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Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 08:52:50 -0600 (MDT)
From: owner-fordtrucks-digest ListService.net (fordtrucks-digest)
To: fordtrucks-digest ListService.net
Subject: fordtrucks-digest V1 #225
Reply-To: fordtrucks ListService.net
Sender: owner-fordtrucks-digest ListService.net


fordtrucks-digest Thursday, September 18 1997 Volume 01 : Number 225



=======================================================================
Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1979 And Older Trucks Digest
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email to the same address with the word "help" in the body of the
message.
=======================================================================
In this issue:

Compression Ratios and a C6 ["Don & Teresa Neighbors"
Re: Compression Ratios ["Gary, 78 BBB" ]
Did anyone get digest 218? [Ken Payne ]
Dim instrument lights...Help!!! [Mark Goods ]
Spare Tire Carrier ["Bear" ]
Re: Dim instrument lights...Help!!! ["deconblu" ]
Voting results [Ken Payne ]
Re: Pre-oiler ["Gary, 78 BBB" ]
Re: C6 never making it to 3rd, missing shift linkage? ["Gary, 78 BBB"
[none] [Ken Payne ]
Re: Riddle me this!!!! (Spare tire carrier) ["Gary, 78 BBB"
Re: Compression Ratios [SuperMagot aol.com]
Re: Dual Exhaust for my 74 ["Gary, 78 BBB" ]
RE: 460. ["Gary, 78 BBB" ]
RE: Compression Ratios [Sleddog ]
RE: Pre-oiler [Sleddog ]
RE: 56 ford f100 - need opinions [Sleddog ]
RE: 460. [Sleddog ]
RE: Compression Ratios [Sleddog ]
RE: Compression Ratios and a C6 [Sleddog ]
learn about emmissions, knonk, ping, etc. [Sleddog ]

=======================================================================

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 06:59:53 -0400
From: "Don & Teresa Neighbors"
Subject: Compression Ratios and a C6

A reply to a couple of issues:
To Tom Hogan on Compression: Compression ratio directly affects the
engine's out put of hydrocarbon and NOx emissions. The higher the CR, the
lower HC emissions, but your NOx emissions go up. The reverse is true as
compression goes lower. Pinging becomes a problem if compression is too
high. (well, you probably already know that.) With today's gas the
practical limit is usually between 8 or 9 to 1 compression, depending on
head design, etc, etc.
To John on that C6: Did you say the vacuum modulator hose was soft from
oil? Did a little transmission fluid leak out when you removed that vacuum
hose? If so, your vacuum modulator is history. I have very little hands-on
experience with a C6, but I can tell you from personal experience that a C4
won't go into 3rd if the modulator is dead or disconnected. (I discovered
this when I forgot to attach the vacuum hose to the very first C4 I ever
rebuilt!)
As was suggested by another member of this discussion group, if the direct
(High) clutch pack isn't engaging, then you will have no 3rd gear. This
could be a problem like the one I just described, or the clutch piston is
stuck. If the clutches themselves had failed, that ungodly amount of fluid
you dumped out would have dark or even black, and would smell burned. If
the clutch piston quit engaging, then there is a (slim) possibility there's
a problem in the valve body, or the seals are bad on the clutch servo. The
fluid level at the dipstick you describes suggests 1/2 to 1 quart
over-full, which SHOULD only make shifting a little wierd, but should't be
enough to prevent the 2-3 shift.
By the way, while I'm only working from memory here, 6 quarts drained out
sounds about right for a C6, with more, like 2 or 3 quarts in the torque
convertor.
Hope this helps. if it doesn't, you'll feel much better after thrashing
the guy that sold you the van!

Don Neighbors

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 07:48:11 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: Compression Ratios

> From: Tom Hogan
> Subject: Compression Ratios
> Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 14:55:00 -0700

> How would increasing conpression ratio affect exhaust emissions? I
> know if the engine doesn't ping that you can get more power out of
> it but will fuel efficiency go up too? Does anyone besides Sleddog

Higher Nox emmisions due to higher cylinder temps. Higher
compression means higher efficiency so with all other things
unchanged it would help economy and power.

> have experience running higher compression ratios? I'm wondering if
> the 460 has a more efficient design that can live with the higher

It uses what's called a "wedge head" design which supresses the spark
knock tendency.

> ratio. I saw a buildup in "Hot Rod" where they built a long rod 350
> C***y motor with 11:1 compression that ran well with cat piss gass
> (85 octane) so I think it can be done. Also, what is a good

Another list member said that with enough cam overlap you can reduce
the compression at low rpms enough to get by and also build awsome
power at higher revs but I havn't personally tried it.

> compression ratio limit for a 390 FE?

It's just an engine. NASCAR's run 14:1 and I've heard of dragsters
going as high as 16:1 with special fuels. Practical street limits
seem to be closer to 9.5:1 without exotic camming which also reduces
economy.

The swift of foot and slow of wit
have more off road experiences

- -- Gary --

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 08:19:57 -0400
From: Ken Payne
Subject: Did anyone get digest 218?

For some reason it did not arrive here. If anyone got it,
let me know if you can forward me a copy for our archives.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 08:18:56 -0400
From: Mark Goods
Subject: Dim instrument lights...Help!!!

I have a 68 F100 and the instrument lights are very dim. Is there something
I can do to get them brighter? Also, the plastic over the speedometer is
real "foggy" looking, is there something I can do to get it to look clear
again? It seams to be on the interior of the the plastic.

Thanks


Mark

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 07:20:45 -0500
From: "Bear"
Subject: Spare Tire Carrier

"Just A Thought"

If you don't have a spare tire you will remember not to drive through glass
or over nails! :)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 05:48:31 -0700
From: "deconblu"
Subject: Re: Dim instrument lights...Help!!!

My '73s comes apart and I just cleaned the inside of the plastic and it
looks good as new. You may need to remove the plastic inside the cluster as
someone suggested to fix the dim lights.



Deacon Blues
Visit my Homepage at http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://home1.gte.net/deconblu/
and http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.dragonfire.net/~site/tbirdknights/
or send me a fan or flame at deconblu gte.net not both. Never fan a flame!

- -----Original Message-----
From: Mark Goods
To: 'fordtrucks listservice.net'
Date: Thursday, September 18, 1997 5:20 AM
Subject: Dim instrument lights...Help!!!



>I have a 68 F100 and the instrument lights are very dim. Is there something
>I can do to get them brighter? Also, the plastic over the speedometer is
>real "foggy" looking, is there something I can do to get it to look clear
>again? It seams to be on the interior of the the plastic.
>
>Thanks
>
>
>Mark
>
>
>
>+-------------- Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1979 and Older --------------+
>| Send posts to fordtrucks listservice.net, |
>| Send Unsubscribe requests to fordtrucks-request listservice.net |
>+-- Visit Our Web Site: http://www.ford-trucks.com/ --+
>

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 09:04:29 -0400
From: Ken Payne
Subject: Voting results

Just counted the voting results for the split: 34 in favor,
11 against. As I said earlier, not many votes. Does anyone
care to see the comments made or is it a moot point?

- -Ken

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 09:02:04 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: Pre-oiler

> From: Tom Hogan
> Subject: Pre-oiler
> Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 16:20:55 -0700

> Has anyone heard about or had experience with an electric pre-oiler
> that would pressurize the oil system in the motor before starting
> it? I remember seeing one in a Truckin' magazine a long time ago.

I've seen them in catalogs but don't think the average person will
ever need one with a daily driver unless he's one of those that
presses the throttle to the floor and holds it while the engine runs
like a banshee for a few seconds after starting. I always try to set
my vehicles up to start with no throttle so they come right up on
idle. There may be some indication for a toy that sits for long
period so the oil drains completely out of the rings and bearings but
even then I have to wonder if it's really needed.

> time. Mainly to protect turbcharger bearings. I was wondering if
> anyone had seen one or if you knew if the company was still in

The slickest thing I've seen for this is an oil accumulator which
holds a quart of oil under pressure till the engine is shut off and
then feeds it back through the turbo bearings through an orifice
designed to slow it down so it bleeds through the bearings slowly to
cool them immediately after shutting down. On my cougar the
directons were to idle the engine for one minute before shutting it
off. We got 100k out of it that way without an accumulator.

The accumulator is passive and uses no power or moving parts except
for the piston and spring. The engine oil pressure system
pressurizes it when the engine is running. This could be set up to
operate at start up rather than shut down with a selenoid operated
valve to release the oil when the ignition was turned on.

The swift of foot and slow of wit
have more off road experiences

- -- Gary --

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 09:10:06 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: C6 never making it to 3rd, missing shift linkage?

> From: reedg ns2.cetlink.net
> Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 19:57:38 +0000
> Subject: Re: C6 never making it to 3rd, missing shift linkage?

> I talked to a transmission technician yesterday, ( I have my own
> trans problems) He said it could be your reverse-high clutch or your
> direct clutch seals or plates. Whatever the heck that means.

In high gear in an automatic all the internal clutches are engaged to
make the whole assembly turn as a unit and the bands and external
clutche are released to allow it all to turn so this could be true
but it seems like some clues would have been dropping right along
that something wasn't working right (slipping etc.) before it would
just quit like that??

The swift of foot and slow of wit
have more off road experiences

- -- Gary --

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 09:42:04 -0400
From: Ken Payne
Subject: [none]

Web Ratings just reviewed the Ford Truck Enthusiasts web site
and gave us a 4 on a scale of 1-5!

http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.webratings.net

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 09:44:13 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: Riddle me this!!!! (Spare tire carrier)

> From: "MICHAEL FRISCH"
> Subject: Re: Riddle me this!!!! (Spare tire carrier)
> Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 22:36:20 PDT

> I was thinking of taking on off of an Airostar. As for the "heavy
> duty" They have 15" tires.
>
> Maybe, maybe not??

Why not just throw it in the back like everybody else? :-)

The swift of foot and slow of wit
have more off road experiences

- -- Gary --

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 09:56:21 -0400 (EDT)
From: SuperMagot aol.com
Subject: Re: Compression Ratios

Compression Ratios are funny things, and there are many variables that effect
the bottom line (which is cylinder pressure)

Compression Ratio is really a variable that effects the cylinder pressure and
is of it itself not the bottom line. Camshaft durations and timing can
seriously effect cylinder pressure as well.

I have worked with a few computer programs that can calculate cylinder
pressure based upon such things as compression ratios, camshaft info, etc.

For example, the 460 I have has 9.5:1 Compression, and has a RV-type cam.
These two factors contribute to a fairly high cylinder pressure number, but
since I live at Altitude 6000', the ambient air pressure is lower and hence
so is cylinder pressure and so I can run on 85 octane gas with no problem.

My key point (if you can dig it out of all that) is that the compression
ratio is simply one factor in a group of factors that effect Cylinder
Pressure.

- - Mike

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 09:59:10 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: Dual Exhaust for my 74

> From: "Brett McCoy"
> Subject: Re: Dual Exhaust for my 74
> Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 22:41:21 -0500

> I seem to remember reading about a guy who was installing custom two
> into one systems on 4X4's. The idea it to run dual pipe from the
> manifold or headers back to a Y-pipe. The dual pipe would be about
> 2-1/4" id. Then you dump into the Y-pipe that takes you up to a
> single 3" size. Run a single large free flowing muffler and exit

Walker makes a two into one conversion exhaust for ford trucks. I
had one on my 78 PU already prebent and ready to bolt on.

The swift of foot and slow of wit
have more off road experiences

- -- Gary --

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 10:09:16 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: RE: 460.

> From: "....."
> Subject: RE: 460.
> Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 20:59:48 -0700

> I have a 69 460, 365 hp motor.
> Can I put a cam with a intake valve lift of .498 and an exhaust
> valve lift of .526 without valve spring bind? The cam is a Crower
> with a power range of 1500 low end and a 5500 red line. The
> intake is an Edelbrock Performer RPM.

Measure the spring height in the head on seveal valves and take a few
off and compress them to lighly bind in a vise and measure again and
find the difference. This would be the max possible but not
necessarily the working lift. I'd leave a little lee way myself. I
just looked at a 351M with a broken spring and the push rod and lifer
came out and broke apart inside the engine and the valve marked up
the piston but I think he ran it for some time in that condition.
The thing that stopped him was when parts of the lifter got between
the cam gear and distributor and smashed the teeth out of the dist
gear :-(

The swift of foot and slow of wit
have more off road experiences

- -- Gary --

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 10:05:41 -0400
From: Sleddog
Subject: RE: Compression Ratios

i am a beleiver in that anything that improves the efficiency of an engine,
especially accross the whole operating range increses fuel economy and
power.
compression ration effects the power accross the entire rpm range of an
engine, it increases the theoretical efficiency of an engine.

exhaust emmissions is another story - more efficiency doesn't always mean a
cleaner burning mixture, except maybe a reduction in hydrocarbon
emmissions. the alkalides and carbon monoxide are dependant upon other
factors and usually when one kind of harmful emmision is reduced, another
increases.

sleddog

- ----------
From: Daver[SMTP:f150 koyote.com]
Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 1997 11:03 PM
To: fordtrucks ListService.net
Subject: Re: Compression Ratios

Tom Hogan wrote:
>
> How would increasing conpression ratio affect exhaust emissions? I know
> if the engine doesn't ping that you can get more power out of it but
> will fuel efficiency go up too?

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 10:27:07 -0400
From: Sleddog
Subject: RE: Pre-oiler

moroso makes one of these accumulators. it also can be set up to discharge
oil at moments of oil starvation from acceleration, braking, climbing very
steep hills or cornering or pump faliure. in times of short duration oil
starvation it prevents any damage and if the pump fails it keeps oil there
untill you can safely pull over and stop the engine thereby reducing the
overall engine damage during such a tragic moment.

sleddog

- ----------
From: Gary, 78 BBB[SMTP:gpeters3 ford.com]
Sent: Thursday, September 18, 1997 5:02 AM
To: fordtrucks ListService.net
Subject: Re: Pre-oiler

> From: Tom Hogan
> Subject: Pre-oiler
> Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 16:20:55 -0700

> Has anyone heard about or had experience with an electric pre-oiler
> that would pressurize the oil system in the motor before starting
> it? I remember seeing one in a Truckin' magazine a long time ago.

I've seen them in catalogs but don't think the average person will
ever need one with a daily driver unless he's one of those that
presses the throttle to the floor and holds it while the engine runs
like a banshee for a few seconds after starting. I always try to set
my vehicles up to start with no throttle so they come right up on
idle. There may be some indication for a toy that sits for long
period so the oil drains completely out of the rings and bearings but
even then I have to wonder if it's really needed.

> time. Mainly to protect turbcharger bearings. I was wondering if
> anyone had seen one or if you knew if the company was still in

The slickest thing I've seen for this is an oil accumulator which
holds a quart of oil under pressure till the engine is shut off and
then feeds it back through the turbo bearings through an orifice
designed to slow it down so it bleeds through the bearings slowly to
cool them immediately after shutting down. On my cougar the
directons were to idle the engine for one minute before shutting it
off. We got 100k out of it that way without an accumulator.

The accumulator is passive and uses no power or moving parts except
for the piston and spring. The engine oil pressure system
pressurizes it when the engine is running. This could be set up to
operate at start up rather than shut down with a selenoid operated
valve to release the oil when the ignition was turned on.

The swift of foot and slow of wit
have more off road experiences

- -- Gary --






+-------------- Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1979 and Older --------------+
| Send posts to fordtrucks listservice.net, |
| Send Unsubscribe requests to fordtrucks-request listservice.net |
+-- Visit Our Web Site: http://www.ford-trucks.com/ --+

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 10:28:54 -0400
From: Sleddog
Subject: RE: 56 ford f100 - need opinions

what are the "extra" pushrods for?

sleddog
- ----------
From: danadeb pacbell.net[SMTP:danadeb pacbell.net]
Sent: Thursday, September 18, 1997 2:40 AM
To: Ford Folks
Subject: Re: 56 ford f100 - need opinions

Sounds A bit high to me!

15 years ago I bought and drove home a 56 small window complete. It had
the most unique engine (272 I think) I have ever seen. It had 15 (yes I
said 15) push rods.

Ran great!

I paid $800 for it.

Dana





+-------------- Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1979 and Older --------------+
| Send posts to fordtrucks listservice.net, |
| Send Unsubscribe requests to fordtrucks-request listservice.net |
+-- Visit Our Web Site: http://www.ford-trucks.com/ --+

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 10:32:47 -0400
From: Sleddog
Subject: RE: 460.

a paper clip should be able to be inserted between the coils at the max. valve lift. for safety.

- ----------
From: Gary, 78 BBB[SMTP:gpeters3 ford.com]
Sent: Thursday, September 18, 1997 6:09 AM
To: fordtrucks ListService.net
Subject: RE: 460.

> From: "....."
> Subject: RE: 460.
> Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 20:59:48 -0700

> I have a 69 460, 365 hp motor.
> Can I put a cam with a intake valve lift of .498 and an exhaust
> valve lift of .526 without valve spring bind? The cam is a Crower
> with a power range of 1500 low end and a 5500 red line. The
> intake is an Edelbrock Performer RPM.

Measure the spring height in the head on seveal valves and take a few
off and compress them to lighly bind in a vise and measure again and
find the difference. This would be the max possible but not
necessarily the working lift. I'd leave a little lee way myself. I
just looked at a 351M with a broken spring and the push rod and lifer
came out and broke apart inside the engine and the valve marked up
the piston but I think he ran it for some time in that condition.
The thing that stopped him was when parts of the lifter got between
the cam gear and distributor and smashed the teeth out of the dist
gear :-(

The swift of foot and slow of wit
have more off road experiences

- -- Gary --





+-------------- Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1979 and Older --------------+
| Send posts to fordtrucks listservice.net, |
| Send Unsubscribe requests to fordtrucks-request listservice.net |
+-- Visit Our Web Site: http://www.ford-trucks.com/ --+

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 10:31:18 -0400
From: Sleddog
Subject: RE: Compression Ratios

where can i get a program like that?

sleddog

- ----------
From: SuperMagot aol.com[SMTP:SuperMagot aol.com]
Sent: Thursday, September 18, 1997 5:56 AM
To: fordtrucks ListService.net
Subject: Re: Compression Ratios

Compression Ratios are funny things, and there are many variables that effect
the bottom line (which is cylinder pressure)

Compression Ratio is really a variable that effects the cylinder pressure and
is of it itself not the bottom line. Camshaft durations and timing can
seriously effect cylinder pressure as well.

I have worked with a few computer programs that can calculate cylinder
pressure based upon such things as compression ratios, camshaft info, etc.

For example, the 460 I have has 9.5:1 Compression, and has a RV-type cam.
These two factors contribute to a fairly high cylinder pressure number, but
since I live at Altitude 6000', the ambient air pressure is lower and hence
so is cylinder pressure and so I can run on 85 octane gas with no problem.

My key point (if you can dig it out of all that) is that the compression
ratio is simply one factor in a group of factors that effect Cylinder
Pressure.

- - Mike





+-------------- Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1979 and Older --------------+
| Send posts to fordtrucks listservice.net, |
| Send Unsubscribe requests to fordtrucks-request listservice.net |
+-- Visit Our Web Site: http://www.ford-trucks.com/ --+

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 10:20:39 -0400
From: Sleddog
Subject: RE: Compression Ratios and a C6

- ----------
From: Don & Teresa Neighbors[SMTP:kyneighbors kih.net]
Sent: Thursday, September 18, 1997 6:59 AM
To: Discussion Group - Ford Trucks
Subject: Compression Ratios and a C6

A reply to a couple of issues:
To Tom Hogan on Compression: Compression ratio directly affects the
engine's out put of hydrocarbon and NOx emissions. The higher the CR, the
lower HC emissions, but your NOx emissions go up. The reverse is true as
compression goes lower. Pinging becomes a problem if compression is too
high. (well, you probably already know that.) With today's gas the
practical limit is usually between 8 or 9 to 1 compression, depending on....

---

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