fordtrucks-digest V2 #86

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Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 22:33:14 -0700 (MST)
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fordtrucks-digest Tuesday, March 31 1998 Volume 02 : Number 086

=======================================================================
Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1960 And Older Trucks Digest
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In this issue:

Re: NEW MOTOR START UP and cooling [Jerry Berndt
Re: NEW MOTOR START UP and cooling [Thomas Teixeira ]
RE: NEW MOTOR START UP and cooling [Alec Fernandez ]
RE: Fuel Supply Problem [Alec Fernandez ]
Re: NEW MOTOR START UP and cooling [Ken Payne ]
Re-Vin Numbers - David Stokes [Chief2658 ]
'55 Handling [PhatStang ]
lowered '55? [PhatStang ]
RE: Fuel Supply Problem [Rich Garber ]
Re: Re-Vin Numbers - David Stokes [Rich Garber ]
RE: NEW MOTOR START UP and cooling [Thomas Teixeira ]
Can you read? [PhatStang ]
Re: Need Mid Fifties front shock mounts. [JRFiero ]
Re: Can you read? [Cathy Greenlaw ]
RE: Fuel Supply Problems [GEGK00A

prodigy.com ( DAN LEE)]
Re: lowered '52 [Flathead52 ]
Re: more bolt on hp [Cathy Greenlaw ]
Re: Fuel Supply Problem [Cathy Greenlaw ]
Oil Bath air cleaners [Rich Garber ]
Re: Need Mid Fifties front shock mounts. [Rich Garber
Cool Flatheads ["Earl T. Ingram, III" ]
Re: Fuel Supply Problem [Fordf3 ]
Allen head bumper bolts [Ray Cardogno ]
Touche' [Ray Cardogno ]
Gas tank problem [Ray Cardogno ]

=======================================================================

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 07:26:54 -0400
From: Jerry Berndt
Subject: Re: NEW MOTOR START UP and cooling

Sorry guy's, but don't confuse thermodynamics with folklore or BTU's with
temperature. Ingram's analysis and solution is thermal suicide for your
flathead. Let's carry this to the limit, if the water is held in the
radiator for a long time, yes it will get very cold, however the water in
the block will get very hot!

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 08:04:26 -0500
From: Thomas Teixeira
Subject: Re: NEW MOTOR START UP and cooling

At 7:26 AM -0400 3/31/98, Jerry Berndt wrote:
>Sorry guy's, but don't confuse thermodynamics with folklore or BTU's with
>temperature. Ingram's analysis and solution is thermal suicide for your
>flathead. Let's carry this to the limit, if the water is held in the
>radiator for a long time, yes it will get very cold, however the water in
>the block will get very hot!

Yes, but carry it to the other limit (as Ingram has) and the water in the
radiator AND the block get very hot also. This implies there's an optimum
flow rate: fast enough to circulate the coolant and slow enough to let the
radiator actually cool off the coolant.

Tom Teixeira mailto:tjt

asrc.cestm.albany.edu]
> Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 1998 6:27 AM
> To: fordtrucks

ListService.net
> Subject: Re: NEW MOTOR START UP and cooling
>
> Sorry guy's, but don't confuse thermodynamics with folklore or BTU's with
> temperature. Ingram's analysis and solution is thermal suicide for your
> flathead. Let's carry this to the limit, if the water is held in the
> radiator for a long time, yes it will get very cold, however the water in
> the block will get very hot!
>
[Alec Fernandez]

I've never owned a flathead so this is purely conjecture but is it not
possible that
the temp sensor is located close to the water inlet into the block. If this
were the
case then the fact that the water was colder when entering the block would
cause
the gauge to register a cooler temp, but as the water passed to the
remainder of
the block the slow rate of flow would allow it to heat more (just as it
allows it to cool
more in the radiator so what you get is a very cold block next to the water
inlet and
a very warm block where the water outlet is. Not an ideal situation. Then
again the
gentleman posting this idea certainly seemed to have experience, perhaps he
could elaborate more. It sure seems counter-intuitive based on the formulas
for
heat exchangers that I've seen, they all indicate that the faster you move a
liquid
through the exchanger, the more efficient they are because the higher the
temp
delta is across the exchanger, the better, to like the third power.

I personally liked that old post that claimed that warped cylinder heads
would cause
a flathead to heat. I must confess that I have no idea why this would be
the case
but you gotta love those off the wall solutions, they really set you to
thinking.

+-------------- Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1960 and Older
- --------------+
> | Send posts to fordtrucks

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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 08:09:18 -0500
From: Alec Fernandez
Subject: RE: Fuel Supply Problem

If this is a new tank then it could be a sealed tank, if you blocked off the
return
then it could draw a vacume and that would account for your problem. Though
I would expect the truck to run for a while before enough vacume to overcome
the fuel pump developed.

Another thing is that the tank is much lower than then original tank in the
cab,
you get some gravity feed to the fuel pump in the stock setup. This also
holds
true for the can in the cab (be careful for heaven's sake).

I'd make sure the line is clear by taking the lid off the gas tank (so as
not to
rupture the tank) set your air pressure at like 5 pounds and blow some air
into the tank and listen for bubbling. You'll need to do this on the gas
tank
side of the fuel pump.

If that checks out then hook the gas line back up to the fuel pump,
disconnect the
line into the carb and crank the engine and see if you can get some flow out
of
the line into a measuring device. There should be a flow rate in the manual
but it should fill a pint in under a minute I'm guessing.

You obviously want to disconnect the coil and be very careful not to have
any
potential sources of ignition (sparks, flame, manifold heat etcetera)

> -----Original Message-----
> From: FRD56F100 [SMTP:FRD56F100

aol.com]
> Sent: Monday, March 30, 1998 11:59 PM
> To: fordtrucks

ListService.net
> Subject: Fuel Supply Problem
>
> Hello everyone, I am currently having a problem with my 56 F100 and maybe
> somebody in the list can help me.
> My first problem is that the gas in the fuel tank just won't get to the
> carburator. I've replaced the complete fuel line from the gas tank to the
> carburator, replaced the fuel sender and the filter in it, and repaired a
> small gas tank leak with a loctite gas tank repair sealer. The gas tank
> is
> placed underneath the bed floor and is not the original tank. Also, the
> fuel
> sender assembly does not have a return line, the original tank did not
> have
> one either. The fuel pump is OK and the carburator filter is not clogged.
> I
> have driven the truck with a five gallon container full of fuel inside the
> cab
> with a hose connected to the fuel pump, the truck runs OK this way. The
> only
> thing left is replacing the fuel tank but I been having a hard time
> finding
> one locally. I just wish there was a way to solve this problem, is really
> driving me nuts. Another thing, I bought a fuel gauge at a Super Shop
> store
> and it won't work, it is wired correctly and the gauge works fine, I
> tested
> it before installation. Any help on this will be greatly appreciated.
>
> Joe
> +-------------- Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1960 and Older --------------+
> | Send posts to fordtrucks

listservice.net, removal form on the web |
> | site. |
> +---------- Visit Our Web Site: http://www.ford-trucks.com/ ----------+

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 12:58:50 -0500
From: Ken Payne
Subject: Re: NEW MOTOR START UP and cooling

At 07:26 AM 3/31/98 -0400, you wrote:
>Sorry guy's, but don't confuse thermodynamics with folklore or BTU's with
>temperature. Ingram's analysis and solution is thermal suicide for your
>flathead. Let's carry this to the limit, if the water is held in the
>radiator for a long time, yes it will get very cold, however the water in
>the block will get very hot!
>

As a practical solution, Red Line's additive is supposed to aid in
thermal transfer.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 15:20:48 EST
From: Chief2658
Subject: Re-Vin Numbers - David Stokes

Motorbooks International has a book called- Ford Pickup Red Book. The
location of your Vin Number plate form a 1956 PU should be on the rear face of
the drivers door. Any stampings on any part of the sheet metal is only for
when, where, and date the body parts were made. Most of the time these
numbers are on the firewall, passenger side, in the engine compartment. I'm
not aware of any other numbers stamped on the frame etc. having to due with
the VIn, nor dose this book say anything other than about the motor.

Good Luck
Chief2658

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 15:41:09 EST
From: PhatStang
Subject: '55 Handling

Hey, I have heard that if you have fat, fat tires in the back, like mickey
thompson 19.5x33, it is hard to control at high speed on turns and sort, and
then also having tire that are like 7" wide on the front. Has anyone out the
a truck that has a 460, since motor definatly puts out the high speed part,
with big tires on the rear? Can you mail me back with how you think it
handles compare to other vehicles, and like how much it tries to roll into
turns and sort. I would appreciate it if someone coyuld answer thhis for me.

Thanx,
Dan

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 15:41:17 EST
From: PhatStang
Subject: lowered '55?

Hey, one more question about the '55. First off I know when people
restore trucks such as these; they tend to either restore them to the state of
perfect original or a fat tired mass of power. Which I find both to be okay.
I was just wondering if anyone has seen a '55 or so truck that has been
lowered and has 17"-20" rims on it? I like the low profile truck look and
also the low profile tire look, yet i would still put a fast motor, like a
460. If anyone has seen such a thing done, or know of a site where you have
senn this, can you mail me the address or what ever it is (pic, address, etc.)

Thanx,
Dan

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 17:19:57 -0600
From: Rich Garber
Subject: RE: Fuel Supply Problem

>> Hello everyone, I am currently having a problem with my 56 F100 and maybe
>> somebody in the list can help me.
>> My first problem is that the gas in the fuel tank just won't get to the
>> carburator. I've replaced the complete fuel line from the gas tank to the
>> carburator, replaced the fuel sender and the filter in it, and repaired a
>> small gas tank leak with a loctite gas tank repair sealer. The gas tank

Remember, these pumps will not pump dry. You have to prime the line.

Rich
54 F100

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 17:23:04 -0600
From: Rich Garber
Subject: Re: Re-Vin Numbers - David Stokes

At 03:20 PM 3/31/98 EST, you wrote:
>Motorbooks International has a book called- Ford Pickup Red Book. The
>location of your Vin Number plate form a 1956 PU should be on the rear
face of
>the drivers door. Any stampings on any part of the sheet metal is only for
>when, where, and date the body parts were made. Most of the time these
>numbers are on the firewall, passenger side, in the engine compartment. I'm
>not aware of any other numbers stamped on the frame etc. having to due with
>the VIn, nor dose this book say anything other than about the motor.
>
>Good Luck
>Chief2658
>

My 54 has the vin stamped on the frame, pass side, down by the
radiator support. It was covered with with so much dirt, I did'nt
find it until it was sand blasted. You have to look hard.

Rich
54 F100

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 18:46:52 -0500
From: Thomas Teixeira
Subject: RE: NEW MOTOR START UP and cooling

As another data point, this happened to be posted on a Mustang mailing list:

>John had a similar problem with his 1970 Mach 1,
>also 351C equipped. I believe John found that his car
>needed a small restrictor plate that fits inside the
>thermostat housing to slow down the flow of water through
>the radiator.

I'm not sure that a 351 Cleveland and a Flathead have anything else in
common though (aside from being made by Ford)

Tom Teixeira mailto:tjt

world.std.com
94 Taurus SHO 5-speed NESHOC/SHO Registry
'66 Mustang convertible (200 cid auto) http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://world.std.com/~tjt
'35 Ford Pickup (flathead V8)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 19:41:09 EST
From: PhatStang
Subject: Can you read?

Can anyone read this message? If so respond. I think my thing might be
messe3d up.

Thanx,
Dan

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 20:11:35 EST
From: JRFiero
Subject: Re: Need Mid Fifties front shock mounts.

In a message dated 98-03-29 22:56:26 EST, you write:

47. >>

Well, I don't have them, but 55 is different from 56. 56s had a lot of little
differences from the 53-55 as well as the obvious cab differences, and this is
one of them. 53-55 front upper bracket is part # B4C 18035-A, 56 is B9TT
18035-A. No idea what the difference is, but I remember from buying parts
when I had my 56 that there was a difference.
What are you doing to your 47 which requires these parts?

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 20:04:23 -0500
From: Cathy Greenlaw
Subject: Re: Can you read?

Yes, I can read.

PhatStang wrote:

> Can anyone read this message? If so respond. I think my thing might be
> messe3d up.
>
> Thanx,
> Dan
> +-------------- Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1960 and Older --------------+
> | Send posts to fordtrucks

prodigy.com ( DAN LEE)
Subject: RE: Fuel Supply Problems

Joe,

In 1956 Fuel Supply to the pump was by atmospheric pressure. If you
disconnect the fuel pump and lower the tank outlet line below the
tank level gas should flow by gravity. If not then your tank is empty
or your line is blocked. When the pump is hooked up it will lower the
pressure in the line enough so that atmospheric pressure on the gas
in the tank will push the gas to the fuel pump height. This distance
is less than 30". How much depends on the pump. Look for a blocked
Vent on your tank. The vent is necessary to supply atmospheric
pressure to the contents. If you have a vent problem, it should work
for a while after you remove and replace the filler cap.

I hope this helps.

Dan Lee

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 21:20:57 EST
From: Flathead52
Subject: Re: lowered '52

I still need Help: if someone has this information I would really be Very
thankful....

Tom Grover
52 F-1 239 flathead dual 94's
and on the ground

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 21:18:19 -0500
From: Cathy Greenlaw
Subject: Re: more bolt on hp

jc & terry wrote:
. you have a good foundation. build on it. but justso you can't say i never told
ya, your still gonna be about 100 horses short of the "old red dog" and the
parts are close to identical. now let's see ifyou can figure out what i did
just little different.

Stock Ford heads are pretty much junk, which is why you have the 100Hp. If I
was going to build a Rat roaster or Mouse toaster, on the cheap, early 351
heads, clean up the exhaust port with my handy grinder, throw in some "ugh"
chevy size 1.90/1.65 valves, add just a little more cam lift to about .500. You
really need some flattop pistons to keep the compression honest at about 9.5 or
10:1. Still, the average Chevy guy just hunts around a swap meet and grabs a set
of 202 heads for the price of my new valves.
Close??
47 Fred

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 21:28:21 -0500
From: Cathy Greenlaw
Subject: Re: Fuel Supply Problem

FRD56F100 wrote:

> Hello everyone, I am currently having a problem with my 56 F100 and maybe
> somebody in the list can help me.
> My first problem is that the gas in the fuel tank just won't get to the
> carburator.

Check the pickup line inside the tank to make sure of two things, 1st, thats it's
in the fuel and not broken off, upside down or someting like that, and 2nd, that
some bugs or dirt hasn't clogged the pickup line. If you can't get at the pickup
without pulling the tank, try attaching some clean hose and blowing some air thru
it into the tank,while listening at the open filler for bubbling. Don't for
goodness sake suck on the line , and don't use full line pressure from an air
compressor. One of those "OSHA" pressure limiting air blow off guns work pretty
well, kep in mind if the line is clogged and blows clear, the gunk's in the tank
still.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 22:07:22 -0600
From: Rich Garber
Subject: Oil Bath air cleaners

Hello All,

Well the project is going once again. Motor is so clean you
could eat off it, which brings me to this question. Has anyone
converted an oilbath to a standard air filter? I have spent
months getting all that junk off and I don't feel right poring
oil into the air cleaner.

This is going back to orignal, so I need to use it. Will changing
it affect performance?

If someone has done this could you let me know how, what filter, etc.

Thanks

Rich
54 F100

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 21:58:55 -0600
From: Rich Garber
Subject: Re: Need Mid Fifties front shock mounts.

At 08:11 PM 3/31/98 EST, you wrote:
>In a message dated 98-03-29 22:56:26 EST, you write:
>
>
> 47. >>
>
>Well, I don't have them, but 55 is different from 56. 56s had a lot of
little
>differences from the 53-55 as well as the obvious cab differences, and
this is
>one of them. 53-55 front upper bracket is part # B4C 18035-A, 56 is B9TT
>18035-A. No idea what the difference is,

I think the eye is different. 53-55 had a stud mounted on the frame
the shock used an eye. 56 had a pin that went through the frame mount.
(it would be easier to draw a picture).

I think that either one would work.

Rich
54 F100

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 23:22:27 -0500
From: "Earl T. Ingram, III"
Subject: Cool Flatheads

Fellow truckers,
Boy did I start something. To begin with,I want to make it clear that I
am the elder of two Earls which operate from the same E-mail address. The
younger one has a degree in mechanical engineering and mathmatics. I ,on the
other hand, am a graduate of the school of Skinned Knuckles with a degree in
greasy fingernails and racing dirt.
Now down to buisness. I really didn't mean to start a war with the
advise on cooling a flathead. The suggestions I offered REALLY do work. I
have used them on a lot of engines both on the street and the race track.
You have to remember that the engine we are dealing with is a very old
design and sometimes modern idea just don't apply. Yes at is true that the
laws of thermodynamics still apply but in a different way. Engine and
radiator designs have changed tremendously in the last 45 years.
Don't take my word for wheather or not these methods work. Just ask one
of the old time dirt dobber race mechanics who used to run one of these
tough little mills. Sometimes you have to ignore "modern" technology.
Remember, From an engineering standpoint, the bumble bee can't fly. Trouble
is, he doesn't know it so he flys anyway. The same reasoning applies to
cooling a flattop.
Get rid of the blinders of the presant. Go outside of the envelope of
modern thinking. Sometimes old ideas do work.
Keep on truckin friends
Earl T Ingram III

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 23:59:38 EST
From: Fordf3
Subject: Re: Fuel Supply Problem

I had similar problem with my 48..Gas drew off the bottom of the tank.Raised
outlet with piece of 1/8" copper and have had no problems since.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 23:59:53 -0400
From: Ray Cardogno
Subject: Allen head bumper bolts

>From: "Paul T. Clegg"
>Subject: Re: 1948 F-1 Bumper Attachment Question
>
>I just bought a front bumper from Dennis Carpenter. It is perfect but I
>don't understand the hardware they sent with it. (This is the hardware
>that attaches the bumper to the small bracket on the lower surface and the
>bumper directly to the frame on the upper surface). It has round-head
>allen bolts with acorn nuts. My question is... which way do I install
>these bolts. Do the acorn nuts go on top? They would stick up nearly half
>and inch above the bumper. The round head allen end would be nearly flush
>if installed the opposite way. Any advice would be sincerely appreciated.
>Thanks, Paul Clegg, paulc

transera.com

My advice is to throw the allen bolts away. I use low profile (semi-flat)
bumper bolts with the stainless "skin" on them. I carefully grind the
square edges off the shoulder so they fit down in the holes and they look
mint. Then again the acorn nuts might give it an innovative look,
especially if you could find some little chrome chipmunks to attach to the
bumper also.

Ray C :-)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 00:03:15 -0400
From: Ray Cardogno
Subject: Touche'

Besides, who are you gonna believe, me or someone who doesn't know
>which way
> to spin an oil pump! ;-) ;-) ;-)
>
> Alec

Funny. Very funny. Thanks for the laugh.

Ray C

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 00:14:29 -0400
From: Ray Cardogno
Subject: Gas tank problem

>From: FRD56F100
>Subject: Fuel Supply Problem
>
>Hello everyone, I am currently having a problem with my 56 F100 and maybe
>somebody in the list can help me.
>My first problem is that the gas in the fuel tank just won't get to the
>carburator. I've replaced the complete fuel line from the gas tank to the
>carburator, replaced the fuel sender and the filter in it, and repaired a
>small gas tank leak with a loctite gas tank repair sealer. The gas tank is
>placed underneath the bed floor and is not the original tank. Also, the fuel
>sender assembly does not have a return line, the original tank did not have
>one either. The fuel pump is OK and the carburator filter is not clogged. I
>have driven the truck with a five gallon container full of fuel inside the cab
>with a hose connected to the fuel pump, the truck runs OK this way. The only
>thing left is replacing the fuel tank but I been having a hard time finding
>one locally. I just wish there was a way to solve this problem, is really....

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