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From: owner-pre61-list-digest ford-trucks.com (pre61-list-digest)
To: pre61-list-digest ford-trucks.com
Subject: pre61-list-digest V3 #383
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pre61-list-digest Thursday, December 30 1999 Volume 03 : Number 383



=======================================================================
Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1948 - 1948 truck and vans
Visit our web site: http://www.ford-trucks.com/
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=======================================================================
In this issue:

Re: FTE Pre61 - Re: still trying to start truck engine
FTE Pre61 - oil & coolant
FTE Pre61 - old motor, found inert
FTE Pre61 - Stuff
Re: FTE Pre61 - voting on the new list
FTE Pre61 - REPLY To Kreig
Re: FTE Pre61 - Synchronizer for 3-speed transm. of a 1949 F-1 truck
Re: FTE Pre61 - 4 speed trans
Re: FTE Pre61 - Re: still trying to start truck engine
Re: FTE Pre61 - 1952 F-1 Trailer Hitch

=======================================================================

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 06:21:40 -0500
From: "Joe Michels" starpower.net>
Subject: Re: FTE Pre61 - Re: still trying to start truck engine

Kreig-- So sorry to hear that you are struggling to get your truck started.
I think that everyone on the net has had frustration at one time or
another---- reading and watching these posts sometimes gives you an idea of
"where to go next" if you have not done this before.

When I was working on mine, the truck would not start!!!!! I did
everything, fuel pump, carb, gas line/tank, points, plug, condensor, rotor,
belts, rebuilt the starter--- everything--- and still, no fire!!! I knew
that I had gas, air and spark. FINALLY, after LOTS of frustration and REAL
CHOICE WORDS-- I told the guys in my office about it. One guy said, "Did
you take the distributor out?" I said, "Sure, I had to put the points in,"
He said, "There is your problem-- get to Top Dead Center on #1 cylinder and
see where the rotor is (should point at #1 plug wire on the distributor
cap)---- I did that and found that I was pointed at #4--- I had
inadvertently reversed the distributor--- it was firing on the exhaust
stroke, not the compression stroke--- changed the distributor 180 degrees
just turned the rotor with the distributor out), put it back in and VIOLA--
we had IGNITION!!!! It only took 3 months to do so!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Trust me, we ALL sympathize with you on this endeavor-- this list is hear to
give you all kinds of ideas---- maybe someone close to you in Western
Washington will come over and give a look--- Don't get discouraged-- this is
part of the process!!!


Joebob
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Kreig McBride memes.com>
To: ford-trucks.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 30, 1999 1:58 AM
Subject: Re: FTE Pre61 - Re: still trying to start truck engine


> Oh. Some one recommended I tap the pistons. Guess that option isn't an
> option.
> This internet thing isn't so good. Now everyone in the whole world knows
how
> much of a dummy I am.
>
> Kreig
> -----Original Message-----
> From: sam fugate ford-trucks.com>
> To: pre61-list ford-trucks.com ford-trucks.com>
> Date: Wednesday, December 29, 1999 5:03 PM
> Subject: Re: FTE Pre61 - Re: still trying to start truck engine
>
>
> >Hey Kreig,
> >How are you tapping the top of the pistons with the heads still on the
> >engine?
> >The flathead engines valves are directly under the spark plug holes
(well,
> >almost) not the pistons. The only way to tap the pistons is to remove the
> >heads.
> >Just a little input.
> >Sam in Mount Sterling
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: Kreig McBride memes.com>
> >To: atis.net>
> >Cc: ford-trucks.com>
> >Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 1999 5:27 PM
> >Subject: FTE Pre61 - Re: still trying to start truck engine
> >
> >
> >> OK Ok OK
> >> Heres the plan with the Ford Flathead V8
> >> I will fill all cylinders to the top with a penetrating liquid.
> >> I will gently tap on the piston tops with a wood or soft brass rod to
> >> "loosen" the pistons.
> >> I will continue to try and rotate the engine using one of several very
> >> gentle methods as recommended.
> >> When all else fails I will remove the heads and have a look-see.
> >>
> >> Towing the truck to rotate the engine is not an option.
> >>
> >> I was hoping to get the engine running and avoid a rebuild but we will
> >see.
> >>
> >> Thanks for all of the help.
> >>
> >> Kreig in Bellingham
> >>
> >> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info
http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
> >>
> >
> >== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
> >
>
> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 09:09:52 -0500
From: "Sheldon Rier" golden.net>
Subject: FTE Pre61 - oil & coolant

Hi All

neither of these questions relates to pre 61's but you are a smart bunch
so.......

Question A) - ~1970 302 in truck I bought recently that hadn't been ran for
long in years
thermostat didn't seem to be opening - went to replace tstat & found the
thermostat housing and nearby hoses totally plugged with something that
looks like cheese - is so tough that the power washer wouldn't loosen it
until most of it was loosened with screwdriver - what is it, how did it get
there, where else is it likely to be & how do you get rid of it?????

Question 2) our one work truck is an old tired 88 F150 with equally tired
302 but still runs/drives OK - oil pressure is very low especially when
hot - in the cold weather would we be better to run 5w or 10w oil to insure
lubrication on start up or a heavier oil that helps maintain oil pressure
when it gets to operating temp

Happy New Year
Sheldon
Ontario, Canada

P.S. - I encourage everyone to participate in the FTE charity drive - when I
think of the time & money saved through info learned on this list a small
donation seems like a bargain-THANKS KEN!

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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 10:06:40 -0500
From: 47Fred prodigy.net>
Subject: FTE Pre61 - old motor, found inert

Kreig McBride wrote:
>
>
> I was hoping to get the engine running and avoid a rebuild but we will see.

A seized engine is of course one of the most nasty things in the
world, and can range from a minor annoyance to major catastrophe. As can
be seen from this little series with Mr. McB, everybody has an opinion
and, as in most things, there is no one way to set the matter to rights.
Second, it's darned hard to second guess what someone running a computer
e-mail program has, or is, actually doing to the vehicle, a key bit of
information always seems to get lost in the process.
follows now the Fred plan:
Any vehicle that has a unknown history and has set for more than a
few weeks should be approached as if it were frozen stiff until proven
otherwise. It should also be assumed that the points are corroded, the
clutch is stuck and the carburetor is full of aluminum goo.
Step one: rotate the engine by the fan or by the front crank pulley
to establish it will turn all the way around, at least one full turn..
Throwing in a battery and wanging the starter into a dead stuck flywheel
may well add to your grief. I do this first, 'cause it's the most fun,
also if it won't turn, it saves me a lot of prep. work.
Step two: pull all the plugs, look for rust and smashed electrodes.
Carbon and crud are normal, rust and collision damage are not. (Won't
turn plus busted electrode equals broken something.)
Step Three: Inspect the points, fuel line and fuel filter bowls, if
the bowl and fuel line is full of crud, the carburetor probably is also.
Points can be cleaned with a paper matchbook striker, and the matchbook
cover makes a good gauge to gap a point set also.
Ok, so it won't turn over, if the plugs are not rusty, it's probably
not bad, type F automatic transmission fluid into the cylinders, or if
you feel flush, Marvel Mystery Oil, but the ATF is just as good, if not
better. At least 4 teaspoons, (sounds like Mom?) in every hole. Let the
ATF soak at least overnight, and try working the motor with the biggest
wrench you can fit onto the crank, a chain wrench or a pipe wrench works
if there is no nut. Don't use things like brake fluid, fuel oil, or
anything else incompatible with motor oil. Don't forget that a frozen
lifer can stop up the whole works too. If the plugs are clean, pop the
manifold, and check the cam system. If the plugs had rust in them, hold
your nose and plan on pulling the motor, or at least the heads, it's
probably toast.
A motor full of rust is probably never going to run again with any
degree of reliability, even if the thing can be fired, you can bet the
rings will be stuck, the cylinders pitted and the whole mess will be
full of abrasive iron powder. The valve seats may be shot and the valves
ruined or stuck in the bargain. I once did this to a 292, first a stuck
valve head broke off and split a piston like a meat ax, then the main
bearings let go to the point that the crank sawed the rear main seal
retainer in half. Since I only gave $10 for the motor, I wasn't real
heartbroken, that's when the 312 went in, but that's another story.
Once a SALVAGEABLE motor is free, and the points, clutch and fuel
system are in good order, I always mix up a batch of fresh gas with
about 2 ounces per gallon of ATF, a littler stronger if I suspect a
totally dry engine. My '57 spends a good deal of its time in the barn
these days, I run it about once a year, but it always gets a fix of
gas/ATF, smokes like heck, but its doing all the moving parts exposed to
fuel good. Don't forget the oil either, a fresh charge and a new filter
BEFORE you start it, and quick compression check (just a finger in every
hole works, if it doesn't suck and blow, watch out) will let you know if
there is a stuck valve.
47Fred
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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 15:11:11 EST
From: FiftySevenF100 aol.com
Subject: FTE Pre61 - Stuff

Howard - Great looking truck. Makes the new ones look like the paint was
toweled on. Way, WAy, WAY out of my league financially!

Krieg - look on the bright side - at least your not sharing with the world
how you cracked a flathead block!

Glenn in TN
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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 17:19:16 EST
From: JRFiero aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE Pre61 - voting on the new list

In a message dated 12/19/1999 6:51:24 AM Eastern Standard Time,
jniolon wans.net writes:

> Why have only 52 people voted ???

- - Because its the wrong question. Should instead be a carefully worded
question about allowing limited discussion of non-Ford parts.
- - Because numerous of us, I bet, never (almost never) go to the website. I
just did, it took me an inordinate amount of time to find the 'voting' area,
and even then I didn't vote, 'cause of response 1 above.
- - Because we don't know what a 'No' vote means. I don't think there should
be separate list, but that's because 1) I get too much mail from various
lists already, and 2) I don't think the valid Ford content and experience of
those who have non-Ford engines should be removed from the lists I do pay
attention to (or, to which I do pay attention). So a 'no' vote could mean
all that, or it could mean I don't want to hear about non-Ford stuff.
- - Therefore, I'm not voting.
== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 17:22:05 EST
From: VegmanOCF aol.com
Subject: FTE Pre61 - REPLY To Kreig

In a message dated 12/30/1999 2:52:01 AM Pacific Standard Time,
owner-pre61-list-digest ford-trucks.com writes:

> Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 14:27:02 -0800
> From: "Kreig McBride" memes.com>
> Subject: FTE Pre61 - Re: still trying to start truck engine
>
> OK Ok OK
> Heres the plan with the Ford Flathead V8
> I will fill all cylinders to the top with a penetrating liquid.
> I will gently tap on the piston tops with a wood or soft brass rod to
> "loosen" the pistons.
> I will continue to try and rotate the engine using one of several very
> gentle methods as recommended.
> When all else fails I will remove the heads and have a look-see.
>
> Towing the truck to rotate the engine is not an option.
>
> I was hoping to get the engine running and avoid a rebuild but we will see.
>
> Thanks for all of the help.
>
> Kreig in Bellingham
>
Kreig, the spark plug hole is not directly over the piston, so you won't be
able to 'tap' on the piston through the spark plug hole. I'd advise saving
yourself a lot of trouble (and expense) by pulling the heads and checking out
the problem before you make things worse. Flatheads that have been sitting a
long time often develop rust between the valves and valve guides, causing the
engine to lockup. Forcing it to turn may well result in stripping the teeth
off the cam gear, breaking the camshaft, bending valves, etc. You might want
to just pull the intake manifold and look at the intake valves and see if the
stems are covered with rust. Good luck. Phillip
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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 17:23:32 EST
From: JRFiero aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE Pre61 - Synchronizer for 3-speed transm. of a 1949 F-1 truck

In a message dated 12/19/1999 4:51:40 PM Eastern Standard Time,
pierre.yves.leduc DMI.USherb.CA writes:

> Hi! I am looking for a synchronizer for the 3-speed transmission of my 1949
> F-1 pickup truck. Actually, the parts I realy need (if they could be found
> and/or
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://home.earthlink.net/~dwentz - Dan used to have a tranny from his '50
(think its a '50) free. Only he knows how bad a condition it's in ...
== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 17:28:59 EST
From: JRFiero aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE Pre61 - 4 speed trans

In a message dated 12/20/1999 12:30:08 AM Eastern Standard Time,
billyrob digitalexp.com writes:

> I'm looking for a 4 speed trans to put in my '50 F-1.
> Is a 4 speed interchangable w/ the stock 3 speed?
>
I assume you know already, but the 4-spd from '50 is a fully crashbox - no
sychros at all. When I was young and foolish, I put a 4-spd in my '52 and
was then horrified by the noise and shifting. Interestingly enough, I
believe in '52 there was a synchro 4-spd, so mine was probably a '51 or
earlier.
But interchangeable, yes, as long as its from a little truck. My first
attempt at a 4-spd was a monster out of some school bus or something, no way
it was going to fit.
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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 17:35:30 -0800
From: sainey impop.bellatlantic.net
Subject: Re: FTE Pre61 - Re: still trying to start truck engine

I doubt you could consider yourself to be a dummy. Anyone who is working on
an old truck has to expect a lot of trial and error/hit and miss no matter what
the experience level of the individual. I'm a certified auto mechanic and you
should have been around when I rebuilt the rear axle in my 39. I ended up
swapping the axle housings around three times after I put it back in the truck
till I finally figured out what was going on. When you read the manuals on
these old trucks, there's so many things that the writers automatically thought
you knew (including the valves are under the sparkplug hole on a flathead). The
only option for us is to try and figure out what's going on and when you can't,
get on the list and ask. Everyone here is more than willing to help, even if
you think it is something foolish. Everyone has to start somewhere. And if
anyone ever needs to know how to rebuild a banjo axle rear end. I can give them
explicit instructions on what not to do. :)

Steve

39 1/2 ton Hopped up Flathead

Kreig McBride wrote:

> Oh. Some one recommended I tap the pistons. Guess that option isn't an
> option.
> This internet thing isn't so good. Now everyone in the whole world knows how
> much of a dummy I am.
>
> Kreig
> -----Original Message-----
> From: sam fugate ford-trucks.com>
> To: pre61-list ford-trucks.com ford-trucks.com>
> Date: Wednesday, December 29, 1999 5:03 PM
> Subject: Re: FTE Pre61 - Re: still trying to start truck engine
>
> >Hey Kreig,
> >How are you tapping the top of the pistons with the heads still on the
> >engine?
> >The flathead engines valves are directly under the spark plug holes (well,
> >almost) not the pistons. The only way to tap the pistons is to remove the
> >heads.
> >Just a little input.
> >Sam in Mount Sterling
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: Kreig McBride memes.com>
> >To: atis.net>
> >Cc: ford-trucks.com>
> >Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 1999 5:27 PM
> >Subject: FTE Pre61 - Re: still trying to start truck engine
> >
> >
> >> OK Ok OK
> >> Heres the plan with the Ford Flathead V8
> >> I will fill all cylinders to the top with a penetrating liquid.
> >> I will gently tap on the piston tops with a wood or soft brass rod to
> >> "loosen" the pistons.
> >> I will continue to try and rotate the engine using one of several very
> >> gentle methods as recommended.
> >> When all else fails I will remove the heads and have a look-see.
> >>
> >> Towing the truck to rotate the engine is not an option.
> >>
> >> I was hoping to get the engine running and avoid a rebuild but we will
> >see.
> >>
> >> Thanks for all of the help.
> >>
> >> Kreig in Bellingham
> >>
> >> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
> >>
> >
> >== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
> >
>
> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 18:52:58 EST
From: JRFiero aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE Pre61 - 1952 F-1 Trailer Hitch

In a message dated 12/26/1999 8:32:38 PM Eastern Standard Time,
shark4 pop.dn.net writes:

> It looks like
> the stock rear bumper will support pulling a medium-sized
> trailer,
When I think back to the ungodly loads I pulled with the welded-on hitch
on the bumper of my '52 panel, I shudder. But nothing ever went wrong,
scared myself with the braking effort, and undoubtedly shortened the clutch
life, but the bumper and brackets held up nicely. Me and my ruddy brown
primer '52 towed my white and rust '56 Karmen Ghia autocross car all over the
place. Ripped the center out of the clutch disc coming into a toll booth on
route 95 in CT, just waved and drove right through (wouldn't disengage). Had
to discuss this with the State Troopers when I managed to get to the side of
the road. They left; I unhitched the Karmen Ghia and drove it to Long....


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