pre61-list-digest Saturday, January 23 1999 Volume 03 : Number 021



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Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1948 - 1948 truck and vans
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In this issue:

FTE Pre61 - 9 inch rears
Re: FTE Pre61 - rear ends (specially 9") reference posts
FTE Pre61 - Re Y block and tranny information:
FTE Pre61 - Transmissions
FTE Pre61 - positive ground vs. negative ground
FTE Pre61 - Gas Gauge Query
RE: FTE Pre61 - Re Y block and tranny information:
FTE Pre61 - Oil Gallery Plugs
FTE Pre61 - 9 inch rears
Re: FTE Pre61 - Gas Gauge Query
Re: FTE Pre61 - Oil Gallery Plugs
Re: FTE Pre61 - 9 inch rears

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Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 06:52:46 PST
From: "John Harrison"
Subject: FTE Pre61 - 9 inch rears

David,
57 thru 66 trucks, early Broncos, intermediate pass cars, and a few
early full size (57 thru 62 ) should fit width wise. Usually spring
perches must be relocated to get proper spring alignment & pinion angle
( u joints must have opposite but equal angles front & rear ) Trucks
have 5 1/2" bolt pattern, cars 4 1/2", so consider what you've got up
front. Some full size cars use a 5" bolt pattern, but most of these will
be too wide for your truck. Best thing to do is measure yours & bring
tape measure with you when you shop.

John Harrison

______________________________________________________
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Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 09:57:11 EST
From: JRFiero aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE Pre61 - rear ends (specially 9") reference posts

In a message dated 1/23/1999 1:34:07 AM Eastern Standard Time,
dstokes linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us writes:

> Can anybody out there provide a
> list of models and years that had 9 inch rear ends that will bolt right
> up.
I've saved numerous posts from this and the 61-79 lists on 9" rears. I'll
copy some below, (I have more!) and try to attribute the original poster.
This makes a long email, and some seems contradictory, but if you get through
it all you'll have your answers.

>From the late Lee Hardy
"...but if you use a 72 and down rear (the ratio will be on axel tag) about a
3:25, you will have a bolt in setup for 42-56. After 72, the spring pads were
set 3 1/2 " wider as was the rear. Unless you are going to beat the snot out
of your truck, you don't really care if you have big spline count. Get your
rear from a pickup or station wagon."

>From Tkaczyk -
"Ford made these axles from 1957 thru 86, then sold the molds for
making the 9" housings, so they're still being produced, as are all the
aftermarket parts that go in the hoousings. Swap meets also are a good
source, if you know what you're looking for. I ended up with a 9" rear
from a 72 F100 (has 3.25 gears, which I'm changing to 3.00).

If you decide to go with the Ford 9 inch, measure the distance between
your rear spring perches, and the distance between wheel faces. My Ford
truck parts manual shows Ford half tom trucks from 1948 thru 56 having
the same rear axle width. For my 55 F100, the rear axle from a 57 thru
72 half ton pickup fits perfectly: 61 1/4" between wheel bolt faces and
40 1/4" between spring perch centers. If your 2 measurements are the
same as mine, the 57-72 F100 axle will fit your half-ton too."

Also from Tkaczyk -
"Speaking Ford only, both the 8" and 9" have center sections that drop
out from the front of the axle. A quick way to tell that you have the 9"
is that the bottom 2 nuts which hold the center section to the axle will
not be accessible with a socket, only accessible with a box or open end
wrench."

>From wild.bunch
"Since you are looking for a 1/2 ton axle, I don't think you can do better
than the Ford 9", which will interchange directly between 57 - 60 and almost
directly from 61 into 70s
models. The trouble with 61 and up 9" Ford axles is that they mount the rear
shock absorbers to the axle directly, rather than to the spring seat cap, as
was done in 57 - 60. I think even the spring perches are in the same
location from 57 up to the 70s. What you will need is the correct spring
seat cap that will mount your shocks, # B9D 5996-A. Some later years are
listed with these, but your best bet is to get them from a 57 - 60 which has
to have them. You will also need U-Bolts, #B7C 5705-A. These parts will
probably be different with the Dana 60 axle because of its greater axle tube
size. finally, you will need to get your driveshaft lengthened, because the
9" Ford is "shorter" than the Dana 60. All of the rear ends, 57 to the 70s
should be the same length drum to drum. Even the earlier 56 and before rear
ends are the same, but require different hardware due to smaller axle tubes.
I'd think that a 57 - 60 donor would be your simplest bet, because you could
also get the driveshaft, besides the u-bolts and spring seat caps. The lug
bolt pattern will swap with your front end, too.Since you are looking for
a 1/2 ton axle, I don't think you can do better than the Ford 9", which will
interchange directly between 57 - 60 and almost directly from 61 into 70s
models. The trouble with 61 and up 9" Ford axles is that they mount the rear
shock absorbers to the axle directly, rather than to the spring seat cap, as
was done in 57 - 60. I think even the spring perches are in the same
location from 57 up to the 70s. What you will need is the correct spring
seat cap that will mount your shocks, # B9D 5996-A. Some later years are
listed with these, but your best bet is to get them from a 57 - 60 which has
to have them. You will also need U-Bolts, #B7C 5705-A. These parts will
probably be different with the Dana 60 axle because of its greater axle tube
size. finally, you will need to get your driveshaft lengthened, because the
9" Ford is "shorter" than the Dana 60. All of the rear ends, 57 to the 70s
should be the same length drum to drum. Even the earlier 56 and before rear
ends are the same, but require different hardware due to smaller axle tubes.
I'd think that a 57 - 60 donor would be your simplest bet, because you could
also get the driveshaft, besides the u-bolts and spring seat caps. The lug
bolt pattern will swap with your front end, too."

Also from wild.bunch
"According to my Hollander Manual, your F1 came with a Dana 44 that is
similar to the 53-56 and 59 - up locking Dana 44s, except for the spring
perches. Hollander says that the Dana 44s can be swapped between F1s and
53-56 F100s if the spring perches are moved. I would interpret this to mean
that the hub to hub distance is the same, so you could use a 57-60 9" Ford
F100 axle if you moved the spring perches, following the information in my
previous post.

If you have the same upper shock mounting as 53-56, you can use the 57-60
spring seat caps and U bolts, too. If not, there's a fabrication point.
Also, I can't tell you about driveshafts, but this is a fairly
straightforward issue.

All I can say is that some work with a tape measure in a junkyard is
probably your best bet, but this info should give you a start as far as what
to look for.

Personally, after weighing the whole business, I opted to keep the Dana 44.
Going to a highway ratio means getting a 3 series carrier (all of the stock
truck axles use a 4 series carrier). Ford and Merc cars used the Dana 44
thru 1956 as a heavy duty axle, so carriers and ring-pinion sets are the
same for 51 Merc Merc-O-Matics, early 50s Ford and Merc station wagons, and
55-56 TBirds. You can get 3.54 and 3.31 ratios from these axles, plus the 3
series carrier. Additionally, ring -pinion sets from some 50s Hudsons and
Studebakers will swap, offering a 3.07 ratio. I picked up the 51 Merc set in
3.31, which I plan to install this year."

>From Rick 51-F1 & Stephen Hanson -
"He said that a 67-71 (or there abouts) F-100 F150 9" is a direct bolt in to
the 48-50 F-1. Has anyone ever actually done this? I found a '70 F-150 9" at
the junkyard (OOPS, Auto Parts Recycling Center) for $150, Is this a fair
price?

Hi Stephen , my name is Rick . I have a 51-F1 and in the middle of this
project
today.
I bought a 9" from a salvage yard out of a 71 F100 Custom Sport for $100,
3.55 traction lock complete from drum to drum. The spring mounts line up
perfectly and
the overall width is within 1" of the original rearend. Its bolted in today.
I have a few things to work out before its finished.
1. The rearend is tilted back and not perpendicular to the ground. Do I
need
wedges between the springs and mounts? Or do I have something in wrong?
2. It looks like the shock mounts on the axle will not line up with the
mounts on
the frame. What kind of workarounds can anyone suggest?
3. I haven't given much thought to the emergency brake cables. Should I
try to use
the 51 cables or the 71 ?"

>From R. Pietsch -
" I also own a '56 and when it came time to change rears, I got
mine out of a 1966 F100. It was a direct bolt in and only took me part
of an afternoon to do the job using only a bottle jack, jack stands, and
basic hand tools.
Not a real difficult job at all."

>From Kevin Kemmerer -
"9 inchers where made in several "sizes". the lighter cars had a lighter duty
welded housing and 28(i think) spline axles. there was a beefier hnousing,
and one even beefier (with 31t spline) wich was used in the 70's 1/2 ton v8
trucks and some luxury cars,-the 6 cyl truck used to lighter axle. on the
ouside, the difference in these 3 is measureable by the length that the center
weldment runs out before the round axle tube is welded on."

>From Sleddog -
"a ford 9" is a welded steel housing with a center section (diferential) that
is removable from the front. once out a close look at the carrier (center
section or third member) shows adjusting nuts for the ring gear/pinion
adjustment instead of shims as most axles have.
the 9" is a ford axle only. a dana axle like the dana 44, dana 60, dana 70,
dana 80 are made by dana and also called spicer axles. all of these axles are
castings with pressed or weleded on axle tubes and a cover plate on the rear
of the axle (the nine inch has no cover plate), you know, the one many people
buy a crome one and bolt it on.
the dana has the size on the snout. the nine inch was for the 1/2 ton trucks
and the dana 44 was is the front of the 1/2 and 3/4 ton trucks. dana 60 was
used in the 3/4 ton trucks in the front of one tons, and the 70 and 80 found
thier way into one tons. if you look at a nine inch, it does not have round
axle tubes but the dana axles do. also the dana 60 and larger rear axles are
genereally full floater axles."

whew!
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Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 07:54:42 -0800
From: Steve Bittman
Subject: FTE Pre61 - Re Y block and tranny information:

Andy-

For excellent yblock infomation, check out the Y block web site at:
members.aol.com/Yblock/YBLOCK.htm

Also, I have 1956 f-100 big window, express body with a 292 &
ford/holley 94. Does anybody know of options regarding the air filter
on these carbs? My oil bath unit seems to leak from someplace, and I
would like to use a dry element, or a K&N filter. The carb airhorn has
a projection running around the top meant for the clamp on the oil
bath. The projection makes it difficult to adapt those cheap looking
little 3.5-inch diameter jobs that I don't like anyway. Any ideas out
there?

Steve Bittman
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Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 11:15:10 -0500
From: The Neighbors
Subject: FTE Pre61 - Transmissions

Andy wrote: "BUT - what would you suggest for a tranny? It has the
original BorgW 2 speed automatic. I could put in a three speed but I am
not interested in cutting up the floor and getting a clutch assy."

My suggestion would be the transmission variously known as the Dual
Range Cruis-o-matic, Cruis-o-matic, MX and FMX. Ford quit using this
transmission in, I believe, the late '70s. It is one tough transmission,
and can be identified by it's cast iron case and aluminum bell housing
and tailshaft extension. I think finding one will be pretty easy, but
finding the bell housing that will mate to the Y-block could be
difficult. Ford quit using it not because it was a bad tranny (it was in
production about 20 years) but because it weighs a TON!!! When you find
one, get a buddy to help you carry it to the truck!
There has been a thread on the Y-block site you may want to look into
concerning using a C4, also a very good transmission. I hesitate to
suggest it because I am not 100% sure a bell housing or adapter exists
to use with a Y-block. The great thing about a C4 is its light weight,
it's durable, and you can find scads of build-up parts for them.
- --
Don Neighbors
'54 F250 Named Grover

"Any dropped tool or part will automatically fall into the most
inaccessible part of the vehicle."

grover ford-trucks.com
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Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 14:02:14 EST
From: SJablecki aol.com
Subject: FTE Pre61 - positive ground vs. negative ground

What is the advantage in changing a f 1 from a positive ground to a negative
ground system? Can you still purchase a positive ground radio, or does it
need to be configured by some electrical means? Stan
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Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 12:02:54 -0700
From: Ken Toop
Subject: FTE Pre61 - Gas Gauge Query

I have been trying to trouble-shoot the gas gauge on my '57 F-100. There
is no needle movement when I hook up the hotwire to the sender unit. (Yes,
there is gas in the tank--checked that.) When I connect a VOM between the
hotwire and the sender unit the VOM needle surges between 0 and 8 or so
volts at a rate of about twice per second. Placing the VOM between the
hotwire and a good ground gives me a 12 volt reading. Is it time for a new
tank sending unit, or is there another way out of this quagmire?


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Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 14:32:28 -0600
From: "Rich Garber"
Subject: RE: FTE Pre61 - Re Y block and tranny information:

> Also, I have 1956 f-100 big window, express body with a 292 &
> ford/holley 94. Does anybody know of options regarding the air filter
> on these carbs? My oil bath unit seems to leak from someplace, and I
> would like to use a dry element, or a K&N filter. The carb airhorn has
> a projection running around the top meant for the clamp on the oil
> bath. The projection makes it difficult to adapt those cheap looking
> little 3.5-inch diameter jobs that I don't like anyway. Any ideas out
> there?
>
> Steve Bittman

Steve,

My 54 oil bath had pin holes in it so it would never hold oil again.
And with as much time as I spent getting all that old oil off the engine
I couldn't bring myself to putting an oil bath back on it.

I did however want it to look original, so I cut the guts out of the oil
bath
(dirty job) and found a paper filter that fit. Its all back together, looks
like an oil bath, but its not.

I did take alot of pictures while I was doing it. If you need some let
me know.


Rich
54 F100

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Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 18:39:29 -0500
From: The Neighbors
Subject: FTE Pre61 - Oil Gallery Plugs

While tearing down my 239 Y-block, I ended up having to use an E-Z out
to get the oil gallery plugs out. When I put the new ones in, should I
slather some anti-sieze lubricant on them, or use Teflon tape?
- --
Don Neighbors
'54 F250 Named Grover

"Any dropped tool or part will automatically fall into the most
inaccessible part of the vehicle."

grover ford-trucks.com
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Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 18:40:50 -0500
From: Paul
Subject: FTE Pre61 - 9 inch rears

I believe 72 back to 57 pickup rears will bolt right in. I know the 72
will; I put one in my panel...was within a hair of stock width, and had
the same spring perches. Since the 72 definitely will, I would assume
that all the earlier ones will also.

Paul G.
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Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 19:09:13 -0500
From: "C. Greenlaw"
Subject: Re: FTE Pre61 - Gas Gauge Query

Ken Toop wrote:

> I have been trying to trouble-shoot the gas gauge on my '57 F-100. Is it
> time for a new
> tank sending unit, or is there another way out of this quagmire?
>

The easiest way I know to check out this kind of a situation, is to remove
the tank sending wire and ground it to a good frame ground. The gage should go
to full, if no motion, then a bad gauge or wiring, wiring seldom fails. If the
gauge moves, it may indiate a bad tank ground. Clean off a spot near (or on)
the sending unit and ground it there, it the gauge moves, I guess you're
looking at pulling out the sender. Don't forget to turn on the ignition to make
these tests.

47Fred

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Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 19:26:17 -0500
From: "C. Greenlaw"
Subject: Re: FTE Pre61 - Oil Gallery Plugs

The Neighbors wrote:

> While tearing down my 239 Y-block, I ended up having to use an E-Z out
> to get the oil gallery plugs out. When I put the new ones in, should I
> slather some anti-sieze lubricant on them, or use Teflon tape?
> --

Use some sort of sealer, with anti-sieze they may blow out, and telfon
tape is only good for decorating Christmas trees and should never be used
on anything that might leak. Can you lay your hands on some Loctite 592 or
Permatex PST, two names for the same thing. This stuff will seal up
anything and stays flexable. I use to use the soft brown Permatex (#2??) for
this and it always worked well, but now I keep my eye open for used up tubes
of 592 (plumbers hate to squeeze hard) and use that for anything holding
liquids.

47Fred

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Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 23:52:15 -0000
From: "Ray Cardogno"
Subject: Re: FTE Pre61 - 9 inch rears


- --

On Sat, 23 Jan 1999 18:40:50 Paul wrote:
>I believe 72 back to 57 pickup rears will bolt right in. I know the 72
>will; I put one in my panel...was within a hair of stock width, and had
>the same spring perches. Since the 72 definitely will, I would assume
>that all the earlier ones will also.....

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