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Subject: small-list-digest V3 #234
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small-list-digest Saturday, September 11 1999 Volume 03 : Number 234



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Ford Truck Enthusiasts - Ranger, Explorer, Bronco 2 and Aerostar
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In this issue:

FTE Small - Re: 2WD Does Not Suck
Re: FTE Small - Help, No 4wheel drive!!
RE: FTE Small - Re: 2WD Does Not Suck
RE: FTE Small - Re: 2WD Does Not Suck
RE: FTE Small - Re: 2WD Does Not Suck
Re: FTE Small - 2 WD does not suck...
RE: FTE Small - To Lock or to Anti-lock
Re: FTE Small - Re: 2WD Does Not Suck
RE: FTE Small - To Lock or to Anti-lock
RE: FTE Small - Re: 2WD Does Not Suck
Re: FTE Small - 2 WD does not suck...
Re: FTE Small - Re: 2WD Does Not Suck
FTE Small - help!!
Re: FTE Small - Re: 2WD Does Not Suck

=======================================================================

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 07:43:23 -0400
From: "Jim Bielecki"
Subject: FTE Small - Re: 2WD Does Not Suck

> Well put Dude, the only advantage to 4WD is that it allows you to get
stuck
> in more inaccessible places.
>
> >From a very satisfied owner of a 99 Ranger XLT 2WD. (Regular cab)

You don't live in the snowbelt where just driving to work in the morning, in
the winter, can be an ordeal. Without 4WD you just don't go.

Jim Bielecki


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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 05:28:19 +0000
From: Ken Justice
Subject: Re: FTE Small - Help, No 4wheel drive!!

Hello,

On the subject of 2 wheel drive sucks, I remember a bumper sticker on a
4 wheeler I saw stuck in a real bad situation in a remote area. It said:
" 4 Wheelers get stuck further and deeper!"

Maybe that guy was just seeing if it was true?

Regards,

Ken Justice
Discover the Working Mat!
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.workingmat.com
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 07:18:01 -0600
From: "Ryan Penner"
Subject: RE: FTE Small - Re: 2WD Does Not Suck

I agree, I myself used to own a 2wd truck and in the winter I just thought
it was so weird that others had to use 4wd. Now I own a 4wd truck and I
will never own a 2wd truck in the winter again. The reasons are, when you
see an opening when your in 2wd you better get your tires spinning so you
start moving by the time that opening gets to you, and control is not
something you have much of in a 2wd truck. But those are my thoughts and
opinions on that subject. Now if I didn't live in an area that had snow I
would probably agree with the original poster, but because I do I can't. :)

Ryan

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-small-list ford-trucks.com
> [mailto:owner-small-list ford-trucks.com]On Behalf Of Jim Bielecki
> Sent: Friday, September 10, 1999 5:43 AM
> To: small-list ford-trucks.com
> Subject: FTE Small - Re: 2WD Does Not Suck
>
>
>
> > Well put Dude, the only advantage to 4WD is that it allows you to get
> stuck
> > in more inaccessible places.
> >
> > >From a very satisfied owner of a 99 Ranger XLT 2WD. (Regular cab)
>
> You don't live in the snowbelt where just driving to work in the
> morning, in
> the winter, can be an ordeal. Without 4WD you just don't go.
>
> Jim Bielecki
>
>
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>

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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 09:34:55 -0400
From: David Cooley
Subject: RE: FTE Small - Re: 2WD Does Not Suck

At 07:18 AM 9/10/1999 -0600, you wrote:
>I agree, I myself used to own a 2wd truck and in the winter I just thought
>it was so weird that others had to use 4wd. Now I own a 4wd truck and I
>will never own a 2wd truck in the winter again. The reasons are, when you
>see an opening when your in 2wd you better get your tires spinning so you
>start moving by the time that opening gets to you, and control is not
>something you have much of in a 2wd truck. But those are my thoughts and
>opinions on that subject. Now if I didn't live in an area that had snow I
>would probably agree with the original poster, but because I do I can't. :)

One thing to keep in mind about 4WD during the winter is it does NOT give
you more traction on ice.
In fact, 4WD on ice is actually more dangerous than 2wd, because if the
wheels start to slide from too much power applied, or your foot comes off
the gas and engine braking makes the tires start slipping, you've totally
lost all control... With 2wd, overpowering and underpowering on ice will
break theback end loose, but the fronts will still be there to allow
steering unless you hit the brakes.
===========================================================
David Cooley N5XMT Internet: N5XMT bellsouth.net
Packet: N5XMT KQ4LO.#INT.NC.USA.NA T.A.P.R. Member #7068
We are Borg... Prepare to be assimilated!
===========================================================

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Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 09:07:15 -0500
From: "Strukel, Mike"
Subject: RE: FTE Small - Re: 2WD Does Not Suck

- -----Original Message-----

One thing to keep in mind about 4WD during the winter is it does NOT give
you more traction on ice.
In fact, 4WD on ice is actually more dangerous than 2wd, because if the
wheels start to slide from too much power applied, or your foot comes off
the gas and engine braking makes the tires start slipping, you've totally
lost all control... With 2wd, overpowering and underpowering on ice will
break theback end loose, but the fronts will still be there to allow
steering unless you hit the brakes.
===========================================================
David Cooley N5XMT Internet: N5XMT bellsouth.net
Packet: N5XMT KQ4LO.#INT.NC.USA.NA T.A.P.R. Member #7068
We are Borg... Prepare to be assimilated!
===========================================================

I have to disagree with that train of thought, or at least partially. 4
wheel drive does not help you stop on ice, but DOES give you added
traction on ice. I live in northern MN, and we spend 5 - 6 months of the
year driving on Snow/ice. I have owned numerous 2 and 4 wheel drive trucks
over the last 15 years. 4x4 gives you a very large advantage on snow and
ice PERIOD.
Where most people get into trouble with 4x4s is the fact that they think
that they can run 60mph down an ice cover road because they have 4 wheel
drive. Definately not true.

If I lived in a climate that was not prone to snow/ice, there would
definately not be a good reason to spend the extra money on 4 wheel
drive(barring off road use). A 2 wheel drive would probably be fine.

Usually the 2 wheel/4 wheel debate comes down to 3 reasons.
1. Cost - A general statement (and I am saying GENERAL) is that the people
in my area who buy
2 wheel drive trucks can't justify the added expense or can't
afford the added expense

2. Use - Some people like the "sport truck" such as the Lightning. Those
trucks are definately
oriented tward 2 wheel drive.

3. Never owned one - Quite a number of people who have never owned 4x4s
say that there is no
need for one. Usually there people change thier mind
when they buy a 4x4.
I did!

Another thing to consider, depending on your location, is resale. Here in
MN, 2 wheel drive trucks have poor resale. I guess that could be an
advantage if you are a buyer, but a disadvantage as a seller.

Again, I am not saying one is better than another, but rather just bringing
up a few points.

Mike Strukel
99 F250SD 4x4 v10, superchip, 2"superlift, 35x12.50 BFG Mud Terrains
98 Explorer
68 bronco





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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 07:25:47 -0700
From: "Robert Eberhardt"
Subject: Re: FTE Small - 2 WD does not suck...

That's only if you get stuck. Usually it will prevent you from getting stuck
in places that will get a 2WD stuck.

Been there a few times with an '82 2WD Toyota, an '86 2WD Ranger and a '94
2WD Ranger. I have had all of them stuck a time or two, usually in soft
sand. They were also subject to a lot of abuse getting them up abandoned
mining roads that I can take a 4WD up with little effort. My current '97 4WD
Explorer goes many more places than any of my 2WDs could go. It hasn't been
stuck yet. Admittedly when it finally does get stuck, it will likely be in a
much more remote area than I could have gotten with my 2WDs, but that's the
fun of 4WD. Bring a friend with a 4WD and a tow strap and I get to see
places I only wished I could see before.

Robert

> Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 21:22:48 -0400
> From: "boyrr"
> Subject: Re: FTE Small - 2 WD does not suck...
>
> Well put Dude, the only advantage to 4WD is that it allows you to get
stuck
> in more inaccessible places.
>
> From a very satisfied owner of a 99 Ranger XLT 2WD. (Regular cab)
>
>


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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 10:19:21 -0500
From: Mike Harms
Subject: RE: FTE Small - To Lock or to Anti-lock

As another person pointed out, whoever at the dealership told you that it
was related to the anti-lock system, doesn't know what they are talking
about.

Anti-Lock systems failure mode is to be stuck wide open, which means that
your brakes will just not benefit from anti-lock features. Anti-lock
solenoids bleed pressure, they don't create pressure so even a mechanical
failure (stuck piston in a solenoid) would leave you with marginal brakes,
not full on brakes.

If both wheels truly locked up and all you did was tap on the brakes, I
would say you had a catastrophic failure in something mechanical in the
front end. Hydraulic pressure in the brake lines is increased only through
the means of your foot applied to the brake pedal. For brakes to be locked
on, at a level greater than your foot first said to apply only something
mechanical could cause that. A stuck piston in a caliper wouldn't even do
that, the brakes would just be stuck at whatever level you last pressed on
the pedal. If your caliper mounting bracket broke, I would say that
something came loose at the wheels, that forced the pads up against the
rotors and caused the slowing of the vehicle. Possibly even the caliper
mounting itself. Had you had any brake work done recently? Or it even
could have been a problem from the factory, where something wasn't tightened
down tight and finally came loose.

If I were you I would push the dealer on it, and if they won't come up with
something better than Anti-Lock then I would talk to the zone rep for Ford.
Regardless of the cause, brakes applying themselves without user
intervention is a serious enough issue that a true cause should be
determined, and I am sure the Ford Zone rep would work with you to ensure a
cause is found if the dealer is unwilling.

>Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 14:04:32 -0700 (PDT)
>From: dixiedoo uky.campuscwix.net
>Subject: FTE Small - To Lock or to Anti-lock

>Hello everyone,
>I had my first Ranger tow since new this past week involving complete front
>brake lock-up. I have a 98 3.0 EC 4x4 with only 12k miles. Fortunately the
>roadside assistance handled the expense(not the aggravation!). I was
>cruising down the interstate when I tapped my brakes to disengage cruise
>before a lane change when all of a sudden both front wheels locked up. I
>managed to somehow guide the thing off the road, get out and smell the
>burning parts.
>After getting towed to the nearest Ford service, all I was told was "sounds
>like your anti-lock system went south".
...
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 10:27:28 -0700
From: Clayton Nichols
Subject: Re: FTE Small - Re: 2WD Does Not Suck

I have to agree. I live in Vancouver, BC, Canada, and winter is a lot different
with a 4x4. i had trouble the last 2 winters becasue my 4x4 was broken. BTW to
the guy who asked about his 4x4 not working check the locking hubs. Those
automatic locking ones have a tendancy to just give up that was my problem. I
have a 88 Ranger 4x4, worth give or take $6000. 88 Ranger 2WD is worth about
$2000 in the local papers.

"Strukel, Mike" wrote:

> -----Original Message-----
>
> One thing to keep in mind about 4WD during the winter is it does NOT give
> you more traction on ice.
> In fact, 4WD on ice is actually more dangerous than 2wd, because if the
> wheels start to slide from too much power applied, or your foot comes off
> the gas and engine braking makes the tires start slipping, you've totally
> lost all control... With 2wd, overpowering and underpowering on ice will
> break theback end loose, but the fronts will still be there to allow
> steering unless you hit the brakes.
> ===========================================================
> David Cooley N5XMT Internet: N5XMT bellsouth.net
> Packet: N5XMT KQ4LO.#INT.NC.USA.NA T.A.P.R. Member #7068
> We are Borg... Prepare to be assimilated!
> ===========================================================
>
> I have to disagree with that train of thought, or at least partially. 4
> wheel drive does not help you stop on ice, but DOES give you added
> traction on ice. I live in northern MN, and we spend 5 - 6 months of the
> year driving on Snow/ice. I have owned numerous 2 and 4 wheel drive trucks
> over the last 15 years. 4x4 gives you a very large advantage on snow and
> ice PERIOD.
> Where most people get into trouble with 4x4s is the fact that they think
> that they can run 60mph down an ice cover road because they have 4 wheel
> drive. Definately not true.
>
> If I lived in a climate that was not prone to snow/ice, there would
> definately not be a good reason to spend the extra money on 4 wheel
> drive(barring off road use). A 2 wheel drive would probably be fine.
>
> Usually the 2 wheel/4 wheel debate comes down to 3 reasons.
> 1. Cost - A general statement (and I am saying GENERAL) is that the people
> in my area who buy
> 2 wheel drive trucks can't justify the added expense or can't
> afford the added expense
>
> 2. Use - Some people like the "sport truck" such as the Lightning. Those
> trucks are definately
> oriented tward 2 wheel drive.
>
> 3. Never owned one - Quite a number of people who have never owned 4x4s
> say that there is no
> need for one. Usually there people change thier mind
> when they buy a 4x4.
> I did!
>
> Another thing to consider, depending on your location, is resale. Here in
> MN, 2 wheel drive trucks have poor resale. I guess that could be an
> advantage if you are a buyer, but a disadvantage as a seller.
>
> Again, I am not saying one is better than another, but rather just bringing
> up a few points.
>
> Mike Strukel
> 99 F250SD 4x4 v10, superchip, 2"superlift, 35x12.50 BFG Mud Terrains
> 98 Explorer
> 68 bronco
>
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 14:35:16 -0400
From: David Cooley
Subject: RE: FTE Small - To Lock or to Anti-lock

At 10:19 AM 9/10/1999 -0500, you wrote:
>As another person pointed out, whoever at the dealership told you that it
>was related to the anti-lock system, doesn't know what they are talking
>about.
>
>Anti-Lock systems failure mode is to be stuck wide open, which means that
>your brakes will just not benefit from anti-lock features. Anti-lock
>solenoids bleed pressure, they don't create pressure so even a mechanical
>failure (stuck piston in a solenoid) would leave you with marginal brakes,
>not full on brakes.

Actually, they do supply pressure... That is why they have a pump and
accumulator on them... It pressurizes the fluid and stores it in the
accumulator. If ABS only releived pressure, when it applied itself in a
panic stop, the brakes would go to the floor due to a loss of fluid back to
the reservoir... ABS modulates the braking by bleeding then applying
pressure back to the calipers/cylinders.



===========================================================
David Cooley N5XMT Internet: N5XMT bellsouth.net
Packet: N5XMT KQ4LO.#INT.NC.USA.NA T.A.P.R. Member #7068
We are Borg... Prepare to be assimilated!
===========================================================

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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 21:14:32 EDT
From: SCOBBYDOOO aol.com
Subject: RE: FTE Small - Re: 2WD Does Not Suck

The resale on 2wd trucks is much lower than on 4 wheel drives due to the fact
that the purchase price of 4wd's is much higher than that of 2wd's. But look
at the fact that the 4 wheel drives cost much more to own and operate so it
does have its advantages and disadvantages. Lots of people are happy with
2wd's and lots are happy with 4wd's it has to do with personal preference and
what the truck is used for and where you go. If you live in a place that
doesn't get tremendous amounts of snow and mostly drive around the city its
better to have a 2wd drive truck. But if you live in MN like of the other
people on this list its something that is very usefull and probally well
worth the extra dough for the 4wd.

So it really just comes down to personal preference.

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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 00:14:37 EDT
From: DJ250r aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE Small - 2 WD does not suck...

The fastest truck in the desert racing scene is ?????????
2 wheel drive !!!!!
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Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 00:15:30 EDT
From: DJ250r aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE Small - Re: 2WD Does Not Suck

THANK GOD I DONT LIVE THERE !!!!!!!!! SUNNY CA. HERE
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Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 00:17:54 -0400
From: Tom Kirkbride
Subject: FTE Small - help!!

Hey, i was driving my 84 B2 V6 4X4 down the road at 40 mph today when all
of a sudden it backfired twice real loud and then shut off. I pulled
into a parking lot and tried to restart it. It chugged hard and wouldnt
start. This truck just rolled 134000 miles. I had a few people say its
the timing chain. Any ideas? Cost isnt a factor, i have a parts truck.
thanks

Tom Kirkbride

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Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 00:21:40 EDT
From: DJ250r aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE Small - Re: 2WD Does Not Suck....


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