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Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 11:10:06 -0600 (MDT)
From: owner-fordtrucks-digest ListService.net (fordtrucks-digest)
To: fordtrucks-digest ListService.net
Subject: fordtrucks-digest V1 #190
Reply-To: fordtrucks ListService.net
Sender: owner-fordtrucks-digest ListService.net


fordtrucks-digest Thursday, September 4 1997 Volume 01 : Number 190



=======================================================================
Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1979 And Older Trucks Digest
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=======================================================================
In this issue:

cc'ing heads [jniolon uss.com]
Re: Oil pressure and 390FE..... ["Gary, 78 BBB" ]
Re: rearend/tranny combo's ["George Shepherd" ]
Re: cc'ing heads ["Gary, 78 BBB" ]
Re: Door Panels for 74 F250 [John MacNamara ]
Re: Brakes, an update [John MacNamara ]
Re: Timing Chain Questions ["Gary, 78 BBB" ]
Re: F 350 Brakes ["Gary, 78 BBB" ]
Re: Brakes, an update ["Gary, 78 BBB" ]
Re: microfilm/parts list [John MacNamara ]
Re: Frame Rivets ["Gary, 78 BBB" ]
Re: Brakes, an update ["Gary, 78 BBB" ]
Headers/Exhaust?? [Joe DeLaurentis ]
Bleeding Brakes [DWBaile aol.com]
Re: C6 Noise ["Gary, 78 BBB" ]
Re: '64 F100 Rear End Q's ["Gary, 78 BBB" ]
Re: Bleeding Brakes [John MacNamara ]
1937-48 Ford V-8 Engines ["Gene E. Bray" ]

=======================================================================

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 04 Sep 1997 07:10 -0400 (EDT)
From: jniolon uss.com
Subject: cc'ing heads


Gentlemen,

I am rebuilding a '75 Lincoln 460 and have a question about cc'ing the
heads.

The casting #'s are D3VE and D_VE. I wanted to make sure they were
the same and verify the volume, so I borrow a 50 ml Burrette, clean
the heads, drill the plexiglas and start measuring.....

I've done 3 chambers on one head and the read 107cc, 97cc, and 102cc
respectively..somewhat puzzled I switched to the other head and it
read 105cc.

Is this normal for such a wide range ? I installed plugs, saw no
leaks when doing the measuring. Is 10cc a large difference ? What
does this do to compression ratios with such a (large ?) descrepancy ?

Your contributions to my education will be greatly appreciated.

thanks in advance

john

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 09:35:55 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: Oil pressure and 390FE.....

> Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 19:41:14 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Paul
> Subject: Oil pressure and 390FE.....

> begin almost immediately after start up. I dissasembled the old
> filter and everything looked normal and the AC part number crossed
> with the Fram(what was THAT doing in there!?!?). The odd thing is

Ford Motor Craft makes one of the best filters on the market. Why
don't you use the ford filter? I believe the 8A is the same as the
FL1A Motor Craft in which case you should be right but I don't know
for sure if the FE's used a different one from the 351W of that year
which used the FL1A.

05 - 10 sec seems like a reasonable time for the pressure to build up
to me. All my engines have alway taken a few seconds to register on
the gauge. The sender is probably on the rear of the engine taken
off of the cam/lifer oil gallery which is the last place on the
engine to get oil. Some have the sender near the pump which might
give quicker pressure indication, don't know which you have.

Do you pre-fill the new filter when you change filters? It's
recommended :-)

The swift of foot and slow of wit
have more off road experiences

- -- Gary --

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 08:45:09 -0500
From: "George Shepherd"
Subject: Re: rearend/tranny combo's

Easy way would be to go with a 5 speed with 5th being an overdrive. There
are a lot of Clark's out there which can be had reasonable.

For Ford autos with overdrive, there are only 2 choices. An AOD from the
early 80's, but it would have to be rebuilt to be heavy duty as it would be
marginal with a 390 if it was rodded.

An E4OD would work, but youd have to buy an emulator and throttle position
sensor to run it as it is computer controlled.

Unless there is some physical reason she can't shift, I'd be patient and
teach her and go with the clark.

- ----------
> From: The Gautschi Family
> To: fordtrucks ListService.net
> Subject: rearend/tranny combo's
> Date: Wednesday, September 03, 1997 11:58 PM
>
> Our family just bought a 71 F 250 crew cab short bed to customize into
our
> own camp'in , cruz'in , off road machine. The truck is in excellent
> condition and a great place to start for us. My question is what
> suggestions do you all have for tranny/rearend combo's. The rig currently
> has a 390 (that will stay) and a 4 speed (1st is granny) and I'm not sure
> what the rear end is. I would like to put a newer auto in there with
> overdrive for better fuel mileage and make it easier for my wife to
drive.
> Keep in mind the rig will be used mainly for highway driving and some
light
> off roading.

>

> Thanks,

>

> Ron G.
>
> +-------------- Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1979 and Older --------------+
> | Send posts to fordtrucks listservice.net, |
> | Send Unsubscribe requests to fordtrucks-request listservice.net |
> +-- Visit Our Web Site: http://www.ford-trucks.com/ --+

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 09:45:11 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: cc'ing heads

> From: jniolon uss.com
> Date: Thu, 04 Sep 1997 07:10 -0400 (EDT)
> Subject: cc'ing heads

> I've done 3 chambers on one head and the read 107cc, 97cc, and
> 102cc respectively..somewhat puzzled I switched to the other
> head and it read 105cc.

Take a look at the valves in each chamber and compare the depth to
which they may have been ground in or if run very long on unleaded
may have recessed some due to wearing of the mating seat surfaces.
Ford valve seats were not inducton hardened till around 73 if I
remember correctly. I'm sure you cleaned them very well so there
are no carbon deposits right?

The swift of foot and slow of wit
have more off road experiences

- -- Gary --

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 04 Sep 1997 07:11:19 -0700
From: John MacNamara
Subject: Re: Door Panels for 74 F250

Keith Srb wrote:
>
> Does any body have any idea where I can get replacement door panels for a 74
> F250, OEM or custom built?
>
> Thanks
>
> TTFN
>
> Keith Srb herbie netvalue.net
> 1986 Ford Bronco II, 2.9L (I HATE LITERS) V-6, Mitsubishi 5-Speed.
> 1980 Harley Davidson, XLH, Rebuilt from the frame up.
> 1974 Ford F250 Ranger XLT, 390ci 4bbl, Automatic, Long Box, Style Side.
> 1966 Ford F100, 240 C.I. Straight Six, Warner T-18 4-Speed, Short Box.
> My Blood runs "TRUE BLUE FORD on Four Wheels and Pure HARLEY on Two Wheels!"
>
> +-------------- Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1979 and Older --------------+
> | Send posts to fordtrucks listservice.net, |
> | Send Unsubscribe requests to fordtrucks-request listservice.net |
> +-- Visit Our Web Site: http://www.ford-trucks.com/ --+

Keith: Try Jimmy Rose at JST Automotive in Lebanon Tennesee. I just
got through talkin to him and he has a 4000 foot warehouse with 68-79
Ford truck parts. I asked if he had door panels and he said he did.

Thanks
John MacNamara

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 04 Sep 1997 07:14:27 -0700
From: John MacNamara
Subject: Re: Brakes, an update

Gary, 78 BBB wrote:
>
> Weeeeeell, I've got my stainless steel braided flex lines on the
> bronco now, one for each axle, front and rear from Skyjacker (Cepek)
> and two wheel lines from Earl's. I think I know why some lines,
> though quality made are not dot approved, the originals had square
> banjo fittings on one end which fit into a square spot on the
> caliper so they could not be moved to loosen the banjo bolt. The
> new ones from Earl's have round banjos which may, over time, loosen
> from the tugging of the wheel while turning etc..
>
> I bought a double flare kit and finally learned how to make a good
> flare. (helps to turn the clamp around with the chamfer on the
> correct side) and discovered that I can make a slightly better flare
> if I leave just a tad more material sticking out initially than the
> book calls for. I don't think I will ever buy standard tubing again
> since it never quite fits the way I want and solid line eliminates
> potential leaks between the axles. It's really easy once you get the
> principles sorted out. I used a little anti-seize to lube the die
> which helped the forming process.
>
> Didn't have time to fully bleed the brakes last night but got most of
> the air out and have fairly solid pedal today on the way to work but
> still relatively little stopping power. It appears that the
> stainless lines have helped a bit with the pedal firmness and I was
> able to skidd a couple of tires at speed but it took just about all
> the power I could exert on the pedal to do it. I swear, I used to
> set up 4 wheel drums with less head ache than this!
>
> The other irritating thing is the uneveness of pressure on the
> wheels. It tends to pull in a panick stop so that it's really
> disconcerting. I've played with the drum adjustemet but this pull
> seems to be due to the front disks since it never pulls the same way
> twice. If I ever get this thing figured out I'll REALLY be an expert
> on brakes by golley! :-)
>
> The swift of foot and slow of wit
> have more off road experiences
>
> -- Gary --
> +-------------- Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1979 and Older --------------+
> | Send posts to fordtrucks listservice.net, |
> | Send Unsubscribe requests to fordtrucks-request listservice.net |
> +-- Visit Our Web Site: http://www.ford-trucks.com/ --+
Gary: I just got through talking to a Jimmy Rose in Lebanon Tennessee
about this brake problem and he said that in 78 Ford went to a 1 1/16"
master cylinder for all the f250's but in 1976, the master cylinder had
a diameter of 1 1/4". It sounds like we need the bigger master cylinder
so we can move more fluid.

Thanks
John MacNamara

78 F250 4X4 Supercab
67 GT500
66 Corvette

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 10:21:51 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: Timing Chain Questions

> From: Keith Srb
> Subject: Timing Chain Questions
> Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 14:58:25 -0700

> 1. Does anyone make a gear drive set to replace the chain and gears?

Not familiar with the markings on the FE's but usually the block will
have an arrow for the crank at the top and the cam will have a mark
on the bottom also on the block and some I've seen simply line the
marks up so they face each other (which would be the case mentioned
above as well) but without marks on the block.

I personally like the Pete Jackson design with it's double gear setup
and will be using them on my next 460 build up but have no
experience with them as yet. I hear they're pretty noisy but some
models can be had with silent or teflon coated gears.

The silent chain is still a pretty good way to go and only costs
about $50 but doesn't have the tech appeal of the gears :-)

The swift of foot and slow of wit
have more off road experiences

- -- Gary --

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 10:40:30 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: F 350 Brakes

> From: "The Zahn's"
> Subject: Re: F 350 Brakes
> Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 21:21:06 -0700

> It has always been very slow to stop but it also has panic stopped
> when I really stomped on the pedal. It has 4 wheel drum brakes with
> duel wheels in the rear. I always keep a safe distance between me
> and the cars in front of me whenever possible. FredZ

For some reason Ford uses a cantilever arrangement between the brake
pedal and booster which cuts pedal effort in half. That is, it
reduces the effort at the booster so that you have to apply twice as
much pressure for the same result so that the booster simply
nullifys the cantilever and returns your efforts back to standard,
non boosted pedal pressures. I've never understood that thinking???

I'd rather have straight access to the master cylinder without the
mushyness of the booster in that case. My 67 had unboosted hydraulic
drum brakes and stopped fairly well. I put a 48 GMC buss axle under
it with dual wheel cylinders and a larger diameter piston master
cylinder and the pedal stopped hard after only an inch or so of
travel. Still required some effort for a panic stop but at least it
felt like it had brakes.

My bronco feels like I could keep pushing till the pedal eventually
hit the floor, like pressing on a big spring with no bottom to it and
at some point it eventually locks up but never with any certainty. I
believe I may have a bad pistion on the right front but don't have
time to fix it right now. It does work, just maybe not completely
freely so that it pulls to the left sometimes.

The new flex lines seem to have helped but it still doesn't ever feel
like I couldn't push a little harder and move it a little more. The
67 would hit bottom and absolutely stop solid after about 1" of
travel and there wasn't any indication that I could move it further,
like stepping on a brick instead of a spring. I prefer that feel
even though it requird considerable pressure to lock it up.

My son has a 91 F-150 which has what I call power brakes similar to
the T-Bird. That is the first Ford truck I've ever driven that felt
like it actually had power brakes. There is a serious temptation to
see if I could retrofit his system to the bronco but then he would
probably be upset the next time he stepped on the brakes :-)

The swift of foot and slow of wit
have more off road experiences

- -- Gary --

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 10:57:40 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: Brakes, an update

> Date: Thu, 04 Sep 1997 07:14:27 -0700
> From: John MacNamara
> Subject: Re: Brakes, an update

> Gary: I just got through talking to a Jimmy Rose in Lebanon
> Tennessee about this brake problem and he said that in 78 Ford went
> to a 1 1/16" master cylinder for all the f250's but in 1976, the
> master cylinder had a diameter of 1 1/4". It sounds like we need
> the bigger master cylinder so we can move more fluid.

John, I did that on a 67 with big truck rear end and dual cylinders
thinking that the larger duals on the truck rear end would require
more fluid but it made the pedal so hard it had no feel to it and
probably increased the required pedal pressure since larger master
cylinder pistons require more input effort for the same output
pressure. A smaller piston has to move further to push the same
amount of fluid but requires less effort. I have fairly hard pedal
now but still limited stopping power IMHO. I'm looking for T-Bird
type braking and may have to go to air brakes to get it :-(



The swift of foot and slow of wit
have more off road experiences

- -- Gary --

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 04 Sep 1997 07:31:34 -0700
From: John MacNamara
Subject: Re: microfilm/parts list

Dave Walbeck wrote:
>
> I'm curious if anyone out there knows where to get ahold of Ford
> microfiche/film or a Ford master parts catalog for 73-79 F series
> trucks. Any help would be appreciated.
> Please direct E-mail me
> Thanks
> Dave complete and total FORDNUT
>
> ______________________________________________________
> > +-------------- Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1979 and Older --------------+
> | Send posts to fordtrucks listservice.net, |
> | Send Unsubscribe requests to fordtrucks-request listservice.net |
> +-- Visit Our Web Site: http://www.ford-trucks.com/ --+
Dave: If you call Jimmy Rose at 615 443 3086, he has all the parts
books and would be glad to look up any part you need.

Thanks!
John MacNamara

78 F250 4X4 Supercab
67 GT500
66 Corvette

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 12:04:24 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: Frame Rivets

> From: RICHARD_GARBER HP-USA-om21.om.hp.com
> Date: Tue, 2 Sep 97 11:23:07 -0400
> Subject: Frame Rivets

> I removed the rear hangers to gain access to some rust. How do
> you replace the Hot Rivets??

I don't. I use grade 8 bolts sized for the holes. Rivits that heavy
require some serious equipment to properly install since it requires
upsetting the metal in the shank to fill all the voids etc.. Rivit
holes are generally an exact size so the bolts fit nicely IMHO.


The swift of foot and slow of wit
have more off road experiences

- -- Gary --

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 12:07:57 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: Brakes, an update

> Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 09:26:04 -0700
> From: John MacNamara
> Subject: Re: Brakes, an update

> notice in the manual that when bleeding the front brakes you need to
> pull the small plunger on the front of the distribution block.
> Unfortunately I haven't been able to find the tool called out in the
> manual, as Ford has obsolete it(of course).

I replaced the proportioning valve with a Summit adjustable one so
that's not a problem but I didn't know that either which may have
been a problem on other projects.

The swift of foot and slow of wit
have more off road experiences

- -- Gary --

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 04 Sep 1997 12:16:20 -0400
From: Joe DeLaurentis
Subject: Headers/Exhaust??

Where can I find a company for Headers and a dual exhaust for a 67-72
F-100????Will headers from a 66-77 Bronco with a small block work???
My 68 has a small block also.
Joe

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 12:31:51 -0400 (EDT)
From: DWBaile aol.com
Subject: Bleeding Brakes

In a message dated 97-09-03 06:01:28 EDT, you write:



> front of the distribution block. Unfortunately I haven't been able to
> find the tool called out in the manual, as Ford has obsolete it(of
> course).
> >>
Folks,
I have been reading this about bleeding brakes and scratching my head. I was
a practicing mechanic for about nine years and have been doing mechanic work
unofficially as long as I can remember. I have always either used a bleeder
ball or a vacuum pump to bleed brakes and have never touched anything on the
porportioning valve. The reason I use a tool to bleed brakes is that there
never seems to be anyone around that can follow instructions when I am ready
to bleed the brakes ("pump it twice, hooold it...") I have heard a lot of
folks talking about it lately, both on this list and the IH list. Is this
really a problem for folks? I always thought it was another instruction like
the ones for adjusting the camber on twin I beam front ends. The book says
not to bend them, but the special tool is an I beam with chains and a bottle
jack. Just curious.
Don

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 12:45:29 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: C6 Noise

> From: "Brett McCoy"
> Subject: C6 Noise
> Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 22:57:34 -0500

> it is coming from the trany. When ever the truck is running I hear
> a high pitched whine. The volume changes with engine RPM and will

Sounds like power steering pump to me. I never heard any whine from
a tranny which goes up and down with engine rpm?

> The guy I bought the truck from said that it was the "pump"? That

See above.

> what is this "wide range" C6 that I have seen you talking about?
> Did it come standard with the trailer towing package?

Wide ratio came with 78 trucks with certain packages but I don't know
which ones. I suspect there were many out there with this gear set
and probably only on the larger engines (351M and up). This is
serviced with the E4OD kit now from SVO.


The swift of foot and slow of wit
have more off road experiences

- -- Gary --

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 13:01:54 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: '64 F100 Rear End Q's

> From: Jeffrey.Carver Aerojet.com (CARVER, JEFFREY D)
> Subject: '64 F100 Rear End Q's
> Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 05:50:34 -0700

> My '64 F-100 is having problems stopping. I found
> differential fluid coming out and proceeded to dismantle
> the brakes to replace the axle seal. The unit came apart

Can't remember what the 64 axle looks like but if it has the square
retainer plate and sealed bearing the bearing is the seal AIR. If it
has the later style tapered bearing with separate seal between the
axle flange and bearing then the hearing must be removed to replace
it and unless you are very carefull and have the right equipment the
bearing will be damaged and need replacing as well.

This type of seal is easily damaged when re-installing the axle so be
carefull and watch all around it as you push the shaft in so that it
doesn't get caught and torn on the axle housing.

90 wt gear oil will certainly put a damper on the brakes and once
burned in the shoes are toast so you may as well replace them as well
IMHO :-)

The swift of foot and slow of wit
have more off road experiences

- -- Gary --

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 04 Sep 1997 10:08:07 -0700
From: John MacNamara
Subject: Re: Bleeding Brakes

DWBaile aol.com wrote:
>
> In a message dated 97-09-03 06:01:28 EDT, you write:
>
>
>
> > front of the distribution block. Unfortunately I haven't been able to
> > find the tool called out in the manual, as Ford has obsolete it(of
> > course).
> > >>
> Folks,
> I have been reading this about bleeding brakes and scratching my head. I was
> a practicing mechanic for about nine years and have been doing mechanic work
> unofficially as long as I can remember. I have always either used a bleeder
> ball or a vacuum pump to bleed brakes and have never touched anything on the
> porportioning valve. The reason I use a tool to bleed brakes is that there
> never seems to be anyone around that can follow instructions when I am ready
> to bleed the brakes ("pump it twice, hooold it...") I have heard a lot of
> folks talking about it lately, both on this list and the IH list. Is this
> really a problem for folks? I always thought it was another instruction like
> the ones for adjusting the camber on twin I beam front ends. The book says
> not to bend them, but the special tool is an I beam with chains and a bottle
> jack. Just curious.
> Don
> +-------------- Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1979 and Older --------------+
> | Send posts to fordtrucks listservice.net, |
> | Send Unsubscribe requests to fordtrucks-request listservice.net |
> +-- Visit Our Web Site: http://www.ford-trucks.com/ --+

Don: Here is what the manual says about the "bleeder rod":

On F100-F-150,F250 (up to 6800 GVW) including all 4X4 vehicles equipped
with sliding caliper disc brakes, the bleeder rod of the metering valve
must be pulled outward as shown in Fig..... On F-250 over 6800 GVW,
F350..., the bleeder rod must be pushed inward. This is to allow the
brake fluid to reach the caliper assemblies. This operation is
particularly important if pressure bleeding equipment is being used.

Since I replaced the metering valve, I know that I might still have a
problem here as the pedal is still mushy. I think I need to check into
this pressure bleed as I have heard several members mention it and I
think a truck of this size needs good brakes. My previous F250 stopped
on a dime so I know these brakes work when properly setup.

Thanks

John MacNamara

78 F250 4X4 Supercab
67 GT500
66 Corvette

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 04 Sep 1997 12:10:51 -0600
From: "Gene E. Bray"
Subject: 1937-48 Ford V-8 Engines

My subscription confirmation number: KEY: 7DC77EC-59C4688, now how about
posting my offer as follows:

>Date: Wed, 03 Sep 1997 21:31:11 -0600
....


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