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Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 12:28:46 -0600 (MDT)
From: owner-fordtrucks-digest ListService.net (fordtrucks-digest)
To: fordtrucks-digest ListService.net
Subject: fordtrucks-digest V1 #199
Reply-To: fordtrucks ListService.net
Sender: owner-fordtrucks-digest ListService.net


fordtrucks-digest Sunday, September 7 1997 Volume 01 : Number 199



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Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1979 And Older Trucks Digest
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=======================================================================
In this issue:

RE: carburation problem ["Gary, 78 BBB" ]
Oooops! ["Gary, 78 BBB" ]
Re: Timing, vacs, my new 302 ["Mark Mech" ]
302 and clutch ["Mark Mech" ]
Re: Split [Kelly Farough ]
RE: carburation problem [Kevin Kemmerer ]
RE: Timing, vacs and stuff [Kevin Kemmerer ]
RE: Timing, vacs, my new 302 [Kevin Kemmerer ]
Re: Timing, vacs and stuff ["Gary, 78 BBB" ]
Re: timning, advance, etc. ["Gary, 78 BBB" ]
Re: carburation problem ["Gary, 78 BBB" ]
Re: 302 and clutch ["Gary, 78 BBB" ]
Timing ["art l" ]

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Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 09:33:08 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: RE: carburation problem

> From: Tim Baker
> To: "'fordtrucks listservice.net'"
> Subject: RE: carburation problem
> Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 15:10:09 +0100
> Reply-to: fordtrucks listservice.net

> carb may be too big---check out Hot Rod Tips and Tricks prior
> issues----check library----show you how to drill and adjust ports to
> make carb. tuneable at idle..
>
> ----------
> From: SARHOG aol.com
> Sent: Saturday, September 06, 1997 10:11 PM
> To: fordtrucks listservice.net
> Subject: carburation problem
>
> My engine is running very rich, especially at idle, and I can't
> seem to
> solve it. I have a 460 with 429 non-CJ heads, offenhauser 4" single
> plane intake, tube headers to a dual exhaust, topped off with a
> holley model 4780 800 cfm double pumper carb with mechanical
> secondaries. The carb was rebuilt recently, a 6.5" power valve put
> in, and jetted down to #69 jets in front and #82 jets in back.
> Vacuum at idle is about 14-15", and initial timing is 12 BTDC.
> Here's the where it gets confusing....the idle mixture screws on the
> primary metering block are BOTTOMED, and it is still idling rich.
> Those mixture screws should completely shut off the fuel flow at
> idle, right?? Any idea where the fuel is coming from? Thanks for
> any insight.
>
> John Z.
> 67 F-100 460/C-6
> +-------------- Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1979 and Older
> +--------------+
> | Send posts to fordtrucks listservice.net,
> | | Send Unsubscribe requests to
> fordtrucks-request listservice.net | +-- Visit Our Web Site:
> http://www.ford-trucks.com/ --+
>
>

The swift of foot and slow of wit
have more off road experiences

- -- Gary --

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 09:37:04 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Oooops!

Sent that instead of canceling, sorry, meant to send Tim a note about
the binary format :-)

The swift of foot and slow of wit
have more off road experiences

- -- Gary --

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 07:10:44 -0700
From: "Mark Mech"
Subject: Re: Timing, vacs, my new 302

Dana wrote:
(snipped)
> just to be sure your not over advancing the engine 38-40 max. should be
> safe in my opinion ) If every thing is OK take it for spin ( talk about
> throttle response ) I am not suggesting that you normally drive that way
> just test for fun!
just to be sure your not over advancing the engine 38-40 max. should be
> safe in my opinion ) If every thing is OK take it for spin ( talk about
> throttle response ) I am not suggesting that you normally drive that way
> just test for fun!

I think you just proved the theory I was trying to explain in your last
sentence. I was told that 37deg. total advance is the optimal power setting
for the way
our American V-8s are designed. Therefore when driving in town where you
have stop and go traffic and are accelerating all the time, you want the
total advance as fast as you can get it because it translates into optimal
power. More power out of the same engine (without adding more fuel, bigger
carb etc.) equals more efficiency. I am not satisfied with 14 mpg. My first
302 in an F-100 was getting 19mpg with 130,000 miles on it and a stock 2
barrel to boot!
I have a friend that bought used 67 F-100 with the truck 6 cyl. and he was
getting 20mpg in town and 24 on the highway with a stock settup. I believe
our trucks (all cars for that matter) are capable of far more mileage than
the oil companies would like us to know about. I will be experimenting with
a device that eliminates restricive manifold vacuum and improves mileage.
I'll post my results.

Mark Mech
1913 E. El Parque
Tempe, Arizona 85282
aerofoam earthlink.net
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://home.earthlink.net/~aerofoam/

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 07:19:56 -0700
From: "Mark Mech"
Subject: 302 and clutch

I got my new 302 in last night and fired it up!
It seems to run well but at very low loading it is surging a bit and
running a little rough at low rpm.
This could be due to the timing tricks I posted earlier!
or it could be carb settings and the fact that the vacuum advance is
disabled. For some reason the new clutch wouldnt engage properly. I ran out
of adjustment on the rod and had to wedge a nut into the dimple on the fork
in order to get enough throw on the clutch. It is very stiff too. Are there
thinner pressure plates out there? Do I have to get a longer adjusting rod?
Or did they give me a screwed up clutch that is too thin. The only physical
explanation I can think of is that the 3 prongs on the P-plate arent
sticking out far enough. Anyone have some answers?


Mark Mech
1913 E. El Parque
Tempe, Arizona 85282
aerofoam earthlink.net
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://home.earthlink.net/~aerofoam/

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 08:37:30 -0600 (MDT)
From: Kelly Farough
Subject: Re: Split

Split the list. The benefits would be more significant for the pre-60
owners. Right now I have had to wade through 100+ messages and none
of them related to pre 60's trucks. If I need info for my 1977 then
I'll find it on the appropriate list. Nobody really loses anything
by the split other than a minor amount of time and effort.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 10:28:03 -0400
From: Kevin Kemmerer
Subject: RE: carburation problem

is there a small hole drilled in the throttle plates? these holes allow
the main jets to dump fuel into the carb - usually helping idle adjustment.
did you check float level?
if your air cleaner top is too close to the vent tubes, it can create a
venturi that sucks out fuel also - though this usually happens at high rpm.
also there should be 4 idle screws on that carb i think (my holleys do) are
all 4 bottomed or only the primarys?
it is not too big a carb. that motor will easily take dominators.

sleddog

- ----------
From: SARHOG aol.com[SMTP:SARHOG aol.com]
Sent: Saturday, September 06, 1997 1:11 PM
To: fordtrucks ListService.net
Subject: carburation problem

My engine is running very rich, especially at idle, and I can't seem
to
solve it. I have a 460 with 429 non-CJ heads, offenhauser 4" single plane
intake, tube headers to a dual exhaust, topped off with a holley model 4780
800 cfm double pumper carb with mechanical secondaries. The carb was
rebuilt
recently, a 6.5" power valve put in, and jetted down to #69 jets in front
and
#82 jets in back. Vacuum at idle is about 14-15", and initial timing is 12
BTDC. Here's the where it gets confusing....the idle mixture screws on the
primary metering block are BOTTOMED, and it is still idling rich. Those
mixture screws should completely shut off the fuel flow at idle, right??
Any
idea where the fuel is coming from? Thanks for any insight.

John Z.
67 F-100 460/C-6






+-------------- Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1979 and Older --------------+
| Send posts to fordtrucks listservice.net, |
| Send Unsubscribe requests to fordtrucks-request listservice.net |
+-- Visit Our Web Site: http://www.ford-trucks.com/ --+

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 10:42:25 -0400
From: Kevin Kemmerer
Subject: RE: Timing, vacs and stuff

i'll buy that for a dollar!

>>Wooow! I think I spent three cents this time!
- ----------
From: danadeb pacbell.net[SMTP:danadeb pacbell.net]
Sent: Sunday, September 07, 1997 5:57 AM
To: Ford Folks
Subject: Re: Timing, vacs and stuff

THIS IS NOT A FLAME!
It is just my two cents worth.

The mechanical advance responds to engine SPEED only.

Vacuum advance responds to engine LOAD only.


Vacuum advance was an attempt to gain fuel mileage and reduce emissions,
it is a MECHANICAL computer trying to control the engine at various
loads and speeds. Way back when, there was no such thing as vacuum
advance, all dist. used only mechanical. Most high performance engines
still use mechanical only.


I have always seen ( stock from Ford and all other car makers ) the
vacuum canister connected to the carb port which gives a reverse vacuum
signal as compared to the manifold vac. Under hard acceleration, if you
hook the dist vacuum advance up to manifold vacuum you will loose vacuum
signal because manifold vacuum goes down under WOT thus causing the
dist. to reduce the amount of advance when you need it the most. ( you
need more advance, to a limit, to allow the engine to speed up. advance
your timing at idle and the engine RPM increases ) Now heavy load at low
engine speeds presents a different situation, too much advance then,
will result in ping. At low RPM ( under 2000 or so ) the mechanical
advance is less then its maximum. With the throttle open allot, like
when climbing a hill but going rather slow (30 MPH in high gear) you
would be lucky to see 2000 RPM but your vacuum advance is seeing high
vacuum because you have your throttle plates open quite wide ( (high
vacuum = more or max. vacuum advance) + (low RPM = less than max.
mechanical advance) = less then max. advance = no ping!) Effectively
this is sort of a retard of the total advance. "T" in a vacuum gauge on
the carb port and see what it does under various RPM and load
conditions. Put the gauge on the manifold and do the test again. Compare
the two.


What I have found with my own testing, reading books and gaining info
from you folks on line, is that for most driving needs, 8-10 deg's
initial, 10-15 deg's mechanical ( all in by 2000 RPM) and 15-20 deg's
vacuum ( taken from the carb port ) results in a well mannered, tire
> burning, load hauling, good enough gas mileage ( we are talking V8's in
non aerodynamic trucks here, if you can't afford gas at 8-15 miles to
the gallon go get a Ford Escort ) truck. Some of the newer vacuum
advance cans allow too much advance, 30 deg's or so, added to initial
and mechanical and you get 50 deg's or more ( major ping, stumble,
backfire etc. ) I know, I was there just a few weeks ago! Right now I
am at 8 deg's initial, 10 deg's mechanical, and 20 deg's vacuum. Put the
peddle to the floor and you GO! Clime a steep hill at slow speeds on a
very hot day ( 95 deg's ) and then give it more gas without downshifting
and you GO! ( slight Ping! on 87 octane, NO ping on 89 octane )
....

---

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