fordtrucks-digest Monday, March 2 1998 Volume 02 : Number 057



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Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1960 And Older Trucks Digest
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In this issue:

Re: Truck retirement villas, information? ["Chris Hedemark"
derusting ["Jim Shedlauskas" ]
RE: Derusting -chemical, electrolysis ["Goodwrench" ]
RE: 7.3L Diesel Engine and cavitation ["Goodwrench" ]
Rotten gas tank [Wesley Ashworth ]
Re: Rotten gas tank [Robert Hill ]
Re: Truck retirement villas, information? ["KENNETH D MARTY"
Naming things... ["Paul G." ]
Re: Naming things... ["Chris Hedemark" ]
More answers to Chris [RJC988 ]
Brian and his crew! [RJC988 ]
Re: More answers to Chris ["Chris Hedemark" ]
A few corrections [Rich Garber ]
Chevy Definitions [Ken Payne ]
Re: More answers to Chris [JRFiero ]
Power Steering Brackets [FRD56F100 ]
'51 vs. '52 ["Chris Hedemark" ]
Re: '51 vs. '52 [Scott ]
messages [jc & terry ]

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Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 06:32:54 -0500
From: "Chris Hedemark"
Subject: Re: Truck retirement villas, information?

>I used to live in the South Raleigh area (I'm in Atlanta now), and I can
>tell you that there are several salvage yards for you to look in for old

[snip]

Jay you just saved me a lot of legwork!!!! Thank you very much for passing
this along!

>By the way, There's a shop in Durham that deals just in old F-100 parts.
>I don't remember the name of the place, but I do know they are on Greer
>St. in Durham. You may want to that a drive over there!


Thats only like 15 minutes away. I seem to remember seeing a listing for a
shop called "Carolina Classics" but didn't know that they specialized in
Ford Trucks. Now I definitely have to get over there. :-)

Thanks again,
Chris Hedemark
Yonder Way
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.yonderway.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 07:29:44 -0600
From: "Jim Shedlauskas"
Subject: derusting

I've tried the electrolysis mentioned on the home page you listed, it works
very well. I used a 12V battery charger for my power supply and washing
soda for the elctrolyte. I havn't tried baking soda, but I've heard it
doesn't work nearly as well. My experience has been with rusty old tools,
but I'm going to try truck parts soon!

Anyone know where I can get vent window frames for my '49 F-4? I can find
seals and glass, but no frames.

Jim

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 08:29:31 -0600
From: "Goodwrench"
Subject: RE: Derusting -chemical, electrolysis

To All,
The Stationary Engine list carried what looks to be a good summary of
removing rust by the electrolysis method recently. I will reproduce what
was said below:
It consists of one man's summary and another's additional comments.
I haven't tried it yet, but I plan to. Just this week, I bought a
gallon of the Naval jelly type rust remover. So far I have only tried
it on striped front fender of my 1941 half ton. I will also be trying
it where the rear of the X member attaches to the frame. This is area
that commonly accumulates rust, and it can't be fit into an electrolyte
bath.

>> Time to respond to the items about electrolysis "causing pits" and
acid
>> treatments. Acid will remove rust (and iron) and leaves a
characteristic
>> "pickled" look. For antique tools the value is essentially destroyed.
>> Electrolytic cleaning, done right, is by far the best technique,
removing
>> no sound metal and leaving an attractive surface, especially on tools
>> that have been heavily rusted.
>>
>> Electrolysis is a standard technique in the artifact restoration
business.
>> I wrote this up for the Chronicle of the Early American Industries
>> Association a few years back. Most of the tool collectors around here
use
>> it: A plastic tub; a stainless steel or iron electrode, water and
washing
>> soda (NOT baking soda!!) and a battery charger. About a tablespoon of
soda

I use TSP or tri sodium phosphate; available at hardware stores. 12
volts
works OK.

>> to a gallon of water. The iron electrode works best if it surrounds
the
>> object to be cleaned, since the cleaning is "line of sight" to a
certain
>> extent. The iron electrode will be eaten away. SOME stainless steels
will
>> work fine and not be eroded. The electrode is connected to the
positive
>> (red) terminal and the object to the negative. Submerge the object,
>> making

Stick with good old iron sheet for electrode. If you use Stainless,
you'll
end up with a solution with chrome in it which is bad for the
environment
(and I think Al Gore is the largest turd in the whole bowl) ! At least
the
TSP and iron can be disposed of in clear conscience.

>> sure you have good contact, which can be difficult with heavily
rusted
>> objects.
>>
>> Turn on the power. Fine bubbles will rise from the object. Go away
and
>> come back in a few hours.

Usually takes overnight to a day or two. Occasionally remove and brush
off
the schmutz off the electrode and part. If you do this indoors, MAKE
SURE
THE AREA IS WELL VENTILATED SO HYDROGEN DOES NOT ACCUMULATE.


>> Rub the object under running water with a plastic pot
>> scrubber. (What comes off is one of the blackest substances known-you
may
>> want to wear gloves and don't spatter good clothes.) Depending on the
>> amount of original rust you may have to re-treat. The clean object
will
>> acquire surface rust very quickly, so wipe it dry and dry further in
a
>> warm oven or with a hair dryer.
>>
>> The polarity is important!! The surface rust is being converted to
>> metallic iron, so the process is totally self limiting. I have left
things (by
>> mistake) for several days: the water was largely gone, by
electrolysis,
>> but the object was fine. Reverse the polarity and your object will
be eaten
>> away!!! The rust will go along with it, but that's not what you had
in
>> mind, is it??
>>
>> There are lots of variants: suspending an electrode inside to clean a
>> cavity in an object; using a sponge with a backing electrode to clean
>> spots on large objects or things that shouldn't be submerged (like
with lots of
>> wood)
>>
>> The surface is left black. Rusted pits are still pits. Shiny unrusted
>> metal is untouched.
>>
>> For electrodes, you can use junk iron, or I buy cheap stainless
spoons
>> at the flea market for treating small stuff in a dishpan. Large
things are
>> treated in my trashcan bath with an iron bar bent around the inside
as an
>> electrode.
>> Try it--it beats any other method, especially for antique tools.
>What is washing soda? Is it TSP (trisodium phosphate) or Borax or
sodium
>bicarbonate, or is it any alkaline solution?. Should the surface be
>lightly wire brushed before the electrolysis?

Goodwrench = Jim Pfrommer
Central Texas
goodwrench easy.com
Check out Goodwrench's CyberRanch:
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.easy.com/goodwrench/




- -----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of JRFiero
Sent: Saturday, February 28, 1998 8:24 AM
Subject: Derusting -chemical, electrolysis


Mornin' -
- ---------------- snip -----------
Drain cleaners. Haven't tried them yet. Anyone?
Electrolysis. There was a URL in a post back in September,
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.physics.adelaide.edu.au/~awilkins/wood/electrolysis.html,
which,
with its links, details a safe-looking electrolysis method of rust
removal.
Has anyone tried this? I'll get around to it. Looks promising for
large
parts, like a completely rust covered fan shroud I have waiting.

- --------------- snip --------------
I've come to the conclusion that for ordinary nuts and bolts, I'm just
going
to go buy the stainless equivalent. All this cleaning and plating just
isn't
worth it.
So what does everybody else do?

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 09:53:50 -0600
From: "Goodwrench"
Subject: RE: 7.3L Diesel Engine and cavitation

This topic is addressed on the Powerstroke owners club page.
The main address for the page is: http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.aslci.com/psocindx.htm

The topic of cavitation is specifically mentioned at:
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.aslci.com/psocindx.htm

The additive Motocraft FW-15 should be added to the cooling system every
15,000 miles as specified in Ford's Maintenance Schedule. This stuff is
also sold as Fleetguard DCA4

There is a whole specific web page and message board dealing with this
cavitation problem, and it can be found from the Maintenance Tips,
Cooling system additives section of the Powerstroke Owners Club page.

Goodwrench = Jim Pfrommer
1941 pickup named Truckster
1996 F350 dually with Powerstroke turbo diesel named Gus
Central Texas
goodwrench easy.com
Check out Goodwrench's CyberRanch:
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.easy.com/goodwrench/



- -----Original Message-----
From: On Behalf Of WACWR
Sent: Sunday, March 01, 1998 2:04 PM
To: fordtrucks ListService.net
Subject: 7.3L Diesel Engine

I recently received from Ford a notice that the 7.3L diesel engine may
develop
cavitation erosion in the cylinder wall resulting in catastophic leakage
to
the engine. I wonder if anyone knows of anyone experiencing this
problem. I'm
trying to estimate the odds of it happening to me.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 15:45:16 -0600
From: Wesley Ashworth
Subject: Rotten gas tank

What's the best solution for a gas tank that's been sitting up for
10-13 years? I've replaced two fuel filters already. Should I keep messing
with filters, or be better off replacing?

Thanks,

Wesley

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 02 Mar 1998 15:59:56 -0600
From: Robert Hill
Subject: Re: Rotten gas tank

If your tank has been sitting for 10-13 years, it is probably rusty inside at
best and any remaining gas would have varnished. These scenarios can cause
havic when trying to get a vehicle running. My suggestion is to remove the
tank, visually inspect it and if it looks usable, take it to your local radiator
shop and have it boiled, etc to cleanse the inside. Then use some Bill Hirsch
gas tank prep and after a day or two, it should be ready to be used again.

Bob

Wesley Ashworth wrote:

> What's the best solution for a gas tank that's been sitting up for
> 10-13 years? I've replaced two fuel filters already. Should I keep messing
> with filters, or be better off replacing?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Wesley
> +-------------- Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1960 and Older --------------+
> | Send posts to fordtrucks listservice.net, removal form on the web |
> | site. |
> +---------- Visit Our Web Site: http://www.ford-trucks.com/ ----------+

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 18:28:04 -0500
From: "KENNETH D MARTY"
Subject: Re: Truck retirement villas, information?

Chris the phone # is 919 682-4211 for Carolina Classics In Durham. Give
them A call, real nice guys. Another place I deal with is hear in Charlotte,
Dennis Carpenter the # is 704 786-8139 I hope this helps

Kenneth Marty
1955 F100
- -----Original Message-----
From: Chris Hedemark
To: fordtrucks ListService.net
Date: Monday, March 02, 1998 6:36 AM
Subject: Re: Truck retirement villas, information?


>>I used to live in the South Raleigh area (I'm in Atlanta now), and I can
>>tell you that there are several salvage yards for you to look in for old
>
>[snip]
>
>Jay you just saved me a lot of legwork!!!! Thank you very much for passing
>this along!
>
>>By the way, There's a shop in Durham that deals just in old F-100 parts.
>>I don't remember the name of the place, but I do know they are on Greer
>>St. in Durham. You may want to that a drive over there!
>
>
>Thats only like 15 minutes away. I seem to remember seeing a listing for a
>shop called "Carolina Classics" but didn't know that they specialized in
>Ford Trucks. Now I definitely have to get over there. :-)
>
>Thanks again,
>Chris Hedemark
>Yonder Way
>http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.yonderway.com
>
>
>+-------------- Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1960 and Older --------------+
>| Send posts to fordtrucks listservice.net, removal form on the web |
>| site. |
>+---------- Visit Our Web Site: http://www.ford-trucks.com/ ----------+

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 02 Mar 1998 18:59:01 -0500
From: "Paul G."
Subject: Naming things...

I'm still searching for a good one for my 55 panel; like "Grover", but
it's taken...my 79 Bronco used to be called "Brownco" (yes, it is), but
is now "Bullwinkle", because my daughter's 86 s10 Blazer is called
"Rocky", and they both sit behind each other in front of the house.
Rocky, as in "like a rock..."
Paul Gayda

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 19:12:05 -0500
From: "Chris Hedemark"
Subject: Re: Naming things...

>I'm still searching for a good one for my 55 panel; like "Grover", but
>it's taken...my 79 Bronco used to be called "Brownco" (yes, it is), but
>is now "Bullwinkle", because my daughter's 86 s10 Blazer is called
>"Rocky", and they both sit behind each other in front of the house.
>Rocky, as in "like a rock..."


How about "Boris"? Or if you want a feminine name for the truck you could
go for "Natasha". Either way, it sticks with the established theme and
leaves a spare name for your next truck.

Chris Hedemark
Yonder Way
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.yonderway.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 20:21:42 EST
From: RJC988
Subject: More answers to Chris

Boy you really got things going on the list. I like this.

The F-100 Supernationals have been in Pigeon Forge for at least 3 or more
years.

I'm sure the dodge Ram seat will not fit in the '52.

Most catalogs I have, you can build a '52 from the ground up without no
original parts.

The grill is the only difference between a '55 and a '57 (and maybe the 6 volt
system?) I think 55 was the last year for the Flathead V8.

Vintage Air is suggesting going with the r-134a system. R-12 is out of
production.

The latest issue of Custom Classic Trucks has a truck value buyers guide! It
lists "approximate" pricing of different trucks. In this and other magazines,
I have found many parts suppliers in NC!

Looks like you are doing this at a very good pace. You are sure to make a good
decision.

Good luck,
Glenn in Memphis (3-31 will be Bartlett!)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 20:29:05 EST
From: RJC988
Subject: Brian and his crew!

How did you do that (look at his pictorial! )

Glenn in Memphis

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 21:02:22 -0500
From: "Chris Hedemark"
Subject: Re: More answers to Chris

>Boy you really got things going on the list. I like this.


Sorry if I end up asking a lot of newbie questions, but I can't find this
stuff anywhere else on the web. I've been directed to a few web sites with
some great pictures and very sketchy details at best about what a small
handful of people are doing to their trucks. I'd like to learn a little
more about the how and the why involved with the different steps. I've
gotten some private messages on this, which I certainly appreciate, but I
wonder if some of the replies would better serve the subscribers as a body?
I got a couple of messages regarding different IFS options and it would be
nice to see a discussion on the merits and tradeoffs with the different
systems.

>The F-100 Supernationals have been in Pigeon Forge for at least 3 or more
>years.


OK so I shouldn't feel too bad if I can't make it this year. :-)

>I'm sure the dodge Ram seat will not fit in the '52.


Dang. Is the cab on a 52 especially narrow? Keep in mind I only know the
truck from photos. Basically I want to have comfortable seats with a nice
center console that can fold back into a middle seat. The Dodge Ram has
done this very well. Should I be looking at smaller trucks like a Ford
Ranger or something to get seats from? What kind of car would be on the
proper scale?

>Most catalogs I have, you can build a '52 from the ground up without no
>original parts.


This is encouraging. Once I get the truck I'll definitely start hitting you
guys up for recommendations on different parts. :-)

>Vintage Air is suggesting going with the r-134a system. R-12 is out of
>production.


Yeah and where you can get it, it's godawful expensive. I have the license
to buy it but still it's pretty much into the stratosphere pricewise these
days. R-134A systems work, but I haven't found one yet that really gets
*frigid*. My 96 Mustang has 134a and gets "cool". My 95 Ram took even
longer, and on the hottest days could almost get to "cool". Dagnabbit on
those sweltering southern days you want something that is downright frosty!!
I love the way my 1971 Mustang used to cause condensation outside of the
car. :-)

>The latest issue of Custom Classic Trucks has a truck value buyers guide!
It
>lists "approximate" pricing of different trucks. In this and other
magazines,
>I have found many parts suppliers in NC!


Yeah I've gotten a lead on a place about 15 minutes from here over in Durham
and a few places within 1-2 hour drive between here and Charlotte. Very
encouraging indeed!

>Looks like you are doing this at a very good pace. You are sure to make a
good
>decision.


Well we've been going over the $$$ situation and made further decisions. It
will cause a slight delay in the purchase of the truck but will free up the
truck from daily driver duties so that I can do the buildup properly and
won't be "rushed" to get stuff together before work on Monday. There is a
mid sixties F100 in Person County that's been up for grabs for a LOOOONG
time and has been labelled at $1,200. The thing runs because I've seen the
guy driving it, and I never noticed any smoke coming from it. It sounds as
good as it possibly could with one of those dual exhaust kits that looks
like little tiny 1" diameter outlets on it. I figure I can pick up that
truck and put it into daily work duty, use it to get to work, haul parts,
etc. It will delay my purchase of an old F1 by several months but I won't
be pressured into getting a running truck or even one with an engine. So I
can probably get into a *cheaper* F1 with no engine or trans which is no big
deal since I was going to replace all that anyway. This mid-sixties F100
will likely just be "maintained" and the most customization I'll likely do
is replacing that godawful exhaust with a proper 2-1/2" system.

When I get that F1 though I am gonna RUN YOU GUYS RAGGED with questions.
:-) The cool thing is I have a digital camera and a web server so I can
document the project with *great detail* as I go.

You guys have been great help and encouragement. Thanks again!

Chris Hedemark
Yonder Way
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.yonderway.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 02 Mar 1998 19:41:15 -0600
From: Rich Garber
Subject: A few corrections

>Most catalogs I have, you can build a '52 from the ground up without no
>original parts.

I agree

>The grill is the only difference between a '55 and a '57 (and maybe the 6
volt
>system?) I think 55 was the last year for the Flathead V8.

Sorry, 55 and 57 are a world apart. All the front sheetmetal is different.
53 was the last year of the flathead (except canada, they went to early 54)
55 was the last of the 6-volts.

>just my .02

Rich
54 F100 (unnamed and all apart)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 02 Mar 1998 21:27:29 -0500
From: Ken Payne
Subject: Chevy Definitions

Someone emailed me a couple of funny Chevy/GMC definitions.
Thought some of you might enjoy them.

C heap
H ardly
E fflicent
V ehicle
R uns
O n
L uck
E very
T ime

G M C..... got mechanic coming

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 22:43:35 EST
From: JRFiero
Subject: Re: More answers to Chris

In a message dated 98-03-02 20:24:16 EST, you write:


The grill is the only difference between a '55 and a '57 (and maybe the 6
volt
system?) I think 55 was the last year for the Flathead V8.
>>
These two answers are close, but not correct.
The 53-55s were distinguishable by the grills. 56 had several differences,
including the windshield, doors, vent windows, front shock mounts, and perhaps
others in addition to the grill. 57s are althogether different.
It's possible that there were some flatheads in 54, but not likely. 53 is
the accepted last year of the flathead in trucks, 52 in cars. There is some
confusion because the Ford flathead was a 239 inch, and one of the first
overhead V8s was also a 239.

original parts.>>
Basically true, but you'll go broke doing it, and grow several thousand gray
hairs getting the repro parts to fit more or less like the originals.
Why are you set on the 52 as opposed to the 51?

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 22:52:46 EST
From: FRD56F100
Subject: Power Steering Brackets

Perhaps I shouldn't be asking this here, but anyway.........
I have a 350 Chevy in my 56 F-100 (Camaro Clip) with headers. The problem is
that I always seem to have problems with the power steering pump brackets.
Is there a particular year power steering pump and brackets that work best
with headers? My problem is with the bracket that bolts to the exhaust
manifold or header. I custom made one but it looks ugly and I wonder if
other people have the same problem. Do anybody know of a company that sells
this kind of stuff? I just want something that looks like it belongs there.

Thanks in advance,
Joe

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 22:55:26 -0500
From: "Chris Hedemark"
Subject: '51 vs. '52

> Why are you set on the 52 as opposed to the 51?


Good question. It's just that I've seen many pics of 52's that I like but
no really good pics of a 51 from different angles. What are the main
differences between 51 and 52?

Chris Hedemark
Yonder Way
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.yonderway.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 21:30:57 -0800 (PST)
From: Scott
Subject: Re: '51 vs. '52

- ---Chris Hedemark wrote:
>
> > Why are you set on the 52 as opposed to the 51?
>
> Good question. It's just that I've seen many pics of 52's that I
like but
> no really good pics of a 51 from different angles. What are the main
> differences between 51 and 52?
>
> Chris Hedemark
> Yonder Way
> http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.yonderway.com
The 51 has the V8 emblem on the center piece just above the grill
where as the 52 has "FORD" there. The chrome on the side of the hood
was a little different, more so in the delux cab. Take a look here:
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.ualberta.ca/~rcolgan/f1_20.jpg
this is a 51 and you can see the V8. This one has the "FORD"
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.ualberta.ca/~rcolgan/f1_23.jpg
The pics are from Randall's F-Files page which is at:
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.ualberta.ca/~rcolgan/home.html....


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