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Subject: small-list-digest V3 #161
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small-list-digest Monday, June 28 1999 Volume 03 : Number 161



=======================================================================
Ford Truck Enthusiasts - Ranger, Explorer, Bronco 2 and Aerostar
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In this issue:

FTE Small - Check Engine Light
FTE Small - Shoddy service
Re: FTE Small - Check Engine Light
Re: FTE Small - Check Engine Light
Re:FTE Small - door ajar light and noise
RE: FTE Small - Pinging Explorer
RE: FTE Small - Pinging Explorer
RE: FTE Small - Pinging Explorer
RE: FTE Small - Pinging Explorer
RE: FTE Small - Pinging Explorer

=======================================================================

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 27 Jun 1999 11:05:11 EDT
From: Blest25913 aol.com
Subject: FTE Small - Check Engine Light

The CH ENGINE light has been on since Sep. '98 in my '96 Ranger 4X4 3.0L. I
finally took it to the dealer. They said that both front Oxygen sensors
needed to be replaced, and they could have the parts in a week. So the next
week they replaced them and I paid the $200. I started up the truck and the
light came back on. I went back in and told them, and they pulled the truck
in again. This time the verdict was that the ECU was bad, and it would cost
$215. He also gave me a calibration code that I would need in case I decided
to buy it and install it myself.
I went out and started the truck, and the check engine light was off. I
thought maybe they took the bulb out, but the light comes on when I turn the
ignition on just before I start it. That was 300 miles ago, and still no
check engine light.
I think I'll call them tomorrow, and hear their latest story.

Ron Trampe
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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 27 Jun 1999 16:23:06 +0100
From: "Neil Brownlee"
Subject: FTE Small - Shoddy service

As some of you will remember, I am having a frame up rebuild done on my UK
Explorer, the first of it's kind over here I have been told by Ford. OKay,
well after 2 test drives...it's sh*t. Steering jumps, feels like the front
end just doesn't want to stay straight. Brakes grind when applied. Air vents
all blow NO air at all, whatever the setting (they say this is NOT their
fault!! ha ha ha ha), wind noise is amazing from most windows...the list
goes on. Not to mention one side is Emerald and the other is NOT....oh dear

Anyway, my question is this -

When I put it to them they had not checked my fluid levels at all and had
simply *filled it*, they said..oh no, we took it to the service dept. They
gave it a full service. RIght, so I dragged out to the parking lot, popped
the hood and asked - "So whay do have 2 litres more coolant than I need in
this tank then?". HIs answer was to say they would drain it. Why is it full
anyway??? Idiots!!

So, what are the consequences of filling the expansion tank to the top on a
98 Explorer? Remember it seems to have a 2 to 2.5 litre expansion tank, and
the cold fill is near the very bottom...surely it's like that for a REASON?

Any help..please!

Neil



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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 27 Jun 1999 07:17:22 -0400 (EDT)
From: dave slotter.org (Dave Slotter)
Subject: Re: FTE Small - Check Engine Light

> The CH ENGINE light has been on since Sep. '98 in my '96 Ranger 4X4 3.0L. I
> finally took it to the dealer. They said that both front Oxygen sensors
> needed to be replaced, and they could have the parts in a week. So the next
> week they replaced them and I paid the $200. I started up the truck and the
> light came back on. I went back in and told them, and they pulled the truck
> in again. This time the verdict was that the ECU was bad, and it would cost
> $215. He also gave me a calibration code that I would need in case I decided
> to buy it and install it myself.
> I went out and started the truck, and the check engine light was off. I
> thought maybe they took the bulb out, but the light comes on when I turn the
> ignition on just before I start it. That was 300 miles ago, and still no
> check engine light.
> I think I'll call them tomorrow, and hear their latest story.
>
> Ron Trampe

Hi Ron. I would suspect that the "Check Engine" light shows the latest
set of codes that your Ranger's computer has developed. Since everything is
operating within normal parameters (now), the light is off.

Once you actually drove the vehicle, the new O2 sensors operated properly and
the computer (ECU) removed the codes and no longer lit the "Check Engine"
light.

Computers in vehicles *RARELY* go bad.

I would say that your dealer did the right work initially and that they
failed to make sure that the original customer complaint (yours) was
satisfied - ie "Check Engine Light". They should have driven the car around
or just ran it for a little bit to make sure the codes disappeared and the
light turned off.

That is probably what happened - your vehicle wasn't operated long enough
before you got it back in order to turn out the light. In my mind, they
overcharged you for parts and labor - two O2 sensors *should* cost you less
than $100. This job *should* take less than an hour. Why you paid more than
$100/hour for labor and of course paid a *premium* for parts and they didn't
do what I consider to be a decent job, I don't know. Probably greed.

That suggestion to replace of the ECU was uncalled for. I *HATE* how shops
will just replace parts blindly whenever a customer complains.

That's my theory. (I can't know for sure unless I inspected it myself.)

- -Dave

P.S. This is just the reason I do my own maintenance. It costs a heck of a lot
less plus I know if I did a good job or not (most of the time).
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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 27 Jun 1999 08:40:16 -0700
From: "Michael D. Sheridan"
Subject: Re: FTE Small - Check Engine Light

Blest25913 aol.com wrote:
>
> The CH ENGINE light has been on since Sep. '98 in my '96 Ranger 4X4 3.0L. I
> finally took it to the dealer. They said that both front Oxygen sensors
> needed to be replaced, and they could have the parts in a week. So the next
> week they replaced them and I paid the $200. I started up the truck and the
> light came back on. I went back in and told them, and they pulled the truck
> in again. This time the verdict was that the ECU was bad, and it would cost
> $215. He also gave me a calibration code that I would need in case I decided
> to buy it and install it myself.
> I went out and started the truck, and the check engine light was off. I
> thought maybe they took the bulb out, but the light comes on when I turn the
> ignition on just before I start it. That was 300 miles ago, and still no
> check engine light.
> I think I'll call them tomorrow, and hear their latest story.
>
> Ron Trampe

Hi Ron:

Do you have your old parts?

Michael
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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 27 Jun 1999 12:56:38 -0400
From: Rick and Deborah Kelso
Subject: Re:FTE Small - door ajar light and noise

I have a 95 Ranger and even when the doors are closed the door ajar light
stays on for a while (sometimes 20 minutes) and that dinging noise also
keeps
going. Any suggestions how to fix that?
Thank you

The problem is probably the door ajar switch. It should be located on the door
latch assembly inside the door. Remove the door panelfor access. The faulty switch
is more than likely the one on the driver's door.

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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 27 Jun 1999 13:31:07 -0700
From: Ray Scheidnes
Subject: RE: FTE Small - Pinging Explorer

I sometimes hear some pinging from my '94 4.0 (5 speed). Usually it's on a
warm day, when I'm going up a hill or loading the engine somehow. I read
that one of the quickest remedies that you should try is to change brands of
gasoline (but try to stay with a name brand). I typically use Chevron,
which I like, but recently I purchased 76. I stayed with 87 octane, and the
results were favorable. You might also try a higher octane of a different
brand if you wish.
With the seasons changing right about now, the oil companies may be
switching to their warm weather "brews" which may also be causing some
pinging...

> ----------
> From: Joe Merchak[SMTP:jmerchak eclipse.net]
> Reply To: small-list ford-trucks.com
> Sent: Friday, June 25, 1999 8:21 PM
> To: small-list ford-trucks.com
> Subject: RE: FTE Small - Pinging Explorer
>
> Well got the truck back from the dealer today. They said found nothing
> wrong - could not validate customer's claims. Of course they could not, I
> have to run super in the truck to keep it from pinging. This is the third
> time back without any positive results. Any suggestions would be helpful.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-small-list ford-trucks.com
> [mailto:owner-small-list ford-trucks.com]On Behalf Of Ray Scheidnes
> Sent: Friday, June 25, 1999 9:41 AM
> To: 'small-list ford-trucks.com'
> Subject: RE: FTE Small - Pinging Explorer
>
>
> Ping/Spark knock/detonation is caused by the fuel charge being ignited
> before the spark plug fires then when the plug does fire all of a sudden
> there are two flame fronts (explosions!) heading towards each other with
> predictable results.
>
> Joesph Merchak wrote:
> >
> > I bought a 99 Ranger XLT 4x4 supercab with a 4 speed auto. Since the
> warm
> weather, the engine pings, even when its not under any load. I have taken
> back to the dealer and was told nothing is wrong, but they wont explain to
> me why I am forced to use plus or better fuel. Has anyone seen this
> problem?
>
> Keep going back to the dealer until it's resolved. The same additives
> that raise octane in today's gasoline are the prime cause of carbon
> deposits that increase the octane need. (catch-22!) There is *NO*
> reason to use a fuel of higher octane than Ford specifies for your
> engine when it's working as designed and there are TSBs that state that
> this will cause more harm than the (intended) good. A couple quick
> pings under load aren't anything to worry about but I gather it's more
> severe than that! Keep us posted and feel free to e-mail me off list.
>
> Tim Turner/Manic Mechanic
> Custer Auto Repair
> Wilmington NC
> >
> > == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
>
> Pinging is caused by improper detonation of the fuel air mixture in the
> combustion chamber. In a typical new car it is only noticed when the
> engine
> is under load at lower RPM's like going up a hill in overdrive or
> something.
> The engine in a current car should run without pinging when using the gas
> rated the same as what is printed in the owners manual. Some cars have
> detonation sensors that will restrict timing and adjust the fuel/air
> mixture
> to stop detonation in case you end up having to use a fuel that is below
> the
> grade the engine is designed for. A engines designed rating is usually
> determined by the compression ratio of the cylinders, though not only by
> this.
>
> Of course older vehicles (prior to unleaded fuel) tend to Ping more easily
> because of many reasons including: Higher than optimum compression ratio
> for
> the fuel made today, carbon deposits in the cylinders causing "hot" spots,
> Poor fuel air mixture and incorrect timing.
>
> Here is a nice web page that goes through pinging and engine kocking:
> http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.virtualsoftware.com/intellipro/happycar/Demo/Prophet/prob82.htm
>
>
>
> --Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 14:07:31 -0400
> --From: "Kenneth J. Nagy"
> --Subject: Re: FTE Small - Pinging on a 3.0L
>
>
> > ----------
> > From: J.S.H.[SMTP:F428 ford-trucks.com]
> > Reply To: small-list ford-trucks.com
> > Sent: Thursday, June 24, 1999 10:25 PM
> > To: small list
> > Subject: FTE Small - Pinging Explorer
> >
> > My 91 Explorer is pinging.I know this was covered before,
> > and if I remember correctly the consensus was EGR valve.
> > Is that correct?
> > == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
> >
> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
>
> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
>
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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 27 Jun 1999 16:35:56 -0400
From: "David A. Cooley"
Subject: RE: FTE Small - Pinging Explorer

At 01:31 PM 6/27/99 -0700, you wrote:
>I sometimes hear some pinging from my '94 4.0 (5 speed). Usually it's on a
>warm day, when I'm going up a hill or loading the engine somehow. I read
>that one of the quickest remedies that you should try is to change brands of
>gasoline (but try to stay with a name brand). I typically use Chevron,
>which I like, but recently I purchased 76. I stayed with 87 octane, and the
>results were favorable. You might also try a higher octane of a different
>brand if you wish.

Another thing that helps is a couple cans of injector cleaner, preferably
Techron... it cleans some of the carbon and deposits out of the cylinders
and off the valves.

>With the seasons changing right about now, the oil companies may be
>switching to their warm weather "brews" which may also be causing some
>pinging...

Actually, it's the winter brews that ping worse when the weather starts
turning warm... extra oxygenates in the gas actually make the engine run
leaner, making it more prone to detonation.

===========================================================
David Cooley N5XMT Internet: N5XMT bellsouth.net
Packet: N5XMT KQ4LO.#INT.NC.USA.NA T.A.P.R. Member #7068
Sponges grow in the ocean... Wonder how deep it would be if they didn't?!
===========================================================
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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 27 Jun 1999 14:00:13 -0700
From: Rick Horwitz
Subject: RE: FTE Small - Pinging Explorer

I haven't found a fuel in Phoenix that doesn't cause my Explorer to ping a
little under full load. Funny thing, I just got back from Moab and had
filled my tank twice in Utah. No knocking at all with Utah fuel not even
after I filled up with half a tank of AZ gas. Once I burned all of the Utah
gas out though same problem, pinging with the AZ gas.

I think the new oxygenated fuels with MTBE ot Ethynol just plain stink.
That's the only difference I can see between UT and AZ gas.

Do you run oxygenated fuel in your area?

Rick Horwitz
explorer 4x4 central. com
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.4x4 central. com


At 04:35 PM 6/27/99 -0400, you wrote:
>At 01:31 PM 6/27/99 -0700, you wrote:
>>I sometimes hear some pinging from my '94 4.0 (5 speed). Usually it's on a
>>warm day, when I'm going up a hill or loading the engine somehow. I read
>>that one of the quickest remedies that you should try is to change brands of
>>gasoline (but try to stay with a name brand). I typically use Chevron,
>>which I like, but recently I purchased 76. I stayed with 87 octane, and the
>>results were favorable. You might also try a higher octane of a different
>>brand if you wish.
>
>Another thing that helps is a couple cans of injector cleaner, preferably
>Techron... it cleans some of the carbon and deposits out of the cylinders
>and off the valves.
>
>>With the seasons changing right about now, the oil companies may be
>>switching to their warm weather "brews" which may also be causing some
>>pinging...
>
>Actually, it's the winter brews that ping worse when the weather starts
>turning warm... extra oxygenates in the gas actually make the engine run
>leaner, making it more prone to detonation.
>
>===========================================================
> David Cooley N5XMT Internet: N5XMT bellsouth.net
> Packet: N5XMT KQ4LO.#INT.NC.USA.NA T.A.P.R. Member #7068
> Sponges grow in the ocean... Wonder how deep it would be if they didn't?!
>===========================================================
>== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 27 Jun 1999 14:11:01 -0700
From: Ray Scheidnes
Subject: RE: FTE Small - Pinging Explorer

I think California gas must be like the Arizona gas...

> ----------
> From: Rick Horwitz[SMTP:rick rhphoto.com]
> Reply To: small-list ford-trucks.com
> Sent: Sunday, June 27, 1999 2:00 PM
> To: small-list ford-trucks.com
> Subject: RE: FTE Small - Pinging Explorer
>
> I haven't found a fuel in Phoenix that doesn't cause my Explorer to ping a
> little under full load. Funny thing, I just got back from Moab and had
> filled my tank twice in Utah. No knocking at all with Utah fuel not even
> after I filled up with half a tank of AZ gas. Once I burned all of the
> Utah
> gas out though same problem, pinging with the AZ gas.
>
> I think the new oxygenated fuels with MTBE ot Ethynol just plain stink.
> That's the only difference I can see between UT and AZ gas.
>
> Do you run oxygenated fuel in your area?
>
> Rick Horwitz
> explorer 4x4 central. com
> http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.4x4 central. com
>
>
> At 04:35 PM 6/27/99 -0400, you wrote:
> >At 01:31 PM 6/27/99 -0700, you wrote:
> >>I sometimes hear some pinging from my '94 4.0 (5 speed). Usually it's
> on a
> >>warm day, when I'm going up a hill or loading the engine somehow. I
> read
> >>that one of the quickest remedies that you should try is to change
> brands of
> >>gasoline (but try to stay with a name brand). I typically use Chevron,
> >>which I like, but recently I purchased 76. I stayed with 87 octane, and
> the
> >>results were favorable. You might also try a higher octane of a
> different
> >>brand if you wish.
> >
> >Another thing that helps is a couple cans of injector cleaner, preferably
> >Techron... it cleans some of the carbon and deposits out of the cylinders
> >and off the valves.
> >
> >>With the seasons changing right about now, the oil companies may be
> >>switching to their warm weather "brews" which may also be causing some
> >>pinging...
> >
> >Actually, it's the winter brews that ping worse when the weather starts
> >turning warm... extra oxygenates in the gas actually make the engine run
> >leaner, making it more prone to detonation.
> >
> >===========================================================
> > David Cooley N5XMT Internet: N5XMT bellsouth.net
> > Packet: N5XMT KQ4LO.#INT.NC.USA.NA T.A.P.R. Member #7068
> > Sponges grow in the ocean... Wonder how deep it would be if they
> didn't?!
> >===========================================================
> >== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
>
> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
>
== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 27 Jun 1999 21:48:49 -0400
From: "Joe Merchak"
Subject: RE: FTE Small - Pinging Explorer

I have used 5 different brands...still the same, the truck only has 8k miles

- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-small-list ford-trucks.com
[mailto:owner-small-list ford-trucks.com]On Behalf Of Ray Scheidnes
Sent: Sunday, June 27, 1999 4:31 PM
To: 'small-list ford-trucks.com'
Subject: RE: FTE Small - Pinging Explorer


I sometimes hear some pinging from my '94 4.0 (5 speed). Usually it's on a
warm day, when I'm going up a hill or loading the engine somehow. I read
that one of the quickest remedies that you should try is to change brands of
gasoline (but try to stay with a name brand). I typically use Chevron,
which I like, but recently I purchased 76. I stayed with 87 octane, and the
results were favorable. You might also try a higher octane of a different
brand if you wish.
With the seasons changing right about now, the oil companies may be
switching to their warm weather "brews" which may also be causing some
pinging...

> ----------
> From: Joe Merchak[SMTP:jmerchak eclipse.net]
> Reply To: small-list ford-trucks.com
> Sent: Friday, June 25, 1999 8:21 PM
> To: small-list ford-trucks.com
> Subject: RE: FTE Small - Pinging Explorer
>
> Well got the truck back from the dealer today. They said found nothing
> wrong - could not validate customer's claims. Of course they could not, I
> have to run super in the truck to keep it from pinging. This is the third
> time back without any positive results. Any suggestions would be helpful.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-small-list ford-trucks.com
> [mailto:owner-small-list ford-trucks.com]On Behalf Of Ray Scheidnes
> Sent: Friday, June 25, 1999 9:41 AM
> To: 'small-list ford-trucks.com'
> Subject: RE: FTE Small - Pinging Explorer
>
>
> Ping/Spark knock/detonation is caused by the fuel charge being ignited
> before the spark plug fires then when the plug does fire all of a sudden
> there are two flame fronts (explosions!) heading towards each other with
> predictable results.
>
> Joesph Merchak wrote:
> >
> > I bought a 99 Ranger XLT 4x4 supercab with a 4 speed auto. Since the
> warm
> weather, the engine pings, even when its not under any load. I have taken
> back to the dealer and was told nothing is wrong, but they wont explain to
> me why I am forced to use plus or better fuel. Has anyone seen this
> problem?
>
> Keep going back to the dealer until it's resolved. The same additives
> that raise octane in today's gasoline are the prime cause of carbon
> deposits that increase the octane need. (catch-22!) There is *NO*
> reason to use a fuel of higher octane than Ford specifies for your
> engine when it's working as designed and there are TSBs that state that
> this will cause more harm than the (intended) good. A couple quick
> pings under load aren't anything to worry about but I gather it's more
> severe than that! Keep us posted and feel free to e-mail me off list.
>
> Tim Turner/Manic Mechanic
> Custer Auto Repair
> Wilmington NC
> >
> > == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
>
> Pinging is caused by improper detonation of the fuel air mixture in the
> combustion chamber. In a typical new car it is only noticed when the
> engine
> is under load at lower RPM's like going up a hill in overdrive or
> something.
> The engine in a current car should run without pinging when using the gas
> rated the same as what is printed in the owners manual. Some cars have
> detonation sensors that will restrict timing and adjust the fuel/air
> mixture
> to stop detonation in case you end up having to use a fuel that is below
> the
> grade the engine is designed for. A engines designed rating is usually
> determined by the compression ratio of the cylinders, though not only by
> this.
>
> Of course older vehicles (prior to unleaded fuel) tend to Ping more easily
> because of many reasons including: Higher than optimum compression ratio
> for
> the fuel made today, carbon deposits in the cylinders causing "hot" spots,
> Poor fuel air mixture and incorrect timing.
>
> Here is a nice web page that goes through pinging and engine kocking:
> http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.virtualsoftware.com/intellipro/happycar/Demo/Prophet/prob82.htm
>
>
>
> --Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 14:07:31 -0400
> --From: "Kenneth J. Nagy"
> --Subject: Re: FTE Small - Pinging on a 3.0L
>
>
> > ----------
> > From: J.S.H.[SMTP:F428 ford-trucks.com]
> > Reply To: small-list ....


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