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Received: with LISTAR (v0.128a; list small-list); Tue, 15 Feb 2000 23:45:17 -0500 (EST)
Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 23:45:17 -0500 (EST)
From: Ford Truck Enthusiasts List Server ford-trucks.com>
To: small-list digest users ford-trucks.com>
Reply-to: small-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: small-list Digest V2000 #7
Precedence: bulk

==========================================================
Ford Truck Enthusiasts Small Chassis Truck Mailing List

Visit our web site: http://www.ford-trucks.com

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------------------------------------
small-list Digest Mon, 14 Feb 2000 Volume: 2000 Issue: 007

In This Issue:
Best Deals
"Should I recommend..."
Re: Reliabilty of Ford
Re: Best Deals
Re: Fuel economy problems (was Re: small-list Digest V200
Re: Fuel economy problems (was Re: small-list Digest V200
Re: Best Deals
Re: Fuel economy problems (was Re: small-list
Re: "Yank" Fords in Europe
Re: Best Deals
Re: Best Deals
Re: Best Deals
Re: Best Deals
Re: Best Deals
Re: Best Deals
Re: Best Deals
Re: [Re: Note from a Enthusiast]
Re: [Re: Reccomend a Ranger? Maybe...]
Re: [Should I recommend...] + more
Re: [Re: Reccomend a Ranger? Maybe...]
Re: Reliabilty of Ford
Re: Best Deals

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 23:05:20 -0500
From: Wesley Murphy highland.net>
Subject: Best Deals

I'm getting ready to order a K&N filter (and possibly an computer chip on
down the road) for my 91 Explorer and would like to know if anyone can
recommend a vendor? I would lilke to find someone with good prices and good
service, and would appreciate it very much so if anyone could relate any
experiences.

Thanks in advance,
Wesley Murphy
91 EB Explorer


------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 21:45:13 -0800
From: scott ford-trucks.com>
Subject: "Should I recommend..."

>Anyway, some of you gave me some very good reasons to own Rangers, and
>just about convinced me to buy one myself!

>I like the fact that I can get into it without having
>to twist: I have had back problems. So I also like the rear seats that
>make a bed, and the flat floor: both of these allow me to stretch out >in 6 feet of flat space and rest my back while away from home.

How about a Supercab Ranger with a camper shell? You could put a real or
a air mattress in the back for some comfort.

>So, the question: can I get what I want in an Explorer (or other Ford
>SUV?). I mean, what I need is 6 flat feet in which to stretch out >behind the front seats.

My Explorer is not home right now(And no it's not in the shop)so I can't
measure it,but I don't think there is 6' behind the seats.May have to go
Expdetion/Excursion to get that kind of room.

>How's the handling, ride smoothness? Seats? Reliability? Repairability? >Safety Etc.? Auto transmission? I can do fine with a 2WD version.

We have no complaints about our Explorer.I have put brakes,tires,valve
cover gaskets and a P/S pump on it in 100k miles.It is not real easy to
work on,but what is now days.

------------------------------

From: "Neil Brownlee" offroading.freeserve.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Reliabilty of Ford
Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2000 10:56:35 -0000

Ken,

It was the dealer and Ford UK actually, I tried to get Ford UK to police
their dealer network, but was told point blank where to get off. I was even
told that there was only ONE Ford garage in the UK, and all the others were
franchises and therefore Ford UK did not recognise them as approved
dealerships.....so er, I blame Ford UK (bear in mind that Ford UK is NOT
FoMOCo either...)

Also, I'm subscribed to this list because :-

a. I was and the advice can be applied to a majority of vehciles :)

b. As I stated, I am currently trying to wrap a LR 109" aluminium body
around a rolling Explorer chassis. Of course, all I've got at the mo, is the
donor vehicle (LR) and an Explorer with the top cut off! (The vehicle was in
an accident and the fire service cut all the door posts off! Actually it
looks pretty cool...sort of a giant sports car!! *grin* So I can imagine I'm
going to have some fun removing all the electronic stuff from the engine....

-------------------------------------------------------------

Neil

1978 Land Rover Series III 109" Ex-MOD - 'Harriet'
1981 Land Rover Stage One V8 - 'Henry'
1997 Land Rover Discovery V8i ES - 'Piglet'





------------------------------

From: "Mike Haight" home.com>
Subject: Re: Best Deals
Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 07:35:09 -0500

K&N can be purchased at any local SuperTrack store, if not on hand
they will order it for you. As for the chip, that will depend on what
you want to do with it. You could go for the JET Chip or something
else--I recommend the SuperChips, Inc. and if you go to their web site
then you can check for local dealer(s) in your area.
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.superchips.com

Thank You.
Take Care and Have a Good Day.
CUL8R, Mike

----- Original Message -----
From: "Wesley Murphy" highland.net>
To: ford-trucks.com>
Sent: Monday, February 14, 2000 11:05 PM
Subject: [small-list] Best Deals


> I'm getting ready to order a K&N filter (and possibly an computer
chip on
> down the road) for my 91 Explorer and would like to know if anyone
can
> recommend a vendor? I would lilke to find someone with good prices
and good
> service, and would appreciate it very much so if anyone could
relate any
> experiences.
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Wesley Murphy
> 91 EB Explorer
>
> ==========================================================
> To unsubscribe, send email to: listar ford-trucks.com with
> the words "unsubscribe 61-79-list" in the body of the
> message.
>


------------------------------

From: "Mike Haight" home.com>
Subject: Re: Fuel economy problems (was Re: small-list Digest V200
Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 07:39:02 -0500

Anything to make the engine run more efficient, i.e. cap/rotor, plug
wires, plugs, etc. will net a slight increase/return on gas mileage.
Winter gas does make a slight difference, but also remember that in
the winter you let your car sit idle for a few extra minutes warming
up and that nets you ZERO mileage for your gas. Thus, it is normal to
see a drop of one to two miles per gallon when computing gas mileage
during the winter months.

Thank You.
Take Care and Have a Good Day.
CUL8R, Mike

----- Original Message -----
From: aol.com>
To: ford-trucks.com>
Sent: Monday, February 14, 2000 10:42 PM
Subject: [small-list] Fuel economy problems (was Re: small-list Digest
V2000 #5)


> Recently, I've noticed a slight dip in my '89 Bronco II's fuel
economy. A
> few months ago, I could expect 20-21 mpg in mixed driving--with a
few
> stoplights in town, but pretty much open highway driving the rest of
my 20
> mile commute to work. Now I'm lucky to reach 19 mpg. Btw, my B-2's
got 4WD,
> rebuilt tranny at 145K, with about 185K on the engine.
>
> First of all, I live in Colorado Springs, where ethanol is added to
gas from
> 1 Nov - 28 Feb. Could this be a culprit? Other possibilities are:
incorrect
> installation of the two vacuum lines from the air filter housing
(where is
> each one supposed to go?), need new distro cap and rotor (last
replaced at
> 138K), need to repack bearings, need more fuel efficient tires, etc.
I had a
> tune up and new plugs put in about 3000 miles ago, but it didn't
seem to help
> much.
>
> Any advice on where to start would be appreciated.
>
> Truck on,
> Joe
> ==========================================================
> To unsubscribe, send email to: listar ford-trucks.com with
> the words "unsubscribe 61-79-list" in the body of the
> message.
>


------------------------------

From: "Jeffery G. Conrad" NxTrend.com>
Subject: Re: Fuel economy problems (was Re: small-list Digest V200
Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 08:20:37 -0700

Joe wrote:

Recently, I've noticed a slight dip in my '89 Bronco II's fuel economy. A
few months ago, I could expect 20-21 mpg in mixed driving--with a few
stoplights in town, but pretty much open highway driving the rest of my 20
mile commute to work. Now I'm lucky to reach 19 mpg. Btw, my B-2's got
4WD,
rebuilt tranny at 145K, with about 185K on the engine.

First of all, I live in Colorado Springs, where ethanol is added to gas from

1 Nov - 28 Feb. Could this be a culprit? Other possibilities are:
incorrect
installation of the two vacuum lines from the air filter housing (where is
each one supposed to go?), need new distro cap and rotor (last replaced at
138K), need to repack bearings, need more fuel efficient tires, etc. I had
a
tune up and new plugs put in about 3000 miles ago, but it didn't seem to
help
much.

Any advice on where to start would be appreciated.

Truck on,
Joe

Joe,
I too live in Colorado Springs! I also experience a reduction in mileage
during this period, and it's been that way since they started the oxy-fuels
program over 10 years ago. My cars and truck also idle rougher and spit
alot more water out of the exhuast pipe than on non-oxy gas. Another
culprit is cold weather in general - mileage will often drop slightly in the
winter due to warm-ups, etc. Wait until the program is over (the gas
usually leaves the distribution system about mid-march) and the weather
warms up (won't be long here!) then you should see your mileage improve. If
your mileage is still down by the end of April then you should start looking
into the other things you listed.

Good luck!

Jeff Conrad
jconrad nxtrend.com
95 Ranger XL



------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 12:01:49 -0500
From: David Cooley bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Best Deals

At 11:05 PM 2/14/2000 -0500, you wrote:
>I'm getting ready to order a K&N filter (and possibly an computer chip on
>down the road) for my 91 Explorer and would like to know if anyone can
>recommend a vendor? I would lilke to find someone with good prices and good
>service, and would appreciate it very much so if anyone could relate any
>experiences.


Save shipping charges and try Pepboys, autozone etc. Most of them carry
the K&N for the same or lower prices that mail order vendors do without the
added shipping.


===========================================================
David Cooley N5XMT Internet: N5XMT bellsouth.net
Packet: N5XMT KQ4LO.#INT.NC.USA.NA T.A.P.R. Member #7068
We are Borg... Prepare to be assimilated!
===========================================================


------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 12:02:53 -0500
From: David Cooley bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Fuel economy problems (was Re: small-list

At 10:42 PM 2/14/2000 -0500, you wrote:
>Recently, I've noticed a slight dip in my '89 Bronco II's fuel economy. A
>few months ago, I could expect 20-21 mpg in mixed driving--with a few
>stoplights in town, but pretty much open highway driving the rest of my 20
>mile commute to work. Now I'm lucky to reach 19 mpg. Btw, my B-2's got 4WD,
>rebuilt tranny at 145K, with about 185K on the engine.
>
>First of all, I live in Colorado Springs, where ethanol is added to gas from
>1 Nov - 28 Feb. Could this be a culprit? Other possibilities are: incorrect
>installation of the two vacuum lines from the air filter housing (where is
>each one supposed to go?), need new distro cap and rotor (last replaced at
>138K), need to repack bearings, need more fuel efficient tires, etc. I had a
>tune up and new plugs put in about 3000 miles ago, but it didn't seem to help
>much.


Ethanol is most likely the culprit... O2 sensor richens the mixture to
compensate for the Ethanol.


===========================================================
David Cooley N5XMT Internet: N5XMT bellsouth.net
Packet: N5XMT KQ4LO.#INT.NC.USA.NA T.A.P.R. Member #7068
We are Borg... Prepare to be assimilated!
===========================================================


------------------------------

From: "William Hickey" hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: "Yank" Fords in Europe
Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 10:36:37 PST

Tom,
Well, I'm glad to hear that Ford is doing it right in Germany, but according
to Neil, it sounds like they have a long way to go in the UK.
Regards,
Bill


>From: ThomasUcen premiereworld.de
>Reply-To: small-list ford-trucks.com
>To: small-list ford-trucks.com
>Subject: [small-list] "Yank" Fords in Europe
>Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 09:33:05 +0100
>
>Bill, it's not the way you think.
>In the past ten years, Ford Europe has started to sell US Fords officially
>through their dealer network after having done some modifications on the
>brakes and suspension and partly by installing their own Euro engines. The
>Probe has been on the market for a long time, the "new" Explorer (not the
>old one sharing the Aerostar's platform) is selling pretty well. Some car
>rental agencies have it in stock. The Windstar is also being sold but is
>not
>too popular. Ford has announced to officially sell the Ranger starting with
>this model year. I doubt that the Ford shops lack training or service
>documentation on the vehicles they are supposed to work on. Actually, lots
>of people in the US drive German cars and I think the Mercedes or Audi
>mechanics are as well trained and informed as their German counterparts.
>My local smalltown Ford dealer is very helpful and has already done some
>repairs on my Aerostar. Parts can be obtained through a large regional
>dealership and no-one has a problem with my import. I've had different
>experiences with GM and Chrysler dealers. They were extremely unfriendly
>and
>partly refused to sell me parts since I had not bought the cars from them.
>Although I don't like the European Fords I'd get a "Yank" designed Ford
>anytime again.
>
>Tom Ucen
>1993 Aerostar
>Munich, Germany
>
>
>-----
>Von: William Hickey [mailto:billhickey hotmail.com]
>Gesendet am: Samstag, 12. Februar 2000 22:50
>An: small-list ford-trucks.com
>Betreff: [small-list] Re: Reliabilty of Ford
>
> >-snip-
> > >Ford failed on all counts to satisfy even the most basic rudiments of
> > >customer service.
>Neil,
>I do remember your posts concerning problems with Ford in the UK. I was
>always curious why you even considered purchasing a 'Yank' designed
>Explorer
>
>over there. I assume that Ford doesn't invest much money into their
>service
>
>organization over there. How often do you see an Explorer or Ranger on the
>road ? I have been told that there a few, but our trucks and SUVs are
>certainly not big sellers over there. I would not lay the blame on
>'LandRover' or another British manufacturer if I puchased a 'Brit' designed
>truck over here in the USA and had problems with the 'Yank' dealer
>organization. If I lived over there, I would not buy a Ford vehicle that
>was primarily marketed over here for the same reason why I wouldn't
>purchase
>
>a British designed truck over here ...... lack of service facilities and
>questionable training of the service organization by the parent
>manufacturer.
>
>Regards,
>Bill
>
>==========================================================
>To unsubscribe, send email to: listar ford-trucks.com with
>the words "unsubscribe 61-79-list" in the body of the
>message.
>

______________________________________________________


------------------------------

From: Ray Scheidnes nacm.com>
Subject: Re: Best Deals
Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 10:41:08 -0800

Mike,
Do you currently run a Superchip in a Ranger? I'm curious about chips, and
would like to know why you recommend Superchips. Any other comments from
anyone would also be helpful.
Thanks.

-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Haight [mailto:mhaight1 home.com]
Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2000 4:35 AM
To: small-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: [small-list] Re: Best Deals


K&N can be purchased at any local SuperTrack store, if not on hand
they will order it for you. As for the chip, that will depend on what
you want to do with it. You could go for the JET Chip or something
else--I recommend the SuperChips, Inc. and if you go to their web site
then you can check for local dealer(s) in your area.
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.superchips.com

Thank You.
Take Care and Have a Good Day.
CUL8R, Mike

----- Original Message -----
From: "Wesley Murphy" highland.net>
To: ford-trucks.com>
Sent: Monday, February 14, 2000 11:05 PM
Subject: [small-list] Best Deals


> I'm getting ready to order a K&N filter (and possibly an computer
chip on
> down the road) for my 91 Explorer and would like to know if anyone
can
> recommend a vendor? I would lilke to find someone with good prices
and good
> service, and would appreciate it very much so if anyone could
relate any
> experiences.
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Wesley Murphy
> 91 EB Explorer
>
> ==========================================================
> To unsubscribe, send email to: listar ford-trucks.com with
> the words "unsubscribe 61-79-list" in the body of the
> message.
>

==========================================================
To unsubscribe, send email to: listar ford-trucks.com with
the words "unsubscribe 61-79-list" in the body of the
message.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 14:04:10 -0500
From: David Cooley bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Best Deals

At 10:41 AM 2/15/2000 -0800, you wrote:
>Mike,
>Do you currently run a Superchip in a Ranger? I'm curious about chips, and
>would like to know why you recommend Superchips. Any other comments from
>anyone would also be helpful.
>Thanks.

I'm not sure if Superchips has changed their business ethics, but several
years back, they were a scam. Their "chip" for the Turbo Mitsubishi
eclipse turned out to be a sticker over the stock chip with "Superchips"
written on it, and a brass aquarium air valve to allow higher boost... All
this for $300.00!
A guy on the eclipse mailing list had already removed his stock chip and
read the binary out to see what was done, and possibly "fine tune" what
superchips had done... When he got his somputer back, the bin from the
Superchips chip compared bit for bit identically to the stock chip. Their
President, Peter Wales, then made the comment to the list that the price
was for the "technology superchips invested to determine that raising the
boost was better than burning a chip".
Buyer beware.

===========================================================
David Cooley N5XMT Internet: N5XMT bellsouth.net
Packet: N5XMT KQ4LO.#INT.NC.USA.NA T.A.P.R. Member #7068
We are Borg... Prepare to be assimilated!
===========================================================


------------------------------

From: "Mike Haight" home.com>
Subject: Re: Best Deals
Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 15:24:22 -0500

No I do not have one in my Ranger but I know someone who does and he
swears by it. I also know someone that works in a MotorSports shop
near me and he has installed many of them in Mustangs. I have checked
it out and it is not just a scam, as indicated by another reader. The
website I gave is the one to go to.....I understand there is a
Superchips and there is a SuperChips, Inc. The latter is the web
address that I provided (http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.superchips.com) and you can drill
down through the menu and go to the location that shows and tells
about the installation if you want to see details of it. I do plan to
get one installed this summer.

Thank You.
Take Care and Have a Good Day.
CUL8R, Mike

----- Original Message -----
From: "David Cooley" bellsouth.net>
To: ford-trucks.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2000 2:04 PM
Subject: [small-list] Re: Best Deals


> At 10:41 AM 2/15/2000 -0800, you wrote:
> >Mike,
> >Do you currently run a Superchip in a Ranger? I'm curious about
chips, and
> >would like to know why you recommend Superchips. Any other
comments from
> >anyone would also be helpful.
> >Thanks.
>
> I'm not sure if Superchips has changed their business ethics, but
several
> years back, they were a scam. Their "chip" for the Turbo Mitsubishi
> eclipse turned out to be a sticker over the stock chip with
"Superchips"
> written on it, and a brass aquarium air valve to allow higher
boost... All
> this for $300.00!
> A guy on the eclipse mailing list had already removed his stock chip
and
> read the binary out to see what was done, and possibly "fine tune"
what
> superchips had done... When he got his somputer back, the bin from
the
> Superchips chip compared bit for bit identically to the stock chip.
Their
> President, Peter Wales, then made the comment to the list that the
price
> was for the "technology superchips invested to determine that
raising the
> boost was better than burning a chip".
> Buyer beware.
>
> ===========================================================
> David Cooley N5XMT Internet: N5XMT bellsouth.net
> Packet: N5XMT KQ4LO.#INT.NC.USA.NA T.A.P.R. Member #7068
> We are Borg... Prepare to be assimilated!
> ===========================================================
>
> ==========================================================
> To unsubscribe, send email to: listar ford-trucks.com with
> the words "unsubscribe 61-79-list" in the body of the
> message.
>
>


------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 15:39:29 -0500
From: David Cooley bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Best Deals

At 03:24 PM 2/15/2000 , you wrote:
>No I do not have one in my Ranger but I know someone who does and he
>swears by it. I also know someone that works in a MotorSports shop
>near me and he has installed many of them in Mustangs. I have checked
>it out and it is not just a scam, as indicated by another reader. The
>website I gave is the one to go to.....I understand there is a
>Superchips and there is a SuperChips, Inc. The latter is the web
>address that I provided (http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.superchips.com) and you can drill
>down through the menu and go to the location that shows and tells
>about the installation if you want to see details of it. I do plan to
>get one installed this summer.

The one I was referring to that scammed people was SuperChips, Inc.
Peter Wales was, and still is their President and admitted to the scam.
Just a buyer beware.

===========================================================
David Cooley N5XMT Internet: N5XMT bellsouth.net
Packet: N5XMT KQ4LO.#INT.NC.USA.NA T.A.P.R. Member #7068
We are Borg... Prepare to be assimilated!
===========================================================


------------------------------

From: Ray Scheidnes nacm.com>
Subject: Re: Best Deals
Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 12:51:06 -0800

David,
Do you recommend another chip manufacturer, or none at all?

-----Original Message-----
From: David Cooley [mailto:n5xmt bellsouth.net]
Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2000 12:39 PM
To: small-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: [small-list] Re: Best Deals


At 03:24 PM 2/15/2000 , you wrote:
>No I do not have one in my Ranger but I know someone who does and he
>swears by it. I also know someone that works in a MotorSports shop
>near me and he has installed many of them in Mustangs. I have checked
>it out and it is not just a scam, as indicated by another reader. The
>website I gave is the one to go to.....I understand there is a
>Superchips and there is a SuperChips, Inc. The latter is the web
>address that I provided (http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.superchips.com) and you can drill
>down through the menu and go to the location that shows and tells
>about the installation if you want to see details of it. I do plan to
>get one installed this summer.

The one I was referring to that scammed people was SuperChips, Inc.
Peter Wales was, and still is their President and admitted to the scam.
Just a buyer beware.

===========================================================
David Cooley N5XMT Internet: N5XMT bellsouth.net
Packet: N5XMT KQ4LO.#INT.NC.USA.NA T.A.P.R. Member #7068
We are Borg... Prepare to be assimilated!
===========================================================

==========================================================
To unsubscribe, send email to: listar ford-trucks.com with
the words "unsubscribe 61-79-list" in the body of the
message.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 16:13:33 -0500
From: David Cooley bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Best Deals

At 03:51 PM 2/15/2000 , you wrote:
>David,
>Do you recommend another chip manufacturer, or none at all?

I haven't found one yet that really lived up to their advertisements as far
as Ford vehicles go... JET isn't a chip, but an "Interceptor". Connects
between the computer and harness and "modifies" sensor values and computer
outputs... I know several people that bought them, but returned them when
they saw no improvement in performance or mileage.

===========================================================
David Cooley N5XMT Internet: N5XMT bellsouth.net
Packet: N5XMT KQ4LO.#INT.NC.USA.NA T.A.P.R. Member #7068
We are Borg... Prepare to be assimilated!
===========================================================


------------------------------

From: Ray Scheidnes nacm.com>
Subject: Re: Best Deals
Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 14:15:22 -0800

Thanks for the info - maybe I'll stay away from the chips...

-----Original Message-----
From: David Cooley [mailto:n5xmt bellsouth.net]
Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2000 1:14 PM
To: small-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: [small-list] Re: Best Deals


At 03:51 PM 2/15/2000 , you wrote:
>David,
>Do you recommend another chip manufacturer, or none at all?

I haven't found one yet that really lived up to their advertisements as far
as Ford vehicles go... JET isn't a chip, but an "Interceptor". Connects
between the computer and harness and "modifies" sensor values and computer
outputs... I know several people that bought them, but returned them when
they saw no improvement in performance or mileage.

===========================================================
David Cooley N5XMT Internet: N5XMT bellsouth.net
Packet: N5XMT KQ4LO.#INT.NC.USA.NA T.A.P.R. Member #7068
We are Borg... Prepare to be assimilated!
===========================================================

==========================================================
To unsubscribe, send email to: listar ford-trucks.com with
the words "unsubscribe 61-79-list" in the body of the
message.

------------------------------

Date: 15 Feb 00 18:50:46 EST
From: Tim Turner netscape.net>
Subject: Re: [Re: Note from a Enthusiast]

Adam McLaughlin jps.net> wrote:
> > A quick comment/question, if I may:
>
> >
> > > After watching his brother replace the heater core in his Taurus,
>Paul's opionion of Ford products is pretty low, too.
> >


> I must have been replacing these like three a year across my Bronco,
father's ranger and friend's trucks.


> You need 2 nut drivers, and the cool hose puller tool from the parts store.
So what?
>

Unlike the small Ford trucks the Taurus/Sable is a real pain; after doing a
few dozen I'm down to about 4-6 Hours using air tools and swivel sockets.
Many a tech has spent over a whole day on the first one they've done. The
latest version of the Taurus has some nifty engineering too... haven't done a
core on one yet but I can tell you what fun the radiator is! It's mounted in
FRONT of the rad. support requiring removal of the bumper, bodywork etc. I
think 'book' time is around 5 hours.

Tim

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------------------------------

Date: 15 Feb 00 19:05:43 EST
From: Tim Turner netscape.net>
Subject: Re: [Re: Reccomend a Ranger? Maybe...]

Dwight & Tina Varnes lancnews.infi.net> wrote:


> Recommendation to your friend: avoid the 2.9 due to the cracking heads.
> I haven't talked to an owner yet who hasn't replaced either head or
> entire engine by 100k.

Hate to say it but I'm seeing cracked 4.0s in the shop too... Generally the
head doesn't crack until the vehicle gets run hot from another cause such as
t-stat or restricted radiator. As an aside to 4.0 owners (especially older
Explorers) check your plastic radiator fan closely; they tend to crack and
separate.

Tim

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------------------------------

Date: 15 Feb 00 20:09:09 EST
From: Tim Turner netscape.net>
Subject: Re: [Should I recommend...] + more

rgstein pacbell.net wrote:
> Hey, y'all,

> I didn't appreciate the jingoism: hey, guys, can we
> stop using the word "Jap?" I have a Japanese-American friend and I
> really like him.

Unfortunately to some that phrase is ingrained when it comes to vehicles; but
given the world wide aspect of the lists it's a valid point. The Asian
vehicles are the worst for this namecalling but there certainly exist names
for the UK, German, Italian and French ones too.

> our automakers have
> never seemed to have gotten it (well, maybe Saturn).

They have their share of wonky engineering too. Certainly less obstructive
than the A'star but some jobs are not exactly fun on the Saturns either.

>
> The examples I gave of absurd ownership costs and stupid engineering are
> very real. This is the truth, whether or not we like it.

And the Aerostar is certainly a good example especially in it's earlier
versions.

> For brevity, I didn't mention my two Hondas with blown head
> gaskets (Honda was famous for this)

After the 4th gasket in 9 months on Kim's I opted for using K&W block seal as
needed. Of course this had a bad effect on the water pump so it seized and
took out the timing belt bending the valves... The only bright spot in this
was that it's replacement was the B-II! :-) :-)

> didn't mention my friend Gary's $1,000 loose bolt behind his Saab

You mean the one that requires engine removal due to it's absurd length?

> or the $250 cost to replace the rear fuel filter, located atop
> his Voyager's gas tank.

A great Chrysler idea.. put the fuel filter IN the tank and change the service
interval to 'as needed'. I know more than one shop owner that blindly quoted
a price to change one just to find out where it REALLY was later.

> Anyway, some of you gave me some very good reasons to own Rangers, and
> just about convinced me to buy one myself!

Always said I loved my essentially similar B-II! :-)

>
> Having been in the (electronics) repair business, I became increasingly
> angered by the progressive advance of products that were engineered with
> obstructions, and made with overstressed, overpriced parts, causing
> repair and ownership costs to skyrocket. Products designed this way are
> disgusting. I can't help thinking that the executives of the
> manufacturing companies think of us with contempt.

Pretty much the same with vehicles including the electronics thereof.

> MORE DISCUSSINO, PLEASE:
> But now, I'm wondering if I should trade my Aerostar in on some kind of
> Ford SUV.



> So, the question: can I get what I want in an Explorer (or other Ford
> SUV?). I mean, what I need is 6 flat feet in which to stretch out behind
> the front seats.

Might want to look into the Expedetion or even the Excursion to get that room
comfortably depending on your tastes/needs if the Explorer turns out to be a
tad tight for you. I've always enjoyed on-road driving in Explorers and after
the first year or three most of the bugs were worked out so reliabilty is
decent. (And there's a real engine compartment unlike the Aerostar!).

>
> A final note about Consumer Reports.
> I've always disliked their recommendations for hi-fi equipment (whacko).

Agreed.

> Better for cars, but you have to know how to interpret what they say. It
> is important to understand where those charts come from. These are
> repair frequency tables, with the data coming directly from Consumer
> Reports subscribers (and nowhere else). If a reader has to have the
> battery terminals cleaned every month, this will count as twelve
> electrical repairs for the electrical system (lousy). On the other hand, if
a Toyota
> Corolla's entire electrical system goes out at once: alternator,
> starter, wiring harness to the rear defroster, all the dashlights blown,
> all with a repair bill of $950, this will count as one repair incident,
> and the car will be shown with an electrical red dot (excellent).

Quite so.. Anyone with OLD back issues of CU look at the '76 Buick Opel;
those black dots for exhaust transmission and clutch were in some small part
due to the repeat failures my family had. (In fairness to ISUZU who made it
I'll admit that I was 16 and used it off-road and would pull ANYone out try at least>, I'm sure this had something to do with the short clutch life
and the exhaust ripping off routinely...)

> I think that you and I are more savvy than this.

Right.. they are just reporting 'trends' reported by readers and of course
bad experiences are more likely to be passed on than good.

> By the way, Consumer Reports did say in recent years that Toyota makes
> one car that they really dislike.

Hopefully the laughable mini-vans.

Tim

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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 20:24:05 -0600
From: Buck Shoff sktc.net>
Subject: Re: [Re: Reccomend a Ranger? Maybe...]



Tim Turner wrote

> Hate to say it but I'm seeing cracked 4.0s in the shop too... Generally the
> head doesn't crack until the vehicle gets run hot from another cause such as
> t-stat or restricted radiator.

Thanks for your 'heads' up, Tim. (pun intended, grin) Don't you find
that most modern engines will crack heads after being run hot,
especially those with aluminum heads?

On vehicles that are driven off road, I have found many radiators
restrcted externally by trash building up between the A/C condenser and
the radiator. The aluminum cored radiators used today seldom build up
deposits internally like copper/brass ones did. Just my answer to the
question that nobody asked. Buck Shoff

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 21:14:16 -0500
From: Ken Payne ford-trucks.com>
Subject: Re: Reliabilty of Ford

At 10:56 AM 2/13/00 +0000, you wrote:
>Ken,
>
>It was the dealer and Ford UK actually, I tried to get Ford UK to police
>their dealer network, but was told point blank where to get off. I was even
>told that there was only ONE Ford garage in the UK, and all the others were
>franchises and therefore Ford UK did not recognise them as approved
>dealerships.....so er, I blame Ford UK (bear in mind that Ford UK is NOT
>FoMOCo either...)

I'm not surprised. Sometimes I think Ford has gotten too cocky
because of their enormous growth in recent years. The number
one complaint I see across all the lists is: trucks are great,
service sucks.

>Also, I'm subscribed to this list because :-
>
>a. I was and the advice can be applied to a majority of vehciles :)
>
>b. As I stated, I am currently trying to wrap a LR 109" aluminium body
>around a rolling Explorer chassis. Of course, all I've got at the mo, is the
>donor vehicle (LR) and an Explorer with the top cut off! (The vehicle was in
>an accident and the fire service cut all the door posts off! Actually it
>looks pretty cool...sort of a giant sports car!! *grin* So I can imagine I'm
>going to have some fun removing all the electronic stuff from the engine....


That's going to be a really cool vehicle!

Ken



------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 23:23:20 -0800
From: Jean Marc Chartier sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Best Deals

David Cooley wrote:
>
> At 03:51 PM 2/15/2000 , you wrote:
> >David,
> >Do you recommend another chip manufacturer, or none at all?
>
> I haven't found one yet that really lived up to their advertisements as far
> as Ford vehicles go... JET isn't a chip, but an "Interceptor". Connects....


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