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Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 22:56:47 -0600 (MDT)
From: owner-fordtrucks-digest ListService.net (fordtrucks-digest)
To: fordtrucks-digest ListService.net
Subject: fordtrucks-digest V1 #220
Reply-To: fordtrucks ListService.net
Sender: owner-fordtrucks-digest ListService.net


fordtrucks-digest Tuesday, September 16 1997 Volume 01 : Number 220



=======================================================================
Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1979 And Older Trucks Digest
Visit our web site: http://www.ford-trucks.com/
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email to the same address with the word "help" in the body of the
message.
=======================================================================
In this issue:

RE: ex. manifold/header for 352/390 [mcat epix.net]
port matching heads - intake [Sleddog ]
RE: 428CJ manifold?? Or? [Sleddog ]
Re: 428CJ manifold?? Or? [marko helix.net (marko maryniak)]
RE: Dual Exhaust for my 74 [Tom Hogan ]
Re: 460 intake suggestions [Tom Hogan ]
Re: Riddle me this!!!! ["deconblu" ]
Intake manifolds [Tom Hogan ]
Re: Dual Exhaust for my 74 [danadeb pacbell.net]
Re: Bedliners [GMPACHECO aol.com]
460 intake suggestions ["Mike & Evan" ]
460 performance info [danadeb pacbell.net]
Re: 460 intake suggestions [HYDROSMITH aol.com]
Re: Question For Group ["George Shepherd" ]
Re: '89 f-250 gastank ["George Shepherd" ]
PVS Switch, 351M ["Dale and Donna Carmine" ]
Re: Riddle me this!!!! [dave.williams chaos.lrk.ar.us (Dave Williams)]
Re: Riddle me this!!!! ["deconblu" ]

=======================================================================

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 97 17:59:15 PDT
From: mcat epix.net
Subject: RE: ex. manifold/header for 352/390

The 406 or the 427 factory headers are a bolt in a 59 chassis, give
Perogi`s a call for price and avaiably. Don`s coustom exhaust in ohio can
fab oem style pipes to fit the headers. This is a better fit than 390gt
headers and no hassle with the bolt flange pattern found on the gt heads.
Garry
- --- On Mon, 15 Sep 1997 09:58:52 -0800 Antonio Gonella
wrote:

>Hello All,
>I have a 59 Ranchero with a 352. Eventually a 390 will replace it, and I
was
>wondering if there is/was a performance exhaust manifold available (from
>factory, maybe orig. fitted to Hi-Po 390's) that will fit both motors (I
>think they are the same besides displacement). A header would be fine but
I
>cant find one. Does
>anyone make a "block hugger" for FE's?.
>Thanks, Antonio.
>
>
>+-------------- Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1979 and Older --------------+
>| Send posts to fordtrucks listservice.net, |
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>

- -----------------End of Original Message-----------------


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Name: Garry
E-mail: mcat epix.net
Date: 9/16/97 Time: 5:59:15 PM

427 Fe powered 56 F-100 Wild by design
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 18:21:33 -0400
From: Sleddog
Subject: port matching heads - intake

ok, first you must undersdtand that a crossection that goes from small to
large to small is MUCH worse than one that goes from large to small to
large (venturi).
if you gasket match both items to the gasket, this is what most often
happens, and the ports still won't line up properly.

so here goes in abridged format - any questions don't be afraid to ask!

1-trace outline of gasket on heavy paper or thin cardboard (as close to
gasket compressed thickness as you can get)

2-tape "paper gasket" to head and put some rubber cement or rtv or such on
the manifold side of the "gasket".

3-bolt on intake and allow to dry.

4-remove and voila! there is a perfect template of the heads ports on the
manifold. be sure that the tape comes off, not the cement/rtv bond.

5-grind out to fit template and no more!

6-now, reverse the method to place a template of the manifold onto the
heads.

do this after all other machining of parts.
the better the match the better flow - the small gap that exists with the
actual gasket does not matter too much. it should always have a slightly
bigger hole than the ports.

class dismissed ;-)

sleddog

- ----------
From: Woody[SMTP:wfriesen worldnet.att.net]
Sent: Monday, September 15, 1997 4:16 AM
To: fordtrucks ListService.net
Subject: Re: 460 intake suggestions

> intakes) you should port match the heads. match the heads to the intake,
> not both parts to the gasket.

Sounds good in theory but how do you know how they match when bolted
together--in other words if you don't use a gasket as the intermediary
reference, how do you match intake port to head runner?

Woody






+-------------- Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1979 and Older --------------+
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 18:29:23 -0400
From: Sleddog
Subject: RE: 428CJ manifold?? Or?

i don't know the worth, but if it is a four hole dual plane it may be a high riser.
if 2 slot dual plane then it may be the sidewinder for the 427 medium riser engines.
the sidewinder may be the more valuable one since it was a 427 part.
any help?

sleddog

- ----------
From: sdelanty sonic.net[SMTP:sdelanty sonic.net]
Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 1997 5:57 PM
To: fordtrucks ListService.net
Subject: 428CJ manifold?? Or?


Sigh. I hate when You do work for people and then they become unable
to pay....

As a consolation prize, the guy let me dig thru his shed full of auto
parts (mostly Ford) and take anything I wanted.

Managed to find a couple useful things for my truck, and also an odd
looking FE intake manifold.

The manifold is cast iron and has larger ports than the 4-bbl FE manifolds
I'm used to. The carb flange sits quite a bit higher than normal.

The casting number is C8OE-9425-C

Is this a CJ428 manifold? If so, what might it be worth?

Thanks,


Steve Delanty







+-------------- Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1979 and Older --------------+
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 15:33:38 -0700
From: marko helix.net (marko maryniak)
Subject: Re: 428CJ manifold?? Or?

>
> Sigh. I hate when You do work for people and then they become unable
> to pay....
>
> As a consolation prize, the guy let me dig thru his shed full of auto
> parts (mostly Ford) and take anything I wanted.
>
> Managed to find a couple useful things for my truck, and also an odd
> looking FE intake manifold.
>
> The manifold is cast iron and has larger ports than the 4-bbl FE manifolds
> I'm used to. The carb flange sits quite a bit higher than normal.
>
> The casting number is C8OE-9425-C
>
> Is this a CJ428 manifold? If so, what might it be worth?
>
> Thanks,
>
>
> Steve Delanty
>
Steve: It could be a medium-riser manifold, maybe a High-riser. I will
look in my book this evening and get back to you tomorrow.

One question: It isn't a tunnel-port manifold is it? (oval ports)

marko in vancouver

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 16:35:43 -0700
From: Tom Hogan
Subject: RE: Dual Exhaust for my 74

On my Dad's 76 crew cab we had dual exhausts installed and they ran on
the passenger side. Crossed over near the bell housing. Exit was
infront of the rear tire. Made the hub cap on that side look really
crappy; after a while the exhaust gases dulled the chrome. It seemed
that the pipes were constantly rusting through. I don't think the pipes
had enough support and resonated while driving causing stress fractures
in the exhaust pipes under the front door. Sounded real good going
through the rich end of town with open pipes late at night though ;o).
I have seen two trucks that had the drivers side pipe on the outside of
the frame rail. Looked like a homespun setup and I don't think it would
be safe because I think that the fuel line runs up to the engine in that
location.
One question about matching the two sides in a dual setup. Would you
want the side servicing the driver's side of the engine to have the
muffler further forward than the passenger side so that both mufflers
are equal distance from the engine?
Just some ideas.

Tom H
76 F-150 Super Cab

__________________________________________

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 07:58:20 -0700
From: Keith Srb
Subject: Dual Exhaust for my 74

My 74 F250 has an Auxiliary Gas Tank mounted inside the Frame Rail on
the
drivers side of the truck. There isn't enough room between the Gas Tank
and
the Drive Shaft to run an exhaust pipe for the drivers side. Anybody
have any
suggestions??

Keith Srbherbie netvalue.net
Mesa, AZ
_______________________________________________

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 16:56:19 -0700
From: Tom Hogan
Subject: Re: 460 intake suggestions

Just an idea on port matching. Use thin cardboard (poster board) cut it
slightly larger than the intake manifold surface that mates to the head.
Then ink the mating surface and press the cardboard onto the ink to
transfer an image of the intake ports to the cardboard. Cut out the
intake ports with an exacto knife and then you have a template that
matches the port size of the manifold.


- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
- ----------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 11:04:04 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: 460 intake suggestions

> Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 02:16:22 -0600
> From: Woody
> Subject: Re: 460 intake suggestions

> > intakes) you should port match the heads. match the heads to the
> > intake, not both parts to the gasket.
>
> Sounds good in theory but how do you know how they match when bolted
> together--in other words if you don't use a gasket as the
> intermediary reference, how do you match intake port to head runner?

I was a little curious about that myself?

The swift of foot and slow of wit
have more off road experiences

- - -- Gary --

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 17:09:33 -0700
From: "deconblu"
Subject: Re: Riddle me this!!!!

Can it be? The one the only Dave Williams! The man who changed me from
plain Jim Strigas to Deacon Blues. Allow me to introduce to the list. The
DoD, Master of Knowledge, Master Engine Builder, Master Jokester, Leader of
the Blind Followers (of which I am one), Are you Rrrrready to Rrrrrrumble
seat. Introducing Dave (The King of Fangle) Williams!
Now for my $.02. The car oil pan is deep in the front and the truck is
deep in the back do to engine placement. I'm not sure on Ford because I've
personally never owned a Ford car with anything bigger than a 4 banger.

May I say your weenie engine comeback was the funniest thing I ever seen! I
would have nominated it for an award but was afraid it would also turn ugly!

Deacon Blues
Visit my Homepage at http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://home1.gte.net/deconblu/
and http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.dragonfire.net/~site/tbirdknights/
or send me a fan or flame at deconblu gte.net not both. Never fan a flame!

- -----Original Message-----
From: Dave Williams
To: fordtrucks ListService.net
Date: Tuesday, September 16, 1997 3:33 PM
Subject: Riddle me this!!!!



>
>-> holds 5 qts. the truck holds 6 qts. WHY? WHY does the truck hold 1
>-> more qt. of oil in the same motor?
>
> I dunno about the truck, but in the Mustang the standard 351C-4V engine
>was rated at 5 quarts and the BOSS 351 at 6. The pans were the same;
>Ford used a differently calibrated dipstick in the BOSS.
>
>====dave.williams chaos.lrk.ar.us========================DoD#978=======
> can you help me...help me get out of this place?...slow sedation...
>ain't my style, ain't my pace...giving me a number...NINE, SEVEN, EIGHT
>==5.0 RX7 -> Tyrannosaurus RX! == SAE '82 == Denizens of Doom M/C '92==
>
>+-------------- Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1979 and Older --------------+
>| Send posts to fordtrucks listservice.net, |
>| Send Unsubscribe requests to fordtrucks-request listservice.net |
>+-- Visit Our Web Site: http://www.ford-trucks.com/ --+
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 17:06:09 -0700
From: Tom Hogan
Subject: Intake manifolds

In case someone isn't aware of this, Edelbrock has a good web site that
details the products they have available. They also have an online
question and answer page. Be prepared to wait up to 3 or 4 weeks for a
response though. There are only 3 people manning the question board on
a voluteer basis. They do eventually get around to answering the
question. There are also dyno charts showing the performance of some of
their products. Check out the info on matched cam, intake, and carb
systems. All in all a decent site.
The URL is www.edelbrock.com

BTW...Holley also has a good site. Lots of online stuff and a public
tech discussion. Usually the tech guys don't provide the answers though
so take any advice with a grain of salt.
Holley is at www.holley.com

Tom H
76 F-150 Super Cab

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 18:28:27 -0700
From: danadeb pacbell.net
Subject: Re: Dual Exhaust for my 74

Keith,

My 70 with 460 has dual exhaust and an auxiliary tank as you described.
whoever installed it used 2-90 deg bends to route it under the frame
then between the frame and outer body, then exited it in front of the
rear tire. ( they used a round muffler ) There is plenty of room in this
location and the only thing you see is the bottom of the second 90 deg
bend. ( you could probably use 45 deg bends if you angle things right )
One last thing to mention make heat shields around fuel and electrical
in the area. ( exhaust systems give off alot of radiant heat )

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 21:29:23 -0400 (EDT)
From: GMPACHECO aol.com
Subject: Re: Bedliners

hummm, how do I get to the 80's up list to look at the bedliners?

Mike in Seattle

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 08:35:34 -0500
From: "Mike & Evan"
Subject: 460 intake suggestions

Thanks to all who offered their help and gave their insight on suggesting
a 460 intake manifold. I need all the help I can get with my project.

The engine is stock, I will be using L&L headers and a
Edelbrock 750 carb.

Has anybody actually physically compared the Performer and the Stealth?
Are they basically the same? Both claim the same results and have similar
prices. Any major differences between the two?

I would love to take the heads off and rework them, but I have never done
so, and it sounds a little intimidating to me. Besides that I am in a race
to get the truck ready for winter, when spring comes maybe I will be a
little more daring. Same thing with a cam.

Hoping the 460 moves my truck well, been bragging about it at work for
months and nobody has even seen it. All my co-workers are Ch*vy or D*dge
people and think I'm nuts, they think the stock 460 is gonna be a dog and
eat me alive in gas bills.

Any other performance suggestions would be helpfull. Any preferences on
exhuast?

Anybody have a set of ported heads to sell me? Thanks again!

Mike Vonhof
yasky netins.net

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 18:46:24 -0700
From: danadeb pacbell.net
Subject: 460 performance info

Sleddog,

Have you or anyone else you know tried early 460 heads on a late motor
( netting about an 11.5 to 1 compression ratio ) with street gas? (87-92
octane ) Does it work? I live in California and unless the Smogcheck II
exemption for pre 73 cars goes through, I am stuck using stock parts for
more performance.

Thanks

Dana

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 22:00:45 -0400 (EDT)
From: HYDROSMITH aol.com
Subject: Re: 460 intake suggestions

Hi. I don't post most either but am an avid reader.

I would suggest using an Edelbrock intake. I have had great luck with that
company. I also suggest that you consider porting the heads since you already
have headers. Having an efficeint intake and exhaust dosen't accomplish much
with restrictive heads in the middle of it all to slow things down.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 21:29:32 -0500
From: "George Shepherd"
Subject: Re: Question For Group

Joe,

Don't remember questions from you, maybe they aren't getting through. Ask
again, I got lots of books and lots of answers-some good-some not so good.

- ----------
> From: Joe D
> To: fordtrucks ListService.net
> Subject: Question For Group
> Date: Tuesday, September 16, 1997 6:16 AM
>
> I have a question....Am I doing something wrong? I post messages and
> never seem to get any answers. Am I not receiving them or do I ask
> to hard of a question or WHAT????Just venting I guess...I thought
> there would be alot of help from the group but it seems like no one
> really cares about the 67-72's......
> Thanks for listening
> +-------------- Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1979 and Older --------------+
> | Send posts to fordtrucks listservice.net, |
> | Send Unsubscribe requests to fordtrucks-request listservice.net |
> +-- Visit Our Web Site: http://www.ford-trucks.com/ --+

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 21:33:38 -0500
From: "George Shepherd"
Subject: Re: '89 f-250 gastank

Why not just fix it. I've had several resodered successfully.

- ----------
> From: Brian Perwak
> To: fordtrucks ListService.net
> Subject: '89 f-250 gastank
> Date: Tuesday, September 16, 1997 9:48 AM
>
> My front gas tank began to leak on my 89 F-250 (60,000mi). I believe it
is
> at the seam, but I'm not positive.
>
> I wanted know if anyone had any recommendations as far as replacement.
> -should I go to a plasic tank?
> -any good places to mail order a new one?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Brian Perwak
> +-------------- Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1979 and Older --------------+
> | Send posts to fordtrucks listservice.net, |
> | Send Unsubscribe requests to fordtrucks-request listservice.net |
> +-- Visit Our Web Site: http://www.ford-trucks.com/ --+

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 21:54:39 -0500
From: "Dale and Donna Carmine"
Subject: PVS Switch, 351M

Don and All,

Thanks for your post Don, it helped me get headed in the right direction.
I learned alot!
>Assuming the vacuum switch is a 235 degree switch...then vacuum would
>normally flow from the carb spart port to the switch then on to the
>distributor vacuum advance. If your engine got hotter than normal (>235
>degrees) the switch would send full manifold vacuum to the distributor
>port..this would further advance your timing...increase rpms and thus
>cool your engine back down to normal levels..(At least that's the theory
>behind this setup).

I hadn't heard of using manifold on the distributor advance to cool the
motor before. But I don't think I have the 235 switch. Chiltons
describes the 235 as a 3 port switch I have the 4 port PVS (ported vacuum
switch).

>I'd have to go pull my Mityvac book out to see
>exactly which port is which on the switch and if EGR is hooked up
>there.

This would be a great help! Does anyone know where I can find a vacuum
diagram for a '79 351M? BTW this is not the original engine, this truck
came with a 302. I'm not sure of the vintage of the swap or that any of
the vacuum lines were in the proper place when I got the truck.

>Seems to me Ford used a separate vacuum switch, usually a two
>port thermal vacuum switch to control the EGR at a certain temp.

There is a 2 port switch but it is in one of the lines going to the vapor
canister. This switch is closed when cold, open when hot (normal).

>IMO, you could hookup the distributor vacuum advance directly to the carb
>spark port. Vacuum at the spark port should be at or near zero at
>idle...don't believe it will get quite as high as manifold vacuum even
>when it does peak with the throttle open. You normally don't want to
>run direct manifold vacuum to the distributor advance. Depending on
>your carb...if you have two ports the other port should be for the EGR
>hookup. You normally will see vacuum at idle on this port. At wide
>open throttle it should be near zero vacuum on the EGR port. EGR valve
>therefore would close whe you hit wide open throttle.

I checked the carb ports with a vacuum gage. There are two ports
(Motorcraft 2150). The port on the front of the carb is the spark port I
think. It shows zero at idle, comes up quickly off idle but is always less
than manifold vacuum. The port on the side of the carb is the EGR port I
think. It shows zero at idle and comes to full manifold vacuum off idle.

>If you clean off the grease and dirt the vacuum switch on the thermostat
>housing should be labeled. Something like 1,2,D,M
>D=Distributor M=Manifold

The markings are S,E,M,D. With a cold engine all 4 ports are closed, no
vacuum can pass. With a hot (normal) engine S&E are open to each other and
M&D are open to each other. I can't tell if they open at the same
temperature or not.
Drove around a bit tonight with the distributor advance connected directly
to the spark port. Runs better, comes off idle without stumbling, but I
think the main difference was fixing the vacuum leak caused by the broken
nipple.
Need to go back now and adjust idle mixture and check timing.

Thanks again for your help. If you come up with any additional information
please post it.
Looking forward to the pics!

later
dale c

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 21:07:00 -0500
From: dave.williams chaos.lrk.ar.us (Dave Williams)
Subject: Re: Riddle me this!!!!

Jim? They haven't booted you out of here yet?

- -> Can it be? The one the only Dave Williams!

Nope. It's not me, just an incredible simulation... the real one
would have "Master of Rock and Roll" among his titles.

I am, however, proud to announce that I no longer have the tailgate
on my '68 hanging from the chains any more. The stamped-steel pivots
had disintegrated a year ago but it took this long to get enough
round tuits to do anything about it.

Since it was too hot to go junkyarding, I fired up the saw, lathe,
and milling machine, and now have billet steel bracketry for the
tailgate. I would've used aluminum but I didn't have any of the right
size on hand.

This is really neat. Now I can actually use the bed and get to the
auxiliary fuel tank, which has been empty since February. The
aluminum bed cover locks down by pins in the tailgate, which took
about 10 minutes of hassle to undo, and then you had to sit it on the
ground.

Now that I can get to the bed I'd like to get that big knobby spare
tire out and back under the truck. The truck came with a big stamped
steel thingamabob, a couple of rods, and a funky looking nut. It
looks like the idea is to hang the steel bracket from one rod, slide
the tire up onto it somehow, heave it up against the frame with
superhuman strength, feed the other rod through, and run the nut up
to hold it.

Is this the way to do it, or is there a simpler way that was probably
described in the owner's manual, which probably got stolen by the
original owner in 1968, along with the jack and jack handle?

My Courier has a little winch that you hook into the tire and it
cranks it up.

====dave.williams chaos.lrk.ar.us========================DoD#978=======
can you help me...help me get out of this place?...slow sedation...
ain't my style, ain't my pace...giving me a number...NINE, SEVEN, EIGHT
==5.0 RX7 -> Tyrannosaurus RX! == SAE '82 == Denizens of Doom M/C '92==


------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 21:56:27 -0700
From: "deconblu"
Subject: Re: Riddle me this!!!!

> Nope. It's not me, just an incredible simulation... the real one
>would have "Master of Rock and Roll" among his titles.

My head is hung low in shame! A name of Deacon Blues forgets "Master of Rock
and Roll"? The shame! It must have been the excitement of seeing the Crimson
Tide! Can I be forgiven just this once?



> Is this the way to do it, or is there a simpler way that was probably....

---

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