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Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 17:20:43 -0600 (MDT)
From: owner-fordtrucks-digest ListService.net (fordtrucks-digest)
To: fordtrucks-digest ListService.net
Subject: fordtrucks-digest V1 #191
Reply-To: fordtrucks ListService.net
Sender: owner-fordtrucks-digest ListService.net


fordtrucks-digest Thursday, September 4 1997 Volume 01 : Number 191



=======================================================================
Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1979 And Older Trucks Digest
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message.
=======================================================================
In this issue:

RE: Oil pressure and 390FE..... [Kevin Kemmerer ]
RE: cc'ing heads [Kevin Kemmerer ]
pilot bearing removal ["Dave Resch"]
Re: Bleeding Brakes ["Gary, 78 BBB" ]
Re: pilot bearing removal [marko helix.net (marko maryniak)]
Re: Bleeding Brakes [John MacNamara ]
Re: pilot bearing removal ["Gary, 78 BBB" ]
Re: Bleeding Brakes ["Gary, 78 BBB" ]
Re: Brakes.... ["Gary, 78 BBB" ]
Re: rearend/tranny combo's [SuperMagot aol.com]
Re: pilot bearing removal ["Mark Mech" ]
Re: Oil pressure and 390FE..... [Mike Schwall ]
Re: pilot bearing removal [Mike Schwall ]
Re: '64 F100 Rear End Q's [Don Grossman ]
Re: 1937-48 Ford V-8 Engines [Randall679 aol.com]
Re: cc'ing heads [sdelanty sonic.net]
Re: Oil pressure and 390FE.... [sdelanty sonic.net]

=======================================================================

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 12:45:08 -0400
From: Kevin Kemmerer
Subject: RE: Oil pressure and 390FE.....

i would try something simple first. you said that the previous owner used
straight 30 wt. it may not have been a detergant oil. what you have now
is. so, your oil may have in it all the crap from before that the old oil
didn't hold in suspension. but it can only hold so much and the rest get
deposited around the oil passages. try changing the oil & filter again.
if you don't mind the couple of bucks to do it. it may take a little time
to "clean out the engine". a detergant oil used after a nondetergant oil
may also clog the oil filter faster. you may find that just swapping in a
new one shows a change. just my $.02
sleddog

- ----------
From: Paul[SMTP:psconk znet.com]
Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 1997 3:41 PM
To: fordtrucks-digest ListService.net
Subject: Oil pressure and 390FE.....

I've got a stock 1975 F250 with 4 speed and above mentioned 390
w/about 100,000 miles. The oil pressure seems to take an abnormally long
time to build up after start. Oil pressure on start up takes approx 05 to
10
sec to begin moving the oil pressure gauge needle(stock gauge w/the engine
hot or cold). The valve train will do the "no oil" rattle until the gauge
begins to move so I believe the guage is at least correctly giving
indication of oil pressure. The prior owner had used 30w straight weight.
I changed oil to Castrol 20w-50 and Fram PH-8A filter and after the first
start to circulate the fresh oil(05 to10 sec wait for an indication of oil
pressure); every start afterwards oil pressure indication would begin
almost
immediately after start up. I dissasembled the old filter and everything
looked normal and the AC part number crossed with the Fram(what was THAT
doing in there!?!?). The odd thing is that w/200 miles on the new oil, the
oil pressure is again taking 05 to 10 sec for an indication on start up.
Is
this the correct oil filter for the FE engine? Is there an anti-drain on
the engine to prevent oil starvation on startup because the oil filter is
horizontal? Any FE guru's out there have a similar experience? Is this an
indication of a failing oil pump? Is it.....ugh...normal? Any input,
suggestions, theories would be greatly appreciated. I will be connecting a
test fixture to check for low oil pressure before the week is out but it
will probably raise more questions than it answers.


Thanks, a new old Ford truck owner







+-------------- Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1979 and Older --------------+
| Send posts to fordtrucks listservice.net, |
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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 13:12:34 -0400
From: Kevin Kemmerer
Subject: RE: cc'ing heads

on my 73 460 heads i cc'd them and they ent between 90-100cc i didnot have
a barret, just a graduated cyl. so i thought some error was expected. from
the factory there is a decent variation, but i do not know how much. any
valve work that was done on the heads previously can change the volume from
cyl. to cyl. if it wasn't done properly. in fact that is one way (seat
cutting) to even up the chamber vulome 'tween cyl.

unless you are going for more than 480 hp or so, i wouln't be concerned.
over that, or over 9.5.1 i would polish the chambers and even out the
volumes (after milling head if required).

10cc will change the compression about a half point around 9:1, and almost
a whole point around 10:1. as the required comp ratio increases, the
difference 10cc's make also increases. at over 11:1, it will change more
than one point.

one point compression change accross the whole motor (8 cyl.s) will change
the power about %4 as a rule of thumb.

check for recessed valves or different valves (with/w.out a small dish) in
the head.

and, some people forget when cc'ing to use the plugs that will be installed
in the engine - as that does change the volume a small amount.

sleddog

- ----------
From: jniolon uss.com[SMTP:jniolon uss.com]
Sent: Thursday, September 04, 1997 3:10 AM
To: fordtrucks ListService.net; fordnatics lists.best.com
Subject: cc'ing heads


Gentlemen,

I am rebuilding a '75 Lincoln 460 and have a question about cc'ing the
heads.

The casting #'s are D3VE and D_VE. I wanted to make sure they were
the same and verify the volume, so I borrow a 50 ml Burrette, clean
the heads, drill the plexiglas and start measuring.....

I've done 3 chambers on one head and the read 107cc, 97cc, and 102cc
respectively..somewhat puzzled I switched to the other head and it
read 105cc.

Is this normal for such a wide range ? I installed plugs, saw no
leaks when doing the measuring. Is 10cc a large difference ? What
does this do to compression ratios with such a (large ?) descrepancy ?

Your contributions to my education will be greatly appreciated.

thanks in advance

john






+-------------- Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1979 and Older --------------+
| Send posts to fordtrucks listservice.net, |
| Send Unsubscribe requests to fordtrucks-request listservice.net |
+-- Visit Our Web Site: http://www.ford-trucks.com/ --+

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 12:16:35 -0600
From: "Dave Resch"
Subject: pilot bearing removal

OK Guys, need help:

After suffering through the last few weeks in our spare car (my wife's
ex-car '84 Escort 1.6 HO - ha ha!) while work kept me too busy to fix the
clutch in my F250/351M/NP435, I've finally pulled everything out of the
truck.
Looking at the Haynes and Chiltons pictures, I thought (kinda hoped,
fingers crossed) that the pilot bearing was pressed into the flywheel
center. Well, the flywheel's on the garage floor now and the pilot bearing
is pressed into the back flange of the crankshaft (damn!).

Looking at it a little bit and poking a little bit with a Big screwdriver,
it looks like it'll be a SOB to get out. Is there a special tool for this
(like an inverted gear puller w/ the little hooks pointed out)? The old
bearing is pretty well hashed, w/ at least 160K miles that I know of on it,
so I don't care about saving it. Is there a way to get the pilot bearing
out w/out a special tool?

Thanks in advance for any advice/help/sympathy.

Dave R. (M-block devotee)
1980 F250 4x4 351M

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 14:24:26 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: Bleeding Brakes

> Date: Thu, 04 Sep 1997 10:08:07 -0700
> From: John MacNamara
> Subject: Re: Bleeding Brakes

> a problem here as the pedal is still mushy. I think I need to check
> into this pressure bleed as I have heard several members mention it

Ok, so how would one pressure bleed the brakes? With the master
cylinder at rest the ports to the resivoir should be open so fluid
could conceiveably be pushed backward through the bleeders but what
equipment would you use? Squeeze bottle? Pump? Another master
cylinder?

The swift of foot and slow of wit
have more off road experiences

- -- Gary --

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 04 Sep 1997 11:24:50 -0700
From: marko helix.net (marko maryniak)
Subject: Re: pilot bearing removal

>
>OK Guys, need help:
>
>After suffering through the last few weeks in our spare car (my wife's
>ex-car '84 Escort 1.6 HO - ha ha!) while work kept me too busy to fix the
>clutch in my F250/351M/NP435, I've finally pulled everything out of the
>truck.
>Looking at the Haynes and Chiltons pictures, I thought (kinda hoped,
>fingers crossed) that the pilot bearing was pressed into the flywheel
>center. Well, the flywheel's on the garage floor now and the pilot bearing
>is pressed into the back flange of the crankshaft (damn!).
>
>Looking at it a little bit and poking a little bit with a Big screwdriver,
>it looks like it'll be a SOB to get out. Is there a special tool for this
>(like an inverted gear puller w/ the little hooks pointed out)? The old
>bearing is pretty well hashed, w/ at least 160K miles that I know of on it,
>so I don't care about saving it. Is there a way to get the pilot bearing
>out w/out a special tool?
>

I use a cheap ($5) imported dent puller and use light taps all the way
around the hole. Or, you could use a long screw/bolt (insert the head thru
the hole, and put the lip of the head on one side, grip the end of the screw
with a large set of vise grips, and tap the vise grips lightly with a hammer).

Whatever you do, don't whale on the puller as you may mess up the thrust
bearing of the crank.

Oh yeah, use lotsa penetrating oil and don't use heat.

good luck,



marko in vancouver
marko helix.net
71 f250 4x4

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 04 Sep 1997 11:44:55 -0700
From: John MacNamara
Subject: Re: Bleeding Brakes

Gary, 78 BBB wrote:
>
> > Date: Thu, 04 Sep 1997 10:08:07 -0700
> > From: John MacNamara
> > Subject: Re: Bleeding Brakes
>
> > a problem here as the pedal is still mushy. I think I need to check
> > into this pressure bleed as I have heard several members mention it
>
> Ok, so how would one pressure bleed the brakes? With the master
> cylinder at rest the ports to the resivoir should be open so fluid
> could conceiveably be pushed backward through the bleeders but what
> equipment would you use? Squeeze bottle? Pump? Another master
> cylinder?
>
> The swift of foot and slow of wit
> have more off road experiences
>
> -- Gary --
> +-------------- Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1979 and Older --------------+
> | Send posts to fordtrucks listservice.net, |
> | Send Unsubscribe requests to fordtrucks-request listservice.net |
> +-- Visit Our Web Site: http://www.ford-trucks.com/ --+
Gary: Obviously this is something that is done at a shop. I never
heard of this procedure before I joined the list so don't know the
particulars. Maybe someone else on the list can help you with the
answer to your question.

Thanks

John

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 15:02:29 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: pilot bearing removal

> From: "Dave Resch"
> Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 12:16:35 -0600
> Subject: pilot bearing removal

> screwdriver, it looks like it'll be a SOB to get out. Is there a
> special tool for this (like an inverted gear puller w/ the little
> hooks pointed out)? The old bearing is pretty well hashed, w/ at

Yes and I paid a reduculous amount for it too! It's a slide hammer
affair with an adjustable hook which I actually got to pull wheel
bearing seals but it will work well for rear axle bearing races, C-6
rear drive shaft bushings, front seals and amazingly enough the pilot
bearing. I made a better one for seals with two opposing hooks but
broke the hooks (4140 crmoly, case hardened) trying to pull the races
so I bought this one from auto parts (NAPA) for around $50. It won't
break but it doesn't have the "finness" mine had either IMHO :-)

The swift of foot and slow of wit
have more off road experiences

- -- Gary --

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 15:14:22 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: Bleeding Brakes

> Date: Thu, 04 Sep 1997 11:44:55 -0700
> From: John MacNamara
> Subject: Re: Bleeding Brakes

> Gary: Obviously this is something that is done at a shop. I never
> heard of this procedure before I joined the list so don't know the
> particulars. Maybe someone else on the list can help you with the
> answer to your question.

Sorry, John, I meant to send it to the list, wasn't paying attention
to the address :-)

The swift of foot and slow of wit
have more off road experiences

- -- Gary --

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 15:27:48 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: Brakes....

> Date: Wed, 03 Sep 1997 10:45:16 -0700
> From: John MacNamara
> Subject: Re: Brakes....

> changed it. I am more interested in the fact that a previous
> gentleman suggested that there is a unique master cylinder for an
> F350 that has a larger piston than a F250. This sounds like what I
> need but I sent a response asking if there is a way to identify the
> two different master cylinders.

When I went looking for my 67 I went to the parts store and asked for
a big ford master cylinder. We went through the boxes till we found
one I liked.

You could just ask for one for the 350 at the parts store and get a
rebuilt one almost as cheap as at a junk yard I should think :-) At
least you would be able to see what it looks like.

The swift of foot and slow of wit
have more off road experiences

- -- Gary --

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 16:24:48 -0400 (EDT)
From: SuperMagot aol.com
Subject: Re: rearend/tranny combo's

Finding a 3-speed automatic will be easy.
The C-6 is a very sturdy transmission and there are many out there for the FE
blocks.

What you will have problems finding in an auto with an overdrive. To my
knowledge there are no 4 speed autos that will work with an FE.

Neither the A40D or E40D has the proper bolt pattern. If you have the cash
and the paintenance look around for a 5 or 6 speed manual that has the
overdrive you want.

Another option is to go with the wide gear C-6 and put in a lower
(numerically lower) rear end gear set. (Like 3.0 or so). That will give you
a good combo of a low first gear for 4 bying or towing, and the rear end gear
will keep your mileage from being to bad.

I had a 72 F-100 with a 360 and C-6 with 3.0 gears and used it for towing and
got decent mileage.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 13:56:17 -0700
From: "Mark Mech"
Subject: Re: pilot bearing removal

There is a tool for pulling a pilot bearing that consists of a threaded
fitting that you screw into the pilot hole and it has a zirk fitting on it.
You then hook your grease gun to it and pump the bearing out with grease. I
believe the tool is under $10.00 and it works well, I've used it.



Mark Mech
1913 E. El Parque
Tempe, Arizona 85282
aerofoam earthlink.net
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://home.earthlink.net/~aerofoam/

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 04 Sep 1997 15:48:52 -0500
From: Mike Schwall
Subject: Re: Oil pressure and 390FE.....

At 07:41 PM 9/3/97 -0700, you wrote:
> I've got a stock 1975 F250 with 4 speed and above mentioned 390
>w/about 100,000 miles.
> The oil pressure seems to take an abnormally long
>time to build up after start. Oil pressure on start up takes approx 05 to 10
>sec to begin moving the oil pressure gauge needle(stock gauge w/the engine
>hot or cold). The valve train will do the "no oil" rattle until the gauge
>begins to move so I believe the guage is at least correctly giving
>indication of oil pressure.

Sounds like an engine that had a rough life. It could be considered
normal. To get by without doing a much needed overhaul, install a Melling
(or any other good brand) high volume oil pump. After the pump install,
change the oil to 10W-40. You won't get the needed volume with 20W-50
using a HV oil pump, you'll just get lots of pressure.

Are you sure the rattle you are hearing is the valve train, or rather the
rods/mains? On older worn out motors, the oil clearances in the main and
rod bearings open up and take more oil volume to fill the gaps. With lack
of volume and pressure, the parts bang around until there is sufficient oil
volume to cushion the parts.

What is your normal hot-running oil pressure? If the oil pressure takes a
long time to build, and is under 20 psi at hot idle, change the pump.

Mike

_____________________________________________

Email: mikes intix.net
Home Page: http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.intx.net/mikes

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 04 Sep 1997 15:57:27 -0500
From: Mike Schwall
Subject: Re: pilot bearing removal

At 12:16 PM 9/4/97 -0600, you wrote:
>
>OK Guys, need help:
>Well, the flywheel's on the garage floor now and the pilot bearing
>is pressed into the back flange of the crankshaft (damn!).
>
>Looking at it a little bit and poking a little bit with a Big screwdriver,
>it looks like it'll be a SOB to get out. Is there a special tool for this
>(like an inverted gear puller w/ the little hooks pointed out)?

Simple fix. Get a metal rod (steel, brass, etc.) that fits into the pilot
bearing snugly. Fill the hole in the pilot bearing with grease and use a
hammer to drive the grease in. Simple hydraulics. Grease goes in, bearing
comes out - usually :)

Good luck,

Mike

_____________________________________________

Email: mikes intix.net
Home Page: http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.intx.net/mikes

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 04 Sep 1997 14:16:35 -0800
From: Don Grossman
Subject: Re: '64 F100 Rear End Q's

Gary, 78 BBB wrote:
>
> > From: Jeffrey.Carver Aerojet.com (CARVER, JEFFREY D)
> > Subject: '64 F100 Rear End Q's
> > Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 05:50:34 -0700
>
> > My '64 F-100 is having problems stopping. I found
> > differential fluid coming out and proceeded to dismantle
> > the brakes to replace the axle seal. The unit came apart
>
> Can't remember what the 64 axle looks like but if it has the square
> retainer plate and sealed bearing the bearing is the seal AIR. If it
> has the later style tapered bearing with separate seal between the
> axle flange and bearing then the hearing must be removed to replace
> it and unless you are very carefull and have the right equipment the
> bearing will be damaged and need replacing as well.

On the 63, it used the sealed bearing and an axle seal just inside the
housing. If it is dammaged when replacing the axle it will leak. If
there is a small bend in the end of the housing it will leak. When you
replace the seal add some RTV to the surface that contacts the housing.
There might still be a little oil that will go arround the seal if you
don't.
> This type of seal is easily damaged when re-installing the axle so be
> carefull and watch all around it as you push the shaft in so that it
> doesn't get caught and torn on the axle housing.

- --
Don Grossman
duckdon pacific.net


63 Ford F-250 4x4 67' 390, t-98, Spicer 24, Dana 60, Dana 44

Phase 172: rebuild front suspension

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 18:31:33 -0400 (EDT)
From: Randall679 aol.com
Subject: Re: 1937-48 Ford V-8 Engines

GENE:
I WOULD LIKE A COPY LET ME KNOW WHAT YOU NEED (PAYMENT IN ADVANCE OR WHAT)

THANKS

RANDY PEDERSEN

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 16:16:54 -0700
From: sdelanty sonic.net
Subject: Re: cc'ing heads

>
> Gentlemen,
>
> I am rebuilding a '75 Lincoln 460 and have a question about cc'ing the
> heads.
>
> The casting #'s are D3VE and D_VE. I wanted to make sure they were
> the same and verify the volume, so I borrow a 50 ml Burrette, clean
> the heads, drill the plexiglas and start measuring.....
>
> I've done 3 chambers on one head and the read 107cc, 97cc, and 102cc
> respectively..somewhat puzzled I switched to the other head and it
> read 105cc.
>
> Is this normal for such a wide range ? I installed plugs, saw no
> leaks when doing the measuring. Is 10cc a large difference ? What
> does this do to compression ratios with such a (large ?) descrepancy ?


Yes, that's quite a large discrepency in chamber volumes...
97cc to 107cc is aprox 10% which is a lot!!

The 2 big culprits that can cause this are:

1) Ford did a sh!tty job on the castings..

2) Someone did a crummy valve job on it.
If the valve seats are cut to different depths, it sinks some valves
further than others and can affect chamber volume considerably.
Put the valves and springs back in and lay a straighedge across the valve
stem tips. If they are all at way different hieghts You may wanna have
a *good* valve job done to straighten things out.
If the stems are at reasonably similar hieghts than You may wanna take
the die grinder or dremel tool to the smallest chambers and open them up
a bit to match the larger ones.

It's a good excuse to remove all sharp cumbustion chamber edges and
exposed plug threads anyway...

I would try and equalize things so that the comp ratios in all cylinders
are within .25 or so of each other. Closer is better if You have the patience.

Piston/deck volume can also vary considerably between cylinders, so
it's worthwile to measure that also before grinding away at the heads.

I've not done any serious 429/460 work, but just for an apples/oranges
comparison, here's volume data I took when I opened up my FE390...
( D3TE heads )

Cyl Head piston/deck gasket total Calculated
# volume volume volume volume C.R.

1 68.7 35.0 8 111.7 8.15
2 71.5 35.1 8 114.6 7.97
3 70.0 35.6 8 113.6 8.03
4 68.8 36.6 8 113.4 8.04
5 70.2 35.8 8 114.0 8.0
6 71.4 34.7 8 114.1 8.0
7 70.9 34.5 8 113.4 8.04
8 70.4 36.0 8 114.4 7.98


Happy motoring,

Steve Delanty
1971 F100 FE390 (patiently waiting for twin turbo's)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 16:17:07 -0700
From: sdelanty sonic.net
Subject: Re: Oil pressure and 390FE....

> I've got a stock 1975 F250 with 4 speed and above mentioned 390
>w/about 100,000 miles. The oil pressure seems to take an abnormally long
>time to build up after start. Oil pressure on start up takes approx 05 to 10
>sec to begin moving the oil pressure gauge needle(stock gauge w/the engine
>hot or cold). The valve train will do the "no oil" rattle until the gauge
>begins to move so I believe the guage is at least correctly giving
>indication of oil pressure.

10 seconds to get the needle to *begin* to move, or 10 secs to get normal
idle oil pressure?

10 seconds sounds like a long time to get up oil pressure, but I'd
be more curious about what kind of HOT pressure I had.
So what does the oil pressure look like at freeway speed when hot?
Where is it at hot idle?
(say on a scale of n-o-r-m-a-l )

I'd start by putting a real guage on it to see what You've got when hot.

>Is
>this the correct oil filter for the FE engine?

Yes, a PH8A is the right one for FE (and *many* other fords..)

>Is there an anti-drain on
>the engine to prevent oil starvation on startup because the oil filter is....


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