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From: owner-perf-list-digest ford-trucks.com (perf-list-digest)
To: perf-list-digest ford-trucks.com
Subject: perf-list-digest V3 #16
Reply-To: perf-list ford-trucks.com
Sender: owner-perf-list-digest ford-trucks.com
Errors-To: owner-perf-list-digest ford-trucks.com
Precedence: bulk


perf-list-digest Wednesday, January 19 2000 Volume 03 : Number 016



=======================================================================
Ford Truck Enthusiasts - Performance
Visit our web site: http://www.ford-trucks.com/
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=======================================================================
In this issue:

Re: FTE Perf - 429/460 heads
RE: FTE Perf - tranny
FTE Perf - Re: tranny
RE: FTE Perf - 429/460 heads
FTE Perf - 429/460 heads
FTE Perf - Adjusting rockers
RE: FTE Perf - tranny
RE: FTE Perf - Adjusting rockers
Re: FTE Perf - RE: 429/460 heads
RE: FTE Perf - RE: 429/460 heads
Re: FTE Perf - Adjusting rockers
RE: FTE Perf - RE: 429/460 heads
Re: FTE Perf - RE: 429/460 heads (hardened seats)
Re: FTE Perf - 429/460 heads
FTE Perf - 1/2-1 ton
RE: FTE Perf - 429/460 heads

=======================================================================

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 05:40:25 -0700
From: Margit Walden goodnet.com>
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - 429/460 heads

the c8 heads should have screw in studs for adjustable rockers. the d3 heads
are non-adjustable. a machinist told me you can use stock chevybig block
rockers on the c8 heads.
bronco buster

JUMPINFORD AOL.COM wrote:

> Hell everyone, quick question. I found a pair of C8VE heads, but they are
> bare. I am considering using them on my 460, but I need to know if the
> rockers from my D3VE heads will work. I havent had a chance to look at em
> close, so I figured your the folks to ask. Thanks folks, See ya.
>
> Darrell Duggan
> 74 F-350 "Tweety"
> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html



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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 09:00:17 -0600
From: "William S. Hart" iastate.edu>
Subject: RE: FTE Perf - tranny

> I have a T-18 in my 84 F-150 4x4
> the shifter just flopped over today I was shifting
> in reverse and it just fell over and now you can't change gears and it is
> pointed at the passenger now, is this easy to fix and if it needs
> a rebuild
> would it be that hard to swap in a C-6?
>

Without a closer look, I'd say the bolts just snapped that actually hold the
shifter in ... not positive about your setup, but most of the manuals I've
messed with have 2 bolts that hold the actual lever on ... if those broke,
fell out, or even just got really loose, you'd have what you describe ...
I'd pull the boot and see what was up before making any brash decisions ...

Just my $.02
wish

96 Mustang GT 5spd 4.6L
73ish 1/2ton 4x4 6.4L
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish

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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 09:50:38 -0600
From: "Douglas W McLaughlin" midwest.net>
Subject: FTE Perf - Re: tranny

I had a CJ-7 years ago that had the same thing happen to it. The cause was
the bolts holding the tranny to the clutch housing stripped out. It was an
easy fix to have the holes drilled out to a bigger bolt size and retapped. I
had no more problems after. If your housing is cracked or the bigger bolts
won't fit then you will have to get a new housing or change everything to go
to a C6. That is something I haven't done.

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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 12:31:44 -0500
From: Sleddog epix.net>
Subject: RE: FTE Perf - 429/460 heads

The BBC parts have a different rocker ratio.

Kevin

- ----------
From: Margit Walden[SMTP:Margit goodnet.com]
Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2000 7:40 AM
To: perf-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - 429/460 heads

the c8 heads should have screw in studs for adjustable rockers. the d3 heads
are non-adjustable. a machinist told me you can use stock chevybig block
rockers on the c8 heads.
bronco buster

JUMPINFORD AOL.COM wrote:

> Hell everyone, quick question. I found a pair of C8VE heads, but they are
> bare. I am considering using them on my 460, but I need to know if the
> rockers from my D3VE heads will work. I havent had a chance to look at em
> close, so I figured your the folks to ask. Thanks folks, See ya.
>
> Darrell Duggan
> 74 F-350 "Tweety"
> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html



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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 13:04:04 -0500
From: am14 daimlerchrysler.com
Subject: FTE Perf - 429/460 heads

Darrell D. writes: >>I found a pair of C8VE heads, but they are bare. I
am considering using them on my 460, but I need to know if the rockers from
my D3V# heads will work.<<

Nope. Won't work. D3 has the rail style reckers that are attached by a
bolt going down through the fulcrum/rocker/stand into the head. The C8 has
a stud sticking out of the head and a nut that goes over the
fulcrum/rocker.

Azie
Ardmore, Al.

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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 13:13:03 -0500
From: am14 daimlerchrysler.com
Subject: FTE Perf - Adjusting rockers

Is there a really good reason the early 429/460 stud mounted type rockers
can't be adjusted by using lock nuts on top of the adjusting nuts, rather
than just driving the nuts down to the stop??? When doing valve grinding
jobs and due to normal wear and sinking of the valve into the head, there
comes into play the fact that bottoming the adjusting nut down to the
positive stop sometimes has the lifter almost totally collapsed. Does
anyone have some advise for this old man on this. Hopefully so.

Azie
Ardmore, Al.

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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 19:47:09 +0100 (MET)
From: Bas van der Veer dds.nl>
Subject: RE: FTE Perf - tranny

> > I have a T-18 in my 84 F-150 4x4
> > the shifter just flopped over today I was shifting
> > in reverse and it just fell over and now you can't change gears and it is
> > pointed at the passenger now, is this easy to fix and if it needs
> > a rebuild
> > would it be that hard to swap in a C-6?
> >
>
> Without a closer look, I'd say the bolts just snapped that actually hold the
> shifter in ... not positive about your setup, but most of the manuals I've
> messed with have 2 bolts that hold the actual lever on ... if those broke,
> fell out, or even just got really loose, you'd have what you describe ...
> I'd pull the boot and see what was up before making any brash decisions ...
>

Swapping in a C6 is never a brash decision :-) (this ougtta get some
discussion going,wink wink :-))
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 14:21:58 -0500
From: Sleddog epix.net>
Subject: RE: FTE Perf - Adjusting rockers

Shorter pushrods? I would use good quaility adjusting/locking nuts myself.
Kevin

- ----------
From: am14 daimlerchrysler.com[SMTP:am14 daimlerchrysler.com]
Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2000 1:13 PM
To: Perf-list Ford-trucks.com
Subject: FTE Perf - Adjusting rockers

Is there a really good reason the early 429/460 stud mounted type rockers
can't be adjusted by using lock nuts on top of the adjusting nuts, rather
than just driving the nuts down to the stop??? When doing valve grinding
jobs and due to normal wear and sinking of the valve into the head, there
comes into play the fact that bottoming the adjusting nut down to the
positive stop sometimes has the lifter almost totally collapsed. Does
anyone have some advise for this old man on this. Hopefully so.

Azie
Ardmore, Al.

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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 18:04:48 -0500
From: "Brad Smith" mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - RE: 429/460 heads

- ----- Original Message -----
From: Sleddog epix.net>
To: ford-trucks.com>
Sent: Monday, January 17, 2000 3:50 PM
Subject: FTE Perf - RE: 429/460 heads


> If my memory is correct (and sometimes it fails miserably), the '73 heads
> (D3V...) are pedestal mount rockers. The early heads, are stuf mount.
> Unless of course, someone, or you already had them machined for stud
> mount.
>
> Machining the early heads for pedestal mount, is not to my knowledge
> possible, or at least not to any advantage.
>
> The old heads, need the stock rail rockers or hardened pushrods and
> guideplates with standard or roller rockers.
>
> Personally, i would go with a set of harland sharp roller rockers, and
> hardened pushrods/guideplates. Get good quality studs and locknuts.
>
> Kevin

Also, don't forget that you will need to have hardened exhaust seats
installed on the C8VE heads, unless you plan to run lead addative in the
engine... I just had a set of these heads worked over, and they were
complete, and I spent ~$300... Of course his was 3 angle, milling, and I
think they replaced two valves.... and installed spring spacers... You
could sink some money into those heads if you're not careful...

Brad


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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 15:50:31 -0800
From: "O'Connell, Dennis M" pge.com>
Subject: RE: FTE Perf - RE: 429/460 heads

Actually you can machine the early heads for pedestal mounts. I believe the
Crane cam or comp cam site even has instructions. Then you can use the big
block chevy studs with roller rockers, hardened pushrods and guideplates.
Crane makes a 1.73 ratio roller rocker. I tried the BB chevy steel rollers
and ran into all sorts of geometry problems. As soon as I went with the
needle bearing rockers problem solved.

Dennis
55F100

> ----------
> From: Brad Smith[SMTP:fishinbrad mindspring.com]
> Reply To: perf-list ford-trucks.com
> Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2000 3:04 PM
> To: perf-list ford-trucks.com
> Subject: Re: FTE Perf - RE: 429/460 heads
>
>
>
>
> > If my memory is correct (and sometimes it fails miserably), the '73
> heads
> > (D3V...) are pedestal mount rockers. The early heads, are stuf mount.
> > Unless of course, someone, or you already had them machined for stud
> > mount.
> >
> > Machining the early heads for pedestal mount, is not to my knowledge
> > possible, or at least not to any advantage.
> >
> >
> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
>
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 16:45:00 -0800
From: George Miller lv.rmci.net>
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - Adjusting rockers

Ford manuals recommend shorter/longer pushrods. I use Crane lock nuts
which have an allen head lock screw, eliminating the original lock nuts.
They allow you to adjust your lifter preload. I've experimented with
preload and find that anything from 1/4 to 1/2 turn works fine for me.
Some of the serious people use just contact to 1/8 turn.

George Miller

am14 daimlerchrysler.com wrote:
>
> Is there a really good reason the early 429/460 stud mounted type rockers
> can't be adjusted by using lock nuts on top of the adjusting nuts, rather
> than just driving the nuts down to the stop??? When doing valve grinding
> jobs and due to normal wear and sinking of the valve into the head, there
> comes into play the fact that bottoming the adjusting nut down to the
> positive stop sometimes has the lifter almost totally collapsed. Does
> anyone have some advise for this old man on this. Hopefully so.
>
> Azie
> Ardmore, Al.
>
> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 19:47:19 -0500
From: Sleddog epix.net>
Subject: RE: FTE Perf - RE: 429/460 heads

Crane may have that info, but that would most likely be that they want you
to purchase their pedestal adjustable rocker kit. I have this kit on an
engine, and it works ok, but if a head is already set up for stud mount,
just get the studs, rockers, guideplates, and nuts, and forget about the
machineing for the pedestal mounts and buying the kit.

The kit is really only worth the effort for later pedestal mount heads,
that you need to change to adjustable. Still no idea of the longevity of
their plastic pushrod guides on in the kit. Someday, I'll do a teardown of
that engine, and find out. Not that the engine has many miles on it. a
few hundred maybe, mostly a few hundred feet at a time....

kevin

- ----------
From: O'Connell, Dennis M[SMTP:DMO1 pge.com]
Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2000 6:50 PM
To: 'perf-list ford-trucks.com'
Subject: RE: FTE Perf - RE: 429/460 heads

Actually you can machine the early heads for pedestal mounts. I believe
the
Crane cam or comp cam site even has instructions. Then you can use the big
block chevy studs with roller rockers, hardened pushrods and guideplates.
Crane makes a 1.73 ratio roller rocker. I tried the BB chevy steel
rollers
and ran into all sorts of geometry problems. As soon as I went with the
needle bearing rockers problem solved.

Dennis
55F100

> ----------
> From: Brad Smith[SMTP:fishinbrad mindspring.com]
> Reply To: perf-list ford-trucks.com
> Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2000 3:04 PM
> To: perf-list ford-trucks.com
> Subject: Re: FTE Perf - RE: 429/460 heads
>
>
>
>
> > If my memory is correct (and sometimes it fails miserably), the '73
> heads
> > (D3V...) are pedestal mount rockers. The early heads, are stuf mount.
> > Unless of course, someone, or you already had them machined for stud
> > mount.
> >
> > Machining the early heads for pedestal mount, is not to my knowledge
> > possible, or at least not to any advantage.
> >
> >
> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
>
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 17:02:52 -0800
From: George Miller lv.rmci.net>
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - RE: 429/460 heads (hardened seats)

I still can't find anyone who has experienced a failure from unleaded
fuel eating up the seats on a 385 series head. I put over 45,000 hard
miles on one set running nothing but unleaded gas without hardened seats
and, upon tearing them down, couldn't see any deterioration. I've spoken
to several people with a lot more hard miles than that on those heads
who haven't had problems. There are still a bunch of old 429/460 'Birds
and Lincolns still running with the original motors and leaded gas
hasn't been available to the consumer in a long time. Machinists tell me
it happens; they also tell me it's not a major problem. I don't mean to
start an argument and I'm pretty concerned about quality when it comes
to my toys but I sure would like to hear a first-hand story about a
failure on the 385 heads from running unleaded gas without hardened
seats.

George Miller
>
> Also, don't forget that you will need to have hardened exhaust seats
> installed on the C8VE heads, unless you plan to run lead addative in the
> engine... I just had a set of these heads worked over, and they were
> complete, and I spent ~$300... Of course his was 3 angle, milling, and I
> think they replaced two valves.... and installed spring spacers... You
> could sink some money into those heads if you're not careful...
>
> Brad
>
> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 22:39:45 EST
From: JUMPINFORD AOL.COM
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - 429/460 heads

In a message dated 1/18/00 9:35:22 AM Pacific Standard Time, kevkem epix.net
writes:

< < The BBC parts have a different rocker ratio. > >

Do you know what the two different ratios are?

Darrell Duggan
74 F-350 "Tweety"
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 23:42:29 -0600
From: "Joel Thomas" prodigy.net>
Subject: FTE Perf - 1/2-1 ton

I have a 1984 F-150
that I am going to convert to leaf springs
front with dana 60 and
change the 9" for a floater 10.25 in
rear

my question is can someone please tell me how
thier leaf springs bolt on on the front
i know the back braket on the front spring is just that a normal bracket
but the front how does the shackel go on??
thanks and does anybody want to buy a perfectly good
dana44TTB front or a 9" with totally new breaks??
or does anybody have any 8 lug wheels that want to trade for
5lug chromies.

thanks and please email direct to me.


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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 00:51:31 -0500
From: Sleddog epix.net>
Subject: RE: FTE Perf - 429/460 heads

Not off the top of my head. The early ford is 1.73, later was 1.7 I think.
The chevy is 1.7 or 1.6,but again, I am not sure. I wouldn't mind pulling
out my notes, but during my last move, everything is misplaced or
completely lost. Still looking for so many things....

kevin

- ----------
From: JUMPINFORD AOL.COM[SMTP:JUMPINFORD AOL.COM]
Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2000 10:39 PM
To: perf-list