small-list-digest Friday, May 14 1999 Volume 03 : Number 116



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Ford Truck Enthusiasts - Ranger, Explorer, Bronco 2 and Aerostar
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In this issue:

FTE Small - Re: Spout
FTE Small - That red mark on the speedometer
FTE Small - I Need Help with Drive train problems
FTE Small - B II 's with automatics (Was : Can't find Spout)
FTE Small - Bronco-II Auto locking Hubs
RE: FTE Small - Bronco-II Auto locking Hubs
FTE Small - That red mark on the speedometer
RE: FTE Small - I Need Help with Drive train problems
FTE Small - RE: Posi Trac question...
Re: FTE Small - That red mark on the speedometer
Re: AW: FTE Small - That red mark on the speedometer
Re: FTE Small - 98 ranger questions
Re: FTE Small - B II 's with automatics (Was : Can't find Spout)
Re: FTE Small - Bronco-II Auto locking Hubs
Re: FTE Small - Can't find Spout
Fw: FTE Small - B II 's with automatics (Was : Can't find Spout)
Re: FTE Small - Door cracks
Re: FTE Small - For all of those complaining about FoMoCo
Re: FTE Small - That red mark on the speedometer
FTE Small - AW: tranny chuggle (was: red mark...)

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Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 08:49:12 -0500
From: "Danny B."
Subject: FTE Small - Re: Spout

>Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 08:48:52 -0500
>From: "Danny B."
>Subject: FTE Small - Can't find Spout
>
>Could someone please tell me where the Timing Spout would be located
>on a 1986 Bronco II, 2.9L ?
>
>I have looked around the Distributor and diagnostic plug location and
>can't find it. The only thing I did find was a round four pin connector
>with a non conductive plastic cover on it.

>Also, has anyone had any experience with an MSD coil. I just bought one
>but have not installed it yet. I wanted to check the timing first.
>
>
>Regards,
>
>DB


>Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 14:45:21 EDT
>From: Rngr86STX aol.com
>Subject: Re: FTE Small - Can't find Spout
>
>There should be a small wire just to the left of the intake manifold coming
>off the wiring harness. a small two pin plug with a white plastic cap. Timing
>is 10 BTDC---------Good luck


Thanks!

Danny
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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 08:15:55 -0700 (PDT)
From: Bill Ciocco
Subject: FTE Small - That red mark on the speedometer

Please drop the 55 mph red mark thread or take it somewhere else. It has NOTHING to do with small
trucks anymore. Two weeks is long enough to discuss something that doesn't matter.


===
~ .--~~,__
:-....,-------`~~'._.'
`-,,, ,_ ;'~U'
_,-' ,'`-__; '--.
(_/'~~ ''''(;
_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 12:39:26 -0400
From: Mike Peacock
Subject: FTE Small - I Need Help with Drive train problems

About 6 months ago, my '86 BroncoII started making a scraping sound =
while the Trans was in neutral and the clutch was out. I thought it was =
the input shaft(Trans, 5-speed) bearing going bad but did not have the =
money to fix it.
Three months ago the Trans would not shift. I replaced the clutch, =
throw-out bearing, slave cylinder and pilot bearing as well as turning =
down the flywheel. The truck ran fine for a while though it still had =
the scraping sound I assumed was the input bearing. About a month ago I =
started hearing pops and scrapes in 1,2,3,5 gears. Again I thought it =
was the Trans bearings. Because I could not afford $1500 to have someone =
else do it, I rebuilt the Trans myself. Last night I pulled the clutch =
assy. to get to the pilot bearing to replace it again. To my surprise =
the clutch disk, clutch, and flywheel were scored badly. What could have =
eaten up the new parts so quick? The system is hydraulic, so I assume =
it's self adjusting. It actually looks as if the clutch was partially =
engaged all the time to cause the scoring. The rear main seal is =
leaking, but not much. The input shaft bearing was worn and perhaps it =
damaged the front Trans seal, but I doubt that would have spit enough =
gear oil to ruin the clutch assy.. The new slave cylinder may be bad, =
but how can you tell? A new rear seal will cost $10, slave cylinder $80, =
the clutch assy and throughout bearing has a lifetime warrantee from =
Advance Auto if they will honor it(I kept my receipt). But I running out =
of money. I need all your thoughts so I can fix this truck right without =
throwing away my cash. -- Thanks for all comments(mike edi1.com)
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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 10:46:08 -0700
From: "Keith Christensen"
Subject: FTE Small - B II 's with automatics (Was : Can't find Spout)

>Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 15:03:12 -0400
>From: Dave Slotter
>Subject: Re: FTE Small - Can't find Spout

>But then again, how many people have a BII with an automatic? - -Dave

Me for one.. and 6 out of the 11 or so B II owners that I personally know
have 'em.
Most of these are 'daily drivers' in the Seattle area, so commuting kinda
stacks the odds for automatics. I did the stop'n go deal with a Tojo 5 speed
for 8 years.. 3 clutches, 2 trans rebuilds, and the "damn that red-light on
the hill" got older every day.

If I was to get another one as a 'weekend toy', I'd think about a stick, but
I've done enough 'wheeling' with both sticks and autos that it would
probably be the trans that came in the one I bought. ( trying to locate the
owner of one sitting in a alley that's had BOTH of the pricey rear side
glass panels broken..)

That's not saying that the auto is perfect either! I just shelled out $2400
for a total rebuild on the AO4LD :{ . The trans shop said I was damned
lucky, I got 150K+miles out of it and the case didn't get hosed when the
planetary gears "grenaded". (most of them went TU at or below 80K, according
to the shop)

Word of warning (although it's probably been said here before):
Ford didn't do the best job on the AO4LD ... they let the beancounters
weaken this transmission severely, even though it was a light duty design to
start with.
The planetary gearsets were designed for 6 planets, and Ford skipped every
other one on most of them. That's the major item on mine that did the
damage.. the shafts were worn halfway thru on most of them and when the
weakest ones let go, they spread debris thru the tranny. There are other
items, but this is the major one.

If you do get a rebuild done, spend some extra dough and have the "full
count" gearsets installed. There are also heavier clutch packs and a larger
servo available. There are also mods to the shift body that increase life as
well as improve shifting.. and they sure cut that 'reverse pause' down. I
had at least a 3 second wait to see reverse before, and that don't cut it
hen you are trying to rock your way out of a snowdrift!

Clarey's Transmissions here in Seattle did the work, and they do have a good
reputation. They don't see many of these back after rebuilds. The $2400 did
include a xfer case rear seal and diff inspection/fill, so I don't feel bad
on price. I now have crisp, sharp shifts when pushed hard, and moderate
sharp shifts with easy driving. The OD doesn't 'hunt' anywhere as much on
hills anymore.. that's a definite improvement.

What happened??
I had noticed that the trans was taking a long time to upshift when cold, so
I had planned on taking it in to have a trans service done, and scheduled it
.. a week before the appointment, I drove to work and couldn't back up when
parking!
It would still move forward, but I couldn't get it out of the parking space.
Wanna hear a classic mind-fart??
Clarey's is only two blocks from work, so I walked up there and bummed a
floor jack to "pull it back' to get out of the parking spot. I drove it up
to the shop, and then remembered that all I had to do was stick the transfer
case in neutral!
Dragging that 200 pound floor jack down the street was no fun!

... Now back to the "Speedometer Red Mark' fiasco...

Keith Christensen.. 88 B II that's not been cheap lately..











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Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 12:58:29 -0500
From: "Riley, Bill"
Subject: FTE Small - Bronco-II Auto locking Hubs

I have a 1989 Bronco-II with auto locking hubs. I believe the auto hubs are
toast. How can I check them to be sure? New auto hubs cost around $320
each. Does anyone know of a rebuild kit? Are there any problems with
converting to manual hubs? Would I order the manual hubs from Ford, or is
there an aftermarket provider? I would appreciate any info on this subject.

Bill
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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 14:10:12 -0500
From: "Strukel, Mike"
Subject: RE: FTE Small - Bronco-II Auto locking Hubs

Replace the auto hubs with manual hubs. Do not get the hubs from Ford.
Instead, buy the hubs from Warn. You should be able to get them for
about $80 per set. The change is fairly easy.


Mike Strukel

> -----Original Message-----
> From:Riley, Bill [SMTP:briley icc.state.il.us]
> Sent:Thursday, May 13, 1999 12:58 PM
> To:'small-list ford-trucks.com'
> Subject:FTE Small - Bronco-II Auto locking Hubs
>
> I have a 1989 Bronco-II with auto locking hubs. I believe the auto hubs
> are
> toast. How can I check them to be sure? New auto hubs cost around $320
> each. Does anyone know of a rebuild kit? Are there any problems with
> converting to manual hubs? Would I order the manual hubs from Ford, or is
> there an aftermarket provider? I would appreciate any info on this
> subject.
>
> Bill
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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 12:11:19 -0700
From: rgstein pacbell.net
Subject: FTE Small - That red mark on the speedometer

Matthew Banevich wrote -------------------------------------------

WHO CARES!!!!!! Enough Already!

Me ---------------------------------------------------------------

I agree. I'm sorry I started this.
I'm crying "uncle."

---> "UNCLE!"

Richard

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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 15:38:41 -0500
From: "Herring, Bobby"
Subject: RE: FTE Small - I Need Help with Drive train problems

Did the pressure plate springs look intact? These will sometimes break and
pieces can get caught between the pressure plate and the clutch disk.
Bobby Herring

- -----Original Message-----
From: Mike Peacock [mailto:mike edi1.com]
Sent: Thursday, May 13, 1999 12:39 PM
To: 'Ford List'
Subject: FTE Small - I Need Help with Drive train problems


About 6 months ago, my '86 BroncoII started making a scraping sound while
the Trans was in neutral and the clutch was out. I thought it was the input
shaft(Trans, 5-speed) bearing going bad but did not have the money to fix
it.
Three months ago the Trans would not shift. I replaced the clutch, throw-out
bearing, slave cylinder and pilot bearing as well as turning down the
flywheel. The truck ran fine for a while though it still had the scraping
sound I assumed was the input bearing. About a month ago I started hearing
pops and scrapes in 1,2,3,5 gears. Again I thought it was the Trans
bearings. Because I could not afford $1500 to have someone else do it, I
rebuilt the Trans myself. Last night I pulled the clutch assy. to get to the
pilot bearing to replace it again. To my surprise the clutch disk, clutch,
and flywheel were scored badly. What could have eaten up the new parts so
quick? The system is hydraulic, so I assume it's self adjusting. It actually
looks as if the clutch was partially engaged all the time to cause the
scoring. The rear main seal is leaking, but not much. The input shaft
bearing was worn and perhaps it damaged the front Trans seal, but I doubt
that would have spit enough gear oil to ruin the clutch assy.. The new slave
cylinder may be bad, but how can you tell? A new rear seal will cost $10,
slave cylinder $80, the clutch assy and throughout bearing has a lifetime
warrantee from Advance Auto if they will honor it(I kept my receipt). But I
running out of money. I need all your thoughts so I can fix this truck right
without throwing away my cash. -- Thanks for all comments(mike edi1.com)
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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 08:29:28 -0700
From: "Pete Lawless"
Subject: FTE Small - RE: Posi Trac question...

Joe Mitchell wrote:
>Once again, I have a question.... On my 91 Ranger 2wd 4 cyl, sometimes
>I see 2 tire marks after...."accelerating" and sometimes one. I'm
>pretty sure I don't have posi trac, or even a locking diff., unless
>one of the two options was standard in that year

The axle code on the door jam can tell you (when decoded) what came stock
on your vehicle. Of course if you're not the original owner.... who knows
what has been done to it? Lockers were never a factory option on Rangers,
but limited slip (posi) diff's are. The easiest way to tell is to jack up
the rear with both tires off the ground. Spin one side, if the other tire
spins in the oposite direction, you have an "open" differential or possibly
a severly worn limited slip. If it spins in same direction, you have a
limited slip or possibly a locker (but most likely not.) To test for a
locker stop the tire abruptly, if the oposite tire continues to spin a bit,
you've got an LS. If, however, it also stops abruptly, its a locker.

Hope that helps.

Later..... Pete
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Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 18:42:16 -0700
From: JJ Thomas
Subject: Re: FTE Small - That red mark on the speedometer

ya know, I don't know which is worst; the time the thread is taking to die
out, or all the "enough already" postings...



At 12:11 05/13/99 -0700, you wrote:
>Matthew Banevich wrote -------------------------------------------
>
>WHO CARES!!!!!! Enough Already!
>
>Me ---------------------------------------------------------------
>
>I agree. I'm sorry I started this.
>I'm crying "uncle."
>
> ---> "UNCLE!"
>
>Richard
>
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Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 22:24:08 -0400
From: Tim Turner
Subject: Re: AW: FTE Small - That red mark on the speedometer

"Ucen, Thomas" wrote:
>
> My Aerostar is a '93. It has the red mark at 55.

A left over from earlier laws and asinine IMHO. I suppose it was to
keep the NHTSA happy.

> The overdrive kicks in much
> earlier though, depending on the acceleration, between 40 and 50 mph.

Probably around 37 MPH in easy conditions; that's the average for Ford &
GM.

> when accelerating real hard, it kicks in later. At 40 mph the rpm is between
> 1700 and 1800. When accelerating just slightly at this point, the
> transmission sometimes starts kicking badly trying to determine whether to
> upshift or not.

Called "chuggle" for some reason, but it's common. I'd suggest using
"D" for around town driving rather than the "OD" If you have a 'good'
dealer in your area there might be a re calibrated computer for your
vehicle that would solve the problem by changing the parameters needed
for OD but unless it's free I'd pass!

> Therefore I always took the red mark for a general
> speedlimit hint. German cars have such markings at 50 km/h and sometimes
> also at 30 km/h although no one really drives at such speeds.

Got weird marks on the speedometer of my 85 B-II also; seem to have no
real correlation to anything either. :-)

Tim
>
> Tom
> Munich, Germany
> 1993 Aerostar Ext. 3.0L
>
> > -----Ursprngliche Nachricht-----
> > Von: rgstein pacbell.net [SMTP:rgstein pacbell.net]
> > Gesendet am: Mittwoch, 12. Mai 1999 09:21
> > An: small-list ford-trucks.com
> > Betreff: FTE Small - That red mark on the speedometer
> >
> > Ding wrote ------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Its absouletly 100% positivly marked for the national speed
> > limit......no lockup no this no that just for speed limit....Not every
> > car
> > locks up at the same speed now do they.......so obviously that can't be
> > the
> > reason........ding
> >
> > Well, let's see:
> > 1. My Aerostar is a '92. I believe that the National Speed Limit was
> > abandoned before that.
> > 2. Ford completely redesigned the Aerostar dashboard (and a few other
> > things) for '92. Thus, it would seem that if the National Speed Limit
> > had been dropped before '92, they'd have dropped it from the dashboard
> > by then.
> > 3. Yup. All cars wouldn't lock up at the same speed, but all Aerostars
> > would: they always used the same automatic transmission, and in all
> > models. So, what I come up with is that that's where the overdrive
> > kicks in, which it does in my vehicle as sure as taxes.
> >
> > Richard
> >
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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 22:34:37 -0400
From: Tim Turner
Subject: Re: FTE Small - 98 ranger questions

Randy Collins wrote:

> Another question concerning torsion bar suspension: I know you can lower a
> vehicle via the torsion bars, but could you safely lift a vehicle, say an
> inch or so?

Safely yes; but caster/camber/toe will change and tires will wear just
as lowering will.

If not, what's the best way to get a little lift in the front?

Traditional ways such as buying a body or suspension lift and having the
alignment done after the install. You MIGHT be able to get the lift you
want with the bars and a realignment though. find a good shop in your
area that's willing to try it.

Tim
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Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 22:58:56 -0400
From: Tim Turner
Subject: Re: FTE Small - B II 's with automatics (Was : Can't find Spout)

Keith Christensen wrote:
>
> >Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 15:03:12 -0400
> >From: Dave Slotter
> >Subject: Re: FTE Small - Can't find Spout
>
> >But then again, how many people have a BII with an automatic? - -Dave

Too many.. Most I see at the shop. (But then the hard core people I
dont see often!)

>
> Me for one.. and 6 out of the 11 or so B II owners that I personally know
> have 'em.
> Most of these are 'daily drivers' in the Seattle area, so commuting kinda
> stacks the odds for automatics.

Doesn't Seattle get snow a bunch? I'd expect (want!) a manual for those
conditions.

> I did the stop'n go deal with a Tojo 5 speed
> for 8 years.. 3 clutches, 2 trans rebuilds, and the "damn that red-light on
> the hill" got older every day.

7 Miles to work and 12 stop lights with usually 8 reds on average..
I'll take my 5 speed any day over an auto. Doing the work yourself you
can go through a bunch of clutches for the price of one rebuild of an
auto.

>
> If I was to get another one as a 'weekend toy', I'd think about a stick, but
> I've done enough 'wheeling' with both sticks and autos that it would
> probably be the trans that came in the one I bought.

True.. but I spent the extra month to find a 5 speed. ;-) I was
*very* happy that it had no power options or automatic hubs either.
Since I fix those 'options' all the time and see stuck 4x4s from simple
failures of the 'power' crap on a daily basis I dont want it!

> ( trying to locate the
> owner of one sitting in a alley that's had BOTH of the pricey rear side
> glass panels broken..)

Even one is almost grounds for totaling one as old as my '85. ;-)

> Dragging that 200 pound floor jack down the street was no fun!
>
> ... Now back to the "Speedometer Red Mark' fiasco...

Or on to the auto/manual war..

Tim
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Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 23:09:39 -0400
From: Tim Turner
Subject: Re: FTE Small - Bronco-II Auto locking Hubs

"Riley, Bill" wrote:
>
> I have a 1989 Bronco-II with auto locking hubs. I believe the auto hubs are
> toast.

As Mike said said; get *real* hubs from Warn or Superwinch. Sure you'll
have to engage them manually but they'll be reliable and long lasting.

Tim
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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 23:17:53 -0400
From: Tim Turner
Subject: Re: FTE Small - Can't find Spout

Dave Slotter wrote:
>

> >is 10 BTDC---------Good luck

Not ATDC and make SURE the spout is disconnected else you'll be some
8-14 low and it;ll run like pure crap. If all else fails with spout
connected it's around 20-22 BTDC at idle.

>
> Just keep in mind that timing is different for different vehicles
> (manual versus automatic transmissions for example).

Actually I can't think of a Ford with EEC-IV that isn't 10 BTDC from '85
to '93. Seems to be a standard with the spout disconnected.

TT
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Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 22:36:44 -0500
From: "SPECTRE"
Subject: Fw: FTE Small - B II 's with automatics (Was : Can't find Spout)

- ----- Original Message ----- > > >Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 15:03:12 -0400
> > >From: Dave Slotter
> > >Subject: Re: FTE Small - Can't find Spout
> >
> > >But then again, how many people have a BII with an automatic? - -Dave

I've got a '84
( and yes I had to drop a used tranny in a coupla' months back )
I still love the ole' thing.
( although the $300 '82 F-250 I just bought has a 4-speed )

SPECTRE

IF YOU CANT DAZZLE THEM WITH BRILLIANCE,
RIDDLE THEM WITH BULLETS.

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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 23:51:01 -0400
From: Tim Turner
Subject: Re: FTE Small - Door cracks

rgstein pacbell.net wrote:
>
> Alan wrote ------------------------------------------------------
> It's amazing to me that they can make something like a power
> window which won't last the life of the vehicle.

It's a $$ making accessory at the time of purchase. It's not needed for
the actual functioning of the vehicle and gets low priority for
reliability and makes additional revenue when it goes bad. Power
accessories are always one of the first things to go and I'm amazed
that people want them!

>
> Mine chatter coming down (yes, it was sorta fixed by the dealer)
> simply because there is a loose connection between the drive
> mechanism and the window. It's apparently designed that way for
> some mysterious reason, but it's really, dare I say it, 'STUPID'.

No.. It was designed for manual operation and the motor was grafted on
for the lazy. A good motor can deflect the door 1/4" or more at the
stop; I doubt you or I would put *that* much force on the handle every
time the window was raised or lowered.

>
> My reply --------------------------------------------------------
>
> Yup. I dare say it too: Ford's attitude toward their customers is
> indeed embodied in stupid engineering. Dare I say, "Contemptuous?"

Go to http:\aircondition.com and look for the thread titled "GM bought
my vehicle back" in the questions and opinions forum if you want to see
a real nightmare.

>
> Frankly, I initially found the failures and poor design in my Aerostar
> shocking. Puzzling when I consider that the company damages their
> long-term reputation by selling expensive-to-maintain products. I
> almost thought of running to the junkyard and trying to buy back my old
> Toyota Corona. If I were to list all the stupid design flaws and cheap
> junky parts on my Aerostar, I'd be writing all day, and many of you
> would be sick of reading it.

Or nodding heads.. I'd probably take a A'star over an Astro but wouldnt
want either one.. now the Windstar is mostly Nissan. That's at least
3 steps back in my opinion.

> When the company respects me enough to spend the lousy buck that it
> would have cost them to put drain plugs on the torque converter and
> transmission pan, I may consider buying another Ford.

Nobody has one on the converter anymore.. sadly only the Japanese 'may'
have one on the pan but it's unusual.

> But the burden of
> proof is on their shoulders, not mine. They have to prove to me that
> they have designed their vehicle so that components can be replaced
> without enormous difficulty and expense caused by obstructed access.

Not gonna happen. The engineers don't give a damn about the contortions
you or I have to go through for service. All the mini-vans besides
Chrysler are miserable to work on and the new 'cab forward' Chry's suck
too.

>
> How many $2,000 repair bills have had to be absorbed by their customers
> becuase of this stinginess? But I'm not counting on it from a company
> that, I'm afraid, may still maintain too much of the mindset that
> brought us the exploding Pintos.

Or GM with it's outside mounted saddle tanks on the older trucks. Both
deny a problem..

Tim
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Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 23:53:12 -0400
From: Tim Turner
Subject: Re: FTE Small - For all of those complaining about FoMoCo

Stephen Bozzone wrote:
>
> The bottom line with owner satisfaction is that it varies from case to
> case.. sometimes you luck out and get a good product, whereas someone else
> will have countless problems with the same product.
>
>

Usually works out to owner care.

TT
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Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 21:53:08 -0700
From: "Alan Wilson"
Subject: Re: FTE Small - That red mark on the speedometer

There's only been two posts, JJ... Gee!

JJ Thomas wrote:

> ya know, I don't know which is worst; the time the thread is taking to die
> out, or all the "enough already" postings...
>
>
>
> At 12:11 05/13/99 -0700, you wrote:
> >Matthew Banevich wrote -------------------------------------------
> >
> >WHO CARES!!!!!! Enough Already!
> >
> >Me ---------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >I agree. I'm sorry I started this.
> >I'm crying "uncle."
> >
> > ---> "UNCLE!"
> >
> >Richard
> >
> >== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
>
> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

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Alan Wilson - Wilshire Associates, (310) 451-3051 x3750
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== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 09:48:33 +0200
From: "Ucen, Thomas"
Subject: FTE Small - AW: tranny chuggle (was: red mark...)

> -----Urspr=FCngliche Nachricht-----
> Von:Tim Turner [SMTP:manic1 bellsouth.net]
> Gesendet am:Freitag, 14. Mai 1999 04:24
> An:small-list ford-trucks.com
> Betreff:Re: AW: FTE Small - That red mark on the speedometer
>=20
>=20
>=20
> "Ucen, Thomas" wrote:
> > when accelerating real hard, it kicks in later. At 40 mph the rpm =
is
> between
> > 1700 and 1800. When accelerating just slightly at this point, the
> > transmission sometimes starts kicking badly trying to determine =....

---

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