pre61-list-digest Saturday, May 1 1999 Volume 03 : Number 125



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Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1948 - 1948 truck and vans
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In this issue:

FTE Pre61 - Twin-I-beam 62 Unibody
Re: FTE Pre61 - IFS
FTE Pre61 - Truck photo for Pigeon Forge
Re: FTE Pre61 - Re: Good Guys Meet in Orlando
FTE Pre61 - Wheels for rear
FTE Pre61 - Floor Pan of an 51 F1
FTE Pre61 - Re: Pre61 - independant rear suspension
FTE Pre61 - Re: Pre61 - IFS
Re: FTE Pre61 - Floor Pan of an 51 F1
FTE Pre61 - top oiler

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Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 08:25:15 EDT
From: A62Unibody aol.com
Subject: FTE Pre61 - Twin-I-beam 62 Unibody

Terry,
thats right , my 62 uni is sitting on a 65 frame it even has lowered i
beams and power steering and power brakes just a little 302 and a fmx
transmission.
handles great and has a good ride too. 65 wheel base was just an inch longer
than the 62 but looks ok with the wheel placement in the wheel wells. I have
a freind in Oklahoma that has a 56 F-100 sitting on a 72 frame sitting low to
the ground with all the comforts of a new truck. So, yes this has been done
many times and I'm in he process of planning another Unibody on a 66 frame i
have.
How does this sound, 61 Uni with a big back window, 460, C-6, 3:50 gears,
still in the planning stage but will have air ride suspension.

Randy
A62Unibody
Central Arkansas Pickups club member
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Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 09:14:15 -0400
From: 47Fred
Subject: Re: FTE Pre61 - IFS

Terry wrote:
>
> I was curious why no one has bothered with the twin I-beam on the older
> straight axle trucks? I know it is not as smooth and responsive as an IFS.
> But with so many people building closer to stock it is nearly a bolt up to
> an existing frame. The crossmember can hold as big of an engine as someone
> can come up with. And it is easy to bolt on disc brakes and power steering.
> If you dont plan to build a lowered street rod, the I-beam seems to be a
> good alternative, unless I am missing the boat about something. Anybody have
> good reasons why it wouldnt be a viable choice?
>

Most people who are building a modified truck, don't really want a
truck, they want a street rod that looks like a truck, one that can
actually go around a corner while under power, and that can smoke the
tires at a moments notice. The only reason to go to all the trouble to
move a twin I-beam to a 50's truck would be to make a truck, which,
presumably, one would already have.

47 Fred
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Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 11:01:56 -0600
From: "Janet Herron"
Subject: FTE Pre61 - Truck photo for Pigeon Forge

Ken,
If we send a self addressed stamped envelope will it be possible to get =
the pictures back?
Janet
Blazin'48

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Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 13:40:09 EDT
From: TNickolson aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE Pre61 - Re: Good Guys Meet in Orlando

I have been to better. I was disappointed because there were so few vendors.
I had planned on picking up a few things for my truck. The only good thing
for me, was their were a few cars from Georgia that I had not seen. I joined
the "Good Guys" because of the magazine. As you know its not expensive to
join. I am also looking for a "34" two or four door Hot Rod as my next
project, sometimes you can find something that is interesting at a car show.


Tom
"The General" 52 F1
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Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 14:21:24 -0700
From: "Paul G."
Subject: FTE Pre61 - Wheels for rear

My panel's new frame has a Chrysler rear end. This rear end is a bit
too narrow for the frame, so that, with 15x8 wheels and 205 70 15 tires,
there is only about 1/2 inch clearance between the frame and inside of
rear tire sidewalls.

How much clearance is enough? I figure another 1/2 inch wouldn't hurt.
Is the original 1/2 inch enough?

The current ugly wheels have no setback on them, so I figure if I went
from the current wheels 4" to 3 1/2" setback that would be enough.
However, if the current 1/2 inch is acceptable, I would rather go with
the standard setback/offset of 4 inches on a 8 inch rim, because this
gives a much larger selection of possible wheels.

What about spacers?

Thanks for your help. For the record, this truck had this rear in it a
long time ago (I reinstalled it) and I guess the 1/2 clearance was no
problem, but I would rather ask some of you guys' opinions.

Thanks, Paul Gayda
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Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 12:36:05 -0700
From: "Vierra, William BGI SF"
Subject: FTE Pre61 - Floor Pan of an 51 F1

Next week I am going to pull out the seat of my 51 F1 to rip out the maroon
shag carpet that a former owner I am sure thought looked so nice.

After ripping it out I am going to assess the overall condition of the
floor. The floor seems pretty flexible right now. By that I mean where the
seat bracket attaches to the floor it flexes when I push up on the seat. It
is probably just a bad installation of a seat from a Ranger in the truck. I
am most likely going to replace the floor pan.

Has anyone done this and do you have any recommendations? My idea to
strengthen it is to weld a large flat piece of steal under the new floor
pan where the seat bracket and seatbelts bolt up. If that seems impractical
I may start looking into a different seat. Any recommendations, as the
original seat is long gone and while the Ranger seat is pretty good I am
sure there are better options.
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Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 18:53:11 -0500
From: "Brett L. Habben"
Subject: FTE Pre61 - Re: Pre61 - independant rear suspension

Subject: FTE Pre61 - independent rear suspension
Sheldon,
A couple monthes back one of the Truck or Rodder magazines featured a hot
rodded 50's pickup ('52 Ch*v!, maybe?) with a T-Bird rear. It was chosen
over a Vette rear because of it's width. Did any of you folks see this?
It was worth taking a look at.
Brett
PS. Is the Ford 8.8 a Dana axle? Dana 44?
>
>Hi all!!
>was at my buddies the mechanics yesterday & he had a '90 Tbird
supercoupe
>that had been crashed that they were salvaging the drive line out of
>a closer looked that these things have independent rear suspension which
is
>bizarre because I just read in a popular magazine how the new Stang SVT
is
>Fords first IRS in a RWD car
>question:
>would these things have regular 9" internals
>why have I seen tons of Jag & vette rear ends but not one of these
>any downside to using one
>it seems to be in it's own subframe so shouldn't be too bad to install -
>appears reasonably compact - one of the wheels took a hard hit so will
have
>to make sure the support arms are OK
>Thanks!!!
>Sheldon


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Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 18:45:16 -0500
From: "Brett L. Habben"
Subject: FTE Pre61 - Re: Pre61 - IFS

Subject: FTE Pre61 - IFS
Terry,
I agree with you, and would use it on a 'truck' truck. Forgive me if I
have posted this before, but here's some info I got from Tommy Haycraft:

Hey Brett, its good to here from you. The twin I beam is fairly easy to
install, Just find a good suspension from 65 to around 80 or 81. I used
a 69 but swapped the axles with a 76 so that I would have disc brakes.
Use the F100 or F150 frame only. Some of the early 80's ford had the
small bolt pattern on the F100 light duty trucks that had the same bolt
pattern as the ford car and chyrsler car. If you have a car rearend then
this might be what you want to look for. Just make sure that it looks
like the older suspension. Some of the early 80's had a lighter steel
radius arms verses the older cast iron (I preferr these). The one i
installed was a 76. Find a good truck (not a farm truck) to use as a
doner truck. Cut the frame off below the cab just behind the radius arms
so that you will have the complete suspension in one package. If you
measure the twin I beam suspension at the spring towers you will notice
that it is only 32 inches versus the 53 thru early 60's is 34 inches
wide, yep the twin I beam is a narrower frame. This is really not a
problem. Take measurements off of each frame, measure everything. Spring
towers, radius mounts, and mark everything on one side, take a can on
paint and put a make on everything on one side so you can not get them
mixed up (I used orange paint). Also put a make on top of the spring
towers with a file or punch were the center of the axle is. Just put a
straight edge or a long level on top of the spring towers (before you
take it off of the orginal frame) and center it up by looking straight
down on the king pins and then since this is the axle center put the
mark on top of the spring tower this will make centering it up in the
frame a LOT easier. Take the twin I beam suspension and do not cut it
off, just grind off the rivet heads and take it apart (sounds easy) take
your time some of those things are hard to get out. The crossmember is
welded in a little spot or two be carefull and cut it out but keep the
cross member as long as you can. Also make sure that you leave the
bracket on fore the steering box, if MUST be left welded on to the
crossmember. It will take some cutting and grinding to get it cleaned
up. I did not use the crossmember that fits between the radius arm
mounts, you can if you like but you must modify it or make a new one.
Now it is time to start installing it one your frame. Find the
centerline of the orginal axle and put the spring towers on with big C
clamps, they will sit up higher than one the orginal frame, make sure
you have them in the right spot and just drill the hole were the rivets
was :-) Now to install the crossmember, it is a little more difficult.
You must cut some notches in it so that you can slid it into the frame,
twist (this is what i did) it in or if you remove the orginal front
member (radiator suport) then you can start were the bumper bolt on and
slide it on back. Now comes the tricky part, the member must be in the
same spot as it was in the doner truck. The bracket for the steering box
will need some welding and some peices of pipe between the bracket and
the frame so that when you bolt up the steering box it will not be
squeezing the frame together and the top pipe will go thru the top of
the frame rail :-( Perfect welding is a must here also use extra thick
pipe that the bolts will just fit thru (NO SLACK) and use the orginal
steering bolts. Also you might should move the member and steering
mount all the way over to the drivers side because the passenger side
tie rod is not adjustable and this frame is a little wider. Wider is
good because it will pull the wheels together an inch on each side which
will help keep them under the fenders better. You might be able to shift
the bracket a little so that the top bolt will be below the top lip of
the frame, I'm sure this can be done but be carefull you want to keep
the same suspension geometry. Now you have everything done except the
raduis mounts, before mounting them, bolt on the axles and raduis arms.
Bolt the raduis mounts to the raduis arms. Now clamp the mount to the
frame with C clamps with the axles centered on the centerline that you
made on top of the spring towers. You can either go ahead and drill
holes and bolt them on or you can install the cab and front cap and see
if the wheels sit where you want them. :-)
If you can this would be best because before you mount the radius mounts
you can move the axle up or back probably and inch or so just by taking
off the C clamps and repostion it where you want it and then drill the
holes for the radius mounts. Just make sure that the axles will be
hitting the axle bumpers in the right spot and not hitting the metal
cross member causing it to be in a bind. Now mount the bracket for your
brake line (cut off of the orginal twin I beam frame) put it so the
brake line will not be stretched when the wheels are turned all the way
to one side.
Use strong bolts and maybe even add an extra to the spring towers and
maybe even tack weld them so they can not work out or lose.
The only thing I don't like about this is the steering box will sit up
very high and the rag joint will be in the floor of the cab. Also
depending on the steering colume you use you might be better off using a
floor shifter or a steering colume that uses a cable for the shifter.
Do you remember Will Willis? He was the editor for Ford Folio in
Truckin magazine for several years, He was the one that had this truck
useing the twin i beam. He was very pleased with it. He built it in the
70's using a 428 or 429 cobra jet engine. I did not get the opertunity
to finish mine (yet) but I do still have. What year truck are you
working on? Good luck, Tommy Haycraft

>>Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 19:12:32 -0500
>>From: "Terry"
>>Subject: FTE Pre61 - IFS
>>I was curious why no one has bothered with the twin I-beam on the
>>older straight axle trucks? I know it is not as smooth and responsive
as an
>>IFS. But with so many people building closer to stock it is nearly a
bolt
>>up to an existing frame. The crossmember can hold as big of an engine
as
>>someone can come up with. And it is easy to bolt on disc brakes and
power
>>steering. If you dont plan to build a lowered street rod, the I-beam
seems to be
>>a good alternative, unless I am missing the boat about something.
>>Anybody have good reasons why it wouldnt be a viable choice?
>

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Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 20:58:09 EDT
From: PWPTRUCK1 aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE Pre61 - Floor Pan of an 51 F1

William,
As far as welding a flat piece of steel to the floorboard goes, I don't
believe the weld would hold. The two pieces being welded need to be pretty
much the same thickness. Say for instance, you weld an 18 gauge piece of
steel to a quarter inch plate. The weld depends on equal amounts of heat
transfer through the two pieces. By the time enough heat transfers through
the thicker steel, the thinner piece wil have already have a hole burnt
through it. If you make a quick pass with the welder, the thinner metal will
have a good bead on it, but the thicker piece will not have "absorbed" the
weld enough for it to hold for long. I have tried to do this before and the
weld did hold for a short time, but later cracked. You might try bolting the
plate to the floor with a series of bolts. This may work better.
Paul
'52 F-3
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Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 21:10:34 -0700
From: Marilyn Boese
Subject: FTE Pre61 - top oiler

Hi,
someone around here needs a top oiler for a Y-block...anyone got one
that you can give up? Thanks,
marilyn ....

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