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Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 22:47:44 -0700 (MST)
From: owner-fordtrucks-digest ListService.net (fordtrucks-digest)
To: fordtrucks-digest ListService.net
Subject: fordtrucks-digest V2 #73
Reply-To: fordtrucks ListService.net
Sender: owner-fordtrucks-digest ListService.net


fordtrucks-digest Wednesday, March 18 1998 Volume 02 : Number 073



=======================================================================
Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1960 And Older Trucks Digest
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=======================================================================
In this issue:

Re: 302 and F/I ["Chris Hedemark" ]
Re: liters ["Chris Hedemark" ]
Re: 1939 Production Numbers [Ken Payne ]
RE: IFS for bigger trucks ["Goodwrench" ]
Metal Cleaning [Rich Garber ]
RE: Metal Cleaning ["Goodwrench" ]
FW: 302 and F/I ["Goodwrench" ]
Re: Metal Cleaning [JStoneF100 ]
RE: Metal Cleaning [Alec Fernandez ]
Fuel Injection (billjhs bellatlantic.net) [RJC988 ]
Re: Fuel Injection (billjhs bellatlantic.net) [JStoneF100
AOD not shifting [KLaff61624 ]
ADMIN: Seeking assistance [Ken Payne ]
more on AOD'S [KLaff61624 ]
FW: engine swapping ["Neal B. Forbes" ]
Re: FW: engine swapping [AZYacht ]
Posters of 53-56 F-100's ["Abram H. Stauffer"
tranny won't shift [jc & terry ]
Re: body color grilles [Ray Cardogno ]
ifs [jc & terry ]
big sixers [jc & terry ]

=======================================================================

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 07:19:26 -0500
From: "Chris Hedemark"
Subject: Re: 302 and F/I

>Are you sure of the year on that Cougar? I thought that fuel injection
>started on the 86 model.


I had an 81 and it was most certainly carb'd. *HOWEVER* for a few years in
between that and fullblown multiport fuel injection, they had a poor man's
fuel injection with a hybridized carb/throttle body and I beleive the
injectors were in the carb. Intake manifold was more like a standard carb'd
engine. I had this setup in a 1985 Ford LTD II station wagon and yes, it
does run a lot smoother than the carb'd cars. It's not easy to hot rod
these but if you just want it as-is for a daily driver than this is fine.

If you *do* want to hot rod the engine, check out
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://teleteam.net/~dennis/bigdaddy.html and read about this sleeper baby
LTD. He tried doing it with CFI and it just didn't work so he finally
ditched it and dropped a more conventional carb on it. Unfortunately the
guy is only doing something like 225 horsepower with all the money he put
into it (I think it started somewhere around 160) but you might get some
ideas on what worked and what didn't work from his results. Timeslips and
dyno charts are given.

Chris Hedemark
Yonder Way
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.yonderway.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 07:23:58 -0500
From: "Chris Hedemark"
Subject: Re: liters

>thanx for getting me strait gary. i flunked metric class but i think it was
>because the didn't sell beer in liters. the only way i know how to figure
>them was the 66 ford 7liter was a 428 and i divide by that then round to
the
>nearest engine size i've heard of. this is what's known as pre-calculator
or
>napkin math. as i said the 60 i know with the 300 six is a hog. daily
driver
>and excellent workhorse. he says if he babies it he can get 17mpg but he
>never does that. he did add a 4speed minus the granny and, if i remember,
it
>has 4:11 nine inch. not a quarter miler but quick on red lights. that big
>six is impressive and VERY viable. let us know how you make out.


I will concur with this. I've had the 300 I6 in a couple of trucks. Out of
the light, if you can get traction, you can get the jump on a lot of
so-called muscle cars. After that forget it though because the power curve
just drops off quickly. I didn't much like it on the highway because of the
lack of HP at 65MPH but around town you would think it was a big V8 under
the hood from all the power off idle.

4.11:1 gears would be, IMHO, a "Bad Thing" for this engine. If you ever
plan on driving on the highway that is. WAAAAAY too deep.

Chris Hedemark
Yonder Way
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.yonderway.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 09:44:44 -0500
From: Ken Payne
Subject: Re: 1939 Production Numbers

At 10:11 PM 3/17/98 -0600, you wrote:
>
>
>I am the new owner of a 1939 Ford 1/2 ton Stake Bed Pickup. I understand
>the production numbers were rather low on this particular configuration.
>
>Does anyone know how many of these might have been produced? Or can someone
>give me some direction on doing the research myself?
>
>This is my first posting so please be easy on me. :>)
>Wes Wigginton

- -snip-

Wes,

Try emailing Ford at cacinfo ford.com. They may or may not be
able to help you. They used to provide build sheets for some
trucks but have discontinued that because of the enormous number
of requests. Anyways, they've always responded to me, even if
they didn't have an answer. If they can't help, let me know
and I'll see what I can dig up.

Ken Payne

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 08:46:44 -0600
From: "Goodwrench"
Subject: RE: IFS for bigger trucks

I've been going through all my back issues of Truck and Rod magazines
gathering data on the ifs options. I haven't seen anything specifically
produced for the heavier haulers.
Fat Fendered Street Rods (909) 357-2700 makes kits to widen Mustang II
rack & pinion steering, but with a one ton truck you want more beef than
even a modified Mustang II.
In Truckin' Classic Trucks 8/94 p.92 is a rodded '34 Chevy one ton.
This guy supposedly used the front and rear suspension from a modern
Chevy dually. They don't go into any of the specifics of the
installation. I think you just need to start looking at the front
suspensions under the modern One ton pickups and take some measurements.
I will keep looking for ifs options for the heavier trucks, as I also
have a '34 Ford dumptruck and a '46 Ford ton and half flatbed.

Jim Pfrommer
Central Texas
goodwrench easy.com
Check out Goodwrench's CyberRanch:
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.easy.com/goodwrench/

- -----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of Ben Thompson
Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 1998 2:13 PM
Subject: IFS for bigger trucks


I've been reading all the recent posts regarding IFS with increasing
interest. I have a 1956 f350 9-ft express sitting in my driveway
waiting for me to get around to reinstalling my newly-rebuilt 292. So
naturally I'm wondering, "do any or all of these IFS solutions apply
to a bigger, heavier truck?

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 11:17:11 -0600
From: Rich Garber
Subject: Metal Cleaning

Hello All,

I'm at the point that I need to start thinking about bodywork.
The frame and motor are done, not to pat myself on the back, but,
it looks Great. So now comes the cab. Has anyone had a cab treated
with chemicals? These cabs have alot of places you just can't reach.
Since I'm spending all kinds of money anyway, I want it to last.

What are the pros and cons of this process? How much is it going to cost?
Where can I have it done (close to minn/st paul MN). Is there other ways
to stop rust in hidden spots or coat the metal (window posts, etc.).

Thanks,

Rich
54 F100

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 12:18:27 -0600
From: "Goodwrench"
Subject: RE: Metal Cleaning

My understanding of the cons of the dipping method of paint and rust
removal if is not all of the chemicals are completely rinsed from the
deeper places where panels come together. There are reports of this
stuff seeping out and ruining paint jobs years later. Still, I think if
the company is experienced with truck cabs and will take the time to
rinse carefully, it could be a great way to go. That is, if there is a
shop near you.
The only other good alternative is blasting with walnut hulls or
plastic media. It's not real fun to do on the inside of the cab, but at
least it's not very dusty. I think the choice would come down to which
facility is located near you.
In either case, make sure you get a good coat of epoxy primer on the
bare metal very quickly.

Jim
goodwrench easy.com
Check out Goodwrench's CyberRanch:
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.easy.com/goodwrench/


- -----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of Rich Garber
Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 1998 11:17 AM
Subject: Metal Cleaning

I'm at the point that I need to start thinking about bodywork.
The frame and motor are done, not to pat myself on the back, but,
it looks Great. So now comes the cab. Has anyone had a cab treated
with chemicals? These cabs have alot of places you just can't reach.
Since I'm spending all kinds of money anyway, I want it to last.

What are the pros and cons of this process? How much is it going to
cost?
Where can I have it done (close to minn/st paul MN). Is there other ways
to stop rust in hidden spots or coat the metal (window posts, etc.).

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 12:24:42 -0600
From: "Goodwrench"
Subject: FW: 302 and F/I

Bill,
Retaining the EFI and using EAOD transmissions is really in the future
of rodding. The good balance of performance and economy as well as
decreased emissions makes the difficulties in these swaps well worth the
trouble. The Probst book sounds like an excellent reference. Most of
the magazines are recommending that folks use a 3rd party wiring harness
for the EFI. It would really be great if you had time to write all that
you could in regard to using the original wiring harness for the EFI. I
would be happy to post that information on my web page.

Having been a long time diehard 4-speed dude, I don't know much about
the AOD transmissions yet. It would seem worthwhile to get hold of a
service manual for your donor car. Then you could check the wiring
diagrams and any cables that hook up to the trans. It is my
understanding that the TH700R-4 Chevy trans uses both electrical
connections and a Throttle Valve cable. I don't if the Ford AOD is the
same way.

Two places that you might be able to check with on your trans shifting
problem would be:
Street & Performance (501) 394-5711
Ford Motorsport SVO Performance Equipment (313) 337-1356

Both of these places sell wiring harness and are experienced with the
later model Ford swaps.

Jim Pfrommer
goodwrench easy.com
Check out Goodwrench's CyberRanch:
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.easy.com/goodwrench/

- -----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of billjhs
Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 1998 9:24 PM
Subject: 302 and F/I


I just got finished putting a 1983 Mercury Cougar 302 with F/I in my
1951 F-1. It wasn't as easy as everyone says but it was by no means very
difficult either, the results are also very gratifying. I would also
suggest the book by Probst called Ford fuel injection and electronic
engine control. It is very helpful when it comes to figuring out a
problem when it arises. And don't worry about the wiring and
stuff. All you have to do is take the computer and its harness, that
takes care of all the wiring for the fuel injection. All you really have
to do is tie that harness into your trucks harness for the starter and
sending some sigs to the computer, all very easy.

The only problem I am having now is that my AOD won't shift out of 1'st
gear, anybody got any suggestions. (It hasn't worked since I put it in
the truck)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 13:50:56 EST
From: JStoneF100
Subject: Re: Metal Cleaning

I called a company that advertises in Hemmings about having my 59 dipped
(body parts) front clip cab w/doors and bed they said depending on how bad it
was as far as old paint and rust it would be at worst 700-1000 This may sound
like a lot but considering time and work saved it's not bad.They leave it the
tank for about a week or less if it's not to bad. when it comes out it'll be
ready for the primer.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 15:16:20 -0500
From: Alec Fernandez
Subject: RE: Metal Cleaning

I would do a little more background checking before I had my cab dipped. I
was going to do this
And then I spoke with a guy who restores old cars for a living (had a really
nice shop). He claimed
That the chemical residue gets stuck anywhere there is a panel that's folded
back on itself, (like where
The door skin joins the door frame) and that over time this will eat away at
the paint right at that
Seam. I don't have any experience with this first hand so I don't know
whether it's even true. Plus
This was 8 years ago so maybe the process is different now but I'd sure ask
about it.

Alec

-----Original Message-----
From: JStoneF100 [SMTP:JStoneF100 aol.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 1998 1:51 PM
To: fordtrucks ListService.net
Cc: JStoneF100 aol.com
Subject: Re: Metal Cleaning

I called a company that advertises in Hemmings about having my 59
dipped
(body parts) front clip cab w/doors and bed they said depending on
how bad it
was as far as old paint and rust it would be at worst 700-1000 This
may sound
like a lot but considering time and work saved it's not bad.They
leave it the
tank for about a week or less if it's not to bad. when it comes out
it'll be
ready for the primer.
+-------------- Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1960 and Older
- --------------+
| Send posts to fordtrucks listservice.net, removal form on the web
|
| site.
|
+---------- Visit Our Web Site: http://www.ford-trucks.com/
- ----------+

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 18:56:00 EST
From: RJC988
Subject: Fuel Injection (billjhs bellatlantic.net)

Bill,

You say that installing the FI out of a Cougar was not any problem? What year
Cougar? I thought it was the early 90's that the 5.0 showed up in T'birds and
Cougs. Of course in 83 the cougars were still large vehicles. Did you use an
aftermarket wiring harness or the harness on the Cougar? I was told (by
Painless Wiring, eg. wiring sales!) that using an old harness is asking for
trouble. Of course that might be why you AOD won't shift.

If nobody thinks that parts from a 10 - 15 year old vehicle is a problem then
buying a donor vehicle is a great advantage. I have seen an 88 Mustang conv.
w/5.0 and auto for about $2500.00. Disc brakes, V8, AOD, fuel tank, air cond.,
and maybe even aluminium wheels!!!! What do you guys think?

Glenn in Memphis (2 weeks and counting!)
'57 F-100 (called "Soapy"?)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 19:02:18 EST
From: JStoneF100
Subject: Re: Fuel Injection (billjhs bellatlantic.net)

Good plan find a mashed 'stang real cheap

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 21:28:50 EST
From: KLaff61624
Subject: AOD not shifting

The throttle value cable is no working are is badly out of adjustment. Check
manual for how to adjust they are different depending on the model car and
year, in a repair manual.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 22:05:38 -0500
From: Ken Payne
Subject: ADMIN: Seeking assistance

I need help from some list members in order to save myself
(and others) an enormous amount of time. The problem is
Microsoft email packages. They insist on sending W*NMAIL.DAT
and M*ME attachments (can't spell them because the server
will bounce them).

I know from experience that many have had this problem and
solved it. If you're using a Microsoft package and can
successfully post to the lists, please let me know what
your settings are. This will allow all list members to
participate in the discussions. I will post these settings
in the new "Instruction Guide" I'm putting together for
list usage.

Email me at: kpayne mindspring.com

Thanks,
Ken Payne
Admin, Ford Truck Enthusiasts
http://www.ford-trucks.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 22:07:49 EST
From: KLaff61624
Subject: more on AOD'S

83 model AOD's do not have any type of electronic valves and does not depend
on any electronics for shifting period. The EAOD does
(E=electronic,A=automatic,and OD=overdrive) depend on the computer. AOD's
shift entirely on throttle valve position and hydraulic pressure inside the
transimission. They have either a throttle valve cable or throttle valve rod
that looks like a kickdown rod, and it MUST be installed are your
transimission will not shift. It is very important that the cable or rod be
adjusted properly are you will overheat the transmission( I learned the hard
way ). If anyone wants to use a AOD on a carburater setup then they must
make a bracket for the carb. and the transmission, that will move the same
corresponding amounts as the factory designed( very important ). There is a
company that makes a cable setup and brackets for any carb. (Lokair I think )
but you still have to modify the carb bracket (they provide the directions).
I foundly got smart and bought it from them and it works great. If you use the
Ford throttle body or carb. that came with a motor equiped with a AOD, then
all you need to do is be sure that you have it properly adjusted, as for the
EAOD I know nothing except that it shifts by electronic valves and the
computer and that it is suppose to be better than the AOD but much much harder
to modify. So if you use a EAOD make sure that everything is stock from the
donor vehicle (engine,transimission, and computer). Good Luck Ken
L.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 22:24:43 -0500
From: "Neal B. Forbes"
Subject: FW: engine swapping

- ----------
From: Neal B. Forbes[SMTP:jawbreaker harborcom.net]
Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 1998 8:30 AM
To: 'fordtrucks ListService.net'
Subject: engine swapping

Hello all you trukkies. Just curious about where all these beautifully
simple, uncluttered, hard-as-nails old engines are going when swapped out.
Certainly they are worth more than the value of the iron to a scrapper! I
am an old-fert and relive my boyhood thru my Y-block. (Glorious days!)
Bottom end and head overhaul parts are everywhere, even gasket sets are
reproduced, but nobody makes CASTINGS anymore. Or cams. You can't grind a
cam .030 under and use it again! I wonder if anybody knows of an engine
graveyard that has manifolds and heads and blocks and maybe even oil pans.
Do you know how hard it is to find an oil pan for a 292?? Swap meet parts
are getting fewer and fewer precisely because, IMHO, we are all getting
lazy or scroogey about recycling these great old motors for the hobby. And
don't flame me about obsolete because that's not the point. Thanks for
letting me vent--I'm not angry, just saddened. ) -`:

Neal Forbes 54 F-100

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 22:55:49 EST
From: AZYacht
Subject: Re: FW: engine swapping

Neal, I have a 47 6 cyl. (the undesireable flattie) 98% complete and I cant
give the thing away on the internet.
I hear your position but some of the people that want this stuff are on the
other end of the country from the goods. A true logistics prob. If anyone
wants my motor COME get it!!!
Thanks GaryO.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 23:09:30 -0500
From: "Abram H. Stauffer"
Subject: Posters of 53-56 F-100's

When I had my '55 and '57 Chevy's I belonged to the Classic Chevy Club,
International. At that time, late 70's, I bought from CCCI full color
posters of the different models of cars Chevy made, ie: Bel Air, 210,
110, hardtop, sedan,etc. I bought 3, one each for '55, '56, '57. While I
no longer have my Chevy's ('57 was sold when I got a teaching job and
couldn't afford the maintenance, the '55 was sold to buy my wife to be
an engagement ring!) I still have the posters hanging in my garage. Now
my '54 F-100 sits in the garage awaiting restoration as our Voyager sits
in the rain and snow! Is there anyone out there that sells reproduced
pictures or posters of these F-100. I know Mid-Fifties sells some stuff
but it is all artwork not actual photos. Any leads out there or is this
something or is this something the Ford Enthusiasts Group could
undertake?

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 21:07:22 -0800
From: jc & terry
Subject: tranny won't shift

The only problem I am having now is that my AOD won't shift out of 1'st
gear, anybody got any suggestions. (It hasn't worked since I put it in
the truck)

See ya's
Bill
1951 f-1

first question is did it shift before when it was in the donor car? if it
did, i would suspect the wiring harness. it runs off the engine rpm. if you
are not sure, i would have a tranny shop troubleshoot it. tell youi what's
wrong, what it cost to fix. then you can make an informed decision. try a
shop that is not the big chainstore for the best price. also most should
charge no more than $50-70 and are required to put the tranny back as they
found it if you choose not to have work done.
BTW i like the idea about a cougardoner car. i bet that's not all you could
use.

T-bird Terry

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 00:16:37 -0400
From: Ray Cardogno
Subject: Re: body color grilles

I've
seen ads for the bigger trucks with body color grills, but haven't been able
to confirm that. Was chrome ever available from Ford?>

My 1954 C-600 Cabover has a blue grille, just like the body. Seems
original. Would rather have chrome though :^)>

Ray C

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 21:30:34 -0800
From: jc & terry
Subject: ifs

I've been reading all the recent posts regarding IFS with increasing
interest. I have a 1956 f350 9-ft express sitting in my driveway
waiting for me to get around to reinstalling my newly-rebuilt 292. So
naturally I'm wondering, "do any or all of these IFS solutions apply
to a bigger, heavier truck?

you bet they do. i have a friend that made a bitchen hauler out of a cherry
53 ton and a half. any of the modern day bigger trucks(3/4 and 1 or bigger)
are good donors. he put a lincoln 460, c-6 and powerdisc on it also. i used
a 1/2 ton truck i fs on my 58 because i wanted something a little sturdier
than a car front group. they may be strong but they don't have the beef of
my truck suspension. trucks ride like cars now anyway. the only limits you
have are the ones you put on yourself. keep us informed.
T-brid Terry

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 21:51:36 -0800
From: jc & terry
Subject: big sixers

i don't know where they came from ray but i'll tell you they are brutes. i
guess it is a work truck engine. someone told me they still make it or maybe
a version anyway. from the old days of hotrodding we always had some
streched out 6's. made with lots of iron for easy overbore and running 3
offenhauser 2 barrels. but this was when you built stuff. guys don't make
their own manifolds anymore. too easy to buy. and you have to remember that
in late 50 there were very few v-8 motors in scrap yards. even less money....


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