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Subject: pre61-list-digest V3 #197
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pre61-list-digest Tuesday, July 13 1999 Volume 03 : Number 197



=======================================================================
Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1948 - 1948 truck and vans
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In this issue:

FTE Pre61 - All Those Colors!!!
FTE Pre61 - Side Hood Emblems
FTE Pre61 - 1950 F-1 restoration attempt
RE: FTE Pre61 - 1950 F-1 restoration attempt
Re: FTE Pre61 - 1950 F-1 restoration attempt
FTE Pre61 - re: starter relay wiring
FTE Pre61 - EFI troubles
Re: FTE Pre61 - EFI troubles
FTE Pre61 - Gauges
Re: FTE Pre61 - 1950 F-1 restoration attempt
Re: FTE Pre61 - Gauges
Re: FTE Pre61 - What a Bargain
Re: FTE Pre61 - Starter switch wiring
FTE Pre61 - Emblem Removal
Subject: FTE Pre61 - Hub caps--- please help!!!
Subject: FTE Pre61 - Locking brake

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Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 07:07:47 -0400
From: The Neighbors
Subject: FTE Pre61 - All Those Colors!!!

Tom wrote: "I thought the early Y blocks were yellow, and most restored
Thunderbirds I've seen had red engines. I don't think Ford settled on
'corporate blue' for engine blocks until the mid 60's."

Boy, Tom, you are RIGHT about the rainbow of colors Ford used! I have a
yellow '54 239 Y-block, a "Thunderbird Red" '55 256, what is left of the
original 390 in my '63 Merc was "Mercury Gold", and the rest of the
engine, an early '70s block, is "Corporate Blue," and my '65 Comet, has
an old factory rebuilt 200 with a black block and a yellow valve cover.
I refuse to stand by my names for the above colors, though, since I
just plain don't know what Ford actually called all those colors! :-)


- --
Don Neighbors
'54 F250 Named Grover

"Any dropped tool or part will automatically fall into the most
inaccessible part of the vehicle."

grover ford-trucks.com
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Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 09:13:15 -0500
From: "Brian C Nyman"
Subject: FTE Pre61 - Side Hood Emblems

Why is it so hard for specialty shops to have 57-58 side hood emblems (58 in
particular) ? I have looked through "Sacramento Vintage", "AutoKrafters," "Dan
Carpenter," and "Bob's F-Fun-Hundreds" catalogs'. None of them carry these hood
emblems, and I think only ONE had the 57-58 (front) hood shield emblem. I have
a right and a left (side hood emblems), they're a little flaked and/or pitted,
and missing the F100 emblem, so I was interested in replacing them. They're
also made of an unusual "alloy" that looks like aluminum, but they're heavier
than you'd expect an aluminum emblem would be. This makes me wary of stripping
them, either chemically or mechanically, and then replating them.

Can anyone help me out ? I haven't contacted the sales/order departments'
directly, but I've been handed the 'if it's not in the catalog, we don't have
it' response before.

Brian Nyman
bnyman allina.com
612-775-1537

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Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 11:04:13 -0400
From: "Bill Hale"
Subject: FTE Pre61 - 1950 F-1 restoration attempt

Hi all,
Some background:
I'm finally beginning resto of my 50 F-1 to as close to original as I can.
This is my first resto attempt so I'm gonna need some help. I've researched
all I can find about the truck, took a 1 hr video of the truck in its
current state(as much as I could see to this point, and about 72 photos of
the same. I have all the manuals(motor's, chilton's, shop manual etc) and
other hand-written docs. I would definately consider myself a novice!!
First dilemma:
1. Removing the fenders and front clip.
I soaked the carriage bolts(nuts) with PB blaster several times. When
attempting to remove the nuts with very little force the carriage bolts turn
inside the sheet metal thus stripping the square hole. I've only attempted 3
bolts so all is not ruined. Should I cut the nuts with a torch or is there
some other secret? Any and all suggestions with the sheet metal removal
would be helpful. I would like to save as much sheet metal as possible but I
realize that some will have to be replaced.
Thanks for your patience and hopefully some of you experienced people will
take pity and help me out. I'm gonna need it!
wlhale csrlink.net

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Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 11:56:51 -0400
From: "Miguel....."
Subject: RE: FTE Pre61 - 1950 F-1 restoration attempt

My advise and experience with my 51 is to:

Use a torch to heat the nuts that hold the part and then turn the nut loose
before letting it cool. Aplying heat to the nut will expand it making it
easier to turn without damaging the square hole. Also use penetrating oil to
help...

or

Another way (which I had to use in about 130 bolts in the pick up bed and
other parts) is to use screw extractors or "easy outs", you just drill a
small hole, depending on the extractor size, about 1/4 deep, on the bolt
head. Then you put the extractor in the bolt head and turn it
COUnterclockwise, then you hold the extractor tight and turn the nut on the
other side. I have found it better to turn the nut and not the extractor.
This little tool is great to remove the bed wood, rear fenders, etc. If you
donīt want to damage the parts, I would use heat and "easy outs" at the same
time.

A good brand of screw extractors is "Sunico", they sell at about $4.
The high-grade steel, heat treated ones are the best, the others just brake
and make it worse.
using a torch to cut bolts is not so recomended without experience.

Hope to help

Miguel Londono.

- -----Mensaje original-----
De: Bill Hale
Para: pre61-list ford-trucks.com
Fecha: lunes 12 de julio de 1999 11:15
Asunto: FTE Pre61 - 1950 F-1 restoration attempt


>Hi all,
>Some background:
>I'm finally beginning resto of my 50 F-1 to as close to original as I can.
>This is my first resto attempt so I'm gonna need some help. I've researched
>all I can find about the truck, took a 1 hr video of the truck in its
>current state(as much as I could see to this point, and about 72 photos of
>the same. I have all the manuals(motor's, chilton's, shop manual etc) and
>other hand-written docs. I would definately consider myself a novice!!
>First dilemma:
>1. Removing the fenders and front clip.
>I soaked the carriage bolts(nuts) with PB blaster several times. When
>attempting to remove the nuts with very little force the carriage bolts
turn
>inside the sheet metal thus stripping the square hole. I've only attempted
3
>bolts so all is not ruined. Should I cut the nuts with a torch or is there
>some other secret? Any and all suggestions with the sheet metal removal
>would be helpful. I would like to save as much sheet metal as possible but
I
>realize that some will have to be replaced.
>Thanks for your patience and hopefully some of you experienced people will
>take pity and help me out. I'm gonna need it!
>wlhale csrlink.net
>
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>

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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 12:01:58 -0400
From: 47Fred
Subject: Re: FTE Pre61 - 1950 F-1 restoration attempt

Bill Hale wrote:

> attempting to remove the nuts with very little force the carriage bolts turn
> inside the sheet metal thus stripping the square hole. I've only attempted 3
> bolts so all is not ruined. Should I cut the nuts with a torch or is there
> some other secret?

Avoid use of a cutting torch near sheet metal at all costs, it is
nearly impossible to avoid melting the base metal or warping something.
Try several alternatives first. With a small tip, heat the nut cherry
red and try removing it. Failing that, you can grind the heads off if
they can be reached. (A good tool to get, if you haven't, is one of
those 4" high speed grinders, with a twisted wire brush, it rips off
grime and rust, and a grinding disk also discourages frozen and rusted
bolts.) It is also possible to weld a nut to the head of a bolt to allow
it to be held with a vise grip while the nut is wrenched off. I have
also used with fair success, a die grinder equipped with a .035" thick
cut off wheel, but this often damages the metal if not held correctly
which is hard to do under a fender.

47Fred
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Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 10:35:30 -0700
From: "David Timmons"
Subject: FTE Pre61 - re: starter relay wiring

There are 2 kinds of starter relays for the early 50's Ford trucks. The original starter relay on my '52 was set up so that the starter button on the dash grounded the small terminal on the relay. I got a replacement relay and it is just the opposite - the starter button needs a hot wire from the wiring harness and when you push the starter button it sends 6v negative to the small terminal on the relay. I think this kind is safer because the ignition has to be on to operate the starter if the wire goes through the ignition switch. If you are not sure which one you have try connecting it to a battery - hook the negative to the large terminal on the right side (the one the wiring harness hooks on) and touch positive to the small terminal. If it clicks it needs to have the starter button connected to ground. If not, it needs a hot (negative) connection on the starter button. This only applies to 6v positive ground systems.


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Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 15:03:14 EDT
From: RJC988 aol.com
Subject: FTE Pre61 - EFI troubles

Truckers,

I hope someone can help me. I have started installing the wiring and computer
into Soapy. I cannot find the MAP sensor on the wiring harness. I thought it
would be on the EFI setup, but Helm's says it is oon the firewall. I can't
even find where it would plug in. Can I run this without the MAP sensor? Is
it something that is on the harness that I haven't found yet?

Is there anyone out there who has done this?

Glenn in TN
Soapy the 57 F-100
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Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 19:42:38 -0400
From: "Thomas J. Teixeira"
Subject: Re: FTE Pre61 - EFI troubles

At 03:03 PM 7/12/1999 -0400, RJC988 aol.com wrote:
>Truckers,
>
>I hope someone can help me. I have started installing the wiring and computer
>into Soapy. I cannot find the MAP sensor on the wiring harness. I thought it
>would be on the EFI setup, but Helm's says it is oon the firewall. I can't
>even find where it would plug in. Can I run this without the MAP sensor? Is
>it something that is on the harness that I haven't found yet?

It may run, but poorly. I don't know all the details of your particular
EFI, but guessing that MAP is Manifold Absolute Pressure, this sensor is
probably used to sense 'engine vacuum' and control the timing advance and
running without it would be like running with your distributor vacuum
advance port open. I suppose the sensor could mount to the firewall but
connect to the engine with a rubber tube.

Tom Teixeira mailto:tjt world.std.com
94 Taurus SHO 5-speed NESHOC/SHO Registry
'66 Mustang convertible (200 cid auto) http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://world.std.com/~tjt
'35 Ford Pickup (flathead V8)


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Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 18:44:20 -0600
From: Randall Colgan
Subject: FTE Pre61 - Gauges

Maybe some of you gauge experts can help me with the following
problem. I've got a 52 F1 and am presently rewiring to 12v neg ground.
I've fed power to the gauges with a 7.8 volt neg ground regulator. I can
get my gauges to work but they only work backwards (ie: tank is empty,
gauge reads full; temp is cold, gauge reads hot). I know it had the
original 6v pos gnd. How do I get the gauges to read properly? Do I take
the gauges apart and modify them somehow? I've already tried to reverse the
wires on the back of the gauges with no success to solving the problem.
I've also tried to feed power to the gauges with 6v pos ground with no
success either. One suggestion was to leave as is and rename E for Enough.
Maybe I should rename F for fill me up too! Got any ideas??

Thanks in advance for any help.

Randall Colgan
St. Albert, Alberta, Canada
1952 Ford F-1 pickup
http://www.ford-trucks.com/trueblue/
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Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 17:50:32 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dennis Moody
Subject: Re: FTE Pre61 - 1950 F-1 restoration attempt

My experience with PB blaster is that it does not work
very good.

A friend of mine ordered "mouse oil" off of the
internet. This seems to be the only penetrating oil
that really works good for me.

I don't know were it came from but it would probably
show up in an internet search.

Dennis

> I soaked the carriage bolts(nuts) with PB blaster
> several times. When
> attempting to remove the nuts with very little force
> the carriage bolts turn
> inside the sheet metal thus stripping the square
> hole.
===
Zeener96 yahoo.com
_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?

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Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 21:58:41 EDT
From: JRFiero aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE Pre61 - Gauges

In a message dated 7/12/1999 8:51:53 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
rcolgan home.com writes:

> Maybe some of you gauge experts can help me with the following
> problem. I've got a 52 F1 and am presently rewiring to 12v neg ground.
> I've fed power to the gauges with a 7.8 volt neg ground regulator. I can
> get my gauges to work but they only work backwards (ie: tank is empty,
> gauge reads full; temp is cold, gauge reads hot). I know it had the
> original 6v pos gnd. How do I get the gauges to read properly? Do I take
> the gauges apart and modify them somehow? I've already tried to reverse
the
> wires on the back of the gauges with no success to solving the problem.
I suggest you check http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.sonic.net/~sdelanty/6to12to6/ re
voltage reduction. The only gauge which should be sensitive to ground
polarity is the ammeter, easily changed. The rest of your problem sounds
really weird.
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Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 19:58:25 -0700
From: "Ray Cardogno"
Subject: Re: FTE Pre61 - What a Bargain

>What do you think, should I send in a picture of the C-750 for the pictorial ?
>"56Merc"

Hey Merc,
Do it! My Big Oafs need the company :)

Ray C (53-56)

Oaf List:
48 F-6
49 F-5
53 F-100 Panel
54 C-600
54 F-750
56 F-100 Milk Truck
61 C-850

Why do my neighbors think I'm wierd?



Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.angelfire.com
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Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 20:00:19 -0700
From: Dan Wentz
Subject: Re: FTE Pre61 - Starter switch wiring

> Some time ago a list member posted mail noting the danger of the
>stock starter button - the fact that it can be used anytime, regardless of
>ignition key position, so your neighbor's kid can come over and push the
>switch while you're under the front end with jackstands, but rear wheels on
>the ground ...

Here's a fun one: You're under the truck taking out the steering box. The
front of the truck is up on jack stands. As you pull out the box the
steering column hits the (original flaking cloth insulated) starter button
wire and grounds it to the dash. The truck starts to lurch forward while
you lay there holding the steering box above your face. You're then faced
with the task of getting out from under the truck without causing it to
move further (you realize the importance of this when you see that the jack
stands are now at a 30 degree slant. And just to annoy yourself all you
can think of is that old episode of Emergency where the guy dropped the
engine on himself.

What have we learned from this story? Block your rear wheels--disconnect
your battery--original wiring is evil--I watch too much tv.

~Dan (lucky to be alive)

1950 F1 351C--The seat screams 'cover me' and your butt screams 'ouch!'
1992 Mustang --Nothing noteworthy to report.
1965 Mustang--Coming Soon???

Visit my new improved 48-52 F1 Site: http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://home.earthlink.net/~dwentz
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Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 20:08:51 -0700
From: Dan Wentz
Subject: FTE Pre61 - Emblem Removal

Somebody wrote a couple weeks ago about how to remove the emblems off the
hood of a 56 and I had wondered the same thing about the F1 badges on my
50. I finally figured it out last Saturday. There is something there that
looks like a circular clip of some kind. It looks like it's holding the
thing on and the natural inclination is to try to remove it. What it
actually does is keep the emblem from falling out of the hole. To remove
the emblem just give the end of the peg (for lack of a better word) a
little tap then you should be able to pull the emblem off. It's about 100
times simpler than it looks.

~Dan

1950 F1 351C--The seat screams 'cover me' and your butt screams 'ouch!'
1992 Mustang --Nothing noteworthy to report.
1965 Mustang--Coming Soon???

Visit my new improved 48-52 F1 Site: http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://home.earthlink.net/~dwentz
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Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 23:35:06 EDT
From: AMorgan351 aol.com
Subject: Subject: FTE Pre61 - Hub caps--- please help!!!

Mike:
A long shot but you could try Hub Cap City in San Jose CA 408 280 6833
Nice folks and lots of old hubcaps - you might want to fax them an image so
they could poke around.
AL
no-name '57
n a message dated 6/29/99 1:36:30 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
owner-pre61-list-digest ford-trucks.com writes:

> Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 23:41:01 EDT
> From: BeanUh1 aol.com
> Subject: FTE Pre61 - Hub caps--- please help!!!
>
> I have almost completely restored my 52 F-2... I need help finding hub
caps.
>
> I have tried calling every available number in catologues and as my job
> takes
> me around the country I have contacted just about every salvage yard and
> hubcap place I can find--- but no luck. There has to be someone out there
> who can help. I can find the caps for F-1s but obviously the F-2s are
more
> rare. Hopefully you'll email me back with some leads. Mike Bina,
> Indianapolis
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Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 23:41:11 EDT
From: AMorgan351 aol.com
Subject: Subject: FTE Pre61 - Locking brake

Ken:
I ran into a similar problem with uneven braking on my 57 - it was defective
master cylinder. My neighbor and mechanical expert took quite a while to
figure it out - there's a little valve inside that didn't work right and the
brakes were really squirelly - and the cylinder was under warranty so no
worries.
AL
no-name 57
In a message dated 7/2/99 1:43:29 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
owner-pre61-list-digest ford-trucks.com writes:

> Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 07:03:37 -0700
> From: Ken Toop
> Subject: FTE Pre61 - Locking brake
>
> Here's the stumper for today: I installed a new master cylinder and new
> wheel cylinders all around on the stock brake system of my '57 F-100. Now
> the right front wheel locks up when I apply the brakes. I've bled and
> adjusted the brakes a couple of times, and pulled the hub off several times
> as well, to try to figure out what's going on, but without success. I
> suspected a bad wheel cylinder, but a replacement made no improvement,
> still the same wheel locks. I don't think there is any blockage in the
> hydraulic lines as the fluid passed easily when I bled the system. I have
> cleaned the drums and brake shoes of any grease contamination. I thought
> that I had maybe reversed primary and secondary shoes, and, yet, when I
> turned them around the problem was worse. Backing up the brake does not
> lock, only going forward. Anyone have an idea how to trouble shoot this
> one? I sure hate to have to out-shop this one, but I guess I'll have to if
> no one has an idea. Thanks to the replies to my question on removing the
> horn button.
>
> Also, when are the classic truck magazines going to wake up to '57-'60
> F-100's? I'm about ready to cancel some subscriptions. Judging from the....


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