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Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 13:04:04 -0600 (MDT)
From: owner-fordtrucks-digest ListService.net (fordtrucks-digest)
To: fordtrucks-digest ListService.net
Subject: fordtrucks-digest V1 #222
Reply-To: fordtrucks ListService.net
Sender: owner-fordtrucks-digest ListService.net


fordtrucks-digest Wednesday, September 17 1997 Volume 01 : Number 222



=======================================================================
Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1979 And Older Trucks Digest
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=======================================================================
In this issue:

RE: Dual Exhaust for my 74 ["Gary, 78 BBB" ]
Re: Intake manifolds ["Gary, 78 BBB" ]
Re: Riddle me this!!!! ["Gary, 78 BBB" ]
Re: 460 intake suggestions ["Gary, 78 BBB" ]
RE: 460 intake suggestions [Sleddog ]
RE: 460 performance info [Sleddog ]
F350 Booster Use???Brakes?? [Joe D ]
Add on to brake question.. [Joe D ]
FMX shifting [John Strauss ]
Fall Carlisle Car Show [Joe D ]
Re: Question For Group ["Payne, Kenneth" ]
Re: C6 never making it to 3rd, missing shift linkage? ["John F. Bauer III]
RE: 460 intake suggestions ["Gary, 78 BBB" ]
Re: C6 never making it to 3rd, missing shift linkage? ["Gary, 78 BBB"
Re: Riddle me this!!!! (Spare tire carrier) [Tom Hogan
Re: Riddle me this!!!! [dave.williams chaos.lrk.ar.us (Dave Williams)]
Re: PVS Switch, 351M ["Dave Resch"]

=======================================================================

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 07:47:51 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: RE: Dual Exhaust for my 74

> From: Tom Hogan
> Subject: RE: Dual Exhaust for my 74
> Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 16:35:43 -0700

> question about matching the two sides in a dual setup. Would you
> want the side servicing the driver's side of the engine to have the
> muffler further forward than the passenger side so that both
> mufflers are equal distance from the engine? Just some ideas.

Anything you do to even up the pressure pulses in both pipes is going
to help performance but such details in the exhaust usually aren't
especially significant in touring applications. Since this would be
a custom job and just as easy to do as not, it might not hurt to go
with it but the balance tube is more important IMHO. Unless you are
tuning for a specific rpm the length of the pipes or where the
pressure points are in them will probably be insignificant. As I
mentioned earlier, the new trucks have very short exhaust systems
compared to older versions.

I once read about a test which concluded that 80 feet of x size
pipe was perfect for max torque at x rpm in a stationary engine.
This had to do with resonance tuning and was based on the law of
physics having to do with open ended tubes and sound waves and the
engine was run at one rpm only for testing. The scientists discerned
from these tests that there is no way to completely optimize the tune
for low speed torque in a motor vehicle since the exhaust pipe would
be too short anyway. At best the exhaust system is a weighted
compromise based on the intended use.

Motorcycles use megaphones to do somewhat the same thing. The
internal cone shape caused the sound waves to travel further than
they could in a pipe increasing the time element helping low end
torque somewhat AIR.



The swift of foot and slow of wit
have more off road experiences

- -- Gary --

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 07:59:03 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: Intake manifolds

> From: Tom Hogan
> Subject: Intake manifolds
> Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 17:06:09 -0700

> weeks for a response though. There are only 3 people manning the
> question board on a voluteer basis. They do eventually get around

This is one problem and below is another and there is a third, most
of the tech guys are reading from a computer screen and have no
personal experience with your application so they can only give you
guide lines. Some of the Summit and Jeggs guys OTOH have race cars
and can tell you from experience in some cases. Holley has been
helpful to me but they still can't really iron out the problem that's
why they have the tech chat room/mail list so you can hear about
other peoples experiences.

> public tech discussion. Usually the tech guys don't provide the
> answers though so take any advice with a grain of salt. Holley is at
> www.holley.com

I called a cam company and discussed my plan for a roller cam and the
fact that no one seems to make a low rpm version for the 460 and was
told that the 460 makes so much torque you won't miss the little bit
at the bottom and it "probably" makes more torque at the bottom than
a stock cam anyway but again he was guessing, but based on what?
These aren't facts just conjecture. I can do that all by myself :-(


The swift of foot and slow of wit
have more off road experiences

- -- Gary --

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 08:13:15 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: Riddle me this!!!!

> Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 21:07:00 -0500
> From: dave.williams chaos.lrk.ar.us (Dave Williams)
> Subject: Re: Riddle me this!!!!

> tire out and back under the truck. The truck came with a big
> stamped steel thingamabob, a couple of rods, and a funky looking
> nut. It looks like the idea is to hang the steel bracket from one
> rod, slide the tire up onto it somehow, heave it up against the
> frame with superhuman strength, feed the other rod through, and run
> the nut up to hold it.

Ever notice that NOBODY uses that for the spare tire? Where do you
see all the truck spares? Lying loose in the bed if they have one
at all or on the front mounted thingy that robs the radiator of much
needed air. Must be a reason for that since all truckers are
gorillas it can't be that its too difficult to do can it?

The swift of foot and slow of wit
have more off road experiences

- -- Gary --

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 08:30:29 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: 460 intake suggestions

> From: "Mike & Evan"
> Subject: 460 intake suggestions
> Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 08:35:34 -0500

> Hoping the 460 moves my truck well, been bragging about it at work
> for
> months and nobody has even seen it. All my co-workers are Ch*vy or
> D*dge people and think I'm nuts, they think the stock 460 is gonna
> be a dog and eat me alive in gas bills.

Unfortunately power does have a price. So far my 12 mpg seems to be
holding up as the best anyone is getting with the 460 and that's with
2.75 gears and wide ratio C-6 with stock spread bore carb and
manifold. The headers didn't seem to help at all and in fact I think
I lost 1/2 mpg with them due to the fact that I can't rejet the OEM
carb. When I redo the engine I plan to get the Edelbrock carb and
manifold and roller cam along with port matching and knocking the
humps out of the exhaust ports. I'm anticipating a small gain in mpg
with this setup but only a small one. My goal is to get 15 in the
truck and still have some performance. I think this is doable but
not easily doable :-(

Bigger tires typically eat up mpg too due to increased rolling
resistance and wind resistance no matter what gearing you use :-(

Maybe when my daughter's 97 F-150 grows stale I'll buy it off of her
and put in the 460. With better aerodynamics I'll probly get 20 :-)

The swift of foot and slow of wit
have more off road experiences

- -- Gary --

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 08:16:37 -0400
From: Sleddog
Subject: RE: 460 intake suggestions

without bolting them together, there is no way to know how the ports are
lined up. one cannot just make a template from one part and just put it on
the other. the bolting of parts together is the big "trick" to trult
getting matched ports.

sleddog

- ----------
From: Tom Hogan[SMTP:tom.hogan kla-tencor.com]
Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 1997 7:56 PM
To: 'Ford Trucks'
Subject: Re: 460 intake suggestions

Just an idea on port matching. Use thin cardboard (poster board) cut it
slightly larger than the intake manifold surface that mates to the head.
Then ink the mating surface and press the cardboard onto the ink to
transfer an image of the intake ports to the cardboard. Cut out the
intake ports with an exacto knife and then you have a template that
matches the port size of the manifold.


- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
- ----------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 11:04:04 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: 460 intake suggestions

> Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 02:16:22 -0600
> From: Woody
> Subject: Re: 460 intake suggestions

> > intakes) you should port match the heads. match the heads to the
> > intake, not both parts to the gasket.
>
> Sounds good in theory but how do you know how they match when bolted
> together--in other words if you don't use a gasket as the
> intermediary reference, how do you match intake port to head runner?

I was a little curious about that myself?

The swift of foot and slow of wit
have more off road experiences

- - -- Gary --








+-------------- Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1979 and Older --------------+
| Send posts to fordtrucks listservice.net, |
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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 08:25:40 -0400
From: Sleddog
Subject: RE: 460 performance info

i ran for awhile a 68-69 460 with same heads. 11.5:1 compression and only
under extreme conditions (foe example running wot for 20 minutes thru 3
foot deep snow on forest trails.) did it ever start pinging or otherwise
carrying on. i ran 87 octane much of the time. 92 or better if i knew i
needed it or if i had the extra cash.

can the aluminum CJ heads be considered stock?

sleddog

- ----------
From: danadeb pacbell.net[SMTP:danadeb pacbell.net]
Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 1997 9:46 PM
To: Ford Folks
Subject: 460 performance info

Sleddog,

Have you or anyone else you know tried early 460 heads on a late motor
( netting about an 11.5 to 1 compression ratio ) with street gas? (87-92
octane ) Does it work? I live in California and unless the Smogcheck II
exemption for pre 73 cars goes through, I am stuck using stock parts for
more performance.

Thanks

Dana






+-------------- Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1979 and Older --------------+
| Send posts to fordtrucks listservice.net, |
| Send Unsubscribe requests to fordtrucks-request listservice.net |
+-- Visit Our Web Site: http://www.ford-trucks.com/ --+

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 08:48:58 -0400
From: Joe D
Subject: F350 Booster Use???Brakes??

Can one use the F350 Brake booster and master cylinder to add power
brakes to a f100???I plan on adding a dana 44 with discs up front..
Or did the f350 use a differnt type of booster/cylinder????I found
a junkyard with about 13 f-100-f350's in it..2 of the 350's have power
brake setups still on them...Also will 73-75 booster cylinders work????
Thakns
Joe

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 08:51:04 -0400
From: Joe D
Subject: Add on to brake question..

I forgot the years...67-72 are the years I'm talking about for the
350's
Joe

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 07:55:50 -0500
From: John Strauss
Subject: FMX shifting

>My FMX was doing the opposite when I got it on the road. It was skipping
>over 2nd--shifting too early. I fix it by messing with this adjustment.
>
>Does anybody know if 3rd is operated by a band???
>
Are you operating the trans in D1 or D2? If you are in D2, which is the
FIRST drive position on the lever (white dot), then the trans starts off in
second and shifts to third. If you start out in D1 (green dot), then the
trans starts out in first, shifts to second and then third.

I have a 1964 F100 with an FMX and it fooled me too. I thought it was not
going into 3rd because there was only one shift. I later found out about
D1 and D2 positions by examining shift points and the valve body diagrams
in my service manual.


_
_| ~~. John Strauss
\, _} jstrauss inetport.com
\( Texas Fight!

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 08:57:27 -0400
From: Joe D
Subject: Fall Carlisle Car Show

For all you East coast people.One of the biggest Car/Truck Parts
show is coming up October 2nd to the 5th(thurs to sun)
Carlisle,PA..Just some info on getting parts for your truck
before winter comes
Joe

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 08:57:23 -0400
From: "Payne, Kenneth"
Subject: Re: Question For Group

>
> I have a question....Am I doing something wrong? I post messages and
> never seem to get any answers. Am I not receiving them or do I ask
> to hard of a question or WHAT????Just venting I guess...I thought
> there would be alot of help from the group but it seems like no one
> really cares about the 67-72's......
> Thanks for listening

Sometimes they just get lost in the shuffle. Or people who have
an interest get busy. I'm extremely interested in the 67-72's.
I have a 67 I'm restoring. But last week I worked 79 hours and
68 the week before. That leaves little time for discussion,
especially considering I still have to administer the lists.

What were the questions?

Ken

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 09:03:41 -0400
From: "John F. Bauer III"
Subject: Re: C6 never making it to 3rd, missing shift linkage?

Group:

Quick update on this silly C6 that can't get it up ... into third.

I checked the fluid again, and then again. Got the transmission as level as
I could (engine, trans, transfer case all mounted to angle down towards the
rear diff. to reduce UV joint angularity) and the fluid level seemed a bit
high (1/4" - 1/2" over full mark.) So, after pooling over all the great
advice I have gotten (thanks much folks), I picked up a 76 Ford service
manual from the library and a Fram filter/seal kit from the parts store and
get ready to get dirty ...

Don't have a vacuum gauge, but after removing the flexible hose to the
vacuum diaphragm, with the engine running, I noticed a suction, but also
noticed that the rubber hose had become very flexible and appears to maybe
caving in on itself under the suction. So, with high hopes, replace hose
with newer hose that doesn't noticeably crush under the suction and drove
around town. Still no third.

With advice to inspect filter and then move to modulator, I removed the
trans. oil pan last night. Holy Cow! Must have dumped about 6+ quarts of
fluid (including what was in the pan when I could finally get it off.)
Filled one Peak antifreeze container to the top plus three 1 quart oil
containers with all the fluid. The Ford service manual says the whole trans
and t.converter hold 6.something quarts. (BTW, didn't touch the torque
converter, assuming it has ever more fluid in it.)

Now the big question, the service manual refers to too much fluid as causing
fluid aeration that will reduce the oil pressure (I assume this will in turn
cause the trans to not function correctly, but the text does draw any
conclusions from the low oil pressure) and cause fluid to spill out the
overflow vent. I have noticed no fluid coming out the overflow vent. Does
this mean I might have some minimal to serious internal trans. problems due
to the "way extra" fluid? What makes me believe I might be in trouble is
that the Ford service manual says I should replace the filter, replace the
gasket, put the pan back on and fill it with 3 quarters of fluid and then
just check level in case a little topping off is required. Dumped like 6+
quarts, replace with 3 quarts, what the heck was the other 3+ quarts doing
in there? Too late to strangle the guy I bought the van from ...

If anyone has any cool tips to help me out, I would greatly appreciate it!

John
bauerjf ix.netcom.com

(replies cut to save space)

At 01:35 PM 9/15/97 +0000, you wrote:
>> Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 10:26:48 -0400
>> From: "John F. Bauer III"
>> Subject: C6 never making it to 3rd, missing shift linkage?

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 09:51:19 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: RE: 460 intake suggestions

> From: Sleddog
> Subject: RE: 460 intake suggestions
> Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 08:16:37 -0400

> without bolting them together, there is no way to know how the ports
> are lined up. one cannot just make a template from one part and
> just put it on the other. the bolting of parts together is the big
> "trick" to trult getting matched ports.

I've monkeyed a little with this so I have a vague idea what's
involved. The problem I had was keeping the template in place long
enought to bolt it all together without moving it AT ALL? It always
seemed to squirm around just enough to make me suspect it wasn't
where I wanted it after bolting it up???

The swift of foot and slow of wit
have more off road experiences

- -- Gary --

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 10:42:01 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: C6 never making it to 3rd, missing shift linkage?

> Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 09:03:41 -0400
> From: "John F. Bauer III"
> Subject: Re: C6 never making it to 3rd, missing shift linkage?

> three 1 quart oil containers with all the fluid. The Ford service
> manual says the whole trans and t.converter hold 6.something quarts.
> (BTW, didn't touch the torque converter, assuming it has ever more
> fluid in it.)

Can't remember for sure but if you drain the converter the whole
system takes about 13 qts or more (seems like it was 17?) I can't
imagine that too much oil would prevent it from going to third but I
suppose anything is possible.

What did the filter look like? Did it look plugged at all? Sounds
like we're back to the modulator again?

BTW, the adjustments in the modulator don't make a big difference as
I recall and only serve to adjust the "load" under which it will
shift, not the speed. The governor opens a valve to the modulator
controlled valve which then determines, based on manifold vacuum,
when it will shift but if the governor doesn't open it's valve the
modulator can't do it's job. When my governor acted up I couldn't
get it to shift up from first and then it wouldn't go back down into
first if I got it to shift. The modulator can cause similar symptoms
if it's not working properly but usually with 2 to 3 shifts.

Seems like the pin length has an effect on the 1-2 shift but can't
remember for sure. I lengthed it but can't remember why?

The swift of foot and slow of wit
have more off road experiences

- -- Gary --

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 08:58:14 -0700
From: Tom Hogan
Subject: Re: Riddle me this!!!! (Spare tire carrier)

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 01:10:24 PDT
From: "MICHAEL FRISCH"
Subject: Re: Riddle me this!!!!

>
> > Nope. It's not me, just an incredible simulation... the real one
>>would have "Master of Rock and Roll" among his titles.
>
>My head is hung low in shame! A name of Deacon Blues forgets "Master of
Rock
>and Roll"? The shame! It must have been the excitement of seeing the
Crimson
>Tide! Can I be forgiven just this once?
>
>
>
>> Is this the way to do it, or is there a simpler way that was probably
>>described in the owner's manual, which probably got stolen by the
>>original owner in 1968, along with the jack and jack handle?
>>
>> My Courier has a little winch that you hook into the tire and it
>>cranks it up.
>
>Mine is the same way, same fate! I was wondering if it is possible to
remove
>the wench from a Courier (I think Toyota is the same) and mounting to
my
>'73? I have obtained a piece of aluminum channel for the bar but the
wench
>would save from possible mishap the loss of blood and possible body
parts!
>
>The tailgate sounds Oh, so Cool, Master (breathing sounds of Darth
Vader)!
>
>Deacon Blues
>Visit my Homepage at http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://home1.gte.net/deconblu/
>and http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.dragonfire.net/~site/tbirdknights/
>or send me a fan or flame at deconblu gte.net not both. Never fan a
flame!
>


My Dad's 76 had the "He-Man and the Masters of the Universe" spare tire
carrier. I can remember a couple of times we actually used a hydraulic
jack to raise the tire and hold it while we locked the rod in place. My
76 has some sort of "Delux" carrier. It has a flip up latch and a pin
that holds it in place. There is a shackle for a padlock. The tire
sits on a telescoping bar and when you want to remove it just pull the
pin, flip the latch, lower the tire and pull it out from under the
truck. Then lift the tire off the carrier. Putting the thing back
together with a tire on it is a snap! Check out the salvage yards. I
bet the pieces would fit on the earlier iron too.
I had a D**ge D-50 built by Mitsu-Jap-Company. It had a winch too. As
I remembe it was pretty flimsy and I don't think it would hold up to a
full size tire. We stretched the chain on ours and it got to be a bear
to use. It was a good idea and if it was a little heavier duty would
have held up nicely.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 12:13:00 -0500
From: dave.williams chaos.lrk.ar.us (Dave Williams)
Subject: Re: Riddle me this!!!!

- -> Mine is the same way, same fate! I was wondering if it is possible to
- -> remove the wench from a Courier (I think Toyota is the same) and
- -> mounting to my '73? I have obtained a piece of aluminum channel for
- -> the bar but the wench would save from possible mishap the loss of
- -> blood and possible body parts!

So you really are supposed to manhandle a Gumbo Mudder back up under
the truck? That'll be a thrill, trying to straight-arm it around the
dropped receiver hitch.

Anyone want to sell one of those fenders with the spare tire bracket
for cheap? For a '68 short narrow box?


------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 13:02:07 -0600
From: "Dave Resch"
Subject: Re: PVS Switch, 351M

Dale, Don, et al:

I have a 1980 F250 that was originally equipped with a 351M, so it has the
factory vacuum routing diagram sticker under the hood. The engine is still
factory stock, as far as the vacuum hoses go. I know that a lot of my
truck's emission systems are common w/ '70s 351M configurations. I don't
know how much direct help I can offer, since I don't think my truck has any
4-port PVSs.

According to the Chiltons manual I have, the vacuum to the distributor is
switched between the carburetor spark port and the intake manifold, based
on a thermal PVS, for reasons mentioned by Don in his post. This is done
w/ a three-port PVS though. One port goes to the dist vac advance, the
other two to the alternative vac sources. On my engine, the ports are
labeled 1-0-2. 0 is the common port and the PVS switches between 1-0 open
and 0-2 open. 0 goes to the distributor vac advance.

BTW, the spark port on my Motorcraft 2150 is on the side, under the elec
choke. I think the port on the front is for the purge canister vacuum.
The EGR on my engine runs off manifold vacuum, but is regulated by other
devices. The only other vac connection I can remember on my carb (w/ no
reference in front of me) is for the choke pull-down. Of course, this
doesn't count the power valve connection, which goes from a special
connection on the manifold to a closed chamber on the front underside of
the carb.

The operation you describe for your 4-port PVS sounds like two 2-port
switches combined. All that's happening is on-off, not source switching.
Since your engine is of unknown pedigree, the possibility exists that your
4-port PVS may be the wrong part. One way to start tracking down your
engine's configuration is to find out the engine calibration number. If
you have the original valve covers (and they weren't swapped willy-nilly by
some bozo rebuilder), there should be an engine build tag (paper stick-on)
on the left front and right rear valve covers. I think Chiltons shows how
to decode those tags. If you can get that info, you may be able to start
tracking down your engine's proper configuration.

Here's my PVS story:

A while back, I replaced the water pump on my truck. One of the thermal
PVSs (2-port) is in the water pump housing. While I had the PVS removed
from the old housing and before I put it in the new one, I decided to check
it. Turns out, it was dead (never opened at any temp). I got a new one
and put that in, stupidly breaking one of the vacuum connections right off!
I used 5-minute epoxy to glue it back on (carefully keeping the glue out of
the hole in the port). I temporarily blocked off the vacuum lines for a
couple of days, figuring that since the old PVS was dead, blocking off the
lines temporarily would not affect the current performance.

A couple of days later, I unblocked the vacuum lines and hooked them up to
the PVS. The engine's idle speed dropped to about 400 rpm when it warmed
up, and it would barely stay running w/ my foot off the throttle. After
studying the vacuum diagram, I finally figured out that the replaced PVS
controlled the EGR valve. It had probably never worked since I bought this
truck from the previous owner. Now, the EGR was kicking in and dumping
exhaust gas into the intake manifold and killing the engine. Again, as a
temporary fix, I blocked off the vacuum lines until I could study the
diagram more and figure out what else wasn't working.

When I finally had some time on a weekend, I started retracing the entire....

---

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