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pre61-list-digest Tuesday, November 9 1999 Volume 03 : Number 327



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Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1948 - 1948 truck and vans
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In this issue:

Re: FTE Pre61 - generator problems, '54 F-100
Re: FTE Pre61 - door locks?
Re: FTE Pre61 - overheating
Re: FTE Pre61 - overheating
RE: FTE Pre61 - generator problems, '54 F-100
FTE Pre61 - Flathead water pump
FTE Pre61 - Re: overheating
Re: FTE Pre61 - Re: overheating
RE: FTE Pre61 - door locks?
FTE Pre61 - drip rail sealer
Re: FTE Pre61 - generator problems, '54 F-100
FTE Pre61 - '56 temp sender/gauge
Re: FTE Pre61 - drip rail sealer

=======================================================================

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1999 06:14:32 -0500
From: "Joe Michels"
Subject: Re: FTE Pre61 - generator problems, '54 F-100

I think that you need to replace all of the cables-- no reason to have a
rebuilt truck and then have 45 year old cables-- replace all of them, step
1.

Check the output voltage from the generator-- you should get about 8 volts
on a 6 volt system. If you are not getting that much, check the generator--
brushes are probably bad-- maybe a generator rebuild-- step 2. In this
step, you may wish to have it done at the shop downtown, they will charge
about the same to do it as you are going to spend messing with it.

If voltage is OK., ie, 8 volts out of generator, check the regulator--
sounds like you possibly have either a generator or regulator problem. If
you need a new one, NAPA has them, price is right.

If all above checks OK, then you have a ground problem-- check all , repeat
all grounding connections as well.

Have battery checked at the battery shop, under load. Battery may be run
down-- you need to have all good components in the system initially--
troubleshooting becomes easier.

Sounds like you have a nice rig, replacing, checking all of these factors
will insure that you have the proper electrical conditions for optiumum
performance.

Joebob
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Abram H. Stauffer
To:
Sent: Monday, November 08, 1999 11:59 PM
Subject: FTE Pre61 - generator problems, '54 F-100


> Since I got my truck back from the body shop I have had some minor
> electrical problems. I got a new battery but it didn't seem to be
> charging completely. I replaced both battery cables thinking since they
> are 45 yrs. old maybe they are corroded and not able to carry a full
> load to start the truck or to fully charge the battery. They were
> brittle and corroded under the old rubber insulation. But I still had
> the same problems. Tonight I replaced the cable going from the starter
> solenoid to the starter. The condition of this cable was worse than the
> old battery cables. However, I don't think I have solved the problem.
> Should I replace the ground cable from the starter? or do I have a
> generator problem? In '54 the F-100's were given an idiot light for
> the gen. and oil press. instead of a gauge, so I can't see how much it
> is charging. Maybe this will help: when the headlights are on the gen.
> light glows slightly when idling. When I rev the engine the gen. light
> gets brighter. Do I have a generator problem?
> Thanks, At the end of this week I will have some time to take it
> down to my mechanic friend at the local gargage.
> Abe
> PS: BTW, I will not change to a 12 volt system.
> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 09 Nov 1999 06:30:27 -0500
From: "Thomas J. Teixeira"
Subject: Re: FTE Pre61 - door locks?

At 09:01 PM 11/08/1999 -0500, Gemini wrote:
>I just bought a 54 Ford for a project truck and on reinspection noticed that
>there is no inner door locks or a lock on the driver's door.

On a much earlier truck (1935), the door locks work by moving the handle in
the opposite direction of opening: there aren't the press-down/pull-up door
locks. And the outside door lock was only on the passenger side. One
explanation I read was that the driver would slide over on the bench seat
to get out the side further from the center of the road and having the key
lock on this side was more convenient.
Tom Teixeira '35 pickup http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://world.std.com/~tjt/35Pickup.html

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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 09 Nov 1999 06:26:36 -0500
From: "Thomas J. Teixeira"
Subject: Re: FTE Pre61 - overheating

At 11:41 PM 11/08/1999 -0500, DEADOAK aol.com wrote:
>Radiator was just rebuilt and works great without the thermostats. Maybe
>I'll try the washers.
>
You might also test the thermostats in a pan of hot water to make sure they
open.
Tom Teixeira '35 pickup http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://world.std.com/~tjt/35Pickup.html

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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 09 Nov 1999 09:24:09 -0500
From: 47Fred
Subject: Re: FTE Pre61 - overheating

"Thomas J. Teixeira" wrote:
>
> At 11:07 AM 11/08/1999 -0500, DEADOAK aol.com wrote:
> >The flathead V8 in my 52 Mercury want take thermostats. It overheats when I
> >try to install them. Does anyone have a solution for this problem. I've
> >been told there are "compression washers" are some such thing to use that
> >work in place of the thermostats but I don't know anything about them.
>
>. The "compression washers" are usually just called flow
> restrictors. They are just washers put into the radiator hoses, and you
> keep drilling the center hole a little larger until the temperature reaches
> the best temperature
>
> Lots of people swear they work, but the simple physical model says they
> shouldn't. The physical model says the more flow through the radiator, the
> lower the operating temperature.
> restrictions. The usual explanation, "the water doesn't stay in the
> radiator long enough to cool off without the flow restrictors" ignores the
> fact that it also doesn't stay in the engine long enough to heat up either.

This is a debate that started when Henry overheated the very first
flatmotor, the best argument I ever heard for the overheating problem is
that the pumps cavitate, at the normal flow capacity of the radiator
resulting in unstable and erratic water flow in the block. The radiator
exposure time also does come into play, for example most air conditioned
cars have fewer vanes or a smaller impeller in the pump to increase
dwell time. There is only a limited volume of space in the tubes for
heat transfer, but a large volume of water in the blocks, I've never
looked into it to much but it seems likely radiators are designed for
laminar flow, and blocks for turbulent, wich is neither here nor there,
you have what you have. I suspect that the real root of the above
thermostat problem is that there is no bypass thru the retrofit
thermostats to get a heat signal to the operating mechanism. Depending
on the design, a 1/8" hole thru the mounting flange may work to get a
flow going, or a small nick may need to the made in the seat. There is
no engineering reason why the t'stats can't be made to work but they do
need to see heat to open.

47Fred
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 09 Nov 1999 07:43:45 -0700
From: "Kitchen, Ken"
Subject: RE: FTE Pre61 - generator problems, '54 F-100

I think the first thing you should try is checking all of your grounds.
Since you stated that the problem started after you returned from the body
shop. I assume you had a new paint job. If that's the case and it was a
complete tear down your body may not be properly grounding.


> ----------
> From: Joe Michels[SMTP:joebob86 starpower.net]
> Reply To: pre61-list ford-trucks.com
> Sent: Tuesday, November 09, 1999 4:14 AM
> To: pre61-list ford-trucks.com
> Subject: Re: FTE Pre61 - generator problems, '54 F-100
>
> I think that you need to replace all of the cables-- no reason to have a
> rebuilt truck and then have 45 year old cables-- replace all of them, step
> 1.
>
> Check the output voltage from the generator-- you should get about 8 volts
> on a 6 volt system. If you are not getting that much, check the
> generator--
> brushes are probably bad-- maybe a generator rebuild-- step 2. In this
> step, you may wish to have it done at the shop downtown, they will charge
> about the same to do it as you are going to spend messing with it.
>
> If voltage is OK., ie, 8 volts out of generator, check the regulator--
> sounds like you possibly have either a generator or regulator problem. If
> you need a new one, NAPA has them, price is right.
>
> If all above checks OK, then you have a ground problem-- check all ,
> repeat
> all grounding connections as well.
>
> Have battery checked at the battery shop, under load. Battery may be run
> down-- you need to have all good components in the system initially--
> troubleshooting becomes easier.
>
> Sounds like you have a nice rig, replacing, checking all of these factors
> will insure that you have the proper electrical conditions for optiumum
> performance.
>
> Joebob
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Abram H. Stauffer
> To:
> Sent: Monday, November 08, 1999 11:59 PM
> Subject: FTE Pre61 - generator problems, '54 F-100
>
>
> > Since I got my truck back from the body shop I have had some minor
> > electrical problems. I got a new battery but it didn't seem to be
> > charging completely. I replaced both battery cables thinking since they
> > are 45 yrs. old maybe they are corroded and not able to carry a full
> > load to start the truck or to fully charge the battery. They were
> > brittle and corroded under the old rubber insulation. But I still had
> > the same problems. Tonight I replaced the cable going from the starter
> > solenoid to the starter. The condition of this cable was worse than the
> > old battery cables. However, I don't think I have solved the problem.
> > Should I replace the ground cable from the starter? or do I have a
> > generator problem? In '54 the F-100's were given an idiot light for
> > the gen. and oil press. instead of a gauge, so I can't see how much it
> > is charging. Maybe this will help: when the headlights are on the gen.
> > light glows slightly when idling. When I rev the engine the gen. light
> > gets brighter. Do I have a generator problem?
> > Thanks, At the end of this week I will have some time to take it
> > down to my mechanic friend at the local gargage.
> > Abe
> > PS: BTW, I will not change to a 12 volt system.
> > == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
>
> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
>
== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1999 09:47:00 EST
From: My59f100 aol.com
Subject: FTE Pre61 - Flathead water pump

In a message dated 11/9/99 5:53:52 AM Eastern Standard Time,
owner-pre61-list-digest ford-trucks.com writes:

>
Take a look on www.ebay.com do a search on Ford water pump you will find a
nos pump at a bid of $31.00 ( I missed what year your looking for though) No
core needed. Also you will see a rebuild kit for $14.99. Lots of good stuff
there. I just got a NOS glass bowl fuel pump for a bid of $5.00. Good luck
have fun. MY59F100
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1999 09:59:10 EST
From: HDMel95 aol.com
Subject: FTE Pre61 - Re: overheating

In a message dated 11/9/1999 3:59:53 AM, you wrote:



Radiator was just rebuilt and works great without the thermostats. Maybe
I'll try the washers.

Thanks
Charles>>

Before you chuck the idea of doing away with the thermostat, make sure the
thermostat is opening. Put it in a pan with water in it and start heating
the water up on your stove with a thermometer in the water. Watch the
thermostat to see at what temperature it opens. Should be 160 to 180
depending on which one you have and make sure that it is opening fully.
Could save you a lot of time if all you have is a faulty thermostat. The
other major problem I had when I was fooling around with flatheads, was ALL
of them had to be boiled out. Their water passages rust up fast!!!!
Mel
1953 f100
1934 Roadster
1934 5w
1970 El Camino
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1999 10:08:49 EST
From: DEADOAK aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE Pre61 - Re: overheating

Thanks for the help.

Charles
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1999 08:41:09 -0800
From: "O'Connell, Dennis M"
Subject: RE: FTE Pre61 - door locks?

Michelle,

Here are several sources for parts;

Sacramento Vintage Ford 888-482-3444 (Good service)
John's F FunHundreds 714-563-f100
Dennis Carpenter 704-786-8139
So Cal Pickups 1-800-socal-49

Hope this helps.

Dennis
55F100

> ----------
> From: Gemini[SMTP:gemini11 zoomnet.net]
> Reply To: pre61-list ford-trucks.com
> Sent: Monday, November 08, 1999 6:01 PM
> To: pre61-list-digest ford-trucks.com
> Subject: FTE Pre61 - door locks?
>
> I just bought a 54 Ford for a project truck and on reinspection noticed
> that
> there is no inner door locks or a lock on the driver's door. I will
> readily
> admit that this is my first early model truck project so....did the 54
> come
> with the pieces that I'm missing? If not, does anyone know why not? Oh,
> if
> anyone knows where I can find a chrome front bumper, please let me know
> where (old or new).
> Thanks,
> Michelle
>
> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
>
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1999 01:56:26 -0800 (PST)
From: Oldtrukman webtv.net (R. Pietsch)
Subject: FTE Pre61 - drip rail sealer

Hi all.
Well the rainy season seams to be on us again up here in the great
Pacific Northwest and I don't want to go through another winter with
soaked up carpets. I have a new windshield gasket to have installed, but
I think that the biggest culprit is probably the dried up and cracked
out drip rail (or rain gutter) sealer.

Question # 1; what is the best (easiest) way to remove the old
sealer, and #2 is what would be the best sealer to put back on.
The truck is a '56 F100 by the way.
Thanks in advance. All suggestions are appreciated.



Rix56 'The Rat'

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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1999 15:09:12 EST
From: ChargerGLHS142 aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE Pre61 - generator problems, '54 F-100

I have a generator question,

My truck was completely redone from
the guy i bought it from, but i had to have the radiator recored when i
bouhgt it. Ever since i did this my generator light comes on. I was told to
polarize the Generator by running a wire from the positive side of tha
battery to the positive side of the generator. DOes this work? I'm not about
to short wires out by doing this unless it works, and won't harm anything.

Brian Achey & Ann Bates

1987 SHelby Charger GLHS #142 "Rabid transit"
1996 Mustang GT convertible
1958 Ford F100 "Gus"
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 09 Nov 1999 14:38:04 -0600
From: Joe Lusk
Subject: FTE Pre61 - '56 temp sender/gauge

My '56 F-100 (with a '58 292) apparently has an incorrect temperature
sending unit. The one in it has a single threaded post. From the truck's
wiring and the shop manuals I have seen, it appears that the correct
sending unit should have two blade type terminals. I've had difficulty
locating one of these units. I have talked to a couple of vendors that
have advertised availability in their catalogs, but found that what they
have won't work with my gauge. Does someone have any info on the operation
of the temp gauge in the '56? It appears to operate "backwards". That is,
with power off, the gauge sits at the far right (hot side). When started,
the gauge swings to the left and acts "normal", creeping to the normal
range as the engine heats up. Is this the way it was made or has someone
dinked with something? I don't really see how someone could have done
anything to make it do this. It must have come this way from the factory,
right? I guess if it works, it works. Just seems odd.

One more info request, then a reply. A couple of months ago, transmissions
were discussed in Street Rodder Magazine's "Y Notta Y Block" series.
Sounded like the Y-block bellhousing pattern is the same as the FE engines
(or vice versa), so theoretically a trans from a later model FE-powered
vehicle would "bolt up", with perhaps only a clutch disk change (yeah, the
word "only" is dangerous). They referred to a couple of 4 speed manual
w/OD transmissions from the late '70s trucks or vans (but I would be fine
with a 3OD too...). Anybody tried anything like this? I don't haul much
more than myself to work or my 5-year-old daughter on a "date" and I'm
looking for some gas mileage improvement.

Also, for "Gemini"

>I just bought a 54 Ford for a project truck
>and on reinspection noticed that there is no
>inner door locks or a lock on the driver's door.

I believe there was some discussion on this a month or so ago. The doors
lock from the inside by pushing the handles forward. My '56 has only a
passenger door key lock. Even before the discussion, I had assumed it was
because in the days these trucks were made, the typical scenario was to run
into town for supplies, park at the curb and slide out on the passenger's
side. Watch Andy Griffith or something like that. Seems I remember Goober
having a '56 F-100.

Thanks for your help,

Joe
'56 F-100 w/'58 292, 3 speed
'59 Studebaker Lark VI
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1999 13:16:37 -0000
From: "Tim Mortimore"
Subject: Re: FTE Pre61 - drip rail sealer

after having spent hours with a 'specially ground' carpet knife cutting and
scraping every iota of that damn caulk off my 58 panel (of course there was
more linear feet on a panel than a p/u) prior to sandblasting; i sure hope
there isn't any 'easy way'...

or if there is, i sure wish the heck i would have asked the mighty brain
trust......

the big pieces come out easy, it's the last bit that's in that gap between
the roof and the rail that is a pain in the butt. but, you know, there
*was* rust in there (and now there isn't) so it was worth it. grinding the
carpet knife so that it cut in one direction and scraped on the return
stroke helped a lot, but it still took hours.

tim mortimore
58 panel / 70 ltd combo


- ----- Original Message -----
From: R. Pietsch
To:
Sent: Tuesday, November 09, 1999 9:56 AM
Subject: FTE Pre61 - drip rail sealer


> Hi all.
> Well the rainy season seams to be on us again up here in the great
> Pacific Northwest and I don't want to go through another winter with
> soaked up carpets. I have a new windshield gasket to have installed, but
> I think that the biggest culprit is probably the dried up and cracked
....

---

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