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Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 10:26:00 -0600 (MDT)
From: owner-fordtrucks-digest ListService.net (fordtrucks-digest)
To: fordtrucks-digest ListService.net
Subject: fordtrucks-digest V1 #184
Reply-To: fordtrucks ListService.net
Sender: owner-fordtrucks-digest ListService.net


fordtrucks-digest Tuesday, September 2 1997 Volume 01 : Number 184



=======================================================================
Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1979 And Older Trucks Digest
Visit our web site: http://www.ford-trucks.com/
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email to the same address with the word "help" in the body of the
message.
=======================================================================
In this issue:

Re: fordtrucks, List splits ["Gary, 78 BBB" ]
Re: F-350 Brakes [wiandt coastalfcu.org (Larry Wiandt)]
Re: Disk for the rear '73 F100 ["Gary, 78 BBB" ]
Re: C6 transmission ["Gary, 78 BBB" ]
Re: C6 transmission ["Gary, 78 BBB" ]
Re: 302 front cover ["George Shepherd" ]
Re: F-350 Brakes ["George Shepherd" ]
Re: Vacuum advance Dura spark II dist. ["Gary, 78 BBB"
RE: 1950 F1 [Kevin Kemmerer ]
RE: Murphy's Law [Kevin Kemmerer ]
Re: Murphy's Law ["Mark Mech" ]
Frame Rivets [RICHARD_GARBER HP-USA-om21.om.hp.com]
Brakes, an update ["Gary, 78 BBB" ]
Re: Brakes, an update [John MacNamara ]

=======================================================================

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 07:48:23 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: fordtrucks, List splits

> From: "Deacon Blue"
> Subject: Re: fordtrucks-digest V1 #174
> Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 14:22:15 -0700

> Ken you want my suggestion go for the Jeep and lets dump
> pea-brained pukes
> like this! I've about had it with some Ford people! Then some are

Deacon Blue, we don't all have the same amount of time to apply to
our mail. I personally have lots of free time and like all the
comments as it keeps me busy so I don't get bored but some are only
interested in info on their own vehicles and don't have time to sort
through all the other non-pertainent mail. There really is a good
break point around 60 or so if I remember correctly and there is a
lot of 70's traffic (by some standards) since these models are more
easily obtained and there are more of them on the road.

I wanted more mail so I subscribed to two lists and it's been working
out for me. By making the lists smaller we all have that option
don't we but the other guys also have less mail which is ok too IMHO
:-)

The swift of foot and slow of wit
have more off road experiences

- -- Gary --

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 07:52:02 -0400
From: wiandt coastalfcu.org (Larry Wiandt)
Subject: Re: F-350 Brakes

I posted a similar thread in the fordtrucks80up list. I have a 93 F350
Crew Cab 4x4 and I have the same concern. I guess that is just the way
the F350 works. I am wondering if there is any aftermarket items that
can be installed to help. For now just keep a bunch of road between our
F350's and the next guy.


Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 21:15:02 +0000

> From: reedg ns2.cetlink.net
> Subject: Re: F-350 Brakes
>
> > From: "Dale and Donna Carmine"
> > Subject: F-350 Brakes
>
> I drove an '89 F-350 for a couple of months as a service truck. The
> brakes never worked great but when I was loaded down I forgot about
> the brakes and just geared down. I was told that was the way it aways
> was.
>
> > Anyone have experience with a heavily loaded F-350 having weak
> braking? We
> > use a '76 F-350 as a service vehicle. It runs across the scales
> right at
> > 8,000 lbs. Problem is on dry pavement I can stand on the brake with
> both
> > feet without a hint of wheel lock and very long stopping distances.
> My
> > co-workers claim that this was ford's early 'anti-lock' system (g).
> It's
> > o.k. out in the country but makes me very nervous to drive in town
> as there
> > is no such thing as a "panic stop". Booster has been repalced and
> the
> > master cyclinder has been replaced twice.
> > Is this typical braking carrying this weight?
> > What could be wrong? Brakes "feel" normal, just not much power.
> Has
> > always been serviced & repaired by a professional mechanic because
> it is a
> > company vehicle.
> > My '79 F-150 daily driver will stop much shorter even with the extra
> weight
> > of camping trailer and gear.
> >
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 07:54:32 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: Disk for the rear '73 F100

> From: "Deacon Blue"
> Subject: Disk for the rear '73 F100
> Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 18:00:41 -0700

> was looking at a Lincoln with rear disk and was wondering if it
> would bolt on to my 9". The Lincoln had a 9" rear but with coils and
> looked to be a little shorter than the one in my truck. They want
> $120 for the backing plates, calipers, disks and master cylinder. It
> would be well worth the price if it is adaptable. Any thoughts?

This is exactly the prefered set up as I understand it and I'm
looking for the same deal. If I could be where you are right now
you'd have to be quick not to miss that deal by golley! :-) They
might have to auction it to the highest bidder!

The swift of foot and slow of wit
have more off road experiences

- -- Gary --

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 08:02:54 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: C6 transmission

> From: reedg ns2.cetlink.net
> Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 22:28:40 +0000
> Subject: C6 transmission

> Quick question. My C6 transmission will not engage into drive until
> it warms up. I goes into reverse fine. But after it warms up
> everything is fine. Its a '78. Any thoughts? +-------------- Ford

Only a few things prevent high gear from engaging, low fluid, bad
modulator, vac hose to the modulator pulled off or leaking, bad
governor (but then it would never shift even warm), clogged passages
in the transmission due to old, dirty oil etc..

C-6's typically will shift into reverse even when everything else
fails to work. I have used that point to good advantage on many
occasions to get the fluid pumping so it would shift into a forward
gear. I have one that I rebuilt which tends to be sluggish in the
morning and haven't bothered to take a look so still don't know
exactly what's wrong with it but it worked fine once I got it into
gear so I just kept driving it till I took it out and junked the body
it was in. Some day I'll take a look.

The swift of foot and slow of wit
have more off road experiences

- -- Gary --

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 08:09:35 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: C6 transmission

> From: SuperMagot aol.com
> Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 23:53:56 -0400 (EDT)
> Subject: Re: C6 transmission

> I put it in I used a floor jack to roll it around on. Apparently I
> bent the pan (only slightly cause I didnot notice) and the clearance
> between the oil pump and the pan was to low. This kept enough fluid
> from being pumped ergo less pressure ergo no shift. It had it fixed
> and havenot had problems since....

Very good point Mike, I had mine in a 75 van converted to 4wd and
wasn't very kind to it. It did have some dents in it but it never
occured to me that they might interfere with oil flow!???

The swift of foot and slow of wit
have more off road experiences

- -- Gary --

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 07:18:07 -0500
From: "George Shepherd"
Subject: Re: 302 front cover

- ----------
> From: Deacon Blue
> To: fordtrucks ListService.net
> Subject: Re: 302 front cover
> Date: Tuesday, September 02, 1997 1:06 AM
>
> Heat the cover with a propane torch around the bolt area without
heating
> the bolt. This will expand the cover enlarging the holes. keep the flame
> moving and don't get the aluminum red hot. rock it out with a large
standard
> screw driver tapping on the bolt and cover now and then to brake up the
> corrosion. it should come apart in short time!

The following is a stunt done by professionals, don't try it indoors.

> By the way a propane torch is the best way to find vacuum leaks. with
no
> flame and turned on low, with the engine running guide the nozzle around
the
> intake. If you come across a vacuum leak the engine rpm will increase.
after
> your finished there is no mess! $.04 works on pre '73s so this isn't poop
> wasted time! :]
>
> Deacon Blue
> jstrigas worldnet.att.net
> It's here, It's thin. It's under construction. It's my Homepage!
> http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://home.att.net/~jstrigas/Homepage
> or if your a Tbird fan
> http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.dragonfire.net/~site/tbirdknights/
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mark Mech
> To: fordtrucks ListService.net
> Date: Monday, September 01, 1997 10:27 PM
> Subject: Re: 302 front cover
>
>
>
> >I dont think the bolts will come out until I get the cover off. Then
There
> >will be enough meat to grab with vise grips. Is there something that
will
> >actually eat the rust? I have soaked it in liquid wrench and thought
about
> >some acid. I lightly beat on the cover and drove a thin wedge between it
> >and the block but it hasnt budged yet.
> >
> > Mark Mech
> > 1913 E. El Parque
> > Tempe, Arizona 85282
> > aerofoam earthlink.net
> > http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://home.earthlink.net/~aerofoam/
> >
> >
> >+-------------- Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1979 and Older --------------+
> >| Send posts to fordtrucks listservice.net, |
> >| Send Unsubscribe requests to fordtrucks-request listservice.net |
> >+-- Visit Our Web Site: http://www.ford-trucks.com/ --+
> >
>
> +-------------- Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1979 and Older --------------+
> | Send posts to fordtrucks listservice.net, |
> | Send Unsubscribe requests to fordtrucks-request listservice.net |
> +-- Visit Our Web Site: http://www.ford-trucks.com/ --+

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 07:23:02 -0500
From: "George Shepherd"
Subject: Re: F-350 Brakes

Did you read the reply that said low vaccume was a problem?

- ----------
> From: Larry Wiandt
> To: fordtrucks ListService.net
> Subject: Re: F-350 Brakes
> Date: Tuesday, September 02, 1997 6:52 AM
>
> I posted a similar thread in the fordtrucks80up list. I have a 93 F350
> Crew Cab 4x4 and I have the same concern. I guess that is just the way
> the F350 works. I am wondering if there is any aftermarket items that
> can be installed to help. For now just keep a bunch of road between our
> F350's and the next guy.
>
>
> Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 21:15:02 +0000
>
> > From: reedg ns2.cetlink.net
> > Subject: Re: F-350 Brakes
> >
> > > From: "Dale and Donna Carmine"
> > > Subject: F-350 Brakes
> >
> > I drove an '89 F-350 for a couple of months as a service truck. The
> > brakes never worked great but when I was loaded down I forgot about
> > the brakes and just geared down. I was told that was the way it aways
> > was.
> >
> > > Anyone have experience with a heavily loaded F-350 having weak
> > braking? We
> > > use a '76 F-350 as a service vehicle. It runs across the scales
> > right at
> > > 8,000 lbs. Problem is on dry pavement I can stand on the brake with
> > both
> > > feet without a hint of wheel lock and very long stopping distances.
> > My
> > > co-workers claim that this was ford's early 'anti-lock' system (g).
> > It's
> > > o.k. out in the country but makes me very nervous to drive in town
> > as there
> > > is no such thing as a "panic stop". Booster has been repalced and
> > the
> > > master cyclinder has been replaced twice.
> > > Is this typical braking carrying this weight?
> > > What could be wrong? Brakes "feel" normal, just not much power.
> > Has
> > > always been serviced & repaired by a professional mechanic because
> > it is a
> > > company vehicle.
> > > My '79 F-150 daily driver will stop much shorter even with the extra
> > weight
> > > of camping trailer and gear.
> > >
> >
>
>
>
> +-------------- Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1979 and Older --------------+
> | Send posts to fordtrucks listservice.net, |
> | Send Unsubscribe requests to fordtrucks-request listservice.net |
> +-- Visit Our Web Site: http://www.ford-trucks.com/ --+

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 08:43:06 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: Vacuum advance Dura spark II dist.

> From: danadeb pacbell.net
> Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 13:08:03 -0700
> Subject: Re: Vacuum advance Dura spark II dist.

> The trouble started the day after I brought the truck home. the gear
> on the end of the dist sheared the roll pin. ( I fixed the oil pump
> problem that caused it ) I went to the local auto parts store and
> bought a rebuilt point dist. All was fine until the used vacuum
> canister developed a leak. ( it was one of the good ones with
> removable spring and stop )I replaced the canister with a newer

I've seen this on many 335 series engines, oil pressure drops for a
while and after some more mileage the oil pump freezes twisting the
hex shaft and shearing the roll pin in the dist gear. One I looked
at had varnish caught between the rotors (looked like onion skin
paper) from the inside of the pickup tube. Now when I rebuild I
always change the pickup tube.

> style canister ( adjustable spring tension only) because that's all
> they had. Since then I have had a time trying to get the spark curve

Never saw one with an adjustable stop but I haven't delt with pre
Dura spark that much.

> correct. The newer style canisters seem to have around 20-30 deg of
> advance add that to the 10 deg of mechanical plus 6 or so initial
> and you get 36-46 deg total as measured from the damper pulley. I
> have replaced the dist many times now one actually came from the
> rebuilder with 50 total deg's of advance. finally I decided to
> switch over to a Dura Spark II system. From the rebuilder it has a
> total of 30 deg's advance the mechanical starts at 2500 and is all
> in by around 3000-3500 the vacuum can provide 20 deg's and seems to
> come on too fast.

These numbers all look strange to me. Mechanical advance should
start to move just off idle (400-500 rpm) and climb through a
complex, non linear curve till about 3500 rpm in a stock engine. The
early 70's points distributors should have had a little less vac
advance but still in the range of 13 - 21 degrees of mechanical and
anywhere from 2 - 12 degrees of initial with 8 - 10 being most common
that I've seen. If your mechanical doesn't start till 2500 then the
plate is stuck or the weights aren't free to move etc. I would say?

Dura spark came out after the lean burn era had begun so more vac
advance is to be expected to allow more advance at idle and cruise.
I tried to fix my curve on a distributor machine and found out it's
pretty hard to beat the factory curve for all around drivability.
Racing requires a different approach which is irrelevant to a street
machine or off road (trail) machine.

For best drivability the advance follows the cam configuration as it
controls where the torque comes in under various throttle positions
and rpms etc. and is initially determined at the factory by
extensive dyno testing. I believe, but haven't yet found the time to
experiment and prove my theory, that it's possible to set the spring
pressure in the vac to work with the mechanical advance for good
drivability but you must start with a distributor which has the
correct springs and tab settings for your engine and vehicle. This
point can't be stressed enough IMHO as I discoverd with my
experiments with the dist machine. I finally went to the junk yard
and obtained a points distributor for the year engine I had and
replaced the points plate with the magnetic pickup but retained the
mechanical advance totally stock and it worked very well (finally).
Then by adjusting the vac I was able to run about 12 degrees initial
with (I believe) 13 mechanical and what ever the vac gave me (can't
remember) with no spark knock at any speed under any conditions and
also was able to get it up to 12 mpg with the wide ratio gear set and
2.75 gears with stock tires.

My 351M knocks under load at low rpms and I will be working on that
soon. (I almost have brakes now) I'll let you know as soon as I'm
able to do any thing with it how it works out :-)

The swift of foot and slow of wit
have more off road experiences

- -- Gary --

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 09:44:37 -0400
From: Kevin Kemmerer
Subject: RE: 1950 F1

don
a agree with this, but does this mean you gave up on the flathead?

sleddog
- ----------
From: Ctrucknut aol.com[SMTP:Ctrucknut aol.com]
Sent: Monday, September 01, 1997 1:31 AM
To: fordtrucks ListService.net
Subject: Re: 1950 F1

Don,
Even though the 302/C4 is a more common combination for F-1's and F-100's, I
think if the Intern*tional H*rvester diesel engine runs half way decent then
drop that in there. I mean think about it, would you rather be the only
person around with a 1950 F-1 with an Intern*tional H*rvester diesel engine,
or one of the hundreds of people with a 1950 F-1 with a 302/C4 combination?

- -Ctrucknut






+-------------- Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1979 and Older --------------+
| Send posts to fordtrucks listservice.net, |
| Send Unsubscribe requests to fordtrucks-request listservice.net |
+-- Visit Our Web Site: http://www.ford-trucks.com/ --+

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 10:07:47 -0400
From: Kevin Kemmerer
Subject: RE: Murphy's Law

no, you're not the only one. i helped swap a motor once using a farm
tracter with a bucket on front. the hydraulics leaked and as fast as we
could work the engine would fall. My 460 in my truck still doesn't fit
perfect. a 302 put into an early 80's 6 cyl. 2wd needed to have the frame
(or crossmember? i can't quit remember now.) cut out to clear the oil
filter (why didn't we use a remote adapter?) which eventually ended up in a
fight with the oil filter and a long trail of oil following the truck after
the first big jump.

my engine stand currently has a good bend in it from holding an assembled
460 for a year or so, and then doing work on it as the support bent with
each tightened or loosend bolt. hooking up the power steering from the box
to pump ended up as a custom mutt of a line that cost over $40 because of
not having the right parts at the right time. i pinched electrical wires
between the tranny and cab. the t-case never did line up properly after
the last motor swap, and i ended up just about crushing the almost dent
free grill work when the hoist i borrowed didn't go high enough and would't
roll in my gravel driveway. at least the motor didn't hit the ground too
hard. and ..............

sorry to hear you have problems. i hope the engine and you are OK.

sleddog

- ----------
From: reedg ns2.cetlink.net[SMTP:reedg ns2.cetlink.net]
Sent: Monday, September 01, 1997 5:08 PM
To: fordtrucks ListService.net
Subject: Murphy's Law

I'm not going into all the things that went wrong with this engine
swap, but the last thing that went wrong was when the engine hoist
bent a leg and the 460 came tumbling down. Please let me know that
I'm not the only one that has problems when I try to do something
like this.






+-------------- Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1979 and Older --------------+
| Send posts to fordtrucks listservice.net, |
| Send Unsubscribe requests to fordtrucks-request listservice.net |
+-- Visit Our Web Site: http://www.ford-trucks.com/ --+

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 07:50:04 -0700
From: "Mark Mech"
Subject: Re: Murphy's Law

My oil pan drain was stripped so I had a friend with $60,000 worth of
aerospace welding certifications to his name, weld a very nice stainless
threaded sleave on the pan. It was perfect................Later I realized
we had installed it upside down and I had to go get a tap and re tap the
tapered thread from the other direction.


Mark Mech
1913 E. El Parque
Tempe, Arizona 85282
aerofoam earthlink.net
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://home.earthlink.net/~aerofoam/

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 2 Sep 97 11:23:07 -0400
From: RICHARD_GARBER HP-USA-om21.om.hp.com
Subject: Frame Rivets

Item Subject: Text Item
Hello All,

I removed the rear hangers to gain access to some rust. How do you
replace the Hot Rivets??

I'am ready to paint the engine and can't find the correct color. Does
any one have a good source for hi temp paint? It's a 54 223 6-cly
the color is dark red, all I can find is an orange/red that is way
off.

In response to the airplane hood ord. They were an option from 53 to
55 and mabey 56. Mine came from a 54.

Ken- Please break up the list, I get pounded with e-mails and any
thing above 64 does me no good.


Thanks
Rich
54 F100

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 11:54:47 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Brakes, an update

Weeeeeell, I've got my stainless steel braided flex lines on the
bronco now, one for each axle, front and rear from Skyjacker (Cepek)
and two wheel lines from Earl's. I think I know why some lines,
though quality made are not dot approved, the originals had square
banjo fittings on one end which fit into a square spot on the
caliper so they could not be moved to loosen the banjo bolt. The
new ones from Earl's have round banjos which may, over time, loosen
from the tugging of the wheel while turning etc..

I bought a double flare kit and finally learned how to make a good
flare. (helps to turn the clamp around with the chamfer on the
correct side) and discovered that I can make a slightly better flare
if I leave just a tad more material sticking out initially than the
book calls for. I don't think I will ever buy standard tubing again
since it never quite fits the way I want and solid line eliminates
potential leaks between the axles. It's really easy once you get the
principles sorted out. I used a little anti-seize to lube the die
which helped the forming process.

Didn't have time to fully bleed the brakes last night but got most of
the air out and have fairly solid pedal today on the way to work but
still relatively little stopping power. It appears that the
stainless lines have helped a bit with the pedal firmness and I was
able to skidd a couple of tires at speed but it took just about all
the power I could exert on the pedal to do it. I swear, I used to
set up 4 wheel drums with less head ache than this!

The other irritating thing is the uneveness of pressure on the
wheels. It tends to pull in a panick stop so that it's really
disconcerting. I've played with the drum adjustemet but this pull
seems to be due to the front disks since it never pulls the same way
twice. If I ever get this thing figured out I'll REALLY be an expert
on brakes by golley! :-)

The swift of foot and slow of wit
have more off road experiences

- -- Gary --

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 09:26:04 -0700
From: John MacNamara
Subject: Re: Brakes, an update

Gary, 78 BBB wrote:
>
> Weeeeeell, I've got my stainless steel braided flex lines on the
> bronco now, one for each axle, front and rear from Skyjacker (Cepek)
> and two wheel lines from Earl's. I think I know why some lines,
> though quality made are not dot approved, the originals had square
> banjo fittings on one end which fit into a square spot on the
> caliper so they could not be moved to loosen the banjo bolt. The
> new ones from Earl's have round banjos which may, over time, loosen
> from the tugging of the wheel while turning etc..
>
> I bought a double flare kit and finally learned how to make a good
> flare. (helps to turn the clamp around with the chamfer on the
> correct side) and discovered that I can make a slightly better flare
> if I leave just a tad more material sticking out initially than the
> book calls for. I don't think I will ever buy standard tubing again
> since it never quite fits the way I want and solid line eliminates
> potential leaks between the axles. It's really easy once you get the
> principles sorted out. I used a little anti-seize to lube the die
> which helped the forming process.
>
> Didn't have time to fully bleed the brakes last night but got most of
> the air out and have fairly solid pedal today on the way to work but
> still relatively little stopping power. It appears that the
> stainless lines have helped a bit with the pedal firmness and I was
> able to skidd a couple of tires at speed but it took just about all
> the power I could exert on the pedal to do it. I swear, I used to
> set up 4 wheel drums with less head ache than this!
>
> The other irritating thing is the uneveness of pressure on the
> wheels. It tends to pull in a panick stop so that it's really
> disconcerting. I've played with the drum adjustemet but this pull
> seems to be due to the front disks since it never pulls the same way
> twice. If I ever get this thing figured out I'll REALLY be an expert
> on brakes by golley! :-)
>
> The swift of foot and slow of wit
> have more off road experiences
>
> -- Gary --
> +-------------- Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1979 and Older --------------+
> | Send posts to fordtrucks ....


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