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perf-list Digest Mon, 05 Feb 2001 Volume: 2001  Issue: 017

In This Issue:
Re: Understeer
351c/C6 Tranny
Re: 351c/C6 Tranny
Finally got some work done
Re: engine mounts and bump stops
Re: 351c/C6 Tranny
Re: Understeer
Re: 351c/C6 Tranny
Re: Understeer
ADMIN: F100 Supernats Flyer now online
Motot mounts
Re: engine mounts and bump stops
ADMIN: NEW Ford Lightning Rod Concept on web site
door seals
Re: 351c/C6 Tranny
Re: door seals
Re: 351c/C6 Tranny

----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "wish" <wish ford-trucks.net>
Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 15:38:13 GMT
Subject: Re: Understeer


>Exactly. Most front wheel drive cars suffer from understeer, and most rear wheel
drive vehicles suffer from oversteer. (Assuming you are on the gas, taking the
tires to the limits of their grip)
>

Garrett, kind of a generalization there huh ?

Lots of interesting answers to get the point across, here's a couple of ways
I've heard it described.

Understeer is when you turn the wheel a ways and the car doesn't turn nearly
as far.  That is the front end tends to "push" out of the corner and you end
up dialing in more steering to get it back on the line.  In the extreme's it
does cause the vehicle to go completely straight when the wheels are turned
(like ice or wet conditions). Nearly all full production cars come from the
factory with a bit of push dialed in to keep the driver "safe" ... soccer mom's
don't like the back ends of their mini-van's coming around on them too much,
they'd rather plow head on into something they can see ...

Oversteer is when you turn the wheel just a little and the car turns a lot.
Usually its characterized by the rear end's tendancy to swing out easily on
a corner.  Tests have generally shown a touch of oversteer is about the fastest
the car can be, but it can be hard to drive a car with much oversteer on the
edge as the backend is always hanging out.

Then of course there's the nasty combinations, the 5.0 is notorious for this.
It understeers like a pig into the corner, front end pushing and screaming,
then as you roll on the gas to exit, it switches to oversteer in a moment and
you have to steer out of the corner to keep the car on line ... makes for a
car that's fun to drive and looks pretty cool, but isn't really all that fast.


With all the new super cabs and stuff, I'm beginning to wonder if understeer
isn't being dialed into the trucks more too ?  I know my truck doesn't understeer
at all, but that's only 1 19gallon tank, and an 8' bed, there's just no weight
on the back end, and with a 390 over the front wheels, it holds those down and
has enough torque for the rear wheels to begin to pass the fronts in hard corners.


Just my $.02
wish

96 Mustang GT 5spd 4.6L
73ish 1/2ton 4x4   6.4L
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish

Ford Truck Enthusiasts
http://www.ford-trucks.com

------------------------------

From: HDMel95 aol.com
Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 09:37:45 EST
Subject: 351c/C6 Tranny


Not sure if I have a problem or not. I run a 351c hooked to a C6 Tranny in my
53 f100. I noticed when I put it in gear the other day, I missed Dr and
started off in 2nd and it was in 2nd gear.  It did not take off in first and
shift to 2nd.  Is that normal in the C6?
Mel Silva
53 Ford Effie
34 5w
34 Roadster
70 El Camino

------------------------------

From: "wish" <wish ford-trucks.net>
Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 17:19:00 GMT
Subject: Re: 351c/C6 Tranny


>Not sure if I have a problem or not. I run a 351c hooked to a C6 Tranny in my

>53 f100. I noticed when I put it in gear the other day, I missed Dr and
>started off in 2nd and it was in 2nd gear.  It did not take off in first and

>shift to 2nd.  Is that normal in the C6?


Yup, won a bet with my dad on that one :)  That's one of the cool features of
the C6 to help you out in slick spots, put it in 2 and you'll be less likely
to spin the tires :)

Just my $.02
wish

96 Mustang GT 5spd 4.6L
73ish 1/2ton 4x4   6.4L
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish

Ford Truck Enthusiasts
http://www.ford-trucks.com

------------------------------

From: "wish" <wish ford-trucks.net>
Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 17:25:48 GMT
Subject: Finally got some work done


Was finally able to find a few hours to work on the truck this weekend.  The
mundane part of putting the tailpipe hanger back on so it didn't bang on the
trailer hitch any more was tedious and boring, but the fun of replacing a rear
shock was there (had to cut it off on top because the nut was rusted to the
shaft.

Here's a tip I found though, if you want to use poly bushings on the upper portion
of your rear shocks (mine were the type that you just thread a nut onto).  I
have some old end links from Mustang sway bars laying around with the factory
poly on them.  I trimmed off one side so that it was completely flat and left
the nub on the other side so it would center in the hole.  Turns out the hole
on the truck is bigger so the centering feature didn't work right, but by trimming
them down the threads will just start ... thread it down til there are a couple
showing and viola, you've got poly bushings on the shocks :)

Now if I could just find bushings for the top of the fronts on the weird 74
4x4 spring perch ...

Oh yeah, next up : thermostat, heater core, oil change, lower radiator hose.


Just my $.02
wish

96 Mustang GT 5spd 4.6L
73ish 1/2ton 4x4   6.4L
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish

Ford Truck Enthusiasts
http://www.ford-trucks.com

------------------------------

From: JUMPINFORD aol.com
Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 12:18:48 EST
Subject: Re: engine mounts and bump stops


In a message dated 2/5/2001 6:29:15 AM Pacific Standard Time,
wish ford-trucks.net writes:

<< 2) Not sure what you mean, if you mean just chain the motor down with a
bolt
through either end, I'd advise against it, seen too many break over time ...
 >>

A heavy 5/16 chain, with just enough slack to let the motor mount work
(tighten up only under load) is the only way to go.  Every motor we've ever
built got a chain.  Dads F-250 4x4, our F-350 work truck and my bros 84.  My
truck will get one when its ready, and my Mustang is gettin one, as all the
hard launches have wasted the brand new mount already. Its nice cheap
insurance against a destroyed radiator, not to mention the fact that you can
get stranded if your mount breaks out in the boonies and you cant use what
your engines full torque cuz it wants to twist out from under the hood and
say hello.

Darrell & Tweety

------------------------------

From: Kevin Kemmerer <kevkem epix.net>
Subject: Re: 351c/C6 Tranny
Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 12:26:23 -0500

Simply, yes.  The C6 is one transmission that when put in 2, stays in 2, no
matter what.  Back in the day, they didn't have to make a tranny "safe" for
idiots, by making it shift in any position it is in.  (Not calling you an
idiot BTW!)

Kevin

----------
From: HDMel95 aol.com[SMTP:HDMel95 aol.com]
Sent: Monday, February 05, 2001 9:37 AM
To: perf-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: [perf-list] 351c/C6 Tranny

Not sure if I have a problem or not. I run a 351c hooked to a C6 Tranny in
my
53 f100. I noticed when I put it in gear the other day, I missed Dr and
started off in 2nd and it was in 2nd gear.  It did not take off in first
and
shift to 2nd.  Is that normal in the C6?
Mel Silva
53 Ford Effie
34 5w
34 Roadster
70 El Camino




------------------------------

From: JUMPINFORD aol.com
Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 12:32:17 EST
Subject: Re: Understeer


In a message dated 2/5/2001 6:36:14 AM Pacific Standard Time,
wish ford-trucks.net writes:

<< Then of course there's the nasty combinations, the 5.0 is notorious for
this.
 It understeers like a pig into the corner, front end pushing and screaming,
then as you roll on the gas to exit, it switches to oversteer in a moment and
you have to steer out of the corner to keep the car on line ... makes for a
car that's fun to drive and looks pretty cool, but isn't really all that
fast. >>

Tweety does this.  I like it this way, because it if I enter a corner to
fast, it provides one more means of correction.  I mean with a 460 up front,
you will not be able to get rid of the push, but with the same 460, a light
tap on the gas will get you pointed in the right direction.  And with a 140
inch wheel base on a standard truck, as soon as your off the gas, the back
end hooks right up.  Its because of this that my truck, a 5000 lb F-350, will
actually hold corners faster than my 71 Stang.  I was out at the track one
day setting up for the nights circle track race, and the SCCA had a course
set up in the parking lot.  No one was around, so I said what the hell, and I
started playin around with the truck.  About the 3rd time around I had really
gotten the feel for it, when one of the guys came back over and found me
whoopin it up on his track.  Told me I had to leave, but hed be more than
happy to let me race if I joined, saying he never woulda figured an F-350 for
doin like it did.  Never joined up, but I may be out on the road course at
the track during some of the open track days.  Think it would be kinda fun.

Darrell  & Tweety

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Feb 2001 12:13:51 -0800
From: dave Prasse <burgess4 gte.net>
Subject: Re: 351c/C6 Tranny




HDMel95 aol.com wrote:
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> Support FTE - Check out our store:
> http://www.motorhaven.com/
> ----------------------------------------------------------
>
> Not sure if I have a problem or not. I run a 351c hooked to a C6 Tranny in my
> 53 f100. I noticed when I put it in gear the other day, I missed Dr and
> started off in 2nd and it was in 2nd gear.  It did not take off in first and
> shift to 2nd.  Is that normal in the C6?

As far as I know , yes it is normal ....
wish my AOD had that feature for snow driving up the hills
on the farm.

dP

------------------------------

From: "wish" <wish ford-trucks.net>
Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 20:07:51 GMT
Subject: Re: Understeer


> Its because of this that my truck, a 5000 lb F-350, will
>actually hold corners faster than my 71 Stang.

Not sayin its impossible, but likely it just feels like the truck is faster.
Actually the car doesn't have the best suspension for cornering either, but
you'd be amazed what a good set of tires will do for you too :)  I also find
it harder to hold myself in the truck seat since its a bench, whereas the car
is buckets and while I don't stick to the leather like I'd like to, its easier
to sit in ...

> About the 3rd time around I had really
>gotten the feel for it, when one of the guys came back over and found me
>whoopin it up on his track.  Told me I had to leave, but hed be more than

>happy to let me race if I joined,

He probably didn't mean actually join SCCA so much as sign up to drive as a
guest ... if they don't allow guests, I'm not sure how they plan on keeping
the club around ...

Careful though, you might get hooked and end up relocating the control arms
and finding some nice R compound tires for that stang of yours :)

Oh yeah and if you want to see a truck running check out :

http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://209.234.75.152/Gallery/2000-03-26/index.html

I'm hopin to run it again in a month or so, we'll see what happens.

Just my $.02
wish

96 Mustang GT 5spd 4.6L
73ish 1/2ton 4x4   6.4L
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish

Ford Truck Enthusiasts
http://www.ford-trucks.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Feb 2001 14:44:35 -0500
From: Ken Payne <kpayne ford-trucks.com>
Subject: ADMIN: F100 Supernats Flyer now online


The main page of the web site ( www.ford-trucks.com ) now has a
link to a page with scanned images of the F-100 Supernationals
flyer.  You can print these to register for the show or just to
read more about this great Ford truck show.

Ken Payne
Admin, Ford Truck Enthusiasts
http://www.ford-trucks.com


------------------------------

From: Oldtrukman aol.com
Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 15:18:04 EST
Subject: Motot mounts


Phil.
   I had a similar dilemma with the motor mounts in my '56 F-100. It already
had a 302 in it when I got it, and when a motor mount let go and I had to
replace it, I had no idea what model to get. I went down to my local NAPA
store and talked to them. They just handed me the motor mount section of
their parts book and let me browse through it until I found the right match.

   Rix56 The Rat
   351C/C6

------------------------------

From: Kevin Kemmerer <kevkem epix.net>
Subject: Re: engine mounts and bump stops
Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 17:33:39 -0500

I don't remember the vehicle/engine for this question but...There must be
someone selling a motor mount that can last.  I stress mine more than most
people ever will, and I have had zero failures ever since using L&L mounts.
On the puller I pulled the T-case mount apart, but the motor mounts had no
problem.  Personally I think chains are just a band aid fix.

Kevin

----------
From: JUMPINFORD aol.com[SMTP:JUMPINFORD aol.com]
Sent: Monday, February 05, 2001 12:18 PM
To: perf-list ford-trucks.com

A heavy 5/16 chain, with just enough slack to let the motor mount work
(tighten up only under load) is the only way to go.  Every motor we've ever
built got a chain.  Dads F-250 4x4, our F-350 work truck and my bros 84.
My
truck will get one when its ready, and my Mustang is gettin one, as all the
hard launches have wasted the brand new mount already. Its nice cheap
insurance against a destroyed radiator, not to mention the fact that you
can
get stranded if your mount breaks out in the boonies and you cant use what
your engines full torque cuz it wants to twist out from under the hood and
say hello.

Darrell & Tweety





------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Feb 2001 18:12:32 -0500
From: Ken Payne <kpayne ford-trucks.com>
Subject: ADMIN: NEW Ford Lightning Rod Concept on web site


Check out the hot new Ford Lightning Rod Concept on the web
site!

http://www.ford-trucks.com/news/newsc4.html

You've never seen tires like the ones on this truck!

Ken Payne
Admin, Ford Truck Enthusiasts
http://www.ford-trucks.com


------------------------------

From: Slamed150 aol.com
Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 18:13:54 EST
Subject: door seals

Does ne1 know of a place on line that has all the door seals for my 87 f-150
thanks. Chris



------------------------------

From: "Hogan, Tom (Portland)" <Tom.Hogan kla-tencor.com>
Subject: Re: 351c/C6 Tranny
Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 18:17:31 -0800


>
> Not sure if I have a problem or not. I run a 351c hooked to a
> C6 Tranny in my
> 53 f100. I noticed when I put it in gear the other day, I
> missed Dr and
> started off in 2nd and it was in 2nd gear.  It did not take
> off in first and
> shift to 2nd.  Is that normal in the C6?
> Mel Silva
> 53 Ford Effie
> 34 5w
> 34 Roadster
> 70 El Camino
> =============================================================
> To  unsubscribe:   www.ford-trucks.com/mailinglist.html#item3
> Please remove this footer when replying.
>

Yes, absolutely normal operation and one of the better ideas IMNSHO.  The
advantage here is in slippery conditions you can sometimes put it in 2 to
reduce the torque multiplication to the rear wheels and this sometimes helps
you get unstuck.  With Ford you have more control with other products they
don't give you this.  IE 2nd is the highest those trannys will shift.  Yet
another thing I don't like about them. :-)

Tom H.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 19:04:01 -0800 (PST)
From: Chuck Badger <chuckbadger yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: door seals


Sure,

Go to JC Whitney, they also have an online store, and
carry just about all the door/window gaskets you might
need.


--- Slamed150 aol.com wrote:
>
----------------------------------------------------------
> Support FTE - Check out our store:
>
http://www.motorhaven.com/
>
----------------------------------------------------------
> Does ne1 know of a place on line that has all the
> door seals for my 87 f-150
> thanks. Chris
>
>
>
=============================================================
> To  unsubscribe:
> www.ford-trucks.com/mailinglist.html#item3
> Please remove this footer when replying.
>


------------------------------

From: "Hogan, Tom (Portland)" <Tom.Hogan kla-tencor.com>
Subject: Re: 351c/C6 Tranny
Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 11:11:14 -0800


>
> >
> > Not sure if I have a problem or not. I run a 351c hooked to a
> > C6 Tranny in my
> > 53 f100. I noticed when I put it in gear the other day, I
> > missed Dr and
> > started off in 2nd and it was in 2nd gear.  It did not take
> > off in first and
> > shift to 2nd.  Is that normal in the C6?
> > Mel Silva
> > 53 Ford Effie
> > 34 5w
> > 34 Roadster
> > 70 El Camino
> > =============================================================
> > To  unsubscribe:   www.ford-trucks.com/mailinglist.html#item3
> > Please remove this footer when replying.
> >
>
> Yes, absolutely normal operation and one of the better ideas
> IMNSHO.  The
> advantage here is in slippery conditions you can sometimes
> put it in 2 to
> reduce the torque multiplication to the rear wheels and this
> sometimes helps
> you get unstuck.  With Ford you have more control with other
> products they
> don't give you this.  IE 2nd is the highest those trannys
> will shift.  Yet
> another thing I don't like about them. :-)
>
> Tom H.
>
I forgot but I was also going to mention that if you are going over 30 mph
you cannot force a downshift to first with the shifter.  Same for second but
I don't know what the cutoff speed is.

Tom H.

------------------------------

End of perf-list Digest V2001 #17
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