fordtrucks-digest Saturday, March 7 1998 Volume 02 : Number 061



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Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1960 And Older Trucks Digest
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In this issue:

What NOT to Use to Clean That Gas Tank! ["Don & Teresa Neighbors"
Re: IFS swaps for early pickups [JStoneF100 ]
Re: Oil for flathead [Dan Wentz ]
Re: Oil for flathead [Ken Payne ]
Flathead V-8 runs hot ["davet" ]
Re: Flathead V-8 runs hot ["Chris Hedemark" ]
Re: Flathead V-8 runs hot [JRFiero ]
Funky gas tanks ["Paul G." ]
list [KLaff61624 ]
Idea for the list [Scott ]
Re: Idea for the list [Ken Payne ]
little or no character [Ray Cardogno ]
Oil sludge [Ray Cardogno ]

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Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 06:32:26 -0500
From: "Don & Teresa Neighbors"
Subject: What NOT to Use to Clean That Gas Tank!

I have long been a fan of a product called "B12 Chemtool" to maintain a
clean carburetor and fuel system. However, it worked so well getting the
grunge loose in a fuel tank that had been sitting merely 2 years that the
fuel pickup line became hopelessly clogged. When I pulled the gas tank and
removed the fuel sender I found about half an inch of molasses-colored
chunks of varnish in the bottom of the tank.
A friend of mine who is a mechanic suggests using gravel to loosen up the
crud, as opposed to nuts and bolts. I'd suggest running some sort of
solvent in the fuel after the gravel or nuts and bolts treatment, but do it
after that first post-cleaning fuel filter! Otherwise you'll be like me, 5
miles from work with the hood up! A solvent sounds like a quick fix, and
it's okay if the tank only has a little varnish in it. However, solvents
sometimes work a lot better than you expect!

Don Neighbors
'54 F250 Named Grover

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Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 14:14:52 EST
From: JStoneF100
Subject: Re: IFS swaps for early pickups

I am interested in doing a Volarie Swap. What is the best year(s) Volarie to
use and are there any templates available to ensure proper notching? Any
comments would be greatly appreciated.

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Date: Fri, 06 Mar 1998 11:34:57 -0800
From: Dan Wentz
Subject: Re: Oil for flathead

> I realize that oil has been discussed in the past however if someone =
>could help me it would be appreciated. What type of oil should I be =
>using in my 47 flathead? Please excuse the stupid question but this is =
>my 1st truck.

I've been told that you shouldn't run multi-viscosity or detergent oils in
a flathead. When the engines were built they didn't have either of these,
so maybe that's why people say that--or maybe there's a good reason. I
imagine detergents could do bad things with all the sludge that's likely to
be in those old engines. Anyway, I used to use straight 30 weight oil in
my flathead.

Also can I run radial tires on it or do I need to use =
>bias ply (It is all original). Thanks very much.

Your butt will thank you if you run radials--they're much softer. But if
you want a completely original truck then you'd have to stick to bias ply.

~Dan

1992 Ford Mustang LX
1950 Ford F1, 351C-2V (starting to get fun again)
Check out my F1 page: http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.GeoCities.com/MotorCity/3623

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 06 Mar 1998 15:24:36 -0500
From: Ken Payne
Subject: Re: Oil for flathead

At 11:34 AM 3/6/98 -0800, you wrote:
>> I realize that oil has been discussed in the past however if someone =
>>could help me it would be appreciated. What type of oil should I be =
>>using in my 47 flathead? Please excuse the stupid question but this is =
>>my 1st truck.
>
>I've been told that you shouldn't run multi-viscosity or detergent oils in
>a flathead. When the engines were built they didn't have either of these,
>so maybe that's why people say that--or maybe there's a good reason. I
>imagine detergents could do bad things with all the sludge that's likely to
>be in those old engines. Anyway, I used to use straight 30 weight oil in
>my flathead.

Classic Auto Restorer recently covered this. It is perfectly okay (and
preferred) to use multi-visocity and detergent oils after a rebuild.
Don't use them in engines that haven't been rebuilt. The reason is that
non-detergent oil builds up on the piston walls, valve seal, etc. Its
very hard stuff. Detergent oil disolves this stuff and an engine that
worked perfectly well suddenly burns oil and has compression problems.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 16:43:28 -0600
From: "davet"
Subject: Flathead V-8 runs hot

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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I have a 1952 Ford F-1 with a 239 flathead V-8 that runs hot even =
after I worked over the cooling system. It does not have a fan shroud =
on the radiator and I am not sure if it is supposed to or not?

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      I =
have a 1952=20
Ford F-1 with a 239 flathead V-8 that runs hot even after I worked over =
the=20
cooling system.  It does not have a fan shroud on the radiator and =
I am not=20
sure if it is supposed to or not?

- ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BD491E.FD5FC340--

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Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 18:20:56 -0500
From: "Chris Hedemark"
Subject: Re: Flathead V-8 runs hot

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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Are you going for an accurate restoration or a functional driver? If =
the former, I cannot comment. However if you don't care if something is =
original or not then a fan shroud will *absolutely* help cool the truck. =
Also, add a bottle of Redline Water Wetter (you can get it at most auto =
parts stores) to the coolant to bring it down at least 10', if not 15'. =
If the combination of these two things doesn't get your engine running =
cool, then I would suspect trouble and start troubleshooting.

Chris Hedemark
Yonder Way
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.yonderway.com
-----Original Message-----
From: davet
To: fordtrucks ListService.net
Date: Friday, March 06, 1998 5:51 PM
Subject: Flathead V-8 runs hot
=20
=20
I have a 1952 Ford F-1 with a 239 flathead V-8 that runs hot =
even after I worked over the cooling system. It does not have a fan =
shroud on the radiator and I am not sure if it is supposed to or not?

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charset="iso-8859-1"
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http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
HTML//EN">



Are you going for an accurate =
restoration=20
or a functional driver?  If the former, I cannot comment.  =
However if=20
you don't care if something is original or not then a fan shroud will=20
*absolutely* help cool the truck.  Also, add a bottle of Redline =
Water=20
Wetter (you can get it at most auto parts stores) to the coolant to =
bring it=20
down at least 10', if not 15'.  If the combination of these two =
things=20
doesn't get your engine running cool, then I would suspect trouble and =
start=20
troubleshooting.
Chris HedemarkYonder =
Way
href=3D"http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.yonderway.com">http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.yonderway.com
V>

style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 solid 2px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-LEFT: =
5px">
-----Original =
Message-----From:=20
davet <
=
href=3D"mailto:FENDERMAN prodigy.net">FENDERMAN prodigy.net>
>To:=20

=
href=3D"mailto:fordtrucks ListService.net">fordtrucks ListService.net=
=20
<
=
href=3D"mailto:fordtrucks ListService.net">fordtrucks ListService.net=
>Date:=20
Friday, March 06, 1998 5:51 PMSubject: Flathead V-8 =
runs=20
hot
      I =
have a 1952=20
Ford F-1 with a 239 flathead V-8 that runs hot even after I worked =
over the=20
cooling system.  It does not have a fan shroud on the radiator =
and I am=20
not sure if it is supposed to or =
not?

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Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 19:20:34 EST
From: JRFiero
Subject: Re: Flathead V-8 runs hot

In a message dated 98-03-06 17:56:41 EST, you write:


after I worked over the cooling system. It does not have a fan shroud on the
radiator and I am not sure if it is supposed to or not?
>>

Age old flathead problem, with lots of possible answers.
First, yes, its supposed to have a fan shroud, and a little belly pan, for
want of a better term, which attaches under the frame and runs about a foot
back, with a hole for the draft tube. Also be sure the hood seal is mostly
intact where it is supposed to seal to the radiator. If you don't have a
fresh air heater, the opening above the grill on right side should have the
blocking plate installed. The purpose of the seal and the blocking plate is
to get all that high pressure air when you're moving to go through the
radiator, not around it. The little belly pan keeps stuff off the front of
the motor, and its supposed to create at least the semblance of a relative
vacuum behind the radiator. It also keeps the cool air from coming up and
messing around in the fan vortex, like the shroud does. The shroud makes all
the difference in the world at idle while standing still - the rest of the
parts kick in while you're moving along. Where can you get any of this stuff?
The hood seal is available aftermarket - everything else, as far as I know,
you're on your own. Because the shroud has to clear the two bottom hoses, it
pretty much has to come from a flathead, its tough to adapt anything else.
All that said, I don't yet have a shroud on my 51 flathead, or the heater
blocking plate, either, and it doesn't overheat. Go figure.
Not to be insulting, but how do you know it's overheating? Ford changed the
thermostat and temperature sending unit heat ranges late 50 or so (not sure of
that year) and people have mixed and matched them every since, with varying
results. One of them is variable, the other just detects boiling. Mine always
reads hot, but its not. Even in 20degree weather, once it gets up to temp,
the gauge would make you think its hot, but the temp is actually right where
its supposed to be (180 'stats in mine). If they're really hot, they're a
bear to start, they start running rough, and then you get vapor lock! Not to
mention boiling over and cracking.
Back to the problem. We've covered airflow - its essential. Unique to
Henry's flathead V8 is the amount of exhaust passage in the engine. A
restricted exhaust system causes more of the exhaust heat to be retained by
the block, overtaxing the cooling system.
Fan belt adjustment. Or more accurately, water pump/generator belt
adjustment. The belt doesn't contact the water pumps for much of their
circumference, so it's critical that it not slip. The belts need to be in
good condition, and you need to go through the whole process of adjusting the
belts correctly. The fan and it's belt are important, too, but the fan belt
contacts ~180 degrees of the crank and fan pulleys, so it's less likely to be
a culprit.
Several posts in the past, as well as a response to yours, mention Red Line
Water Wetter. Don't know, maybe it'll help.
Some ol' farts say the problem with flatheads is too much water flow. There
has also been spirited discussion on the newer truck list about this. I don't
believe it - if the thermostats are installed and doing their job, they should
regulate flow. I replaced my 'corrugated' top hoses with the proper pipes and
hoses. Don't know if that would affect cooling, but it should allow the
coolant to flow better to the top of the radiator.
Then there's the condition of the block. You said you went through the
cooling system, but if your block is full of scale, or covered with oil from
the ubiquitous flathead cracks,so it can't transfer the heat, that'll screw up
the cooling.
If I remember the 52 had 2 pound radiator caps, maybe a little more. Don't
try sticking a higher pressure cap on it, even if you can find them - you'll
pop the radiator for sure.
Used to be you could just run it 'til it blew, 'cause they were a dime a
dozen. Not the case anymore. If your block isn't already cracked in one or
more places, you need to try hard to solve this problem. Be sure what the
temperature really is, then go down the checklist. Sending units are readily
available, but they're usually not distinguished by temperature range.
There's a guy who makes new ones - is it Carolina Classics? Somebody help me
out here.
Good luck.
Jonas
'51 F1R1

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 06 Mar 1998 19:20:25 -0500
From: "Paul G."
Subject: Funky gas tanks

I cleaned my 55 panel tank (which had gas sitting half full in it since
72) with the 3 part POR-15 etc. treatment from Sacremento Vintage and it
worked perfect.
I also removed the long metal feed tube which runs, of course, to the
fuel pump and cleaned it too.
I hooked this up with just the standard Ford gas filter and, having
driven around since August, have had no problems at all.
Of course, it cost approx. $40., but I would do it again.
My tank was in excellent condition, but this kit will even fill holes up
to, if I recall, 1/8 inch.
Paul G.

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Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 20:18:12 EST
From: KLaff61624
Subject: list

list

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Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 17:23:34 -0800 (PST)
From: Scott
Subject: Idea for the list

I was thinking that it might be a good idea to have what truck(s) the
members of ford-trucks have. This could be on the main page and this
way you could have an idea of what everyone drives. Just an idea
though. The second thing that I was thinking is that when Ken gets
the personal web pages going, I would like to voulenteer my time to
help people with creating web pages. For those who have limited
computer skills I would do their page for them. I know that there are
many great trucks out there and I, as well as people interested in
them, would love to see them on the web.
Scott
==


1952 Ford Pickup
Please take a look at my 1952 Ford Pickup Page:
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Downs/9731/
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?

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Date: Fri, 06 Mar 1998 21:35:14 -0500
From: Ken Payne
Subject: Re: Idea for the list

At 05:23 PM 3/6/98 -0800, you wrote:
>I was thinking that it might be a good idea to have what truck(s) the
>members of ford-trucks have. This could be on the main page and this
>way you could have an idea of what everyone drives. Just an idea
>though. The second thing that I was thinking is that when Ken gets
>the personal web pages going, I would like to voulenteer my time to
>help people with creating web pages. For those who have limited
>computer skills I would do their page for them. I know that there are
>many great trucks out there and I, as well as people interested in
>them, would love to see them on the web.
>Scott
>==

Almost have the personal web space working. The web access,
edit, delete, etc. is "almost" working. As to the trucks
we drive, there is a user survey on the web site. It graphs
all kinds of things about us.

Ken Payne

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 02:02:54 -0400
From: Ray Cardogno
Subject: little or no character

>Howdy folks,
>
>I just signed onto the list. I signed up because I need to get a truck
>soon, and I don't want it to be one of the trucks made between like 1972 and
>1996 that has little or no character.

Can't beat the 53-56 Fords

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 7 Mar 1998 02:05:01 -0400
From: Ray Cardogno
Subject: Oil sludge

If your engine has always had non-detergent oil, then its probably
>full of sludge, which the introduction of detergent oil can set free, clogging
>various things

I was a dumb kid about 20 years ago and put 2 quarts instead of the 1 quart
of recommended engine sludge cleaner into my 1941 engine with only 60K mi.
The engine ran clean when I began this treatment. Instead of letting it run....


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