1-1/2 years old, and it does that, too. I
>>surmise that the frame isn't really that inflexible, or it would keep
>>everything from moving and creaking and groaning!
>
>
>The body is mounted to the frame with LONG bolts and rubber donuts. The
>body can move around on a frame quite a bit. Ever tried to bend or flex a
>piece of 1/4" wall 5" x 3" heat treated steel tubing?
>That's your frame!
>
>
>===========================================================
>David Cooley N5XMT Internet: N5XMT bellsouth.net
>Packet: N5XMT KQ4LO.#INT.NC.USA.NA T.A.P.R. Member #7068
>We are Borg... Prepare to be assimilated!
>===========================================================
>
>== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

______________________________________________________
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 19:09:05 CST
From: "James Steele"
Subject: Re: FTE Small - creaking and moaning

If you will watch a few full-size pickup trucks entering driveways at an
angle, you'll quickly see that frames a lot bigger than 1/4" 5x3 tubing will
bend and flex quite a bit!!!


>From: David Cooley
>Reply-To: small-list ford-trucks.com
>To: small-list ford-trucks.com
>Subject: Re: FTE Small - creaking and moaning
>Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 10:20:09 -0500
>
>At 09:08 AM 11/30/1999 -0600, you wrote:
>>On Mon, 29 Nov 1999 21:35:54 -0500, you wrote:
>>
>>:At 08:06 PM 11/29/99 -0600, you wrote:
>>:>I was told that the Explorer/Ranger frame was very flexible, while the
>>:>body was relatively rigid. Possibly the body-to-frame mounts are loose,
>>:>or the rubber isolators are worn?
>>:>
>>:Actually the opposite.
>>:The frame is pretty tough and inflexible while the body will flex. Check
>>:the body to frame mounts (Big rubber insulators underneath) as they can
>>:wear and allow the body to move on the frame more than it should.
>
>
>
>>Hmmm.
>>So, if the frame is so inflexible, what's causing anything to shift
>>and/or rub?
>>
>>I have a Ranger that is 1-1/2 years old, and it does that, too. I
>>surmise that the frame isn't really that inflexible, or it would keep
>>everything from moving and creaking and groaning!
>
>
>The body is mounted to the frame with LONG bolts and rubber donuts. The
>body can move around on a frame quite a bit. Ever tried to bend or flex a
>piece of 1/4" wall 5" x 3" heat treated steel tubing?
>That's your frame!
>
>
>===========================================================
>David Cooley N5XMT Internet: N5XMT bellsouth.net
>Packet: N5XMT KQ4LO.#INT.NC.USA.NA T.A.P.R. Member #7068
>We are Borg... Prepare to be assimilated!
>===========================================================
>
>== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

______________________________________________________
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 19:50:38 -0500
From: Dave Slotter
Subject: Re: AW: AW: FTE Small - Re: Scanners

At 10:08 AM +0100 11/25/99, ThomasUcen premiereworld.de wrote:
>How do you do that? Connect the two pins and then START the engine instead
>of just turning on the ignition?

That's correct. There is also a point where you see a single flash of
light - this is the computer's request for you to goose the throttle.
At this time it is checking several things, including, but not
limited to the knock sensor, throttle position sensor and exhaust gas
oxygen sensor.

>>You read the KOEO (engine off) and KOER (engine running) codes
>>exactly the same way.

- -Dave
- --

ICQ# 16458879 AOL/AIM ID: "Mac XR"
1986 Ford Bronco II Gray Manual 2.9 V6 125K Pittsburgh PA

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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 19:52:04 -0500
From: Dave Slotter
Subject: Re: FTE Small - Timing Chain

At 11:32 AM -0500 11/28/99, David Cooley wrote:
>At 11:24 AM 11/28/99 -0500, you wrote:
>
>>I'm not sure, but there may be a special tool to get the old module off the
>>distributor.
>>Should be available at the parts store....
>
>
>A special screwdriver that looks like an end wrench and the ends are
>angled to get the bits in to the module.
>
>>Also not sure of the clearances around the dist on the 2.9, you may have to
>>remove it to get the module off.
>>On my 2.8 the dist is on the back of the engine (the only ford I've seen
>>like this) and there is no room to work on it. Infact, the cap & rotor
>>replacement is a tough job because the cap and rotor go on with screws and
>>you need a stubby screwdriver and lots of colorful language to do it.
>>I'm just glad the TFI on my 91 F-250 is on the fender.....
>
>Because of heat related failures, Ford has a TFI relocation kit...
>Moves the module out of the distributor and onto the firewall or
>fender.

The TFI module utilizes something called a "Hall Effect Sensor" which
measures changes in magnetic fields. If memory serves, the TFI module
measures the rate of spin of the rotor inside the distributor. Since
magnetic fields are relatively weak, I don't understand how one could
just relocate just the TFI. Are you sure it's not relocating the
entire distributor? (That sounds like a task in itself.)

- -Dave
- --

ICQ# 16458879 AOL/AIM ID: "Mac XR"
1986 Ford Bronco II Gray Manual 2.9 V6 125K Pittsburgh PA

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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 22:47:04 -0500
From: David Cooley
Subject: Re: FTE Small - Timing Chain

At 07:52 PM 11/30/99 -0500, you wrote:

>The TFI module utilizes something called a "Hall Effect Sensor" which
>measures changes in magnetic fields. If memory serves, the TFI module
>measures the rate of spin of the rotor inside the distributor. Since
>magnetic fields are relatively weak, I don't understand how one could just
>relocate just the TFI. Are you sure it's not relocating the entire
>distributor? (That sounds like a task in itself.)


The relocation kit is for a unit with a seperate module and a seperate
sensor pickup.
I assumed all the ford modules used a seperate sensor pickup in the
distributor and not one built into the module.

===========================================================
David Cooley N5XMT Internet: N5XMT bellsouth.net
Packet: N5XMT KQ4LO.#INT.NC.USA.NA T.A.P.R. Member #7068
We are Borg... Prepare to be assimilated!
===========================================================

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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 21:01:16 -0800
From: Richard Salitra
Subject: FTE Small - ignition wires

I just bought Jacobs ignition wires for when I change my plugs & wires
in a few weeks. I bought the wires directly from Jacobs & the
salesperson said the wires have a lifetime warranty. I've always been
of the opinion that wires should always be changed with plugs every 2
years (about 30k miles for me). But this salesman says that I shouldn't
need to buy another set of wires & since they have a lifetime warranty
that jacobs will replace any that go bad anyway. Is he correct in that
the performance of the wires will not degrade over time? btw, I went
with Autolite double platinums for the plugs rather than the splitfires
or the bosch +4. thanks for any feedback on this.

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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 01 Dec 1999 00:28:50 -0500
From: David Cooley
Subject: Re: FTE Small - ignition wires

At 09:01 PM 11/30/99 -0800, you wrote:
>I just bought Jacobs ignition wires for when I change my plugs & wires
>in a few weeks. I bought the wires directly from Jacobs & the
>salesperson said the wires have a lifetime warranty. I've always been
>of the opinion that wires should always be changed with plugs every 2
>years (about 30k miles for me). But this salesman says that I shouldn't
>need to buy another set of wires & since they have a lifetime warranty
>that jacobs will replace any that go bad anyway. Is he correct in that
>the performance of the wires will not degrade over time? btw, I went
>with Autolite double platinums for the plugs rather than the splitfires
>or the bosch +4. thanks for any feedback on this.


The experience of quite a few people on several other lists is Jacobs are
average wires and they do go bad about as often as factory wires. Best for
longevity and quality were Magnecor

===========================================================
David Cooley N5XMT Internet: N5XMT bellsouth.net
Packet: N5XMT KQ4LO.#INT.NC.USA.NA T.A.P.R. Member #7068
We are Borg... Prepare to be assimilated!
===========================================================

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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 22:13:46 -0800
From: "Tom Ewing"
Subject: Re: FTE Small - creaking and moaning

Ray. You mentioned that you once had some type of Rancho "traction bars"
mounted from your frame to the rear axle housing near the shock mounts? Do
you know if these are still available. I haven't seen a Rancho catalog for
awhile I guess, but I don't remember seeing such an item being offered
anywhere else. I've got a 92 2.3L Ranger that I use at the drags pretty
regularly and I get a pretty good amount of wheel hop at launch, but the....


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