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Subject: pre61-list-digest V3 #198
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pre61-list-digest Wednesday, July 14 1999 Volume 03 : Number 198



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Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1948 - 1948 truck and vans
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In this issue:

FTE Pre61 - 1950 F-1 restoration attempt - fender bolt removal
Re: FTE Pre61 - Gauges
Re: FTE Pre61 - EFI troubles
FTE Pre61 - Starter switch wiring confusion
FTE Pre61 - Re: side emblems
FTE Pre61 - wiring
FTE Pre61 - EFI troubles
Re: FTE Pre61 - 1950 F-1 restoration attempt - fender bolt removal
FTE Pre61 - starter relay cable II
FTE Pre61 - Looking for Sam Fugate
FTE Pre61 - shifter
FTE Pre61 - Freeing Rusted Bolts/Nuts
Re: FTE Pre61 - 1950 F-1 restoration attempt - fender bolt removal
Re: FTE Pre61 - wiring

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Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 08:05:19 -0400
From: "Sheldon Rier"
Subject: FTE Pre61 - 1950 F-1 restoration attempt - fender bolt removal

I've taken a bunch of fenders off & have found if the bolts are very rusty
it is better to tighten them til they twist off - you can center punch the
heads & drill a little ways into them & they twist off very easy

Sheldon

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Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 08:37:49 -0400
From: 47Fred
Subject: Re: FTE Pre61 - Gauges

> Maybe some of you gauge experts can help me with the following
> problem. I've got a 52 F1 and am presently rewiring to 12v neg ground.
> I've fed power to the gauges with a 7.8 volt neg ground regulator. I can
> get my gauges to work but they only work backwards (ie: tank is empty,
> gauge reads full; temp is cold, gauge reads hot).

The gauges in these old trucks are nothing more than a bit of wire
wrapped around a bimetallic strip, as current flows thru the wire, the
strip heats up, and bends, moving the needle with a rack and pinion.
Usually Temp and Fuel/Oil are mirror images, so to speak, as temp goes
to Hot and fuel/oil to low with the power off. Wiring should be a "hot"
6+ volts to one side of each gauge, all 3 in parallel, not in series,
and one lead to each sending unit. Remove the "sender" wire from each
gauge, power them up and check the action, which should be temp to hot,
fuel/oil to low. with a jumper wire to ground carefully touch each
sender post on the gauge, which should move to full, cold or low,
depending. If they work OK with this test, something is wacky in your
sending wires, if still weird, a truly strange gauge problem, for which
many hours and perhaps several cold brews will be required to properly
diagnose.

47Fred
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Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 08:54:03 -0400
From: 47Fred
Subject: Re: FTE Pre61 - EFI troubles

RJC988 aol.com wrote:
I cannot find the MAP sensor on the wiring harness. I thought it
> would be on the EFI setup, but Helm's says it is oon the firewall. I can't
> even find where it would plug in. Can I run this without the MAP sensor? Is
> it something that is on the harness that I haven't found yet?
>
If memory serves me, you're using a '90 Lincoln EFI computer and
harness, those are mass air engines and use a hot wire meter to measure
the air flow, not a pressure sensor to calculate it. You can verify mass
air by looking for a fine screen and sensor in the intake just in front
of the throttle plate. If the '90 uses a conventional sensor at all,
which I doubt, it would probably have a harness plug at the the rear of
the intake manifold, just to the right of the vacuum connection for the
fuel pressure regulator.
I will still swap a single plane 4 bbl intake, and '82 electronic
distributor with vacuum advance and a ignition module for your air meter
and computer, it's not to late to go 19th century.
47Fred
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Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 11:43:26 -0400
From: "Miguel....."
Subject: FTE Pre61 - Starter switch wiring confusion

Thanks all of you for your answers to the starter relay wire. The reason I
sent the message is that my 51 (which is all apart) had, like one of you
said, a cable from the instrument circuit breaker (negative) to the push
button, but the push botton is one of those that grounds to the dash, and
then there was the cable that goes to the starter relay, so I had to cables
but my push button is only for one. I still donīt understand.
The ford manual really does not talk about this.
Anyway, I will try both ways to see what works.


Miguel Londono
f-1 951
- -----Mensaje original-----
De: Dan Wentz
Para: pre61-list ford-trucks.com
Fecha: lunes 12 de julio de 1999 23:13
Asunto: Re: FTE Pre61 - Starter switch wiring


>> Some time ago a list member posted mail noting the danger of the
>>stock starter button - the fact that it can be used anytime, regardless
of
>>ignition key position, so your neighbor's kid can come over and push the
>>switch while you're under the front end with jackstands, but rear wheels
on
>>the ground ...
>
>Here's a fun one: You're under the truck taking out the steering box. The
>front of the truck is up on jack stands. As you pull out the box the
>steering column hits the (original flaking cloth insulated) starter button
>wire and grounds it to the dash. The truck starts to lurch forward while
>you lay there holding the steering box above your face. You're then faced
>with the task of getting out from under the truck without causing it to
>move further (you realize the importance of this when you see that the jack
>stands are now at a 30 degree slant. And just to annoy yourself all you
>can think of is that old episode of Emergency where the guy dropped the
>engine on himself.
>
>What have we learned from this story? Block your rear wheels--disconnect
>your battery--original wiring is evil--I watch too much tv.
>
>~Dan (lucky to be alive)
>
>1950 F1 351C--The seat screams 'cover me' and your butt screams 'ouch!'
>1992 Mustang --Nothing noteworthy to report.
>1965 Mustang--Coming Soon???
>
>Visit my new improved 48-52 F1 Site: http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://home.earthlink.net/~dwentz
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>

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Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 12:37:51 EDT
From: Fyrftrmike aol.com
Subject: FTE Pre61 - Re: side emblems

hello i'am haveing the same problem finding the 59 f-250 marker for the side
the best place for all the old parts is so cal parts there really helpful .
check out the auto swaps they have a lot of the f-100 parts for sale.


mike
fyrftrmike aol.com
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Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 09:49:19 -0700 (PDT)
From: shane san miguel
Subject: FTE Pre61 - wiring

>front of the truck is up on jack stands. As you pull
>out the box the
>steering column hits the (original flaking cloth
>insulated) starterbutton
>wire and grounds it to the dash. The truck starts to
>lurch forwardwhile

I used to laugh at my autoshop teacher (behind his
back of course) when he would go on a tirade around
the shop about safety. Until my girlfriend (ex) ran
over me with her Volks***** in a similar accident.
And just recently, I was doing some soldering at work
and had a bunch of solder flash fly up in my face.
Right straight into my *safety glasses*. That
afternoon I went to the tool store and purchased a
pair of safety glasses to wear at home and I do wear
them. Auto shop wasn't so bad, if you're in the shop,
you wear your glasses. Not a bad rule to live by.
_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?

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Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 12:46:13 -0500
From: Winford_Rister oxy.com
Subject: FTE Pre61 - EFI troubles

On the subject of the MAP sensor:

I have several Fords with EFI.

If your system is MASS-AIR, the MAP sensor is not very critical. The vacuum
port is plugged, or open to the atmosphere. This measurement is used only
at engine startup, to set the parameters for the current barometric
pressure. Unless you go up and down the mountain frequently, this doesn' t
change much.

BUT....

If your system is Air-Density (or whatever you call it when you have a flow
meter), the MAP sensor is more critical, as it constantly monitors the
engine vacuum and adjusts the fuel system accordingly.

The plug for the sensor is a 3-connector with a short lead, about 6 inches,
and usually mounts on the firewall just off-center.

Winford
Winfordr aol.com


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Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 14:30:48 -0400
From: "Bill Hale"
Subject: Re: FTE Pre61 - 1950 F-1 restoration attempt - fender bolt removal

Thanks to all for the helpful replies, I have put some to use and am
s-l-o-w-l-y getting the job done. I'll probably be back with some more ?'s
soon.
Since I'm starting from scratch, I've decided to keep a simple log of the
progress as I go for two reasons:
1. Too finish the job (look back from time to time and see how much has been
done so as not to get discouraged)
2. Maybe, just maybe, I'll know something when I'm done so I can help the
next novice restorer.
- ------gee, hope the paper doesn't deteriorate before I'm done

P.S. Hey Dan W.? Yes, this is the person who went(450 miles) to Vermont 2
years ago to get his dream 50 F-1. Remember?
Later,
Bill
mailto:wlhale csrlink.net

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Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 16:57:56 -0400
From: "Miguel....."
Subject: FTE Pre61 - starter relay cable II

I went to the garage and tried both ways. And grounding (+) the cable that
goes from the starter push button to the relay makes it work. So the button
I have works fine. But I still donīt know why it had this button and also
had the cable from the instruments which is negative. I guess the prior
owner changed the relay sometime and left that cable there.

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Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 18:39:33 -0400
From: "Mcat"
Subject: FTE Pre61 - Looking for Sam Fugate

Sorry to post this to the list, but my e-mail to Sam Fugate bounces back to
me. Sam, please send me a valid e-mail address.
Thanks,
Garry
mcat cecomet.net

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Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 20:25:14 -0500 (CDT)
From: (John Hoke)
Subject: FTE Pre61 - shifter

Could someone describe to me what the top part of the column shifter
directly under the steering wheel should look like? You would have to
remove the steering wheel to see the top of the shifter or peer through the
little crack just below the steering wheel. It's my understanding that the
column should be spring loaded so that the shifter wants to engage second
and third and to get to first and reverse you have to pull up on the
shifter. It seems to me that the very top of the column would have to be
ridgedly mounted under the steering wheel for this to happen. Mines not
and before I weld it fast I thought I'd better see what its supposed to
look like. Can anyone help? Thanks

John
53 F-250

John Hoke
University of Illinois
1206 W Green St
Urbana, IL 61801
hoke students.cso.uiuc.edu
(217) 333-2328


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Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 23:06:59 EDT
From: WinfordR aol.com
Subject: FTE Pre61 - Freeing Rusted Bolts/Nuts

I have had good success with a Dremel type moto-tool with the
fiber-reinforced cut-off wheels. Sometimes I cut the bolt, sometimes I split
the nut on two sides etc.

Also a nutcracker is a good tool where there is room to use it.

I have also resorted to the heat-with-a-torch-and-soak-with-Liquid Wrench,
over and over method also. This works better if left to soak overnight. I
have even drilled a small hole in the nut in order to get penetrating oil
next to the bolt.

Winford
Winfordr aol.com

54 F100 in progress 5.0 EFI, C4 MII.
92 F150
91 Explorer 4x4
96 Mustang GT
Also in the family:
65 Mustang 289 4 spd
86 Mustang GT
95 F150 4x4
99 F350 Super Duty Crew Cab Dually
(passed on to the auto graveyard) 92 Mustang GT.
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Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 21:56:51 -0700
From: "Ray Cardogno"
Subject: Re: FTE Pre61 - 1950 F-1 restoration attempt - fender bolt removal

Then what? I assume you drill and easy-out?

Just curious, always eager to learn new tricks.
Ray C
- --

On Tue, 13 Jul 1999 08:05:19 Sheldon Rier wrote:
>I've taken a bunch of fenders off & have found if the bolts are very rusty
>it is better to tighten them til they twist off - you can center punch the
>heads & drill a little ways into them & they twist off very easy
>
>Sheldon
>
>== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
>


Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.angelfire.com
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Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 22:12:34 -0700
From: "Ray Cardogno"
Subject: Re: FTE Pre61 - wiring

Another Note on safety. I have been installing a kill switch direct from the battery. Probably the best insurance you can get. 2 of my trucks already have them. I'd hate to find my old truck (and maybe the building it's near) burnt up to a crisp because of bad insulation or a very bad mouse. Eeek!


On Tue, 13 Jul 1999 09:49:19 shane san miguel wrote:
>>front of the truck is up on jack stands. As you pull
>>out the box the
>>steering column hits the (original flaking cloth
>>insulated) starterbutton
>>wire and grounds it to the dash. The truck starts to
>>lurch forwardwhile
>
>I used to laugh at my autoshop teacher (behind his
>back of course) when he would go on a tirade around
>the shop about safety. Until my girlfriend (ex) ran
>over me with her Volks***** in a similar accident.
>And just recently, I was doing some soldering at work
>and had a bunch of solder flash fly up in my face.
>Right straight into my *safety glasses*. That
>afternoon I went to the tool store and purchased a
>pair of safety glasses to wear at home and I do wear
>them. Auto shop wasn't so bad, if you're in the shop,
>you wear your glasses. Not a bad rule to live by.
>_________________________________________________________....


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