pre61-list-digest Thursday, June 25 1998 Volume 02 : Number 177



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Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1960 and Older trucks and vans
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In this issue:

Re[2]: FTE Pre61 - Re: Jeep Question
Re: FTE Pre61 - Dual exhausts on flathead.
FTE Pre61 - Carlilse Nationals
FTE Pre61 - new url for painters/wannabe painters
Re: FTE Pre61 - Carlilse Nationals
[none]
FTE Pre61 - Running Board Upgrade
Re: FTE Pre61 - Kerosene to clean out truck?
Re: FTE Pre61 - Dual exhausts on flathead.
FTE Pre61 - Just what do I have here??
Re: FTE Pre61 - Running Board Upgrade
Re: FTE Pre61 - Carlilse Nationals
Re: FTE Pre61 - Running Board Upgrade
Re: FTE Pre61 - Running Board Upgrade
RE: FTE Pre61 - Carlilse Nationals
RE: FTE Pre61 - Carlilse Nationals
FTE Pre61 - Spare Tire
FTE Pre61 - Yblock ID
Re: FTE Pre61 - Spare Tire
RE: FTE Pre61 - Carlilse Nationals
Re: FTE Pre61 - Yblock ID
Re: FTE Pre61 - Kerosene to clean out truck?
Re: FTE Pre61 - Kerosene to clean out truck?
Re: FTE Pre61 - Carlilse Nationals
FTE Pre61 - Engine Identity

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Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 08:59:33 -0400
From: Chris Hedemark
Subject: Re[2]: FTE Pre61 - Re: Jeep Question

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Monday, 22 June 98, Ray Cardogno wrote:

> Ford people don't like Jeeps, they don't have chevy engines :-)

Ugh, don't even get me started. I was at a car show in Hillsborough,
NC over the weekend and I have never seen so many Fords with "pig
hearts" in my life. Only a couple of the hot-rodded Fords had Ford
engines, and of course the restored cars/trucks had flathead fords.

Chris mailto:chris yonderway.com
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.yonderway.com
1987 Ford F250 5.0L 2WD "Ugly Truckling" aka "Optimus Primer"

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Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 09:20:14 -0400
From: 47 Fred
Subject: Re: FTE Pre61 - Dual exhausts on flathead.

Brechtjohn aol.com wrote:

> I asked this question not long ago and no one responded.
> Does anyone have any thoughts on dual exhausts for a flathead?
> Headers? Are they necessary?

This is one of those areas where preference, intent and ownership take
precedent over practicality. Dual exhaust is practically a requirement
for any modified V8, and even many "stock" units. Nothing else brings
out that unique sound, especially on a flattie with its strange common
port. From a practical standpoint, duals are a waste of time and money,
you won't find many flatmotors that will gain a noticeable performance
improvement over a single pipe. Headers? same thing, they help somewhat
with breathing over stock manifolds, but by themselves produce little
serious improvement, it's more of a sound and looks thing. Personally,
I prefer to run dual pipes on all my little toys, My '57 has them, my
Muskrat does and the '47 will too. Dual exhaust....Don't leave home
without them.

47Fred


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Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 10:50:28 -0400
From: "Tarnoff, Howard"
Subject: FTE Pre61 - Carlilse Nationals

Though I might share our experience at the Nationals with the group. Not
interested? Delete now.

First it was great to meet Abe, thanks for taking the time to make the many
trips over to find us. It is always nice to put a face in front of the
fonts.

Our 55 F100 received 75.5 out of 100 points. The judging was done at night
and owners were not permitted to be on-site. We will receive the judging
sheets by mail. There was an eclectic mixture of trucks in the Sweepstakes.
All, although not to my taste, were absolutely outstanding example of what
they were trying to do. We were one of four stock entries. A '58 Cameo and
a match pair of 72 Ch*v 1/2 tons. Only two trucks scored over 90 points.

There was a new 98 F150 that the owner had just finished a $35,000 air brush
mural on. He will be doing a very complete tour of all the national shows.
You just gotta see it. I will not comment beyond that.

We found a couple of "must have" things to add to our "stuff". Also enjoyed
going over the truck with the people from Meguires. What great people.

In summary, glad we did this and got it out of our system before we get too
much older. It will be very helpful to see the judging sheets as I don't
think we will ever have this level of critique again...4 judges each
spending one hour on each truck.

We did not find the spare tire carrier (under bed) that we were looking for.

Regards,
Howard
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Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 10:58 -0400 (EDT)
From: jniolon uss.com
Subject: FTE Pre61 - new url for painters/wannabe painters


a friend from another list passed along this address for paint
questions/answers...

www.horizonweb.com/wwwboard/spray_101/wwwboard.html

got some good info in painting, products, techniques etc...

some of you might need... thought it might help

john

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Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 14:09:57 -0400
From: "Bill Hale"
Subject: Re: FTE Pre61 - Carlilse Nationals

I had the pleasure to see Howard's 55 at Carlisle. It's a thing of beauty. I
only wish I could've got closer (past the chains). There was also a very
nice 50 Mercury. I was a little disappointed in the number of old (pre-60)
trucks there. Anyway, it was a good time and I will attend again.
Bill


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Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 13:30:13 -0500
From: "Mike Morton "
Subject: [none]

> From: Sleddog
> Subject: FTE Perf - tranny fluid temperature
> Date: Sun, 21 Jun 1998 16:44:05 -0400

> does anybody know what temperature ATF SHOULD be run at? i have
> info on life expectancy at different temps, but too cold may not be
> good either.
> anyone?

I am putting in a trans cooler and a temp gauge right now so I was
asking the same question.
I checked with the shop that I bought my trans from and he said that
165-175 degrees should
give a life expectancy to the fluid of 50,000-100,000 miles with normal
driving. How does this
compare to your info?

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Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 18:27:10 -0400
From: "Paul G."
Subject: FTE Pre61 - Running Board Upgrade

I wonder if anyone knows where I could purchase a covering material for
my panel's running boards. The boards are solid, but have some bad
spots, but not enough to justify buying new ones for this daily driver.

The material I was looking for would be like the black plastic used on
the step areas on rear bumpers. Is this or something similar available?

Thanks, Paul G.
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Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 20:45:52 EDT
From: JRFiero aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE Pre61 - Kerosene to clean out truck?

In a message dated 98-06-21 18:13:47 EDT, you write:


According to him, drain the oil, put in about 1/2 gal of kerosene in the
oil filler tube, run the engine at idle--no more than idle until the you
hear the tappets click. Drain and repeat. According to him, about the
second time around, the engine is as clean as new. Anybody have any
experience with this? Do I want to do this with 52 F1 Flathead 8 engine?
If I do, what, if any liability do I incur? I wonder about this, however,
he tells me tht he has rebuilt several old cars and never had a problem
with this? What do you guys thinK? >>

I think you're just asking for it.
Why do you want to 'clean out' the flathead? Something stuck? You may
find that what you clean out is holes that don't leak now but will when
they're clean, etc.
Couple issues here. Flatheads originally used non-detergent oils, and if
they've continued to use it, there is a whole lot of stuff just waiting to
break loose and clog up some smaller orifice. Previous advice has been to
remove the pan, scrape and clean off the amazing amount of gunk, reassemble,
then drive it with modern detergent oil for 100 or so miles, then change that.
Depending on what it looks like, you might want a few more quick change
intervals. If your engine has been running for a while with modern detergent
oil, then again I have to ask why you want to 'clean it.'
Straight kerosene? Only 1/2 gallon (2quarts!)? Can't do the bearings any
good with the flathead's undoubtedly minimal oil pressure already. What
you'll start to hear may not be tappets at all, since you hopefully hear them
already. Rods rattling around on the crank is more like it.
I have, however, done the brief idle with one quart of tranny fluid added
to the oil before draining. Don't know if it did any good at all. I run
modern multiweight in my flathead, which was rebuilt in 1963. Lots of gunk at
the bottom of the oil filter housing which I scraped out, but other than that,
whatever else is gunked up inside is going to stay that way.
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Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 21:05:10 EDT
From: JRFiero aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE Pre61 - Dual exhausts on flathead.

In a message dated 98-06-21 23:55:38 EDT, you write:

I asked this question not long ago and no one responded.
Does anyone have any thoughts on dual exhausts for a flathead?

Headers? Are they necessary?
>>
Count me on the Yes side for headers and duals.
In general, headers are the cheapest horsepower you can buy. Unfortunately
flatheads aren't 'general,' and the siamese port may reduce some of the
improvement, but jeez, those ol cast manifolds are restrictive as can be! I
have headers from Early Ford, but I haven't put them on yet. 1 3/4", as
another post mentioned. I have glasspacks and tailpipes, the latter bent at
spring Carlisle by a husband-wife-daughter team with an RV, a pipe bending
machine, and a lot of ancient reference books which tell them how to bend the
old stuff. Now I need to bend the pipes 'tween the headers and the
glasspacks, and someday I'm going to add a crossover tube.
A flathead with duals has a unique sound which makes the duals worth it.
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Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 21:36:38 -0400
From: "John Miller"
Subject: FTE Pre61 - Just what do I have here??

Hi gang, got a question for the 385 series gurus. I walked into the hangar
the other day and saw a small for sale poster on the cork board. It read, "
Ford 429 For Sale" hmmmmmm geeeees, I thought to myself I should check this
out. It said it was torn down, heads reworked, all parts hot-tanked etc.
etc. Hmmmmm. So today I talked to this guy, I was not too impressed, he
really didn't know what he had or what had been done and/or checked for
sure. Without knowing casting numbers etc I told him I would like to check
it out, so tonite I did and I ended up buying the whole mess. Now I don't
really know what I have, So here are the numbers in hopes some of you can
tell me what they are and a little about them. TIA

Item Casting #

Heads DOVE-C

Block D1VE-6015-A2

Rods DOOE A

Rod Caps C9AE-B / C210-B

Crank No markings found

Holley carb No Tag, only Holley #s



John Miller, FoMoCoNUT Gibralter.net
96 F-350 Reg Cab XLT, 4x4, 460 w/ A4OD, My Baby "Baloo"
75 F-100 Reg Cab Ranger, 2wd, 360, C6, Daily Driver "Lucy"
and "always" looking ! ! !
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Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 21:38:38 EDT
From: KLaff61624 aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE Pre61 - Running Board Upgrade

Use a bedliner or rubber mat. Just a thought.

Ken L.
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Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 22:08:10 EDT
From: TNickolson aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE Pre61 - Carlilse Nationals

Could you post a copy of the judging sheet. I would like to see what they are
looking for. If the sheet is to long to post, pleases send a copy directly to
me at:
Tom Nickolson
10455 Trailwood Circle
Jupiter, Florida
33478

Tjanks

Ton
52Ford F1 Flathead
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Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 02:00:34 -0500
From: Ray Cardogno
Subject: Re: FTE Pre61 - Running Board Upgrade

>I wonder if anyone knows where I could purchase a covering material for
>my panel's running boards. The boards are solid, but have some bad
>spots, but not enough to justify buying new ones for this daily driver.
>
>The material I was looking for would be like the black plastic used on
>the step areas on rear bumpers. Is this or something similar available?
>
>Thanks, Paul G.
>== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

The last truck I did I had that spryed-on Rhyno stuff that they use as
sprayed-on truck bed liners. It is a 2-part epoxy that hardens tough as
nails. Before it hardened we sprinkled black carborundum grit into the
black epoxy (both come in other colors) for the running boards only. We
also did the bed minus the grit. Tough as nails. No more babying. No more
rust. Should I mention no more slipping and falling on one's as* when wet?

Ray C


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Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 03:24:19 EDT
From: AZYacht aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE Pre61 - Running Board Upgrade

Paul,
Try Mitch LaPointe's Classic Boat Connection
3824 Sunset Dr.
Spring Park, MN 55384

Phone 612 471-8687
They have the rubber in ribbed or pyramid.Black or White.
Makes very authentic copy style floor mats also.

Gary Oberbeck
47 1/2 t Panel "Not Rod"
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Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 08:20:15 -0400
From: "Tarnoff, Howard"
Subject: RE: FTE Pre61 - Carlilse Nationals

I have asked for a fax copy from Carlilse. If i get that I will forward it
to you when received. Otherwise we wait for the mail.

Howard

> -----Original Message-----
> From: TNickolson aol.com [SMTP:TNickolson aol.com]
> Sent: Monday, June 22, 1998 9:08 PM
> To: pre61-list ford-trucks.com
> Subject: Re: FTE Pre61 - Carlilse Nationals
>
> Could you post a copy of the judging sheet. I would like to see what they
> are
> looking for. If the sheet is to long to post, pleases send a copy directly
> to
> me at:
> Tom Nickolson
> 10455 Trailwood Circle
> Jupiter, Florida
> 33478
>
> Tjanks
>
> Ton
> 52Ford F1 Flathead
> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
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Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 08:25:53 -0400
From: "Tarnoff, Howard"
Subject: RE: FTE Pre61 - Carlilse Nationals

Bill,

Sorry about the chains. Several people asked to come in a take close up
photos or just get a better look. I also saw the Merc and it did catch my
eye.

Thanks for the nice comment on my truck. Hope to meet you at one of the
shows. What did you think of the 98 F150 with the air brush paint?

Howard

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bill Hale [SMTP:wlhale csrlink.net]
> Sent: Monday, June 22, 1998 1:10 PM
> To: pre61-list ford-trucks.com
> Subject: Re: FTE Pre61 - Carlilse Nationals
>
> I had the pleasure to see Howard's 55 at Carlisle. It's a thing of beauty.
> I
> only wish I could've got closer (past the chains). There was also a very
> nice 50 Mercury. I was a little disappointed in the number of old (pre-60)
> trucks there. Anyway, it was a good time and I will attend again.
> Bill
>
>
> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
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Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 09:22:45 -0400
From: "Tarnoff, Howard"
Subject: FTE Pre61 - Spare Tire

I am looking for the mounting "stuff" required to hang a spare tire off the
bottom of my 55 F100. I think it consists of an arm and some mounting
hardware. Never have seen one.

If you have this "stuff" taking up room in the yard or the garage let me
know. $??

In looking at the shop manual and the parts manual I have not found a
drawing of how it is assembled or what it looks like when installed. Could
someone scan a photo and e-mail it.

Thanks,

Howard
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Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 08:40:31 -0500 (CDT)
From: (John Hoke)
Subject: FTE Pre61 - Yblock ID

Hey Everyone,
It took me a while to get back to a computer, but I found the
numbers off of my Yblock. They were actually under the passenger bank of
cylinders. There were two sets of numbers the first are ECGB015A. That
fourth letter may have been a 6 instead of a B, but I couldn't tell. The
second set of numbers is 55U:1. I'm guess this means its a '55. What else
can you tell me? (this engine is in a '53 F-250) Thanks.

John

hoke students.cso.uiuc.edu


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Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 10:14:50 -0400
From: "Bill Hale"
Subject: Re: FTE Pre61 - Spare Tire

Howard,
I have a friend who is just beginning restoration of a 55. I know he has a
parts truck (well some of it). I'll check with him and get back to you.
Bill.


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Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 14:30:34 -0400
From: "Tarnoff, Howard"
Subject: RE: FTE Pre61 - Carlilse Nationals

Put the sheet in the mail today. Please provide me with any judging sheets
you may have picked up along the way.

My address is in envelope with letter.

Howard

> -----Original Message-----
> From: TNickolson aol.com [SMTP:TNickolson aol.com]
> Sent: Monday, June 22, 1998 9:08 PM
> To: pre61-list ford-trucks.com
> Subject: Re: FTE Pre61 - Carlilse Nationals
>
> Could you post a copy of the judging sheet. I would like to see what they
> are
> looking for. If the sheet is to long to post, pleases send a copy directly
> to
> me at:
> Tom Nickolson
> 10455 Trailwood Circle
> Jupiter, Florida
> 33478
>
> Tjanks
>
> Ton
> 52Ford F1 Flathead
> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
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Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 22:34:10 +0300
From: "Tero Saarelainen"
Subject: Re: FTE Pre61 - Yblock ID

The number is ECG6015A.
Your block is probably 56-58 truck or 55-57 car 272cid y-block. Don't =
know what the other numbers stands for.

I hope this helps You

Tero Saarelainen
Finland
teros dlc.fi
'61 & '62 F-100 Unibody
'52 Mercury
'36 Ford Pickup

- -----Original Message-----
From: John Hoke
To: pre61-list ford-trucks.com
Date: Tuesday, June 23, 1998 4:45 PM
Subject: FTE Pre61 - Yblock ID


>Hey Everyone,
> It took me a while to get back to a computer, but I found the
>numbers off of my Yblock. They were actually under the passenger bank =
of
>cylinders. There were two sets of numbers the first are ECGB015A. =
That
>fourth letter may have been a 6 instead of a B, but I couldn't tell. =
The
>second set of numbers is 55U:1. I'm guess this means its a '55. What =
else
>can you tell me? (this engine is in a '53 F-250) Thanks.
>
>John
>
>hoke students.cso.uiuc.edu
>
>
>=3D=3D FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
>

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Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 21:22:44 -0400
From: MICK PRICE
Subject: Re: FTE Pre61 - Kerosene to clean out truck?

> > My neighbor was telling me about using kerosene to clean out an e If I do, what, if any liability do I incur? I wonder about this,
I tried a variation of this on a '50 Ford flathead V8 many years ago
except I used 1/2 oil and i/2 kerosene. The engine had been blowing out
the breather like mad beforehand and was vastly improved afterwards. I
drained it three times at a fast idle and drove it many miles
afterwards. Mick
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Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 22:03:50 -0500
From: Ray Cardogno
Subject: Re: FTE Pre61 - Kerosene to clean out truck?

>> > My neighbor was telling me about using kerosene to clean out an e If I
>>do, what, if any liability do I incur? I wonder about this,
> I tried a variation of this on a '50 Ford flathead V8 many years ago
>except I used 1/2 oil and i/2 kerosene. The engine had been blowing out
>the breather like mad beforehand and was vastly improved afterwards. I
>drained it three times at a fast idle and drove it many miles
>afterwards. Mick
>== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

Deciding to chime in here.

I like Mick's idea about draining the oil at fast idle. I don't like the
kerosene bit. I posted last time this thread surfaced about the 41 Chrysler
engine I ruined with only 60K miles on it by doing such a thing. Didn't
smoke before I did it. Became an insect fogger when I was done *fixing* it.

The philosphy I have developed over the years: I figure any sludge that's
fixed like a rock won't hurt anything, but it's those mean little crusties
that become suspended in turbulent oil that will get into things and really
score. I figure there's agood chance of them going down the drain if they
are suspended while the oil dumps.

My routine is this: the oil dumps, I burn my hand, I drop the plug into the
oil, I wipe my hand with the strategically waiting rag, I shut off the
engine. This process takes about 2705 milliseconds. Oh the joys of feeling
like your engine is all clean inside.

Sorry,

Ray C


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Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 08:59:56 -0500
From: Rich Garber
Subject: Re: FTE Pre61 - Carlilse Nationals

At 10:08 PM 6/22/98 EDT, you wrote:
>Could you post a copy of the judging sheet. I would like to see what they are
>looking for. If the sheet is to long to post, pleases send a copy directly to
>me at:
>Tom Nickolson
>10455 Trailwood Circle
>Jupiter, Florida
>33478
>
>Tjanks
>

Howard,

I would love to see a copy as well.
....


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