small-list-digest Saturday, July 25 1998 Volume 02 : Number 207



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Ford Truck Enthusiasts - Ranger, Explorer, Bronco 2 and Aerostar
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In this issue:

Re: FTE Small - A/C Performance Questions
re: FTE Small -RE- A/C Performance Questions
Re: FTE Small - Re Alan Wilson
FTE Small - re: Buzzer (was: Re Alan Wilson)
FTE Small - Re: '97 explorer - transmitter keypad - how to program ?
Re: FTE Small - A/C Performance Questions
re: FTE Small -RE- A/C Performance Questions
Re: FTE Small - A/C Performance Questions
FTE Small - Furthur on A/C Performance
Re: FTE Small - Furthur on A/C Performance

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Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 08:45:51 -0700
From: "Tim J. Clevenger"
Subject: Re: FTE Small - A/C Performance Questions

>From my understanding, it takes more R-134a to get the same cooling =
power as R-12. If your system was designed to take R-134a, it probably =
cools as well because it contains more refrigerant than the equivalent =
A/C. The problem is retrofitting existing R-12 systems. Because they =
hold less refrigerant, they have less cooling power once converted to =
R-134a. (Or, maybe it's the same amount of refrigerant and a more =
powerful compressor?)

Anybody have some real numbers to confirm or refute this?

Regards,

Tim Clevenger
90 Nissan 240SX SE
86 Ford Ranger
86 Honda Helix

- ----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 08:02:21 -0400
From: "Bob Leifer"
Subject: Re: FTE Small - A/C Performance Questions

sorry in advance for this long message, but I don't often reply, so =
maybe I
just got carried away.

My '97 3.0 Liter Ranger XLT has no trouble AT ALL keeping up with the =
very
hot days we have been going through with the AC not on Max. If it's been
sitting in the sun for a long time, using Max will cool it down faster =
(once
the big heat build up is removed and it just recycles the air) In fact, =
If I
keep it on Max too long, I get too cold in the truck! I put it on =
regular
AC, and even have to turn the blower speed down. I don't see any big
difference in the R134a's performance in this truck or my wife's '98 =
Mazda
626 compared to the performance of the old R12. There may be a =
measurable
difference with instrumentation, but these new vehicles seem to have
properly designed AC systems. Prior to getting the '97 Ranger, I had =
heard
that the R134a system was poor, but was pleasantly surprised to find =
that is
not true. Also, although I do feel a difference in acceleration with the =
AC
on, it is not that significant that I would want to turn it off every =
time I
need to accelerate! My ranger has the 4 speed automatic by the way.
Charging an AC system is easy, but getting the right amount of "Freon" =
in
really requires an AC Gauge manifold to measure the suction lines =
pressure.
I suppose you could do it by "feel" but I would hesitate. I have always =
used
the gauges in the past when it was necessary to charge an AC system.
Overcharging it could damage something


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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 08:48:40 -0700
From: "Tim J. Clevenger"
Subject: re: FTE Small -RE- A/C Performance Questions

You might want to check your owner's manual about manually turning off =
the A/C. I know that on my parents' 92 Aerostar, the compressor =
automatically disengages when you floor it, and your truck may do the =
same.

90 Nissan 240SX SE (4-banger, hardly affected at all by A/C)
86 Ford Ranger 2.3L (glad it doesn't have A/C)
86 Honda Helix (uh, well, convertible, I guess)

- ------------------------------

Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 08:20:56, -0500
From: KNBD87D prodigy.com (MR JOSH J TENNEY)
Subject: FTE Small -RE- A/C Performance Questions



If you were driving a four banger with air (I've had a '95 2.3L=20
Ranger) then you are going at turtle speed. A 1990 2.9L I had before=20
the '95 also was really affected by the AC, but my 4.0L now isn't too=20
bad. During crazy traffic I tend to turn it off to scoot up the=20
highway ramps to hit 65-70, but usually its not needed.


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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 09:03:31 -0700
From: "Alan Wilson"
Subject: Re: FTE Small - Re Alan Wilson

At 09:05 PM 7/23/98 -0400, you wrote:
> Alan Wilson wrote: You're probably one of those guys that leave the
>passenger side air-bag in the "off" position too...some people...:)
>Alan Wilson
>
>
> You missed the point Alan.. I wear the seatbelt, just don't like the
>beeping at various times (like when the keys are in the ignition and the
>door is opened). F.Y.I. When I ask a question I am looking for an
>intelligent response, in case you don't know what that is please read
>the letter from Mr. Hoffman.
>
- ---------

If you cannot take a joke, than ignore the message.
Alan Wilson


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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 08:56:55 -0700
From: "Tim J. Clevenger"
Subject: FTE Small - re: Buzzer (was: Re Alan Wilson)

The plug connected to the buzzer (which in the '86 is right behind the =
glove compartment) appears to have several pins, which come from the =
ignition switch, headlight switch, door switches, etc. to cause it to =
buzz for whatever reason. I'm sure that with a continuity meter and a =
little detective work, you could probably find a way to disable the door =
switch and seatbelt parts of the connector without affecting your =
headlight buzzer. (In my case, there was no headlight buzzer, and I =
never leave the keys in the ignition, [knock on wood] so I just =
unplugged the buzzer and left it in there.)

Regards,

Tim Clevenger
90 Nissan 240SX SE
86 Ford Ranger 2WD with no buzzer
86 Honda Helix

- ------------------------------

Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 21:05:40 -0400
From: Ken Morrill
Subject: FTE Small - Re Alan Wilson

You missed the point Alan.. I wear the seatbelt, just don't like the
beeping at various times (like when the keys are in the ignition and the
door is opened). F.Y.I. When I ask a question I am looking for an
intelligent response, in case you don't know what that is please read
the letter from Mr. Hoffman.


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Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 19:11:10 +0100
From: Nick G Moulsdale
Subject: FTE Small - Re: '97 explorer - transmitter keypad - how to program ?

I have a '97 explorer, love it, but came pre-owned from Ford (Ford
Direct) with only one set keys. Key set is electronic xmitter marked

MPT 1340
Model RK112
G108
511D
FW
ROBERT BOSCH GmbH

My dealer got a new set of keys, all OK, and a second xmitter. He
cannot program xmitter. He has given me the unprogrammed xmitter in
disgust and left it to me. Yes I know I should go back to him, but
its been 4 weeks already........etc

Is there any way I can do it? I have original xmitter, vehicle,
Chiltern Manual and a reasonable brain ........(der I think.......).

Any ideas or do i need some fancy piece of kit ?

Thanks for any help

Nick Moulsdale Harrogate UK 60 degrees raining, no summer yet,
weekend beckons, dinner calls.
nick.moul zetnet.co.uk

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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 12:16:39 -0700 (PDT)
From: Bill Ciocco
Subject: Re: FTE Small - A/C Performance Questions

I don't have any numbers, but I had mine converted while I was living
in FL and it sure did seem to cool alot better. On the other hand, I
hear that it does not work as well in some of the MOPAR systems. A
reputable A/C shop should be able to tell you how it will do in your
vehicle.



- ---"Tim J. Clevenger" wrote:
>
> From my understanding, it takes more R-134a to get the same cooling
power as R-12. If your system was designed to take R-134a, it
probably cools as well because it contains more refrigerant than the
equivalent A/C. The problem is retrofitting existing R-12 systems.
Because they hold less refrigerant, they have less cooling power once
converted to R-134a. (Or, maybe it's the same amount of refrigerant
and a more powerful compressor?)
>
> Anybody have some real numbers to confirm or refute this?
>
> Regards,
>
> Tim Clevenger
> 90 Nissan 240SX SE
> 86 Ford Ranger
> 86 Honda Helix
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 08:02:21 -0400
> From: "Bob Leifer"
> Subject: Re: FTE Small - A/C Performance Questions
>
> sorry in advance for this long message, but I don't often reply, so
maybe I
> just got carried away.
>
> My '97 3.0 Liter Ranger XLT has no trouble AT ALL keeping up with
the very
> hot days we have been going through with the AC not on Max. If it's
been
> sitting in the sun for a long time, using Max will cool it down
faster (once
> the big heat build up is removed and it just recycles the air) In
fact, If I
> keep it on Max too long, I get too cold in the truck! I put it on
regular
> AC, and even have to turn the blower speed down. I don't see any big
> difference in the R134a's performance in this truck or my wife's '98
Mazda
> 626 compared to the performance of the old R12. There may be a
measurable
> difference with instrumentation, but these new vehicles seem to have
> properly designed AC systems. Prior to getting the '97 Ranger, I had
heard
> that the R134a system was poor, but was pleasantly surprised to find
that is
> not true. Also, although I do feel a difference in acceleration with
the AC
> on, it is not that significant that I would want to turn it off
every time I
> need to accelerate! My ranger has the 4 speed automatic by the way.
> Charging an AC system is easy, but getting the right amount of
"Freon" in
> really requires an AC Gauge manifold to measure the suction lines
pressure.
> I suppose you could do it by "feel" but I would hesitate. I have
always used
> the gauges in the past when it was necessary to charge an AC system.
> Overcharging it could damage something
>
>
> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
>

_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?

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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 15:59:21 -0400
From: Geoffrey Hoffman
Subject: re: FTE Small -RE- A/C Performance Questions

At 11:48 AM -0400 7/24/98, Tim J. Clevenger wrote:
>You might want to check your owner's manual about manually turning off the
>A/C. I know that on my parents' 92 Aerostar, the compressor automatically
>disengages when you floor it, and your truck may do the same.

plus, if you have a way to get past article for popular electronics, there
are actually plans on how to build a device that will do it. it does it by
hooking a vacuum sensor up to the intake, and it cuts out the compressor
when you floor it. it was several months ago, and the cover (somewhat
humorously) shows the dash of a car sucking dollars bills into it.....

+-----------------------------------------------------------+
Geoffrey Hoffman http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.pobox.com/~hoffy/
ICQ: 10113446 gch2 cornell.edu
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 15:59:53 -0400
From: Geoffrey Hoffman
Subject: Re: FTE Small - A/C Performance Questions

At 11:45 AM -0400 7/24/98, Tim J. Clevenger wrote:
>>From my understanding, it takes more R-134a to get the same cooling power
>>as R-12. If your system was designed to take R-134a, it probably cools
>>as well because it contains more refrigerant than the equivalent A/C.
>>The problem is retrofitting existing R-12 systems. Because they hold
>>less refrigerant, they have less cooling power once converted to R-134a.
>>(Or, maybe it's the same amount of refrigerant and a more powerful
>>compressor?)
>
>Anybody have some real numbers to confirm or refute this?

There is actually an article in the recent popular mechanics (forgot which
one, but the one with the Nascars on it) about house air-conditioners, and
it says that to get the R-134a to work the same, it needs to work at a
higher pressure, but it also says that this tends to make them a little
_more_ efficient, at least from a thermo point of view.
+-----------------------------------------------------------+
Geoffrey Hoffman http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.pobox.com/~hoffy/
ICQ: 10113446 gch2 cornell.edu
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 20:08:50 -0400
From: "Anthony Rifici"
Subject: FTE Small - Furthur on A/C Performance

First, thanks everybody for your response, it is greatly appreciated.
Also, sorry about another long post.

Yesterday, I made an attempt to run through some of the algorithms in
the Chiltons and Haynes manual on diagnosing the systems state of charge. I
had some interesting results. One test was to feel the coolant lines
entering and leaving the compressor. The manual says one should be cool and
the other should be cooler (after several minutes of running). The top line
was cool and the bottom was burning hot. However, the bottom runs close to
the exhaust manifold and is insulated, so I might just be feeling the effect
of the exhaust on the insulation. Although it is still burning hot for the
entire length of the line, even away from the manifold.

I was running the truck on MAX A/C with the windows open on the coldest
setting (truck was already warmed up). The compressor would disengage and
engage every so often, but more sparatic than cycling. I thought that at
this setting with a hot interior, the compressor wouldn't disengage unless I
was at wide open throttle. I also found that the compressor would disengage
if I increased engine speed and re-engage when I decreased or kept engine
speed constant. I was slowly ramping up engine speed and the compressor
would disengage at 1300 and re-engage after I let up on the gas. I think
this is also true if I was increasing engine speed from a different RPM than
idle. This is probably what causes my driveability problems. The stumbling
I described is probably caused when the engine speed drops as the compressor
engages when I let up on the gas to shift. Then I am letting go of the
clutch and putting in the gear at a lower RPM than I anticipated (RPMs
dropped quicker than I am used too).

I should probably reiterate that my A/C does work and it does cool the
truck down, it is just that I think it should be doing it faster or keeping
up better. I have cold air coming out of the vents, but it is not frigid.
I am typically using A/C on my 50 mile drive home from work. I leave all
the windows open until I am up to speed on the freeway and then close them
and turn on the A/C.

Ideas?

More info:
-The truck was originally equipped w/ R134a and the A/C system
was never modified.
-The thermostat is not stuck closed, I didn't check to see if it
was stuck open.
-I have a 4.0L V6, 45,000 miles.
-One reason for not wanting to run it on MAX all the time is
that I don't want to listen to the blower forcing air through my vents at
full speed.

Thanks again,
Tony
'94 Ranger Supercab, 4.0L, 5-Speed


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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 19:32:20 -0500
From: Mike Fisher
Subject: Re: FTE Small - Furthur on A/C Performance

Anthony,

I do not know why the manual said one line should be cool and the other cooler.
The cold line is the low pressure return coming back from the evaporator coil,
and the hot one is the compressed gas exiting the compressor going to the dryer,
then the expansion valve and evaporator. This is exactly as it should be.

If your compressor seems to be cycling quite often, and also seems not to be
cooling as much as it should, it probably is low on refrigerant.

Mike Fisher
'97 AWD Mountaineer

Anthony Rifici wrote:

> Yesterday, I made an attempt to run through some of the algorithms in
> the Chiltons and Haynes manual on diagnosing the systems state of charge. I
> had some interesting results. One test was to feel the coolant lines
> entering and leaving the compressor. The manual says one should be cool and
> the other should be cooler (after several minutes of running). The top line
> was cool and the bottom was burning hot. However, the bottom runs close to....

---

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