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small-list Digest Thu, 18 May 2000 Volume: 2000 Issue: 071

In This Issue:
AO4LD Fluid loss-- Any thoughts (88 B II)
AW: Re: A/C & R-12 Vs. R-134a Vs. others.
95 Explorer Front End Alignment
Re: 95 Explorer Front End Alignment
Re: 95 Explorer Front End Alignment
Aerostar Air Conditioner
Re: AO4LD Fluid loss-- Any thoughts (88 B II)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Keith Christensen" kendra.com>
Subject: AO4LD Fluid loss-- Any thoughts (88 B II)
Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 22:02:34 -0700

Please pre-excuse me if this gets posted multiple times.. M$
LookOut Eggspress is hosed on this machine. (Not a virus-- just a
bad beta of IE/OE 5.5).

History:
About 7K miles on a fresh tranny rebuild by a good shop (yes, I have
the full 6 planet gears in each set -- major middle finger salute to
the FoMoCo beancounters involved in *that * 3-gear fiasco!)

It's never leaked after the rebuild until after an episode this
weekend. Now we *can't* duplicate the leak!

What happened:
I had to get a dose of "low range", went up to some fairly ragged
mountain powerline right-of-way that I do have legal access to..
(employee discount??) .

While going up one rocky chute, I knocked loose a medicine-ball
sized and shaped rock that got caught under the center crossmember
as it rolled.. threw me back about 2 feet as we 'temporarily
hi-centered' over it.. (all wheels got air) . When same damned rock
fell into "center ditch" (best way I can explain it w/o picture),
all wheels grabbed traction HARD! The engine slapped the motor
mounts to the max on both sides as we touched down.

Everything seemed OK afterwards, but decided to not repeat the
chute going downhill so went uphill to another known FS road
crossing and head back to the barn.

While getting back to civilization, I noticed a definite miss about
the same time I smelled ugly smoke.. above impact knocked loose a
plug wire that fell on exhaust manifold and caught fire! (so much
for hi-temp silicone wires... )

Played guessing games on running on 5 cyls.. is raw fuel that eats
O2 sensors/cats worse on idle on compression downhill for the 7
miles back down to main road..?? (use brakes or engine
compression??)

Add another 20 miles to a NAPA store (Info Item : North Bend WA
NAPA is open on SUNDAYS!) to get a plug wire. I checked the vitals,
all fluids OK .

Another 50 miles in mixed 80+mph down to dead-halt Seattle weekend
traf^h^h^havoc getting home via I5/405 and my own set of sneak
routes around the bottlenecks..

One lousy mile from home; it wouldn't take off from a stoplight! It
hadn't shown any slippage before that at all. Turned on the 4ways,
popped hood, pulled tranny dipstick ..
BONE DRY !! The guy behind me said it was dripping(drooling?)
heavily for the last 2 miles!

I got a push-bar assist from the local police to get it out of
traffic-block, then got a case of ATF and refilled it to get home
(took 5 quarts).

I put it up on the ramps to check it out..
NO fluid drips from anywhere on the autotrans itself, what fluid
trails I could find were alongside the engine where the cooler lines
are routed, but couldn't find any damage to them. The rubber
flexhoses to the coils in the radiator were dry, as was the bottom
of the radiator. ! I'm stumped !!

Took it to the tranny shop Monday (Plug -- Clarey's Transmission in
North Seattle is GOOD! 9700 Aurora Ave N 206-5220962) to see if they
could find it. They washed the area and drive the pi** out of it,
then dyed and blacklighted to find a leak.. no luck. Now they are
stumped as well! (this is an old-time business with techs who have
seen everything .. Carl estimates he's seen at least 1000 AO4LD's
himself! )

Two more days, parking it on cardboard at work and home both..
nothing showing !

Any wild ideas? (PS -- I'm putting 8 quarts of ATF in my "oh-sh*t'
box now.. just in case!)








------------------------------

From: ThomasUcen premiereworld.de
Subject: AW: Re: A/C & R-12 Vs. R-134a Vs. others.
Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 10:58:55 +0200



-----
Tim Turner wrote:


with

As far as I know there is a law that bans the use of R12. I guess it's a
result from the Montreal protocol. The law states that cars that were filled
with R12 could "keep" their filling, however refilling R12 after a certain
date became illegal. as a consequence it sure became unavailable, too.


and

Actually, it was not the spring lock. This was just a &% when it came to
remove the old lines since I did not have the proper tool. No, the flaw is
that on the bottom, the line (hose, not metal) rests on the steering. In
summer, that metal steering (housing??) became very hot and melted the A/C
rubber hose. When I reinstalled the hose I wrapped it with insulation
material and put a clamp around it to allow some distance to the housing.


R-147a)

I never heard of it before either. The US-car shop where I usually buy my
parts recommended it. They said the only system it does not work with is on
Automatic A/C systems of older Cadillacs. The working pressure to R12 is
slightly different and the sensors shut down the system. Most other systems
work with Iseceon. I had no changes in the system, only new oil was added. I
think that's normal, though. The shop claims it's absolutely not necessary
to change anything else.

Tom Ucen
1993 Aerostar Ext. 3.0L




------------------------------

From: Bolte Brent kone.com>
Subject: 95 Explorer Front End Alignment
Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 16:18:52 +0300

I have a question that maybe somebody can help me with. I have a
1995 Explorer XLT 4X4 that is now in the process of destroying its third set
of front tires in 62,000 miles. The front tires start to get very uneven
wear on the inside edge. Normally this also ends up causing a
shake/vibration in the front end when they get worn bad enough. On the
first two sets of tires, I made sure they were rotated and balanced about
every 3000-4000 miles. What I ended up with then was four tires that had
uneven wear on the inside edge and I would end up having to replace all four
when they got bad enough. With this third set, I have not been rotating
them with the back tires so that this way I will only have to replace when
they get worn is the front two, not all four.
This would appear to be an alignment issue to me, but over the last
three years I've been having the front end aligned (which has included ride
height adjustment if needed) every 5-6 months with no real improvement in
the tire wear problem. These alignments were originally done by my local
Ford dealer, but the last two have been done by a local shop that supposedly
specializes in front end alignment and there is still no change in the wear
problem. To me it looks like the camber setting isn't correct ( the top of
front tires are leaning in way too much) which to me would cause the inside
edge on the bottom of the tire (where it contacts the road) to have more of
the weight on it which could cause more wear on that side as I am noticing.
Some things I have noticed with 1995 Explorers in general is that
almost all of them with Goodyear tires on them (like mine came with and
still has) show these same signs of extreme inside edge tire wear, but the
ones with Firestone tires on them do not show any abnormal wear or show very
little. Also, we have an 1997 Explorer that is almost a twin to our 1995
(Goodyear tires and all) and so far it has really not shown any signs of
this tire wear problem (very slight edge wear, but even on both sides).
Does anybody know what could be causing this problem on my 1995 Explorer?
Why do the 1995 Explorers with Goodyear tires seem to show more signs of
this problem than the same vehicles with Firestone tires? What was changed
in the Explorer front suspension between 1995 (the first year they replaced
the twin traction beam with the SLA design) and the 1997 that may have
corrected this problem in the newer Explorers? Any ideas would be
appreciated.

Thanks, Brent Bolte
brent.boltekone.com
This message has been checked by KONE Corporation for the presence of computer viruses

------------------------------

From: "Chris Oostveen" i2k.com>
Subject: Re: 95 Explorer Front End Alignment
Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 09:41:53 -0400

this problem than the same vehicles with Firestone tires? What was changed
in the Explorer front suspension between 1995 (the first year they replaced
the twin traction beam with the SLA design) and the 1997 that may have
corrected this problem in the newer Explorers? Any ideas would be
appreciated.

Brent-

This is an un-educated guess, but it sounds as if the front springs need to
be replaced. Or at the very least inspected a little closer. From my
experience this would indicate a worn spring condition (or weak spring).

Chris


------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 11:58:37 -0400
From: David Cooley bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: 95 Explorer Front End Alignment

Brent,
My 97 EB with the firestones did this in only 3500 miles.
It is the camber adjustment, and if the alignment shop isn't installing the
adjustable camber kit, then they aren't setting camber. Camber comes fixed
by ford and a kit must be installed to adjust it. Since the kit was put on
mine, I have put over 20,000 miles on it and the tires are wearing very
evenly. (though very little).


At 09:18 AM 5/18/00, you wrote:
> I have a question that maybe somebody can help me with. I have a
>1995 Explorer XLT 4X4 that is now in the process of destroying its third set
>of front tires in 62,000 miles. The front tires start to get very uneven
>wear on the inside edge. Normally this also ends up causing a
>shake/vibration in the front end when they get worn bad enough. On the
>first two sets of tires, I made sure they were rotated and balanced about
>every 3000-4000 miles. What I ended up with then was four tires that had
>uneven wear on the inside edge and I would end up having to replace all four
>when they got bad enough. With this third set, I have not been rotating
>them with the back tires so that this way I will only have to replace when
>they get worn is the front two, not all four.
> This would appear to be an alignment issue to me, but over the last
>three years I've been having the front end aligned (which has included ride
>height adjustment if needed) every 5-6 months with no real improvement in
>the tire wear problem. These alignments were originally done by my local
>Ford dealer, but the last two have been done by a local shop that supposedly
>specializes in front end alignment and there is still no change in the wear
>problem. To me it looks like the camber setting isn't correct ( the top of
>front tires are leaning in way too much) which to me would cause the inside
>edge on the bottom of the tire (where it contacts the road) to have more of
>the weight on it which could cause more wear on that side as I am noticing.
> Some things I have noticed with 1995 Explorers in general is that
>almost all of them with Goodyear tires on them (like mine came with and
>still has) show these same signs of extreme inside edge tire wear, but the
>ones with Firestone tires on them do not show any abnormal wear or show very
>little. Also, we have an 1997 Explorer that is almost a twin to our 1995
>(Goodyear tires and all) and so far it has really not shown any signs of
>this tire wear problem (very slight edge wear, but even on both sides).
>Does anybody know what could be causing this problem on my 1995 Explorer?
>Why do the 1995 Explorers with Goodyear tires seem to show more signs of
>this problem than the same vehicles with Firestone tires? What was changed
>in the Explorer front suspension between 1995 (the first year they replaced
>the twin traction beam with the SLA design) and the 1997 that may have
>corrected this problem in the newer Explorers? Any ideas would be
>appreciated.
>
>Thanks, Brent Bolte
>brent.boltekone.com
>This message has been checked by KONE Corporation for the presence of
>computer viruses

===========================================================
David Cooley N5XMT Internet: N5XMTbellsouth.net
Packet: N5XMTKQ4LO.#INT.NC.USA.NA T.A.P.R. Member #7068
We are Borg... Prepare to be assimilated!
===========================================================


------------------------------

From: "Gary Snook" home.com>
Subject: Aerostar Air Conditioner
Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 18:21:17 -0500


Tim;
I have owned 2 Aerostars, a 92 and my curent one (last one - sad to
say) a 97. I have also been the primary driver in 2 others, an 87 and a
different 92. Combined, I probabally have a couple hundred thousand miles
behind the wheel in these vehicles. the 87 and one of the 92's were service
vans and only had front air. They cooled EXCENTLY. On my personal Aeros,
both are/were equiped with rear heat/air. The 97, being R134A cools much
BETTER than the 92 did, but I don't know what changes Ford did to the system
when they upgraded. The 92's leaked, but the 97 seems to hold it's charge
better. The 87 didn't leak that I know of.

AND

I have a 94 Ranger I bought new. Until a few months ago, I did not know the
compressor ran if the heater control was in defrost. It affects my milage,
sucking about 1-2 MPG. I can't figure why Ford put in a compressor switch
(a feature I have ALWAYS liked) and THEN treated us owners like idiots by
having the compressor run during deforst all the while NOT turning on the
pilot lite to even let us know it's on! So, the question is...... What's
the down and dirty or simple way to disconnect this obnixous
feature...........

Thanks,
Gary


> > It cools like crazy. However, it
> > cools so much that the evaporator freezes up to the point where no air
from
> > the fan can pass through. So on longer rides, once in a while, I have to
> > turn the A/C off (to Vent) and wait till the ice melts. The A/C lines
get
> > quite iced up and the water puddle under the parked car is always quite
> > large. But the cooling effect is much better than with R12.
>
>
> I can do that with R-134a or other gasses.. what happened was the
technician
> involved reset the cycling switch too low during the 'non-conversion'. I
had
> one today blowing 28F (at 87F OAT) by going too far. ;-) Look on the
drier
> (passenger side by the firewall) and you'll see a small device with two
wires
> on it; unplug the connector and you'll see a small screw head in the
middle of
> the switch. Turn the switch 1/4 turn clockwise, reconnect and see if the
> freezing goes away; if not keep going in 1/4 turn increments until it
does.
>
> > I wouldn't recommend R134a because a) you have to convert your system
($$$)
>
> Actually... most conversions I do cost LESS than the repair would have if
> staying with R-12 due to the cost of R-12 being some 7 times greater than
> R-134a. I wouldn't suggest converting a system that was working fine just
to
> do it, but when it quits it often makes sense to do so for cost reasons
unless
> it's one of a handfull of vehicles that needs condenser upgrades or
additional
> fan area.
>
> > and b) as Tim mentioned, it won't last.
>
> A) It's molecular structure is smaller and leaks at (guessing) 2-3X the
rate
> R-12 would, but *IF* all is well there aren't any leaks.
>
> B) The high pressure side of the system will be operating some 10-15%
higher
> (assuming it's done right) with the resulting extra load on the compessor.
If
> it's in good shape all is OK, but an 'iffy' compressor might take a dump
from
> the extra pressure.
>
>
> > At the A/C shop last year I talked
> > to owners of quite new cars who already had to get their system refilled
>
> I'm seeing lots of '96s this year and some '97 & '98s already. To some
> defense sytems are a lot smaller than they used to be; 10 years ago 3-4
Lbs
> was common, but now a 2 Lb system is large. (In other words it used to
take a
> Pound to affect cooling, but now a 1/4-1/2 Lb. will.)
>
> > they were not very enthusiastic about the cooling effect.
>
> A system designed for R-134a will equal or exceed R-12 with the exception
of
> the time it takes for the inital cool down of the cabin when operating
> properly. A *properly* converted system will be about the same until
outside
> temperature and humidity get high and then roughly 3-7 degrees (F) higher
than
> R-12. (Hell.. if it's 100F and 100% RH I'm going to like that 70F out the
vent
> better than outside!)
>
> > I don't know
> > whether Iseceon has the same problem with escaping, so far it lasts.
>
> One note would be that R-12 & R-134a are 'single molecule' gasses; most
> substitutes are made of several, (blends) meaning that it changes
composition
> as the various gasses leak out at differing rates (In theory; real world
> results are still pending). Here in the US any substitutes that contain
R-22
> also require replacement of hoses with ones containing a lining (barrier
> hoses).
>
>
> > Comparison: my '79 Buick still has the original R12 filling and the A/C
> > works great!
>
> WOW!!! That's amazing. You got a good one there. :-)
>
> > they're cold in the winter. I already thought about
> > getting a long heater hose and connect it to somewhere in the front and
run
> > it to the 3rd row seat. Would that work? What's the smartest way to do
it?
>
> It could be done but I'd suggest a 12V heater from NAPA or JCW or simillar
> instead. Possibly a roof mounted A/C unit for the rear, but that's a lot
of
> work to install...
>
>
> I retrofit/convert roughly 150 vehicles a year to R-134a and in most cases
> it's cooled acceptably in the hot humid coast of SE NC unless there's been
> other problems with the system. I keep an open mind to other alternatives
but
> so far the OEMs and A/C suppliers only warranty parts used for R-12 or
R-134a
> service so my hands are tied. I've done some work with 'freeze-12' and it
> seems to work well even if (illegally) mixed with R-12. (This is why we
have
> a $1800.00 refrigerant identifier at the shop.. never know WHAT is in
there
> anymore!)
>
>
> Tim



------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 23:33:07 -0400
From: "Theodore D. Mills" martnet.com>
Subject: Re: AO4LD Fluid loss-- Any thoughts (88 B II)

My 85 Ranger story.....
I left a trail up my driveway a few years ago after towing my boat home on
a very hot day.
I just figured I got it real hot and it burped.....

6 months later I'm driving to the beach to open up for the season with a
load of stuff for the house.
I go to change lanes, when I look in the mirror, I see a trail of white smoke.
Where is that coming from? Oh crap! It's me!

Pull over and look under the truck, there's a red niagara falls coming from
the fron of the bellhousing!
Blew the front seal.

At this point, I'm in the middle of nowhere on Rt1 in Frederica Delaware,
and I'm closer to the beach than home, so I go for it.

I got within 5 miles of the house before it stopped.

The wife brought our a gallon of ATF, and that got it to the beach.

I rented a tow dolly and drug it home with my father-in-law's Ranger the
next day....

Just my $.02

Ted


At 22:02 5/17/2000 -0700, you wrote:
>Please pre-excuse me if this gets posted multiple times.. M$
>LookOut Eggspress is hosed on this machine. (Not a virus-- just a
>bad beta of IE/OE 5.5).
>
>History:
>About 7K miles on a fresh tranny rebuild by a good shop (yes, I have
>the full 6 planet gears in each set -- major middle finger salute to
>the FoMoCo beancounters involved in *that * 3-gear fiasco!)
>
>It's never leaked after the rebuild until after an episode this
>weekend. Now we *can't* duplicate the leak!
>
>What happened:
>I had to get a dose of "low range", went up to some fairly ragged
>mountain powerline right-of-way that I do have legal access to..
>(employee discount??) .
>
>While going up one rocky chute, I knocked loose a medicine-ball
>sized and shaped rock that got caught under the center crossmember
>as it rolled.. threw me back about 2 feet as we 'temporarily
>hi-centered' over it.. (all wheels got air) . When same damned rock
>fell into "center ditch" (best way I can explain it w/o picture),
>all wheels grabbed traction HARD! The engine slapped the motor
>mounts to the max on both sides as we touched down.
>
>Everything seemed OK afterwards, but decided to not repeat the
>chute going downhill so went uphill to another known FS road
>crossing and head back to the barn.
>
>While getting back to civilization, I noticed a definite miss about
>the same time I smelled ugly smoke.. above impact knocked loose a
>plug wire that fell on exhaust manifold and caught fire! (so much
>for hi-temp silicone wires... )
>
>Played guessing games on running on 5 cyls.. is raw fuel that eats
>O2 sensors/cats worse on idle on compression downhill for the 7
>miles back down to main road..?? (use brakes or engine
>compression??)
>
>Add another 20 miles to a NAPA store (Info Item : North Bend WA
>NAPA is open on SUNDAYS!) to get a plug wire. I checked the vitals,
>all fluids OK .
>
>Another 50 miles in mixed 80+mph down to dead-halt Seattle weekend
>traf^h^h^havoc getting home via I5/405 and my own set of sneak
>routes around the bottlenecks..
>
>One lousy mile from home; it wouldn't take off from a stoplight! It
>hadn't shown any slippage before that at all. Turned on the 4ways,
>popped hood, pulled tranny dipstick ..
>BONE DRY !! The guy behind me said it was dripping(drooling?)
>heavily for the last 2 miles!
>
>I got a push-bar assist from the local police to get it out of
>traffic-block, then got a case of ATF and refilled it to get home
>(took 5 quarts).
>
>I put it up on the ramps to check it out..
>NO fluid drips from anywhere on the autotrans itself, what fluid
>trails I could find were alongside the engine where the cooler lines
>are routed, but couldn't find any damage to them. The rubber
>flexhoses to the coils in the radiator were dry, as was the bottom
>of the radiator. ! I'm stumped !!
>
>Took it to the tranny shop Monday (Plug -- Clarey's Transmission in
>North Seattle is GOOD! 9700 Aurora Ave N 206-5220962) to see if they
>could find it. They washed the area and drive the pi** out of it,
>then dyed and blacklighted to find a leak.. no luck. Now they are
>stumped as well! (this is an old-time business with techs who have
>seen everything .. Carl estimates he's seen at least 1000 AO4LD's
>himself! )
>
>Two more days, parking it on cardboard at work and home both..
>nothing showing !
>
>Any wild ideas? (PS -- I'm putting 8 quarts of ATF in my "oh-sh*t'
>box now.. just in case!)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>==========================================================
>To unsubscribe, send email to: listarford-trucks.com with
>the words "unsubscribe small-list" in the subject of the
>message.
>
>
"This message brought to you with 100% recycled electrons"
"Just the latest in environmentally friendly technology!"



------------------------------

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