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Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 15:57:36 -0600 (MDT)
From: owner-fordtrucks-digest ListService.net (fordtrucks-digest)
To: fordtrucks-digest ListService.net
Subject: fordtrucks-digest V1 #219
Reply-To: fordtrucks ListService.net
Sender: owner-fordtrucks-digest ListService.net


fordtrucks-digest Tuesday, September 16 1997 Volume 01 : Number 219



=======================================================================
Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1979 And Older Trucks Digest
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message.
=======================================================================
In this issue:

Riddle me this!!!! [dave.williams chaos.lrk.ar.us (Dave Williams)]
Question For Group [Joe D ]
Re: Riddle me this!!!! ["Gary, 78 BBB" ]
Re: 460 intake suggestions ["Gary, 78 BBB" ]
RE: C6 never making it to 3rd, missing shift linkage? [Sleddog
RE: 460 intake suggestions [Sleddog ]
RE: 460 intake suggestions [Sleddog ]
Re: 460 intake suggestions [pharrell bae.uga.edu (Graphics & Research Fab]
Re: 460 intake suggestions [Woody ]
'89 f-250 gastank [Brian Perwak ]
Dual Exhaust for my 74 [Keith Srb ]
Re: 460 intake suggestions ["Gary, 78 BBB" ]
Re: '89 f-250 gastank ["Gary, 78 BBB" ]
Re: 460 intake suggestions [SuperMagot aol.com]
Re: Dual Exhaust for my 74 ["Gary, 78 BBB" ]
Re: '89 f-250 gastank ["John F. Bauer III" ]
ex manifold/header for 352/390 [Brian Koss ]
Re: ex manifold/header for 352/390 [John MacNamara ]
Torque, clutch bolts etc. ["Gary, 78 BBB" ]
428CJ manifold?? Or? [sdelanty sonic.net]

=======================================================================

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 20:50:00 -0500
From: dave.williams chaos.lrk.ar.us (Dave Williams)
Subject: Riddle me this!!!!

- -> holds 5 qts. the truck holds 6 qts. WHY? WHY does the truck hold 1
- -> more qt. of oil in the same motor?

I dunno about the truck, but in the Mustang the standard 351C-4V engine
was rated at 5 quarts and the BOSS 351 at 6. The pans were the same;
Ford used a differently calibrated dipstick in the BOSS.

====dave.williams chaos.lrk.ar.us========================DoD#978=======
can you help me...help me get out of this place?...slow sedation...
ain't my style, ain't my pace...giving me a number...NINE, SEVEN, EIGHT
==5.0 RX7 -> Tyrannosaurus RX! == SAE '82 == Denizens of Doom M/C '92==


------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 07:16:05 -0400
From: Joe D
Subject: Question For Group

I have a question....Am I doing something wrong? I post messages and
never seem to get any answers. Am I not receiving them or do I ask
to hard of a question or WHAT????Just venting I guess...I thought
there would be alot of help from the group but it seems like no one
really cares about the 67-72's......
Thanks for listening

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 08:12:05 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: Riddle me this!!!!

> From: "George Shepherd"
> Subject: Re: Riddle me this!!!!
> Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 20:34:54 -0500

> Trucks work harder, one more quart of cooling oil. All heat is
> transferred from cam and crank to oil. Water cools head and block,
> oil cools internal parts. More oil, more cooling.

Had some stone delivered the other day and talked to the driver about
his rig and he said the diesel took 9 GAL not qts!

The swift of foot and slow of wit
have more off road experiences

- -- Gary --

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 08:25:56 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: 460 intake suggestions

> From: "Mike & Evan"
> Subject: 460 intake suggestions
> Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 09:44:45 -0500

> best for a basically stock 460? It is going in my '75 F-250 4x4.
> Right now all I have are L&L headers, and a Edelbrock 750 carb.
> With stock heads and cam, should I go with a Performer, Performer
> RPM or a
> Wieland Stealth? The 460 is out of a mid '70's Lincoln.

If it's internally stock then the performer dual plane manifold
should be at least a lateral move if not an improvement. The one on
my 351M seems to help quite a bit based on experience with other
stock 351's. Don't get talked into a single plane with a stock
engine used for street and off road you won't like it. The dual
plane is designed for low end torque and still gives good top end
performance which is where I think my stock manifold on the 460 is
falling short but there are other problems which I haven't had time
to sort out yet so not sure.

Barn's almost done so maybe pretty soon I can get to it :-)

The rpm is for higher revs and may not work very well with a stock
engine, not sure about the Weiand but Summit says it's for
street/strip which conjurs up visions of higher rev ranges too.

Usually you need to change the cam to work with these manifolds.

The swift of foot and slow of wit
have more off road experiences

- -- Gary --

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 08:25:10 -0400
From: Sleddog
Subject: RE: C6 never making it to 3rd, missing shift linkage?

on a c6, only 2nd is operated by the band.

sleddog

- ----------
From: DC Beatty[SMTP:dcbeatty compuserve.com]
Sent: Monday, September 15, 1997 7:04 PM
To: 'INTERNET:fordtrucks ListService.net'
Subject: RE: C6 never making it to 3rd, missing shift linkage?

>>>>>


My FMX was doing the opposite when I got it on the road. It was skipping
over 2nd--shifting too early. I fix it by messing with this adjustment.

Does anybody know if 3rd is operated by a band???

Good luck. Let us know.

DC Beatty
1967 F100 352
1974 Maverick 302



Group:

Doing a little road testing on my van over the weekend and after getting
the
right axles, gears and tires all installed, I believe it never makes it to
third gear. Here is what I know: 77 C6 with transfer case in 2WD high, 30"
tires, 3.54 ratio, 460 engine. With the pedal depressed as if my
grandmother was in the passenger seat (taking it really easy on the
acceleration), I noticed the first to second gear shift occurring about
15mph (sorry, no tach yet), assume I should make it into third about
30-35mph??? but it never happens. Made it to about 45-50mph which major
engine whine and no shift into third. Placed the transmission shift lever
from drive into 2 and noticed the same lack-o-shift into third. Tried
moving between D and 2 at various speeds and noticed no change in shift of
any kind. After driving a few miles and with the engine at good normal
operating temperature, smelled the trans. fluid on the dip stick and it
looked reddish (not black or brown) and smelled the fluid (no burned smell
noticed). Fluid level appeared to be in the normal fill range with the
engine running, trans in park and pretty much level ground.

This is my first serious experience with diagnosing auto trans problems,
always been a manual guy.

I have noticed that where the shift linkage comes from the column to the
trans, there appears to be another level on the C6 about 1.5" above the
before mentioned shift linkage that has a C shaped lever arm with a small
circular knob at the end of the C that seems to move freely between two
positions, always returning to the forward position if left untouched.
There seems to be nothing connected to this C shaped lever. Has some
spring
or linkage fallen off this lever that just might be part of my lack-o-third
gear problem? Is it something between the column linkage and this C shaped
lever or is it between the gas pedal and the C lever (as my dad described
used to be a way to kick an old auto into the next gear based on gas pedal
depression)?

If this C shaped level is just for looks, then is there something else I
should be checking? I am scrounging around for books/repair manuals that
can help, but so far no luck.

Any help would be greatly appreciated,
John
bauerjf ix.netcom.com

96 F150, 302, daily driver
77 E250 4WD, 460, C6, custom van!






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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 08:41:03 -0400
From: Sleddog
Subject: RE: 460 intake suggestions

what is a basically stock 460? if you are that close to stock, a stock
intake works fine. 450 horse can be made with these old small port cast
iron intakes. there are times when a single plane intake works better than
a dual plane - but to be safe go with a dual plane. i recommend the weind
stealth or the blue thunder dual plane. the weind may have just a little
more top end rpm potential. with either of these two (or most other
intakes) you should port match the heads. match the heads to the intake,
not both parts to the gasket.
well, intakes are cheap. but dollar for dollar once you are more than
stock, the place to put the money is in the heads. a good port and bowl
work could be worth 50 hp. the intake may give you 20. a cam may give you
more but a stock cam put into a well flowing motor runs better than a hot
cam in a poorly flowing motor.

if you can spring the cash, you may as well replace the cam and intake same
time - you are half way there taking off parts, and the intake must be off
to install a cam. (hopefullt your lifters can come UP through the lifter
bores, if they need to go down due to excessive wear, then the oil pan or
more may need removal.

i have many resources for building 460's. ask and you shall receive.

sleddog

- ----------
From: Mike & Evan[SMTP:yasky netins.net]
Sent: Monday, September 15, 1997 10:44 AM
To: fordtrucks ListService.net
Subject: 460 intake suggestions

Hi everyone! I don't post much to the list, but I read it every day. Its
great, and I always learn something new.
Maybe some of you 460 guys can help me out on this one. Which intake is
best for a basically stock 460? It is going in my '75 F-250 4x4. Right
now all I have are L&L headers, and a Edelbrock 750 carb.
With stock heads and cam, should I go with a Performer, Performer RPM or a
Wieland Stealth? The 460 is out of a mid '70's Lincoln.
Or, would I be better off spending the money on something else instead?
Like redoing the heads or a bigger cam?
Any help is appreciated!

Thanks in advance.

Mike Vonhof
yasky netins.net







+-------------- Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1979 and Older --------------+
| Send posts to fordtrucks listservice.net, |
| Send Unsubscribe requests to fordtrucks-request listservice.net |
+-- Visit Our Web Site: http://www.ford-trucks.com/ --+

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 08:47:06 -0400
From: Sleddog
Subject: RE: 460 intake suggestions

the stealth is a dual plane.

many builders are finding now that the new single plane intakes are
building more torque from off idle all the way to maximum rpm, while still
retaining good responce. it doesn't always end up that way, but i found
out the hard way that single planes can be much better. in fact, it made a
big difference in my 460 with a blue thunder dual plane just adding a 2"
carb spacer. effectively creating almost a single plane.

the weind stealth is known to be a good power making intake from 2-6500 rpm
easy. i have one on a 460 with a 292 comp cam and it definatley gives good
power and torque. for a close to stock engine this would be my choice.

sleddog

- ----------
From: SARHOG aol.com[SMTP:SARHOG aol.com]
Sent: Monday, September 15, 1997 7:08 PM
To: fordtrucks ListService.net
Subject: Re: 460 intake suggestions

Subj: 460 intake suggestions
Date: 97-09-15 22:45:49 EDT
From: yasky netins.net (Mike & Evan)
Sender: owner-fordtrucks ListService.net
Reply-to: fordtrucks ListService.net
To: fordtrucks ListService.net

Hi everyone! I don't post much to the list, but I read it every day. Its
great, and I always learn something new.
Maybe some of you 460 guys can help me out on this one. Which intake is
best for a basically stock 460? It is going in my '75 F-250 4x4. Right
now all I have are L&L headers, and a Edelbrock 750 carb.
With stock heads and cam, should I go with a Performer, Performer RPM or a
Wieland Stealth? The 460 is out of a mid '70's Lincoln.
Or, would I be better off spending the money on something else instead?
Like redoing the heads or a bigger cam?


I have a 460, and am in need of a new intake too, so I feel your pain. For
your application in a 4x4, you should go with the Performer. The Performer
RPM doesn't make as much low-end torque, and I think the Stealth is a
single
plane, which is definitely the wrong way to go, unless you plan on doing
mud
racing or something.

John Z.
67 F-100 460/C-6






+-------------- Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1979 and Older --------------+
| Send posts to fordtrucks listservice.net, |
| Send Unsubscribe requests to fordtrucks-request listservice.net |
+-- Visit Our Web Site: http://www.ford-trucks.com/ --+

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 97 08:54:51 EDT
From: pharrell bae.uga.edu (Graphics & Research Fabrication)
Subject: Re: 460 intake suggestions

Weiand makes the Action Plus which is a dual plane. I have one on my 302
with a Holley. I think the Edelbrock Performer will give you even more
bottom end response though. I'm not sure if they're offered for the 460.

Pat
pharrell bae.uga.edu

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 02:16:22 -0600
From: Woody
Subject: Re: 460 intake suggestions

> intakes) you should port match the heads. match the heads to the intake,
> not both parts to the gasket.

Sounds good in theory but how do you know how they match when bolted
together--in other words if you don't use a gasket as the intermediary
reference, how do you match intake port to head runner?

Woody

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 10:48:02 -0400
From: Brian Perwak
Subject: '89 f-250 gastank

My front gas tank began to leak on my 89 F-250 (60,000mi). I believe it is
at the seam, but I'm not positive.

I wanted know if anyone had any recommendations as far as replacement.
-should I go to a plasic tank?
-any good places to mail order a new one?

Thanks,

Brian Perwak

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 07:58:20 -0700
From: Keith Srb
Subject: Dual Exhaust for my 74

My 74 F250 has an Auxiliary Gas Tank mounted inside the Frame Rail on the
drivers side of the truck. There isn't enough room between the Gas Tank and
the Drive Shaft to run an exhaust pipe for the drivers side. Anybody have any
suggestions??

Keith Srb herbie netvalue.net
Mesa, AZ
1986 Ford Bronco II, 2.9L (I HATE LITERS) V-6, Mitsubishi 5-Speed.
1980 Harley Davidson, XLH, Rebuilt from the frame up.
1974 Ford F250 Ranger XLT, 390ci 4bbl, Automatic, Long Box, Style Side.
1966 Ford F100, 240 C.I. Straight Six, Warner T-18 4-Speed, Short Box.
My Blood runs "TRUE BLUE FORD on Four Wheels and Pure HARLEY on Two Wheels!"

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 11:04:04 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: 460 intake suggestions

> Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 02:16:22 -0600
> From: Woody
> Subject: Re: 460 intake suggestions

> > intakes) you should port match the heads. match the heads to the
> > intake, not both parts to the gasket.
>
> Sounds good in theory but how do you know how they match when bolted
> together--in other words if you don't use a gasket as the
> intermediary reference, how do you match intake port to head runner?

I was a little curious about that myself?

The swift of foot and slow of wit
have more off road experiences

- -- Gary --

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 11:08:09 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: '89 f-250 gastank

> Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 10:48:02 -0400
> From: Brian Perwak
> Subject: '89 f-250 gastank

> My front gas tank began to leak on my 89 F-250 (60,000mi). I
> believe it is at the seam, but I'm not positive.
>
> I wanted know if anyone had any recommendations as far as
> replacement.
> -should I go to a plasic tank?
> -any good places to mail order a new one?

JC Whitney has them for many vehicles. I hear the Poly Propolene is
the best material but many are made of vinyl I think. Poly is better
IMHO. You can get larger sizes too when you go to plastic in a lot
of cases.

The swift of foot and slow of wit
have more off road experiences

- -- Gary --

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 11:11:29 -0400 (EDT)
From: SuperMagot aol.com
Subject: Re: 460 intake suggestions

I have this:
70 1/2Ton 2WD 460 - C6

I have the Edlebrock performer manifold, RV Cam , 780 Holley and mildly
ported exhaust heads, with bigger exhaust valves.

This combo works great for low-end torque and mid-range power.

I dont have exeprience with the other manifolds, but on an older 360 I had I
put in a single plane manifold and a hot cam and got piss-poor throttle
response...

If your looking for spine-breaking torque, go with the Performer!

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 11:16:52 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: Dual Exhaust for my 74

> From: Keith Srb
> Subject: Dual Exhaust for my 74
> Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 07:58:20 -0700

> My 74 F250 has an Auxiliary Gas Tank mounted inside the Frame Rail
> on the drivers side of the truck. There isn't enough room between
> the Gas Tank and the Drive Shaft to run an exhaust pipe for the
> drivers side. Anybody have any suggestions??

Most jobs I've seen went to the passenger side with both pipes. If
you use a little ingenuity you can get them the same length but try
to get a balance tube roughly 2/3 the pipe size between them near the
engine to balance the pulses to get the most out of the installation.
I see the new trucks all have the pipes coming out in front of the
rear tires now. That must make for an awfully short exhaust system
which makes me wonder how they get the low end out of them? Course
they all have very small engines that turn more revs so maybe that's
part of it? I noticed the Power Stroke has a mighty huge pipe on it
too! Wow!

The swift of foot and slow of wit
have more off road experiences

- -- Gary --

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 11:16:47 -0400
From: "John F. Bauer III"
Subject: Re: '89 f-250 gastank

I took the JC Whitney approach for a rear gas tank for my now dead and
buried '78 E100 which rusted at the seam after 16 years, metal, arrived
totally unpainted (no biggie, took care of that right quick), same height
and width, just a bit wider which fit just fine and increased holding from
19 gal. original tank to 22.5 gal. JC Whitney tank. Van rusted to nothing,
but still have that gas tank in my garage just waiting for its next use ...

At 10:48 AM 9/16/97 -0400, you wrote:
>My front gas tank began to leak on my 89 F-250 (60,000mi). I believe it is
>at the seam, but I'm not positive.
>
>I wanted know if anyone had any recommendations as far as replacement.
> -should I go to a plasic tank?
> -any good places to mail order a new one?
>
>Thanks,
>
>Brian Perwak
>+-------------- Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1979 and Older --------------+
>| Send posts to fordtrucks listservice.net, |
>| Send Unsubscribe requests to fordtrucks-request listservice.net |
>+-- Visit Our Web Site: http://www.ford-trucks.com/ --+
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 09:48:36 -0700 (PDT)
From: Brian Koss
Subject: ex manifold/header for 352/390

The best factory exhaust maifold would be the manifolds off a 428. The
drivers side is very muck like a header. The passenger side is more like
the 390 GT which is not nearly as long due to restraints from the starter.
The bolt patterns on each are different from the standard 352 and 390s.
They have a side to side or top to bottom bolt patern (don't remember
which) The rear most bolts on the pasenger side are also different between
the 390GT and 428 manifolds. It is possible to redrill the heads to accept
these maifolds ( i've done it). The manifolds are easy to come by at
Perogies, FE enterprise or Karl Bakers (buy a Mustang Monthly or email me
for the phone numbers) Be ready to get a bank loan since 428 parts are not
cheap.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 14:43:53 -0700
From: John MacNamara
Subject: Re: ex manifold/header for 352/390

Brian Koss wrote:
>
> The best factory exhaust maifold would be the manifolds off a 428. The
> drivers side is very muck like a header. The passenger side is more like
> the 390 GT which is not nearly as long due to restraints from the starter.
> The bolt patterns on each are different from the standard 352 and 390s.
> They have a side to side or top to bottom bolt patern (don't remember
> which) The rear most bolts on the pasenger side are also different between
> the 390GT and 428 manifolds. It is possible to redrill the heads to accept
> these maifolds ( i've done it). The manifolds are easy to come by at
> Perogies, FE enterprise or Karl Bakers (buy a Mustang Monthly or email me
> for the phone numbers) Be ready to get a bank loan since 428 parts are not
> cheap.
>
> +-------------- Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1979 and Older --------------+
> | Send posts to fordtrucks listservice.net, |
> | Send Unsubscribe requests to fordtrucks-request listservice.net |
> +-- Visit Our Web Site: http://www.ford-trucks.com/ --+
Brian: I have a pair of both of these manifolds sitting in my garage.
The passenger side manifolds are exactly identical. The driver side has
one difference the bolt pattern on the rear port is vertical on the
390GT and horizontal on the 428. After examining both manifolds the
390GT manifold would seem to be better as the horizontal bolt holes cut
down the size of the runner on the 428 and the vertical pattern on the
390GT allows for a larger runner. These 390GT manifolds are off of a
1966 Fairlane and the 428's are off of 67 Mustang.

There is a gentleman in Oklahoma selling some of the GT manifolds for
$140.

Thanks!
John MacNamara

78 F250 4X4 Suprcab
67 GT500
66 Corvette

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 17:47:49 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Torque, clutch bolts etc.

For the guy who was looking for the torque on his clutch plate bolts
there is a list in the Summit catalog for generic bolts in three
grades, page 55 in the tech tips. Certain specail bolts such as head
bolts will have different max torque specs but these numbers will
work for most purposes.

5/16 is 22#
3/8 is 37#
7/16 is 60#

Check it out :-)

The swift of foot and slow of wit
have more off road experiences....


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