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Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 08:54:36 -0600 (MDT)
From: owner-fordtrucks-digest ListService.net (fordtrucks-digest)
To: fordtrucks-digest ListService.net
Subject: fordtrucks-digest V1 #201
Reply-To: fordtrucks ListService.net
Sender: owner-fordtrucks-digest ListService.net


fordtrucks-digest Monday, September 8 1997 Volume 01 : Number 201



=======================================================================
Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1979 And Older Trucks Digest
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email to the same address with the word "help" in the body of the
message.
=======================================================================
In this issue:

RE: timning, advance, etc. ["Gary, 78 BBB" ]
check valve bleeders [jniolon uss.com]
Re: Timing and stuff, again ["Gary, 78 BBB" ]
Re: Timing ["Gary, 78 BBB" ]
460 for the '73 F100 ["Deacon Blues" ]
"tree forks" ranting [Kevin Kemmerer ]
RE: Timing [Kevin Kemmerer ]
RE: 460 for the '73 F100 [Kevin Kemmerer ]
Re: Timing ["Deacon Blues" ]
Re: "tree forks" ranting ["Gary, 78 BBB" ]
Re: 460 for the '73 F100 ["Gary, 78 BBB" ]
Re: 460 for the '73 F100 ["Deacon Blues" ]
Re: Timing ["Gary, 78 BBB" ]
Re: "tree forks" ranting ["Deacon Blues" ]
460 rear engine seal leaking? ["John F. Bauer III"
Re: 460 for the '73 F100 ["Gary, 78 BBB" ]
ford posi 9" [jniolon uss.com]
Re: 460 rear engine seal leaking? [shoman p3.net]
Re: 460 rear engine seal leaking? ["Gary, 78 BBB" ]

=======================================================================

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 07:10:57 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: RE: timning, advance, etc.

> From: Kevin Kemmerer
> Subject: RE: timning, advance, etc.
> Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 17:26:51 -0400

> gary,
> where was the truck pull? my girlfreind pulled with my dodge v10 on
> aug. 31 at Newfoundland PA. she placed first against the other
> trucks. distance - 235. could this be the pull you mentioned? i

If I understood him right it was a tug of war beteen trucks during
intermission at a tractor pull on several different occasions.

The swift of foot and slow of wit
have more off road experiences

- -- Gary --

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 08 Sep 1997 06:50 -0400 (EDT)
From: jniolon uss.com
Subject: check valve bleeders

Don,

Russell makes the check valve bleeders.

You can buy them direct from Russell for about 12.00 each (i think)

They tell me that AutoZone sells them..but none of the AZ boys ever
heard of them and mumble something about "...special order...duh maybe
5 or 6 weeks..duh what was them things called again". (minumum forks
in family tree)

I saw them in Hot Rod (i think) several months ago in one of those
little new product boxes. I would try Russell Direct. I don't have
the number with me today but will post it tomorrow..

Hope this helps

culater john


------------------------------

Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 08:27:40 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: Timing and stuff, again

> From: "Don & Teresa Neighbors"
> Subject: 12 Volts
> Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 22:33:21 -0400

> I'm probably throwing a monkey wrench into the works concerning the
> discussion of vacuum and mechanical advance, but a mechanical
> advance only conversion is popular among the air-cooled VW crowd
> because the mechanical advance distributor (Bosch 009) actually
> provides better mileage AND performance than the stock vacuum
> advance distributor does. I've had good luck on American iron by

Things keep occuring to me so my fingers keep messing with the
keyboard, dang! It's occured to me that one of the problems, now
that I think of it I already mentioned this, with stock distributors
is that they won't give you the 34 - 38 degrees mechanical advance at
WOT the engine needs for best performance so after market mechanical
distributors could, using some driving styles offer better economy
but the vac version will, IF SET UP RIGHT, beat the mechanical on
economy over all IMHO.

The way to get the best of both worlds, againIMHO, is to have a
mechanical setup which will get you the 34 - 38 you need from 500 -
3500 rpm or on a touring engine perhaps earlier, maybe 2800 - 3000
rpm and set the vac up to get the perfect advance for best response
and least throttle at cruise and let every thing else fall where it
will. This is going to be my next test in fact.

In reality, and I said I was going to do this too, the cam profile
has a lot to do with exactly how soon you get the advance all in but
I haven't studied that enough yet to make a comment, yet. (somebody
grab my fingers!!!)


The swift of foot and slow of wit
have more off road experiences

- -- Gary --

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 08:45:11 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: Timing

> Date: Sun, 07 Sep 1997 23:15:46 -0500
> From: "Donald R. Screen"
> Subject: Re: Timing

> Hi Gary,
> I'm trying to understand your description...please let me know if
> this is right. You're saying that with a lighter spring, the vacuum
> advance will provide more advance at a given vacuum hg pressure. Is
> this correct? I thought pinging would occur with too much advance
> so wouldn't you use a heavier spring to cut down on the amount of
> vacuum advance? I'm confused...HELP!

That's what I thought at first too but found out that the manifold
vacuum goes to zero so will fully retard the vac at near WOT even
with light spring pressure so it's not the culprit. All my pinging
problems were at low rpm and heavy throttle so I discerned that the
initial was the problem. By backing it down to 8 and loosening the
vac I kept the cruise advance intact but retarded the initial so it
could back out more at low rpms but pull in more at cruise to
compensate. Since you spend more time at cruise it has more effect
on the economy so I direct most of my tuning efforts at this portion
of the rpm band. You really can have your cake and eat it too IMHO
:-)

> PS. Anyone out there got a recommendation for a good adjustable
> timing light? How much should I expect to spend on it? How about
> timing tape. Anybody using this and where did you get it? Did you

All the performance catalogs have timing tape but what do you use an
adjustable timing light for? I keep hearing about it but never used
one or heard what the purpose is?

The swift of foot and slow of wit
have more off road experiences

- -- Gary --

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 05:58:27 -0700
From: "Deacon Blues"
Subject: 460 for the '73 F100

I was talking to a friend of a friend last night who has a 460 in his
yard. He made a remark about giving it to me for my truck. I didn't rush him
on it but let him know I was interested in taking it off his hands! I would
like to build a quick swap engine that I could pop in for street legal drags
at Pamona Raceway. I've setup my engine so I can pull it relatively fast. If
I could setup the 460 the same way it could be an interesting alter-ego for
the F100! He has the 4x drive train to go with it. I would take it but I
have no interest in owning another 4x. I could clean-up the gear and sell it
to finance the setup of the 460.
Presently I have a C4 and 3.25s in a 9" rear. Among the parts I would
need are motor mounts and a way to connect the exhaust. If the engine is
complete what else would I need for this venture. I haven't seen the engine
so I don't know it's condition. The guy is a no BS Biker type and Tramps
tend not to make offers to Tramps they aren't willing to keep. But high
hopes are mother to disappoint, so I'm just kicking around the idea for now!
Later!



Deacon Blues
deconblu gte.net
'73 F100 302

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 08:58:39 -0400
From: Kevin Kemmerer
Subject: "tree forks" ranting

you bring up something that really gets me p*ss*d off lately!
the really stupid parts counter people at the big parts places. these guys
and girls have no clue! Now, even with a receipt at parts america, they
won't replace my universal joint that broke because the part in their new
box doesn't look like the broken part in my old box. but i haven't bought
universals anywhere else since i found out that they have a lifetime
garentee on the ones i use! their company changed the part. not me!
they seem totally ignorant of how to find a part without knowing make yeart
model engine transmission etc. my truck is a mutt! no parts are really
original and came from all kinds of sources! and have them actually look
in stock for a part "like this" and they go to lunch and never come back!
napa once gave me ripped gaskets, but refused to go back into the warhouse
to get a new box - i don't go there anymore. national can't seem to figure
out the right brake pad for anything i own, and in east stroudsburg pa tend
to hire airheaded girls that are there just for "looks" but can't tell me
where a 1/4 ntp to 1/8 ntp adapter might be on the shelf, 'cause it ain't
where i'd look for it.
this "too few forks in family tree" seems to have hit the local junk yards
too lately. i took in a yoke for a 9" rear that i broke. he says "what is
it from?"
"from a 9" rear."
"from what car?"
"a truck"
"what year truck?"
here's where i get aggrivated! it doesn't matter since there is really
only two kinds of yokes with some smaller variations of those two - take
the d*mn part i have to the shelves and see if you have one!

sorry for the ranting but i needed to get it out as the screaming i do at
the people doesn't seem to help and as of lately it is only getting worse.
those national auto ads lie, the parts guys really don't know cr*p about
cars, trucks, or even the basic operation of changing oil!

sleddog

- ----------
From: jniolon uss.com[SMTP:jniolon uss.com]
Sent: Monday, September 08, 1997 2:50 AM
To: fordtrucks ListService.net; duckdon pacific.net
Subject: check valve bleeders

Don,

Russell makes the check valve bleeders.

You can buy them direct from Russell for about 12.00 each (i think)

They tell me that AutoZone sells them..but none of the AZ boys ever
heard of them and mumble something about "...special order...duh maybe
5 or 6 weeks..duh what was them things called again". (minumum forks
in family tree)

I saw them in Hot Rod (i think) several months ago in one of those
little new product boxes. I would try Russell Direct. I don't have
the number with me today but will post it tomorrow..

Hope this helps

culater john







+-------------- Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1979 and Older --------------+
| Send posts to fordtrucks listservice.net, |
| Send Unsubscribe requests to fordtrucks-request listservice.net |
+-- Visit Our Web Site: http://www.ford-trucks.com/ --+

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 09:06:24 -0400
From: Kevin Kemmerer
Subject: RE: Timing

an adjustable timing light alows you to dial in the degrees on the light so
you really only look at the zero mark on the dampener. with one of these
you only need to mark true TDC on the dampaner and forget about the timing
tape. it is easier and faster to do timing with one.

sleddog


- ----------
From: Gary, 78 BBB[SMTP:gpeters3 ford.com]
Sent: Monday, September 08, 1997 4:45 AM
To: fordtrucks ListService.net
Subject: Re: Timing

> Date: Sun, 07 Sep 1997 23:15:46 -0500
> From: "Donald R. Screen"
> Subject: Re: Timing

> Hi Gary,
> I'm trying to understand your description...please let me know if
> this is right. You're saying that with a lighter spring, the vacuum
> advance will provide more advance at a given vacuum hg pressure. Is
> this correct? I thought pinging would occur with too much advance
> so wouldn't you use a heavier spring to cut down on the amount of
> vacuum advance? I'm confused...HELP!

That's what I thought at first too but found out that the manifold
vacuum goes to zero so will fully retard the vac at near WOT even
with light spring pressure so it's not the culprit. All my pinging
problems were at low rpm and heavy throttle so I discerned that the
initial was the problem. By backing it down to 8 and loosening the
vac I kept the cruise advance intact but retarded the initial so it
could back out more at low rpms but pull in more at cruise to
compensate. Since you spend more time at cruise it has more effect
on the economy so I direct most of my tuning efforts at this portion
of the rpm band. You really can have your cake and eat it too IMHO
:-)

> PS. Anyone out there got a recommendation for a good adjustable
> timing light? How much should I expect to spend on it? How about
> timing tape. Anybody using this and where did you get it? Did you

All the performance catalogs have timing tape but what do you use an
adjustable timing light for? I keep hearing about it but never used
one or heard what the purpose is?

The swift of foot and slow of wit
have more off road experiences

- -- Gary --






+-------------- Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1979 and Older --------------+
| Send posts to fordtrucks listservice.net, |
| Send Unsubscribe requests to fordtrucks-request listservice.net |
+-- Visit Our Web Site: http://www.ford-trucks.com/ --+

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 09:09:20 -0400
From: Kevin Kemmerer
Subject: RE: 460 for the '73 F100

a C6 tranny would help! i don't think even a built c4, (if the bolt pattern would match?) can take the brute of a 460 in a heavy truck.
sleddog

- ----------
From: Deacon Blues[SMTP:deconblu gte.net]
Sent: Monday, September 08, 1997 8:58 AM
To: fordtrucks ListService.net
Subject: 460 for the '73 F100

I was talking to a friend of a friend last night who has a 460 in his
yard. He made a remark about giving it to me for my truck. I didn't rush him
on it but let him know I was interested in taking it off his hands! I would
like to build a quick swap engine that I could pop in for street legal drags
at Pamona Raceway. I've setup my engine so I can pull it relatively fast. If
I could setup the 460 the same way it could be an interesting alter-ego for
the F100! He has the 4x drive train to go with it. I would take it but I
have no interest in owning another 4x. I could clean-up the gear and sell it
to finance the setup of the 460.
Presently I have a C4 and 3.25s in a 9" rear. Among the parts I would
need are motor mounts and a way to connect the exhaust. If the engine is
complete what else would I need for this venture. I haven't seen the engine
so I don't know it's condition. The guy is a no BS Biker type and Tramps
tend not to make offers to Tramps they aren't willing to keep. But high
hopes are mother to disappoint, so I'm just kicking around the idea for now!
Later!



Deacon Blues
deconblu gte.net
'73 F100 302







+-------------- Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1979 and Older --------------+
| Send posts to fordtrucks listservice.net, |
| Send Unsubscribe requests to fordtrucks-request listservice.net |
+-- Visit Our Web Site: http://www.ford-trucks.com/ --+

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 06:20:30 -0700
From: "Deacon Blues"
Subject: Re: Timing

>All the performance catalogs have timing tape but what do you use an
>adjustable timing light for? I keep hearing about it but never used
>one or heard what the purpose is?
>

Your timing mark is set at TDC you set the light for what you want the
timing to be. this way it's easy to time the engine to what ever you want
with out straining to see the marks on the HB or seeing your timing light
being sucked into the fan belt because you were looking for the timing mark
and not paying attention to where the light is.

Deacon Blues
deconblu gte.net
'73 F100 302

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 09:30:23 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: "tree forks" ranting

> From: Kevin Kemmerer
> Subject: "tree forks" ranting
> Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 08:58:39 -0400

> these guys and girls have no clue! Now, even with a receipt at
> parts america, they won't replace my universal joint that broke
> because the part in their new box doesn't look like the broken part
> in my old box. but i haven't bought universals anywhere else since

I think it depends a lot on the specific store you go to. I like the
AutoZone store in Adrian and I like the NAPA store in Blissfield and
Murray's has lots of good stuff at good prices but you do need to
know what you're doing most of the time to get the right stuff in any
case. When I build a "Mutt" I try to remember where all the parts
came from and ask for that model rather than the one I'm getting it
for or if I find a part from a different model I like better I jott
it down so next time I can get that instead. I personally
wouldn't want to work for the wages they make and so don't expect
very much from them since I'm sure many of them move on to better
things and don't get too deeply involved in selling parts. What can
be irritating to me is when the owner doesn't know much but tries to
come off like he does. I quit going to one place because I got tired
of being insulted all the time. (when you experiment a lot you can
get labled a trouble maker :-))

> napa once gave me ripped gaskets, but refused to go back into the
> warhouse

The box was ripped or the gaskets? Just curious :-)

The swift of foot and slow of wit
have more off road experiences

- -- Gary --

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 09:52:34 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: 460 for the '73 F100

> From: "Deacon Blues"
> Subject: 460 for the '73 F100
> Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 05:58:27 -0700

> Presently I have a C4 and 3.25s in a 9" rear. Among the parts I
> would

What engine is in there now? The 460 takes the C-6, big block
version and you will need L&L mounts and passenger side truck
manifold or headers to clear the frame and probably a larger radiator
which you can leave in for both engines (I'd say).

Do you have a quick removeable front clip? I made one like that once
and would like to do it for the bronco but the fenders fit under the
cowl which make is rather clutsy IMHO for a tip up so it's on the
back burner for now. Pull offs generally need two people and then
you have to put it somewhere so I decided to stay away from that too.

I think it would be neat if you could pull the hood, front radiator
frame, grill and bumper out of the way in one yank. Maybe when I
retire :-)

The swift of foot and slow of wit
have more off road experiences

- -- Gary --

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 06:53:30 -0700
From: "Deacon Blues"
Subject: Re: 460 for the '73 F100

>a C6 tranny would help! i don't think even a built c4, (if the bolt
pattern would match?) can take the brute of a 460 in a heavy truck.
>sleddog

It has a C6 bolted to it but I'm counting it out. I believe some one
asked some time ago about replacing a C6 in their 4X with one from a 2X and
it was posted that the tail shaft was different. Is this correct? I would
like to switch both when doing this. It makes it quicker and easier than
just switching the engine. Out of curiosity what makes the C6 stronger? Also
is an automatic the best for the application.




Deacon Blues
deconblu gte.net
'73 F100 302

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 10:05:01 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: Timing

> From: "Deacon Blues"
> Subject: Re: Timing
> Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 06:20:30 -0700

> timing light being sucked into the fan belt because you were looking
> for the timing mark and not paying attention to where the light is.

You've done that too? Ooooooooouuuuuuuuch! Me too :-(

The swift of foot and slow of wit
have more off road experiences

- -- Gary --

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 07:10:11 -0700
From: "Deacon Blues"
Subject: Re: "tree forks" ranting

Not in defense of auto part store employees but their intellectuals
compared to computer store counter jerks! Back to the subject. When I was
looking for valve seals for my truck I was told they needed to order them
every where I went. It turned out they were looking at valve guides. They
had over 100 seals in stock. Now I look at the screen when their looking up
my parts.


Deacon Blues
deconblu gte.net
'73 F100 302

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 08 Sep 1997 10:09:53 -0400
From: "John F. Bauer III"
Subject: 460 rear engine seal leaking?

Group:

I recently noticing more and more engine oil leaking where the C6 bolts onto
my 77 E250 460 (bottom where the bell housing meets engine "plate", hope
that explains it, can you tell I'm a novice?) In discussing this with
others who haven't seen my van, they immediately point to the rear engine
seal as the culprit. I've noticed when on an incline sloping towards the
front the engine, no noticible oil drips, when on an incliding sloping
towards the back of the engine, notice oil drips. Definitely notice loss on
engine oil on the dip stick with no change in trans. oil level.

Is this rear seal the bad guy?

If so, checked the Ford service manual (thanks Cleveland Public Library
system!) and they list a procedure involving removal of engine oil pan, oil
pump. Dropping cam 1/32" (sounds scarry to this novice, does this 1/32"
real make/break the repair), removal/replace seal with new engine oil coated
seal and put everything back together.

Is it really this easy or can things go wrong in a hurry?

Any advice someone could pass along to this novice would be greatly appreciated!

John

77 E250 4WD 460, C6 custom
96 F150 2WD daily driver

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 10:27:25 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: 460 for the '73 F100

> From: "Deacon Blues"
> Subject: Re: 460 for the '73 F100
> Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 06:53:30 -0700

> correct? I would like to switch both when doing this. It makes it
> quicker and easier than just switching the engine. Out of curiosity
> what makes the C6 stronger? Also is an automatic the best for the
> application.

Your application would require the car or 2wd version and if you look
at the imput shafts on both you will see part of the difference. The
main difference is in the diameter of the first gear clutch assy and
much stouter parts throughout.

You may have a drive shaft length problem but not sure and if you
really want to drag it get a Lenco. Course that won't be stock. The
C-6 can be made to shift much quicker than you would ever learn to do
by hand and it won't miss shifts (if set up right) the 460 will
probably break almost any manual you put in for a drag application
unless you get exotic like with the Clark 250 or similar.

The swift of foot and slow of wit
have more off road experiences

- -- Gary --

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 08 Sep 1997 08:58 -0400 (EDT)
From: jniolon uss.com
Subject: ford posi 9"

looking for a traction loc or limited slip ford 9" differential
something between 2.75 and 3.5 gear...this will be a cruisen machine.

The rearend is cut down and complete so I don't need the housing just
the 3rd member

I'm in Birmingham so one in the Southeast United States is
preferred..freight on those devils is high.

Come on guys,, it's out there under that old tarp and you need to cut
grass there anyway and you if you haven't used it yey you don't need
it anyway.....

thanks john

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 08 Sep 1997 10:35:45 -0400
From: shoman p3.net
Subject: Re: 460 rear engine seal leaking?

John
your not gonna drop the cam its the rear cap for the crank..You need
to do this so you can push the old seal out...Its not that tough
as long as you have a helper and a cherry picker(engine hoist)
Joe

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 10:52:40 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: 460 rear engine seal leaking?

> Date: Mon, 08 Sep 1997 10:09:53 -0400
> From: "John F. Bauer III"
> Subject: 460 rear engine seal leaking?

> engine oil pan, oil pump. Dropping cam 1/32" (sounds scarry to this
> novice, does this 1/32" real make/break the repair), removal/replace
> seal with new engine oil coated seal and put everything back
> together.

Don't know why the cam is involved but it's not especially easy if....


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