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Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 12:53:43 -0600 (MDT)
From: owner-fordtrucks-digest ListService.net (fordtrucks-digest)
To: fordtrucks-digest ListService.net
Subject: fordtrucks-digest V1 #236
Reply-To: fordtrucks ListService.net
Sender: owner-fordtrucks-digest ListService.net


fordtrucks-digest Tuesday, September 23 1997 Volume 01 : Number 236



=======================================================================
Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1979 And Older Trucks Digest
Visit our web site: http://www.ford-trucks.com/
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email to the same address with the word "help" in the body of the
message.
=======================================================================
In this issue:

Need some help! ["deconblu" ]
RE: pumping oil - rear end [Sleddog ]
Re: Need some help! ["Gary, 78 BBB" ]
bolt patterns on rear [Sleddog ]
RE: Need some help! [Sleddog ]
Re: bolt patterns on rear ["Gary, 78 BBB" ]
Flathead 6V conversion ["Mitch Miller" ]
1977 F-150 [Dana Fayette ]
Re: Flathead Help [danadeb pacbell.net]
Re: 1977 F-150 ["Gary, 78 BBB" ]
Re: Acronyms [Tom Hogan ]
RE: bolt patterns on rear [Sleddog ]
Re: 351M Cam Timing ["Dave Resch"]
Re: Acronym [Claypaul aol.com]
Re: 1952 F1 HELP [Claypaul aol.com]
Re: Flathead Help [Claypaul aol.com]
Re: Flathead Help [Claypaul aol.com]
RE: bolt patterns on rear ["Gary, 78 BBB" ]
Re: 351M Cam Timing ["Gary, 78 BBB" ]

=======================================================================

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 05:42:56 -0700
From: "deconblu"
Subject: Need some help!

Hi Ken!
I know everything that's going on with the list can't be cheap! With the
split, a possible domain name the window stickers not to mention the hours
of administration you've been doing! Will you let us help!
List members! This is me asking. Ken has said and will no doubt say
again this list is free! The only association I have with Ken is the same
one all of us have!
Sometime ago Ken allowed us to donate (we suggested and we voted) no one
was asked to contribute. Ken posted what was donated but never who did or
didn't! A lot did. It was surprising how a buck here and a buck there added
up. Ken gave full disclosure how the money was spent even though no one
asked. I'm just letting new people know this so there is no mass panic that
there will be a charge. I have one vote like everyone else!
Ken, what you have done with the Homepage and the list I would say our
money was well spent. I would like to ask the list to second this proposal
and post their support and or thoughts! If 10% of this list donates $1.00
that will pay for the split. If 20% donates $1.00 that will pay for the
split and the domain name. If 90% donates $1.00 I know Ken will do with it
for us!
It's up to us people! Ken let us vote on everything he has done for us.
Lets vote on how we can say Thank you!


I Jim Strigas propose that we set-up a voluntary donation to the Ford Truck
Club! Is there a second?

Ken, can this be forward to the other list (or if the split has taken place,
lists) for their vote?


Deacon Blues
Visit my Homepage at http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://home1.gte.net/deconblu/
and http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.dragonfire.net/~site/tbirdknights/
or send me a fan or flame at deconblu gte.net not both. Never fan a flame!

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 09:15:43 -0400
From: Sleddog
Subject: RE: pumping oil - rear end

- ----------
From: marko maryniak[SMTP:marko helix.net]
Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 1997 2:52 AM
To: fordtrucks ListService.net
Subject: Re: pumping oil - rear end

(there was
>less than 100 miles on this oil) the filtered coffee, oops oil, looked
>brand new.
>
>
It seems what you didn't re-use, somebody heated up and sold for coffee
here
in my office!


that's how i pay for my expensive hobbies. i drain my oil and sell it to
the local coffee destributer. i have found that capaccino can be made with
a little bit of coolant and bearing material foaming on top.
:->

sleddog


marko in vancouver
marko helix.net 71 f250 4x4







+-------------- Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1979 and Older --------------+
| Send posts to fordtrucks listservice.net, |
| Send Unsubscribe requests to fordtrucks-request listservice.net |
+-- Visit Our Web Site: http://www.ford-trucks.com/ --+

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 09:05:50 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: Need some help!

> From: "deconblu"
> Subject: Need some help!
> Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 05:42:56 -0700

> I know everything that's going on with the list can't be cheap!
> With the
> split, a possible domain name the window stickers not to mention the
> hours of administration you've been doing! Will you let us help!

As I understand it the list is self supporting through certain
advertising arrangements but the work Ken does to maintain the list
as well as the web site is certainly worth considering. I have a job
which allows me lots of browsing time and a company that doesn't
monitor what I'm doing to any great extent so I am free to play with
my mail to my heart's content and in fact I would be going crazy if I
didn't have something to occupy my mind in here but not everyone has
that luxury. I don't do any mail or computer stuff at home at all
but I understand Ken spends some of his home time ministering to our
needs/desires.

Even though I'm sure he's doing this because he enjoys it, I'm also
sure that it can be a burden some times so I don't mind contributing
something. I wish I had time to figure out all this web stuff so I
could maintain a page myself. My associate and I are trying to set
up a "Tool Room" page on our intranet here at Ford but I don't have a
clue how to get started yet. I expect I will be getting into HTML
pretty soon so maybe some day will have some usefull skills but don't
have any right now for list management, sorry. I program and develop
in Access and DataEase and have some very rusty "C" experience but no
web stuff yet.

Ken needs to publish a PO box we can mail contributions to so his
address stays descrete. They aren't very expensive and would work
well for this type of thing IMHO :-)

The swift of foot and slow of wit
have more off road experiences

- -- Gary --

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 09:29:27 -0400
From: Sleddog
Subject: bolt patterns on rear

welcome to the axle from hell. last rebuild finished on saturday, but i
wanted to ask everyone a question. all the 9" rears i have dealt with up
until this last one had the same bolt pattern on the tube ends for the axle
retaining plate and brakes, etc.

this last one had a smaller pattern, it was from an '80's ford truck. i
had to press the bearings off and onto the good axle so i could use the
plate for my housing.

at the place that let me borrow their press, i was told that my style was
the odd style.

does anyone know if this was a change made a a certain year, or if it was
on different vehicles that the different bolt pattern was used. i could
just imagine it now going to the parts store - if i have the rarer bolt
pattern, then i'll never be able to find parts for it when i need to!

i don't know where my current housing came from, the new one is from an
80's ford.

also, i was told that many people put a small tack weld on the ring that
pesses on to hold the bearing in place for severe off roading or any
racing. has anyone heard of this being done?

sleddog

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 09:38:00 -0400
From: Sleddog
Subject: RE: Need some help!

where's my checkbook?
i am self employed and this list helps keep me sane on those days i spend
all day in front of this computer designing.
gary, you may find it very helpful and perhaps easy to do html with a
wysiwyg html editer like aolpress (free) or some other one. html is
simpler than BASIC by far and if you can do C, Access, etc than html should
be a breeze. (what ever happened to shipping computers with an easy to
learn programming language anyway??)

ok now, enough ford truck list stuff, got a new tool to make - deadline is
thursday.

sleddog

- ----------
From: Gary, 78 BBB[SMTP:gpeters3 ford.com]
Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 1997 5:05 AM
To: fordtrucks ListService.net
Subject: Re: Need some help!

> From: "deconblu"
> Subject: Need some help!
> Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 05:42:56 -0700

> I know everything that's going on with the list can't be cheap!
> With the
> split, a possible domain name the window stickers not to mention the
> hours of administration you've been doing! Will you let us help!

As I understand it the list is self supporting through certain
advertising arrangements but the work Ken does to maintain the list
as well as the web site is certainly worth considering. I have a job
which allows me lots of browsing time and a company that doesn't
monitor what I'm doing to any great extent so I am free to play with
my mail to my heart's content and in fact I would be going crazy if I
didn't have something to occupy my mind in here but not everyone has
that luxury. I don't do any mail or computer stuff at home at all
but I understand Ken spends some of his home time ministering to our
needs/desires.

Even though I'm sure he's doing this because he enjoys it, I'm also
sure that it can be a burden some times so I don't mind contributing
something. I wish I had time to figure out all this web stuff so I
could maintain a page myself. My associate and I are trying to set
up a "Tool Room" page on our intranet here at Ford but I don't have a
clue how to get started yet. I expect I will be getting into HTML
pretty soon so maybe some day will have some usefull skills but don't
have any right now for list management, sorry. I program and develop
in Access and DataEase and have some very rusty "C" experience but no
web stuff yet.

Ken needs to publish a PO box we can mail contributions to so his
address stays descrete. They aren't very expensive and would work
well for this type of thing IMHO :-)

The swift of foot and slow of wit
have more off road experiences

- -- Gary --






+-------------- Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1979 and Older --------------+
| Send posts to fordtrucks listservice.net, |
| Send Unsubscribe requests to fordtrucks-request listservice.net |
+-- Visit Our Web Site: http://www.ford-trucks.com/ --+

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 09:57:47 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: bolt patterns on rear

> From: Sleddog
> Subject: bolt patterns on rear
> Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 09:29:27 -0400


> does anyone know if this was a change made a a certain year, or if
> it was on different vehicles that the different bolt pattern was
> used. i could just imagine it now going to the parts store - if i
> have the rarer bolt pattern, then i'll never be able to find parts
> for it when i need to!

Ford went to the 8.8 rear end in 84 or thereabouts. The 8.8 uses "C"
clips like Ch---y's and has press "in" bearings and slip in axles
like the real old Fords. All 9" as far as I know use pressed on
bearings. There are at least two bearing sizes but I'm not sure what
the applications were. I like the older large bearing housings and
31 spline axles. Are your axles 31 spline with no neck down at the
spline? Does this axle housing use the third member pullout?


> also, i was told that many people put a small tack weld on the
ring
> that pesses on to hold the bearing in place for severe off roading
> or any racing. has anyone heard of this being done?
>
> sleddog
>
> +-------------- Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1979 and Older
> +--------------+
> | Send posts to fordtrucks listservice.net,
> | | Send Unsubscribe requests to
> fordtrucks-request listservice.net | +-- Visit Our Web Site:
> http://www.ford-trucks.com/ --+
>

The swift of foot and slow of wit
have more off road experiences

- -- Gary --

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 20:51:35 -0500
From: "Mitch Miller"
Subject: Flathead 6V conversion

There is one other option for those fed-up with the dim 6V lights.

You can go 12V... but you can also go 7V.

This provides brighter lights and more cranking power. You have to adjust
the voltage regulator, but you can leave everything else just the way it
is. Keep it original!

Mitch Miller
mmiller dryden.net

'46 pickup - stock
'47 sedan delivery - a work in progress
'88 bronco - crumbling...

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 07:21:20 -0700
From: Dana Fayette
Subject: 1977 F-150

My '77 has a 400 which I had built for performance cause the 351M
didn't pull it's weight. It came with a C-6 which I also had beefed
up somewhat, but in high gear it sounds like it desperately needs
another gear. Does anyone out there know of a 4 speed C-6, or an
overdrive C-6, that will bolt in directly without having to change my
transfer case (not that I wouldn't)?
Appreciate the help.

Dana

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 07:28:41 -0700
From: danadeb pacbell.net
Subject: Re: Flathead Help

Just some thoughts:



I think the burnt points is probably a result of too high a voltage to
the coil. Check voltage at the + side of the coil while the - side is
shorted to ground or the points are closed. ( engine not running ) Don't
leave it this way for more then a few minutes or you might fry the coil.
The voltage should be in the 8 to 6 volt range for a 12 volt coil. ( 6
volt coil with a voltage reducer, I have no idea )



Isn't the condenser supposed to help stop point burn? If there isn't one
on an old flat head maybe you could add one external on the distributor.



I agree that most 12 ignition systems use a ballast resistor but a while
back when I was looking for a stock coil I came upon an interesting
item. In the parts books there was an entry for coils with "internal or
external" resister. I assume ( and we all know where that can get us )
it meant there was an internal resister in the coil so an external one
would not be needed. Keep in mind I have never seen an older car / truck
without an external ballast resister and I am not even sure what the
application was for the internal one.


Dana

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 10:53:09 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: 1977 F-150

> From: Dana Fayette
> Subject: 1977 F-150
> Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 07:21:20 -0700

> My '77 has a 400 which I had built for performance cause the 351M
> didn't pull it's weight. It came with a C-6 which I also had beefed
> up somewhat, but in high gear it sounds like it desperately needs
> another gear. Does anyone out there know of a 4 speed C-6, or an
> overdrive C-6, that will bolt in directly without having to change
> my transfer case (not that I wouldn't)? Appreciate the help.

Get the wide ratio gear set and put in taller rear gears. The wide
ratio gives a better low gear with 1:1 third so you can run taller
rear gears and get better top end but still get off the line. I have
2.75's in my Pu with 460 and wide ratio from the factory in 78 and it
works well with stock 29" tires.

The wide ratio set is sold through SVO as E4OD replacements but works
in the C-6 as well :-)

The swift of foot and slow of wit
have more off road experiences

- -- Gary --

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 08:53:20 -0700
From: Tom Hogan
Subject: Re: Acronyms

Here's another one

F inal
I talian
A ttempt at
T ransportation

B etter
U se
I t
C arefully
K id

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 12:16:02 -0400
From: Sleddog
Subject: RE: bolt patterns on rear

it is a 9", 31 spline axle. it is the 4 bolts on the housing end that i
wasn't aware there were different ones till a couple of days ago. so i am
wondering when, or on which cars/trucks, did they change the bolt pattern.
the "new" one has a small bolt pattern. ( the 4 bolts that hold the brake
backing plate and axle retaining plate to the axle housing ) my "old" one
has a larger pattern. all else appears to interchange. the "new" one had
one ball bearing on one side, and a taper bearing on other side. my old
one has tapered bearings but used to be ball bearings up until my first
major rear rebuild.

sleddog

- ----------
From: Gary, 78 BBB[SMTP:gpeters3 ford.com]
Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 1997 5:57 AM
To: fordtrucks ListService.net
Subject: Re: bolt patterns on rear

> From: Sleddog
> Subject: bolt patterns on rear
> Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 09:29:27 -0400


> does anyone know if this was a change made a a certain year, or if
> it was on different vehicles that the different bolt pattern was
> used. i could just imagine it now going to the parts store - if i
> have the rarer bolt pattern, then i'll never be able to find parts
> for it when i need to!

Ford went to the 8.8 rear end in 84 or thereabouts. The 8.8 uses "C"
clips like Ch---y's and has press "in" bearings and slip in axles
like the real old Fords. All 9" as far as I know use pressed on
bearings. There are at least two bearing sizes but I'm not sure what
the applications were. I like the older large bearing housings and
31 spline axles. Are your axles 31 spline with no neck down at the
spline? Does this axle housing use the third member pullout?


> also, i was told that many people put a small tack weld on the
ring
> that pesses on to hold the bearing in place for severe off roading
> or any racing. has anyone heard of this being done?
>
> sleddog
>
> +-------------- Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1979 and Older
> +--------------+
> | Send posts to fordtrucks listservice.net,
> | | Send Unsubscribe requests to
> fordtrucks-request listservice.net | +-- Visit Our Web Site:
> http://www.ford-trucks.com/ --+
>

The swift of foot and slow of wit
have more off road experiences

- -- Gary --






+-------------- Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1979 and Older --------------+
| Send posts to fordtrucks listservice.net, |
| Send Unsubscribe requests to fordtrucks-request listservice.net |
+-- Visit Our Web Site: http://www.ford-trucks.com/ --+

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 10:48:00 -0600
From: "Dave Resch"
Subject: Re: 351M Cam Timing

>From: Sleddog
>Subject: RE: 351M Cam Timing
>snip
>difference is already ground in. only moving the factory cam makes a
>difference, as ford ground the cams 4 or so degrees off.
Since the cam controls the relative timing of intake and exhaust events
(i.e., valves opening and closing), along with the characteristics of those
events (i.e., duration, lift, overlap, etc.) there is no such thing as
grinding the cam x degrees off. All you have to do is rotate the cam -x
degrees and there is no difference. This procedure is known as "degreeing"
the cam.

The only way you could grind a cam differently would be to change the
relationship between intake and exhaust events (which would drastically
change the engine's operating characteristics), and as far as I know,
that's not how the cam was retarded by the factory. You'd have to retard
intake only or exhaust only, otherwise no retard can be ground in the cam
itself.

>From: DC Beatty
>Subject: RE: 351M Cam Timing
>
>In Pat Ganahl's book Ford Performance, page 84, there is a mention of
> Ford retarding cams: "One of the first things Ford did to meet smog
>restrictions, beginning in '72, was to retard the timing on existing
>camshafts." It has a picture of a multi-index crank (yes crank) sprocket.=
This is how cams are retarded or advanced, by changing the index between
the cam and the crank.

The original timing set I removed from my 351M had only one keyway on each
gear, so you could install them only according to the original factory
spec, which incorporated the cam retard. The Cloyes timing set I replaced
it with had three keyways on the crank gear, with one indexed to 0 degrees
(cam aligned with TDC on the crank), which is the true lobe profile design
of the cam. From there, you could advance or retard the cam by one keyway
either direction (+ or - 6 degrees?, I don't remember now), depending on
what you wanted the engine to do. At any rate, advancing or retarding the
cam does not change the relative positions of the lobes (i.e., the intake
and exhaust events).

As far as using a cam spec for a pre-'71 engine, that should not make any
difference. Using the factory original timing set for the engine might
make a difference, since that is where the cam retard is done. In the case
of an M-block engine, I would definitely rather have the later, post '77
truck cam with higher lift, if I was going to use a factory spec cam.

Dave R. (M-block devotee)
1980 F250 4x4 351M

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 13:59:11 -0400 (EDT)
From: Claypaul aol.com
Subject: Re: Acronym

How embarrassking.....! I hate it when that happens :-)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 14:07:22 -0400 (EDT)
From: Claypaul aol.com
Subject: Re: 1952 F1 HELP

I think you need new gas and/or get the water out of the tank.....

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 14:13:01 -0400 (EDT)
From: Claypaul aol.com
Subject: Re: Flathead Help

Burned points usually are the result of a bad condenser (capacitor) or lack
of an ignition resistor....

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 14:39:32 -0400 (EDT)
From: Claypaul aol.com
Subject: Re: Flathead Help

Sounds like his coil may have the resistor built into it- although I've not
heard of that before......?????

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 14:44:01 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: RE: bolt patterns on rear

> From: Sleddog
> Subject: RE: bolt patterns on rear
> Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 12:16:02 -0400

> the "new" one had one ball bearing on one side, and a taper bearing
> on other side. my old one has tapered bearings but used to be ball
> bearings up until my first major rear rebuild.

Seems like the first one I ever changed had sealed ball bearings and
a retainer similar to the taper bearings but I can't remember for
sure. I don't recall ever changing a Ford without pressed on
bearings but maybe a loooooong time ago I might have.

The parts house lists at least 2 sizes of bearings for the 9", small
and large what ever that means. I always ask for large since I'm
reasonsably sure trucks have large bearings. I have 3 axle housing
between the spare and two trucks and all have the same bearings,
don't know about the flange, never compared them. I think even the
28 spline set out of my track lock housing has the same bearings but
not sure right now.

The swift of foot and slow of wit
have more off road experiences

- -- Gary --

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 14:53:38 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: 351M Cam Timing

> From: "Dave Resch"
> Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 10:48:00 -0600
> Subject: Re: 351M Cam Timing
....


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