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Subject: small-list-digest V3 #197
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small-list-digest Thursday, August 5 1999 Volume 03 : Number 197



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Ford Truck Enthusiasts - Ranger, Explorer, Bronco 2 and Aerostar
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In this issue:

RE: FTE Small - TRansfer Cases and ATF
FTE Small - Now what??
Re: FTE Small - Now what??
RE: FTE Small - 88 BII 4x4 auto -- Not shifting + dash noise
Re: Subject: RE: FTE Small - TRansfer Cases and ATF

=======================================================================

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1999 08:02:42 -0500
From: Mike Harms
Subject: RE: FTE Small - TRansfer Cases and ATF

Hey you, FREEZE!

Don't replace another part! You're gonna nickel and dime (or $50 and $100)
yourself to death if you just keep replacing parts. You've got to pin the
problem down before any more parts get replaced. I'm really supprised you
are having so much trouble tracking this one down. If it's consistent, and
produces a physical effect, it usually isn't so hard to track down.

Brake lines would be an unlikely cause of what you describe. Only in the
morning and goes away after a mile or so sounds like engine issues
(considering you have replaced the entire driveline). I still think you
need to invest the $50 to $100 in having a qualified mechanic spend some
diagnostic time with your vehicle to pinpoint the problem.

I don't know enough about the computer on your vehicle, but I'm thinking
engine due to how most computer control engines run in a closed loop mode
for the first few minutes of operation to keep emissions low and then after
a certain period of time, the computer goes into open loop where it starts
to pay attention to different things to make adjustments. When you have a
derivability problem that is there for just a few minutes when the engine is
cold and goes away after it is warm, that is usually one place to look.

But please, before you replace any more parts, have a good mechanic take a
look at it. This problem has got to have been getting expensive for you.


>Date: Tue, 03 Aug 1999 19:03:09 -0700
>From: Adam McLaughlin
>Subject: Re: FTE Small - TRansfer Cases and ATF
...
>The problem ONLY happens right after I start it in the morning, while the
rig is
>very cold. It doesn't happen a little bit after I get moving, maybe a mile
or so
>after going down the road. If I have to stop between the time of one mile
and
>from starting, I experience this.
>It isn't in the engine, the motor doesn't cough or even slow down while
this is
>happening. I think it is happening after my brand new clutch down.
...
>joints, and tie rod ends on about two thousand miles ago... It could be the
>brake lines, though. Those front lines don't look so spic and span as I
would
>have liked them to be. they are 11 years old, after all.....

>I'm bewildered.... Maybe It's time that I replace the brake lines?

...
>> My goodness, talk about an exercise in parts swapping. I hope you
haven't
>> done all of that work just to track down the jumping! This type of
problem
...
>> This is assuming the engine is producing smooth power and not dropping
out
>> and in rapidly. Heck, this could even be a problem in the brakes, or
front
>> end. Try and find a local shop to help you out in diagnosing the
problem.
...
>> >starting out in the morning. When I let the clutch out, the rear end
>> >jumps up as if I am popping the clutch about 8 to 10 times per second!
== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1999 07:37:44 -0700
From: Adam McLaughlin
Subject: FTE Small - Now what??

Hmmm... That surely does throw a spin into it. When I got it, it needed a MAP
sensor, and an O 2 sensor, as well as a TPS. Now the computer tells me a code of
1-1 while running, and while not. The computer thinks that everything is
alright... This emngine doesn't burn or leak any synthetic oil. When I am going
to the offroad meetings, people love to stop by and tell me that it sounds so
good... And it does... It's great... :-)

Maybe I'll have someone else take a look at this.

The other thing to keep in mind is that if I rev it up a little bit higher, like
say 200 rpms above idle and THEN ease the clutch out, I don't see this
problem...

Huh....

Adam



Mike Harms wrote:

> Hey you, FREEZE!
>
> Don't replace another part! You're gonna nickel and dime (or $50 and $100)
> yourself to death if you just keep replacing parts. You've got to pin the
> problem down before any more parts get replaced. I'm really supprised you
> are having so much trouble tracking this one down. If it's consistent, and
> produces a physical effect, it usually isn't so hard to track down.
>
> Brake lines would be an unlikely cause of what you describe. Only in the
> morning and goes away after a mile or so sounds like engine issues
> (considering you have replaced the entire driveline). I still think you
> need to invest the $50 to $100 in having a qualified mechanic spend some
> diagnostic time with your vehicle to pinpoint the problem.
>
> I don't know enough about the computer on your vehicle, but I'm thinking
> engine due to how most computer control engines run in a closed loop mode
> for the first few minutes of operation to keep emissions low and then after
> a certain period of time, the computer goes into open loop where it starts
> to pay attention to different things to make adjustments. When you have a
> derivability problem that is there for just a few minutes when the engine is
> cold and goes away after it is warm, that is usually one place to look.
>
> But please, before you replace any more parts, have a good mechanic take a
> look at it. This problem has got to have been getting expensive for you.
>
> >Date: Tue, 03 Aug 1999 19:03:09 -0700
> >From: Adam McLaughlin
> >Subject: Re: FTE Small - TRansfer Cases and ATF
> ...
> >The problem ONLY happens right after I start it in the morning, while the
> rig is
> >very cold. It doesn't happen a little bit after I get moving, maybe a mile
> or so
> >after going down the road. If I have to stop between the time of one mile
> and
> >from starting, I experience this.
> >It isn't in the engine, the motor doesn't cough or even slow down while
> this is
> >happening. I think it is happening after my brand new clutch down.
> ...
> >joints, and tie rod ends on about two thousand miles ago... It could be the
> >brake lines, though. Those front lines don't look so spic and span as I
> would
> >have liked them to be. they are 11 years old, after all.....
>
> >I'm bewildered.... Maybe It's time that I replace the brake lines?
>
> ...
> >> My goodness, talk about an exercise in parts swapping. I hope you
> haven't
> >> done all of that work just to track down the jumping! This type of
> problem
> ...
> >> This is assuming the engine is producing smooth power and not dropping
> out
> >> and in rapidly. Heck, this could even be a problem in the brakes, or
> front
> >> end. Try and find a local shop to help you out in diagnosing the
> problem.
> ...
> >> >starting out in the morning. When I let the clutch out, the rear end
> >> >jumps up as if I am popping the clutch about 8 to 10 times per second!
> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1999 12:04:08 -0400
From: "Tarun"
Subject: Re: FTE Small - Now what??

Hello.
Saw u posting msgs...thought I would ask a question.
Do the new Head Units from the 99/2000 stereos fit in the 97 explorer XLT's
and if so what type of harness do they require"
Does anyone have any ideas as to where a stock unit can be traded in for a
newer or refurbished stock unit...basically my cd changer is in pain and
needs to be replaced.


- ----- Original Message -----
From: Adam McLaughlin
To:
Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 1999 10:37 AM
Subject: FTE Small - Now what??


> Hmmm... That surely does throw a spin into it. When I got it, it needed a
MAP
> sensor, and an O 2 sensor, as well as a TPS. Now the computer tells me a
code of
> 1-1 while running, and while not. The computer thinks that everything is
> alright... This emngine doesn't burn or leak any synthetic oil. When I am
going
> to the offroad meetings, people love to stop by and tell me that it sounds
so
> good... And it does... It's great... :-)
>
> Maybe I'll have someone else take a look at this.
>
> The other thing to keep in mind is that if I rev it up a little bit
higher, like
> say 200 rpms above idle and THEN ease the clutch out, I don't see this
> problem...
>
> Huh....
>
> Adam
>
>
>
> Mike Harms wrote:
>
> > Hey you, FREEZE!
> >
> > Don't replace another part! You're gonna nickel and dime (or $50 and
$100)
> > yourself to death if you just keep replacing parts. You've got to pin
the
> > problem down before any more parts get replaced. I'm really supprised
you
> > are having so much trouble tracking this one down. If it's consistent,
and
> > produces a physical effect, it usually isn't so hard to track down.
> >
> > Brake lines would be an unlikely cause of what you describe. Only in
the
> > morning and goes away after a mile or so sounds like engine issues
> > (considering you have replaced the entire driveline). I still think you
> > need to invest the $50 to $100 in having a qualified mechanic spend some
> > diagnostic time with your vehicle to pinpoint the problem.
> >
> > I don't know enough about the computer on your vehicle, but I'm thinking
> > engine due to how most computer control engines run in a closed loop
mode
> > for the first few minutes of operation to keep emissions low and then
after
> > a certain period of time, the computer goes into open loop where it
starts
> > to pay attention to different things to make adjustments. When you have
a
> > derivability problem that is there for just a few minutes when the
engine is
> > cold and goes away after it is warm, that is usually one place to look.
> >
> > But please, before you replace any more parts, have a good mechanic take
a
> > look at it. This problem has got to have been getting expensive for
you.
> >
> > >Date: Tue, 03 Aug 1999 19:03:09 -0700
> > >From: Adam McLaughlin
> > >Subject: Re: FTE Small - TRansfer Cases and ATF
> > ...
> > >The problem ONLY happens right after I start it in the morning, while
the
> > rig is
> > >very cold. It doesn't happen a little bit after I get moving, maybe a
mile
> > or so
> > >after going down the road. If I have to stop between the time of one
mile
> > and
> > >from starting, I experience this.
> > >It isn't in the engine, the motor doesn't cough or even slow down while
> > this is
> > >happening. I think it is happening after my brand new clutch down.
> > ...
> > >joints, and tie rod ends on about two thousand miles ago... It could be
the
> > >brake lines, though. Those front lines don't look so spic and span as I
> > would
> > >have liked them to be. they are 11 years old, after all.....
> >
> > >I'm bewildered.... Maybe It's time that I replace the brake lines?
> >
> > ...
> > >> My goodness, talk about an exercise in parts swapping. I hope you
> > haven't
> > >> done all of that work just to track down the jumping! This type of
> > problem
> > ...
> > >> This is assuming the engine is producing smooth power and not
dropping
> > out
> > >> and in rapidly. Heck, this could even be a problem in the brakes, or
> > front
> > >> end. Try and find a local shop to help you out in diagnosing the
> > problem.
> > ...
> > >> >starting out in the morning. When I let the clutch out, the rear end
> > >> >jumps up as if I am popping the clutch about 8 to 10 times per
second!
> > == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
>
> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1999 12:25:44 -0500
From: "Campbell, Carl "
Subject: RE: FTE Small - 88 BII 4x4 auto -- Not shifting + dash noise

Hi Stephen:
I had the same thing happen to my 88 BII XLT auto about two years ago.
Here's what I found. In the shifter mechanism there is a safety pawl that
releases when you press the button. Where the release shaft meets the pawl,
wear occurs over time and the pawl won't travel far enough to clear the
teeth that it engages in while in PARK. I removed the pawl, shaft, and
retaining spring on mine and it works just fine. It's located where the
shifter handle meets the floor. You'll have to remove the boot and housing
to get to it. (four Phillips screws). You won't be able to remove the boot
completely without disassembling the shifter but I was able to move the boot
far enough out of the way without taking it completely off. Bear in mind
that, once the pawl is removed, it will no longer be necessary to push the
button to shift into REVERSE or PARK, therefor, care must be taken that the
shifter doesn't get accidentally kicked into REVERSE or PARK while the
vehicle is in motion. As far as your dash rumble, does it sound like
something is loose under the dash or is it more like drive line noise?

> ----------
> From: Stephen Bozzone[SMTP:editor rockzone.com]
> Sent: Sunday, August 01, 1999 10:32 AM
> To: small-list ford-trucks.com
> Cc: 410 jamie fortune
> Subject: FTE Small - 88 BII 4x4 auto -- Not shifting + dash noise
>
> Just yesterday, ready to leave, I started up and attempted to shift in
> reverse. No go. The shifter seemed a little looser than normal, so did
> the
> button. It simply would not budge out of P, even with additional force.
> I
> continued to wiggle this thing for awhile, consulted my Chilton's manual,
> and wiggled some more while a friend was looking at it from above and
> underneath, when it simple went into gear.
>
> Any ideas here? Is it liable to happen again?
>
> Also, I've noticed that after the car has been running for about 10
> minutes,
> whenever I come to a stop (while still in drive), a rumbling noise comes
> from the center of the dash, VERY Noticeable unless I have the music UP.
> It's simply annoying, I don't see any other effects it has on it.
>
> Thanks,
> Steve Bozzone
> Administrative Director - http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://rockzone.com
> ICQ: 196843 || AIM: RudeSkam69
> -- "I see now mankind was not meant to last." [Hatebreed] --
>
>
>
> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
>
== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1999 19:57:42 -0700
From: "Keith Christensen"
Subject: Re: Subject: RE: FTE Small - TRansfer Cases and ATF

> Date: Tue, 03 Aug 1999 17:38:35 CDT
> From: "Bad Brian"
> Subject: Re: FTE Small - TRansfer Cases and ATF

... Don't know if this fell into the thread in the right place...
... and didn't think to go back to the original post.................

After all the parts replaced (rear axle, clutch, rear driveshaft), I'd be
looking at the brakes _BUT_ not as the brakes all by themselves.
The rear brakes are used as part of the RWABS or whatever Ford called it.
(Rear antilock brakes)

I got this sneaking suspicion that the ABS is hanging up pressure on the
rear brakes by 'seizing' line pressure. You may have a 'ballooned" brake
line that allows pressure to expand a rubber flex line .

Most folks (especially if auto trans) will put a foot down on the brakes
when they get in and put the key in the ignition..

This preloads the rear brakes and pressurizes the lines. If you have the
'balloon , you have a primitive servo on the brakes, but only if the RWABS
sticks.

You apply da key.... RWABS starts its checklist..

You start the engine, the idiot light goes out..... pressure is still on,
and IIRC, the RWABS can 'trap' the line pressure you applied.

OK.. the RWABS has trapped the pressure by a malfunction, and that pressure
is stored in a ballooned brake line.

You let out the clutch .. it has to break free of the drag of the brakes,,
it does, but the brakes have the pressure behind the balloon just waiting
for a little less axle action. As soon as you back off the least bit, the
brakes grab. You (and I know I would.. ) apply a little more throttle.. it
overcomes the brakes, brakes "ungrab" again......


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