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From: owner-perf-list-digest ford-trucks.com (perf-list-digest)
To: perf-list-digest ford-trucks.com
Subject: perf-list-digest V2 #327
Reply-To: perf-list ford-trucks.com
Sender: owner-perf-list-digest ford-trucks.com
Errors-To: owner-perf-list-digest ford-trucks.com
Precedence: bulk


perf-list-digest Wednesday, December 22 1999 Volume 02 : Number 327



=======================================================================
Ford Truck Enthusiasts - Performance
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In this issue:

FTE Perf - Loser with a Die Grinder needs Help
RE: FTE Perf - Loser with a Die Grinder needs Help
FTE Perf - Emissions test
RE: FTE Perf - Hard Blok?
RE: FTE Perf - Loser with a Die Grinder needs Help

=======================================================================

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 06:41:18 -0500
From: Janet Kelly on.aibn.com>
Subject: FTE Perf - Loser with a Die Grinder needs Help

I was just putting the final touches on porting and polishing my brand
new World Products Windsor Senior Aluminum heads - I m talking a good 15
hrs work per head, and I am on the last exhaust port, raising the roof
to match a set of Fel Pro gaskets, full bowl, full port and polish,
everything, when I cut through the top of the front exhaust port roof
(would be #5 cylinder).

It appears that World Products, has a tapped accessory hole that comes
in from the front face of the head (installed, it would be the mounting
boss that faces the radiator, drivers side, or when the heads on the
bench, its on at the left end of the head when you have the valves
turned up facing you).

Anyway, this hole has been tapped back into the head, and its trajectory
is aligned to just come across the roof of the #5 exhaust port, but
stops before doing so right? Wrong! It actually continued much further
into the head than what is required for the mounting bolt. This hole
continues as a smaller diameter pilot hole that continues all the way
across the roof of the #5 exhaust port, and as cast, is very close to
the surface of the exhaust port roof!

At this point I started inventing new words to the English lanquage -
saying I was not a happy camper would be an understantment.

The only good news in this, is that I actually didnt cut into a water
jacket or anything - first thing I checked - definately no water jacket,
just this blind untapped bootm portion of that *%$# mounting hole - it
has got to be over 3 inches deep!

So my questions to you are this - I think I could just run a bolt in
from the end with some loctite and call it a day, effectively plugging
this hole from the outside, or should I take it to a welder and get it
solid filled, and the finish off the port with confidence?

The roof is currently quit thin now in this spot, if I plug the end hole
with a bolt, will the hot exhaust gases melt the thinnist parts and
widen the hole farther?
I still dont think it is a big deal, just high on the painal in the anal
scale, and I pass this expereince on to those who are planning on
hogging out their Dart Windsors SR's on the exhaust side - Watch out for
that first port!

Needless to say, any assistance/advice would be appreciated.
Jim - loser with a die grinder.
== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 09:36:05 -0500
From: "Brad DeFore" computerlogic.com>
Subject: RE: FTE Perf - Loser with a Die Grinder needs Help

Jim, if it were me I would do it right while there. As in taking it to the
welder to fill the hole. I would say there is a high probability that it
would indeed widen with the heat and it would alter the flow
characteristics/volume of just that one cylinder. Seeing on how you've
already spent the time to clean it up, you really want to do it the best way
you can. After he's through you can go back and re-port it to your hearts
content and not have to worry bout it.

- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-perf-list ford-trucks.com
[mailto:owner-perf-list ford-trucks.com]On Behalf Of Janet Kelly
Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 1999 6:41 AM
To: perf-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: FTE Perf - Loser with a Die Grinder needs Help


I was just putting the final touches on porting and polishing my brand
new World Products Windsor Senior Aluminum heads - I m talking a good 15
hrs work per head, and I am on the last exhaust port, raising the roof
to match a set of Fel Pro gaskets, full bowl, full port and polish,
everything, when I cut through the top of the front exhaust port roof
(would be #5 cylinder).

It appears that World Products, has a tapped accessory hole that comes
in from the front face of the head (installed, it would be the mounting
boss that faces the radiator, drivers side, or when the heads on the
bench, its on at the left end of the head when you have the valves
turned up facing you).

Anyway, this hole has been tapped back into the head, and its trajectory
is aligned to just come across the roof of the #5 exhaust port, but
stops before doing so right? Wrong! It actually continued much further
into the head than what is required for the mounting bolt. This hole
continues as a smaller diameter pilot hole that continues all the way
across the roof of the #5 exhaust port, and as cast, is very close to
the surface of the exhaust port roof!

At this point I started inventing new words to the English lanquage -
saying I was not a happy camper would be an understantment.

The only good news in this, is that I actually didnt cut into a water
jacket or anything - first thing I checked - definately no water jacket,
just this blind untapped bootm portion of that *%$# mounting hole - it
has got to be over 3 inches deep!

So my questions to you are this - I think I could just run a bolt in
from the end with some loctite and call it a day, effectively plugging
this hole from the outside, or should I take it to a welder and get it
solid filled, and the finish off the port with confidence?

The roof is currently quit thin now in this spot, if I plug the end hole
with a bolt, will the hot exhaust gases melt the thinnist parts and
widen the hole farther?
I still dont think it is a big deal, just high on the painal in the anal
scale, and I pass this expereince on to those who are planning on
hogging out their Dart Windsors SR's on the exhaust side - Watch out for
that first port!

Needless to say, any assistance/advice would be appreciated.
Jim - loser with a die grinder.
== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 10:15:03 -0800
From: "Bill Beyer" pacifier.com>
Subject: FTE Perf - Emissions test

Don't want to get a whole debate going but I just thought I'd throw an FYI
out here: My 1979 F250 4X4 with bone stock 400 including the factory 2V just
passed the emissions test in Wa state with flying colors despite having had
the cats removed several years ago by the P.O.

The test in WA on 4WD vehicles is a simple 2 speed, idle and cruise with no
NOx measurement. 2WD vehicles must take the dyno test which I believe does
include NOx readings.

For the 2 speed, HC, CO and CO+CO2 are measured. Standards are max 600 ppm
HC, max 3% CO, >6% CO+CO2 at both cruise and idle. My truck did 378 ppm HC
idle, 26 cruise, 0.34% CO idle, 0.08% cruise, and 8.95% CO+CO2 idle,
9.83 cruise.

I did have to go out and buy 2 new gas caps since they started measuring
evap emissions last year. So I bought the two cheapest Stant caps I could
find for $3.99 a piece, put them on in the parking lot for the test then
changed back to my locking ones after the test. The new ones go in the spare
parts box 'til my next test in 2001. What a joke!


"If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, riddle them with bullets"



== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 13:28:27 -0500
From: Sleddog epix.net>
Subject: RE: FTE Perf - Hard Blok?

Having the block filled, means you will more than likely be fixing cooling
problems. Sometimes it is easily overcome, by adding water lines to the
back of the heads coming forward. Sometimes that won't even do it.

As for the fill, yes, it can come apart. In my block, 8 years still has
not damaged the block fill yet. I have seen, less than a few runs on a
block that the fill was crunbling. It may crumble, from the twist the
block sees under extreme power. It may also crumble from the fill not
being applied while the block has torque plates torqued onto the deck, and
the right kind for the heads (aluminum or steel) for the heads that will be
run. Some people even like to bolt up the main caps when filling. Req'd?
I dunno.

When I got my block, used, and already filled up to the H2O pump line,
there was a cylinder that was cracked. Many places won't sleeve a cylinder
in a filled block. Also, even though it is filled, the cylinders are so
thin that they do move around alot. Every cylinder in my block was honed,
to bring the sizes up to my maximum clearance, and even out the cylinders.
Every one, was a bit egg shaped to start with, and the walls are so thin,
that each time they were measured during the honing process, in the words
of the machinest - "...they where moving all over the place."

Next time i want to build a motor that needs a big bore, I will get a race
block and keep full water jackets. Sure, keeping the cylinders hot, and
the oil cool, is one thing that block fill can do, and that is good, but in
*my* block the oil temp gets hot fast, and very hot. Hot enough that my
idle oil pressure drops from something like 70, down to 20 after the water
temp hits around 150-160 deg. I think I know why this is for me, as my
block isn't oil restricted to the top end, the oil is cooling the heads as
much as the water is. Eventually, I will cure it all.

And for sure, for the same size engine a big bore gives more power than a
bigger stroke (within certain limitations of course). But if that little
bit is needed, a race block is the only way to go IMO.

As for the price, i don't know. It cannot to my knowledge, be removed in
any way worth the effort.

Any help?

Kevin

- ----------
From: Steve Randa[SMTP:sranda ch-advertising.com]
Sent: Monday, December 20, 1999 3:24 PM
To: perf-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: FTE Perf - Hard Blok?

Any one have an opinion on filling a block partially with hard block on
an everyday driver. Is there any chance this stuff might come apart and
start floating around blocking passages? Could it be removed by a via an
acid bath or other process?

I'm talking right now to a guy with this setup for sale:

1969 351W Block-align honed,decked & squared,bored .030 over
- --ARP Head studs
- --DSS main support girdle w/main studs
- --lower part of cylinders filled w/hard block

4340 Forged Steel Crankshaft-4.00 stroke/2.100 rod journals combined
w/.030 block will make 408 c.i.

He wants $875
Application aside, is this a good deal?



== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 13:53:08 -0500
From: Sleddog epix.net>
Subject: RE: FTE Perf - Loser with a Die Grinder needs Help

*Every* exhaust port on my heads, has a small break into a bolt hole. It
will not, if it is small enough, effect anything. Larger, may inhibit flow
but most likely not. And, a little exhaust leaking out around a bolt head
is generally not a problem. Just be sure to use antiseize there.

Kevin

- ----------
From: Janet Kelly[SMTP:jkelly on.aibn.com]
Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 1999 6:41 AM
To: perf-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: FTE Perf - Loser with a Die Grinder needs Help

I was just putting the final touches on porting and polishing my brand
new World Products Windsor Senior Aluminum heads - I m talking a good 15
hrs work per head, and I am on the last exhaust port, raising the roof
to match a set of Fel Pro gaskets, full bowl, full port and polish,
everything, when I cut through the top of the front exhaust port roof
(would be #5 cylinder).....


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