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small-list Digest Thu, 20 Apr 2000 Volume: 2000 Issue: 055

In This Issue:
Re: [Chattery Start... Stopped?]
That old fashion chatter
Re: [That old fashion chatter]
Re: EGR code!
Re: [Shop oddities part II
Annual Pigeon Forge Supernationals

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 20 Apr 00 21:10:44 EDT
From: Tim Turner netscape.net>
Subject: Re: [Chattery Start... Stopped?]

Adam McLaughlin jps.net> wrote:

> Does anyone remember my prior posts about a year ago regarding the
> chattery start in my 1988 Bronco II?

Believe it or not; yes. :-)

> Well, I think we may have it
> licked. I was pulling the codes, and comparing what I found with my
> prior notes, and something popped up that I have not noticed before. It
> suggested code 21 consistently through five key in, engine running
> tests.

Just as an aside the coolant temperature must be above 160F during the KOER
test to prevent a false ECT code. (I think it's 120F for the KOEO test)

> drove it for two days and pulled the codes again. Everything checks out!
> We're back to a code 1-1.

Sweet!

> How much influence does teh ECT sensor actually have to do
> with the engine running?

A LOT! An open circuit ECT indicates -40 (brrr!) and a shorted ECT is around
265F (engine melt down). The ECT, MAP/MAF and O2 are the primary inputs with
the rest making smaller adjustments (although the ACT seems to have a large
effect also).

Just for kicks I'd pull the ACT and see how much crud is built up on it as
well; the more is on it the slower it responds. If it's cheap I'd replace
it.


Tim

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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 19:30:45 -0700
From: Adam McLaughlin jps.net>
Subject: That old fashion chatter

Hi Tim, and everyone of the ford lists:

Good news! The problem seems to be gone for now. I can be at a stop in traffic, and let out
the clutch slowly, and nothing grabs and I accelerate without any hesitation. Last week, while
letting off of the clutch, sometimes it would grab so hard the car would stall. No foolin'!

I have replaced the clutch assembly, master, slave and I have had the flywheel professionally
resurfaced.

Tim Turner wrote:

> Adam McLaughlin jps.net> wrote:
>
> > Does anyone remember my prior posts about a year ago regarding the
> > chattery start in my 1988 Bronco II?
>
> Believe it or not; yes. :-)
>
> > Well, I think we may have it
> > licked. I was pulling the codes, and comparing what I found with my
> > prior notes, and something popped up that I have not noticed before. It
> > suggested code 21 consistently through five key in, engine running
> > tests.
>
> Just as an aside the coolant temperature must be above 160F during the KOER
> test to prevent a false ECT code. (I think it's 120F for the KOEO test)
>

What I did was to drive it home from work, and then immediatly plug in my aligator clip, while
sitting in the driver's seat. Work is about 15 minutes away, and the engine is plenty warm
here in California after that much drive. As soon as I had the aligator clip in, I keyed the
ignition and checked the codes.


>
> > drove it for two days and pulled the codes again. Everything checks out!
> > We're back to a code 1-1.
>
> Sweet!
>
> > How much influence does teh ECT sensor actually have to do
> > with the engine running?
>
> A LOT! An open circuit ECT indicates -40 (brrr!) and a shorted ECT is around
> 265F (engine melt down). The ECT, MAP/MAF and O2 are the primary inputs with
> the rest making smaller adjustments (although the ACT seems to have a large
> effect also).
>

I never knew that! I just figured it was there for minor air/fuel adjustments and regulations
of the mixture. What is an ACT?


>
> Just for kicks I'd pull the ACT and see how much crud is built up on it as
> well; the more is on it the slower it responds. If it's cheap I'd replace
> it.
>

What is this? I'll poke around it if I knew what it were...


>
> Tim
>

Adam


------------------------------

Date: 20 Apr 00 22:55:38 EDT
From: Tim Turner netscape.net>
Subject: Re: [That old fashion chatter]

Adam McLaughlin jps.net> wrote:


> of the mixture. What is an ACT?

Air Charge Temp. Sensor (renamed Intake Air Temp by OBD-II) Senses the
temperature of the air in the intake manifold. Engines that have it mounted
in the intake manifold rather than the air ducting are prone to build up on
the sensing element.

>
> What is this? I'll poke around it if I knew what it were...

Should be mounted on the intake in one of the runners; I think it's close to
the ECT on yours and looks similar except on removal you'll see the sensing
element rather than the shrouding cone you've seen on the ECT. (Same thing; a
thermistor but the ACT needs a quicker response so doesn't have the metal
around it.)

Tim



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------------------------------

From: "Raymond C. Gray" telcordia.com>
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 10:41:40 -0400
Subject: Re: EGR code!





From: "Ron,Marge,Ted" sunlink.net>



Ron wrote:




> Hi George,

>
>Thanks much for your tip on the EGR sensor. Just bought one today from NAPA
>and installed it. That did the trick, no more check engine light. It really
>gripes me that I took our Explorer to a Ford dealer (supposed to be
>experts!) and spent $269 only to have the light still come on after I left.
>When I told the tech that I got a code regarding the EGR system, he said it
>has nothing to do with it....wow, was he wrong. Now, to try and see if I can
>get some money back on their misdiagnosis. Probably have a better chance
>winning the lottery. This list is the greatest...thanks again.
> Ron

Ron,

You should get your refund...I had the same experience with a Toyota dealer who
ran diagnostics and told me two expensive parts were defective in the heating
system. I paid $138! for just the diagnostics, went to another dealer and they
repaired it with just one of the two parts. So I told the first dealer that
his diagnosis was in error and I wantd a refund. Had to threaten him with
small claims court to get action, but it worked. I would have gone to small
claims since i had receipts from both dealers to prove my point.

Good luck!

Ray



------------------------------

Date: 21 Apr 00 20:47:35 EDT
From: Tim Turner netscape.net>
Subject: Re: [Shop oddities part II


Pull the vehicle in with complaint of "No Brakes; did have a bad noise from
LF earlier". Inspection reveals *NO* pads on the LF with the caliper piston
on the rotor and brake fluid everywhere from the blown caliper seal with odd
signs of aluminum on the outside of the caliper. Turned out the owner
couldn't stand the noise and yanked the (perfectly fine) pads out before the
60 minute drive from the base to our shop! One caliper bolt was missing
allowing the caliper to shift and rub the wheel causing the noise. ..
needed the caliper rebuilt and worse yet must have cut a seal in the master
also as it needed to be replaced to restore a good pedal.

I've seen plenty of rotors worn down into the cooling fins (usually with "it
just started making noise yesterday") and cases of ONE pad spit out from
excessive wear but never re-installed intenionally removed pads before!

What a strange week it's been.. I can hardly wait until next week!

Tim T

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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 23:23:22 -0500
From: Ken Payne ford-trucks.com>
Subject: Annual Pigeon Forge Supernationals

Ford Truck Enthusiasts makes an annual trek to the
F100 Supernationals in Pigeon Forge, Tennessee. This
is the largest 48-79 Ford truck show in the world.
Each year, list members and web site visitors meet
there. This year, the non-profit Association of
Ford Truck Enthusiasts will be meeting there. AFTE
has several things planned, such as a breakfast and
picnic. One of the members, Gary, asked me about a
month ago to announce the event to the lists but it
got misplaced in my to-do list.

If you're interested in attending this event, there
is a forum on the web site site message boards (events
forum).



------------------------------

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