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To: perf-list-digest ford-trucks.com
Subject: perf-list-digest V2 #316
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perf-list-digest Thursday, December 9 1999 Volume 02 : Number 316



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Ford Truck Enthusiasts - Performance
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In this issue:

RE: [RE: [FTE Perf - tires]]
RE: [RE: FTE Perf - almost 360]
RE: FTE Perf - FE Cleveland swap
RE: [Re: [FTE Perf - tires]]
FTE Perf - F-E to Cleveland swap ?
FTE Perf - ADMIN: New server
FTE Perf - ADMIN: ALL NEW SERVICES ON THE FTE WEB SITE
FTE Perf - ADMIN: New events guide
FTE Perf - 79 2wd lift
Re: [RE: [RE: [FTE Perf - tires]]]
Re: [RE: [RE: FTE Perf - almost 360]]

=======================================================================

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Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 08:42:09 -0600
From: "William S. Hart"
Subject: RE: [RE: [FTE Perf - tires]]

> Of course the lower the profile the less 'forgiving' the tire as
> it approaches
> it's limits of cornering. I'm sure all us A-X people know that,
> but it bears
> reminding.

You're saying its a fairly sudden failure when they do roll off the rim?
Yeah it likely would be I guess ... never had it happen locally, I suppose
if you had a track that got some good grip, or a tire that wasn't sized
right for the rim it would be a problem, but out here apparently our
"tracks" are too dirty :)


> Look at NASCAR; they talk about 1/2 PSI adjustments for
> handling.. I might
> suggest taking a pressure adjustment after the tire cools to get
> an idea of
> the difference needed also if it's going to be a while before the
> next run.
>

hey Tim, I think Nascar is also going 180+ mph on race tires that you want
heat in ... as opposed to the street tires that you dont' want to heat up
and the somewhat lower speeds of auto-x :)

The warm/cold thing on the tires, that's kind of debatable, but as long as
you are consistent when you check them ... also remember that if you have a
hard turn right before the exit one side will be warmer (hence higher
pressure) than the other ...

Actually the last couple of races, I just checked to make sure they were
reasonable pressures and sure enough by the time the sun got them all warmed
up and the first run was started they were all up to the pressures they were
supposed to be ... it was great actually, once I got them sorted out I was
able to leave them ... though the 20 deg. temp drop required me to add some
the second to last race, I was able to just bolt them on and go for the last
one :)

Some people are really nuts about tires and making them perform to their
optimum, I was like that for about 3 races, then I decided to just relax and
have some fun :) Also helped getting them dialed in a bit :)

I also get really frustrated when someone pulls in in a car almost identical
to mine and they get 4 different stories from people with the prev.
generation, or the guy with the Camaro 'cause he's fast ... none of them
have actually driven a car like mine competitively, yet they're all experts
and know exactly what she should do :) Sorry, that's my personal issues
with the last couple of races, but I think she got it sorted out ... a lot
of the experience you get does come from listening to other people and
trying some of the stuff ... I have run a mini-formula car, an 87 GT, my 96
GT, even did a fun run in a hopped up 4cyl (about 150hp N/A 2.3L :) And
then traded rides with a guy in an F-Stock 85 GT so we could each see the
differences in the cars first hand ... his advantage was a lower torque band
and better tires .. mine was a much smoother car (not as peaky in the motor)
and a bigger tire to start with ... now that I've got some sticky tires I
can push right up next to him for times ...

Hope all this helps ... hopefully next year I'll get a race or two to run
Dad's new (93) Lightning in :) That should definitely be entertaining :)

Just my $.02
wish

96 Mustang GT 5spd 4.6L
73ish 1/2ton 4x4 6.4L
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish

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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 08:46:27 -0600
From: "William S. Hart"
Subject: RE: [RE: FTE Perf - almost 360]

> And I thank them for that! GM (Great Mistake) in the 80's had
> two 5.0s (Chevy
> 305& Olds 307), 2 2.0s (OHV & OHC) & 2 3.8s (229 & 231 CID). Some days it
> seems like I spend 1/2 my time trying to get the RIGHT part amongst those
> engines
>

hahahaha ... amen, don't forget the 5.7's, there were what 3 of them and a
diesel? :) There's the 5.7 Olds, the 5.7 Buick, and the 5.7 Chevy right?
And the Olds could have come with any one of them ... always fun when they
said they had a 5.7 Olds :)

> Too bad Ford never marketed a 5.8 'Tang! As I recall when we
> went to Liters
> the 'new generation' Camaros were 5.0 and it was a few years later they
> decided to drop in the TPI 5.7
>

Probably had something to do with the 0-60 times being somewhere around 10
sec. vs. Ford's 7 sec :) There was 1 5.8L 'stang offered, the 95 Cobra R
:) What a machine, I'd love to have one some day, but they are still 30K +
:(

> And we
> criticize NASA for failing to translate Metrics properly once...
>

Hehehehe ... oh yeah I forgot about the new LS1, its also a 5.7, but only
347 ci ... no confusion gonna happen there is it ? :) But I doubt anyone
will confuse it with the 347 first offered in the 57 Bonneville's with Fuel
Injection ... does this mean they've come full circle now ?

> DEflating the HP claims for insurance/liability purposes but
> that's certainly
> rarer than INflation! :-)
>

I think we all wish we had the deflation problems in our hp figurings :)

Just my $.02
wish

96 Mustang GT 5spd 4.6L
73ish 1/2ton 4x4 6.4L
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish

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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 08:48:30 -0600
From: "William S. Hart"
Subject: RE: FTE Perf - FE Cleveland swap

> I am in the beginning processes of re-powering my ' 69 F-100 360
> 3spd. with
> a 351 cleveland 4v together w/ the C-6 that came with it
> Sure could use some informed
> opinions.thanx in advance

Seems like there's a couple guys on the 61-79 list who have C's in their
trucks, but can't remember what years for sure ... not sure that's a lot of
help, but might get you somewhere else to ask around ... I'm sure the C
shares a motor mount with another 351, but can't remember if its the W or
the M, likely the W in which case you can just get the factory mounts for
the 351W and use those ... if they were available in trucks through 72 ....
one of those times where you're just out of my league ;)

Just my $.02
wish

96 Mustang GT 5spd 4.6L
73ish 1/2ton 4x4 6.4L
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish

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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 08:52:12 -0600
From: "William S. Hart"
Subject: RE: [Re: [FTE Perf - tires]]

> Just out of
> curiousity how do
> >the times of the small trucks compare to the 'wimpier' car classes?

> well, ummm the whimpiest that ever have any showing are some f-stock cars
> and they still get us by a pretty good margin (our courses are pretty
> tough).

hey take it easy on us F-stockers, we do the best we can :)

maybe someday I can make a trip down there to see you guys run ... the guys
on the Mustang boards are tryin to get me to go somewhere so we can get all
our cars together and compare suspensions ...should be a good day if we ever
manage that :) I'll try and let you guys know too as it could be fun to
watch a bunch of geeks with some modified 'stangs tryin to rag on each
others cars and find the strengths/weaknesses of each of the susupensions :)

Just my $.02
wish

96 Mustang GT 5spd 4.6L
73ish 1/2ton 4x4 6.4L
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish

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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 14:18:40 -0600
From: galaxie63 juno.com
Subject: FTE Perf - F-E to Cleveland swap ?

> From: JTLCON AOL.COM
> Subject: FTE Perf - FE to Cleveland swap
> I am in the beginning of re-powering my ' 69 F-100 360 3spd. with
a 351 Cleveland
> 4v together w/ the C-6 that came with it .However,since the Cleveland
was never a > standard power plant I am not certain what motor mounts I
should use?
===========================================================
John- if it is a Cleveland, then the block mounts are the same as a 289 /
302. The engine will "bolt in" to the frame with the corresponding
hardware for that combination. If in doubt, buy a 302 motor mount and
"try" it on your block. You'll just need those and the right towers to
fit the frame. The tranny should be easy. Good luck, Phil
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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 08 Dec 1999 20:10:56 -0500
From: Ken Payne
Subject: FTE Perf - ADMIN: New server

Ford Truck Enthusiasts is pleased to announce that we
now have a new dedicated server to host our web services.
This high powered machine will be able to handle several
million file hits per day (the current server does about
100,000-200,000 per day).

The system, in a nutshell:

500Mhz Pentium III
256 megabytes of RAM
10 gigabyte 10,000 RPM hard drive.
100 megabit network connection
Redhat Linux with secure SSL server
MAE-East and Neutral network backbone connections

Currently, FTE is hosted on two shared servers with a total
of 500 meg of drive space available to us. During the
next 2-3 weeks we will transition the site over to the new
server. You should not notice any changes other than
much faster response time. As part of the move, the entire
mailing archive will be placed online with full searching
capabilities! The archive takes about 200 meg of space.
Expect to see many new free services added to the site
as we leverage the power of this new server.

Regards,
Ken Payne
Admin, Ford Truck Enthusiasts

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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 08 Dec 1999 19:56:55 -0500
From: Ken Payne
Subject: FTE Perf - ADMIN: ALL NEW SERVICES ON THE FTE WEB SITE

Ford Truck Enthusiasts is pleased to announce the addition
of AutoGuide to web site. The AutoGuide features the
following services:

- - Price quote on a new or used truck, car or van. FREE
- - Insurance quote. FREE
- - Finance quote. FREE
- - Car Title Check, $17.50
- - Warranty purchase, varies
- - Personal credit check (useful to know BEFORE you go to
the dealer), $8.00
- - Auto accessories, varies

Check them out on the main page of the web site:
http://www.ford-trucks.com

We hope you find these services useful. Services such as
these enable us to continue to offer our free web services
to our users as we grow.

Regards,
Ken Payne
Admin, Ford Truck Enthusiasts



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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 08 Dec 1999 20:47:04 -0500
From: Ken Payne
Subject: FTE Perf - ADMIN: New events guide

Go to the main page of the web site (www.ford-trucks.com)
to see our all new events guide. This calendar based
guide will allow you to add your Ford truck events.

Enjoy!
Ken Payne
Admin, Ford Truck Enthusiasts

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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 21:29:21 EST
From: WJeff43 AOL.COM
Subject: FTE Perf - 79 2wd lift

Does anyone make a lift kit for "73-'79 2 wheel drive Ford F100 that doesn't
involve lowering the steering column into your lap? Bill Jeffreys
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------------------------------

Date: 8 Dec 99 23:26:12 EST
From: Tim Turner
Subject: Re: [RE: [RE: [FTE Perf - tires]]]

"William S. Hart" wrote:
> > Of course the lower the profile the less 'forgiving' the tire as
> > it approaches

> You're saying its a fairly sudden failure when they do roll off the rim=
?
> Yeah it likely would be I guess ... never had it happen locally, I =


Actually I was talking about the 'warning zone' the tire gives you before=

giving up it's traction. ;-)

> =

> > Look at NASCAR; they talk about 1/2 PSI adjustments for

> =

> hey Tim, I think Nascar is also going 180+ mph on race tires that you w=
ant

Quite true... just meant it to reinforce what diference it can actually m=
ake
when dealing with fractions of seconds for lap times. I agree with you t=
hat
we don't need to obsess over tire pressure; as amatuers we can probably g=
ain
more time with technique than tire pressure unless we're way out of the
ballpark on the air.


> Some people are really nuts about tires and making them perform to thei=
r
> optimum, I was like that for about 3 races, then I decided to just rela=
x
and
> have some fun :) Also helped getting them dialed in a bit :)

Amen! 1st or last I'll still get a dash plaque; sure trophies are nice,
but... it's not CASH! :-) :-) Bragging rights do have their value though=
;
just not enough for me to deter the fun of thrashing the vehicle with too=
much
thought about every little detail.

Tim

____________________________________________________________________
Get your own FREE, personal Netscape WebMail account today at http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://webm=
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------------------------------

Date: 8 Dec 99 23:39:23 EST
From: Tim Turner
Subject: Re: [RE: [RE: FTE Perf - almost 360]]

"William S. Hart" wrote:
> =


> hahahaha ... amen, don't forget the 5.7's, there were what 3 of them an=
d a
> diesel? :) There's the 5.7 Olds, the 5.7 Buick, and the 5.7 Chevy rig=
ht?
> And the Olds could have come with any one of them ... always fun when t=
hey
> said they had a 5.7 Olds :)

And GM lost a court battle over that too. Ol' boy was mad that his Olds =
had a
non Olds engine. I was in Tech school when that 5.7 diesel came out; whe=
w..
what fool engineer thought a gas engine block would hold up under that mu=
ch
extra compression? By the end of the year we had a pile of 'em with brok=
en
cranks/blocks.

> =

> > Too bad Ford never marketed a 5.8 'Tang! As I recall when we

> There was 1 5.8L 'stang offered, the 95 Cobra R
> :) What a machine, I'd love to have one some day, but they are still 3=
0K +
> :(

I "thought" there had been one but couldn't place it.. even thought about=

re-wording the sentence to 'mass produced 5.8' or some such but I knew so=
meone
would set me straight if so.
> > DEflating the HP claims for insurance/liability purposes but
> > that's certainly
> > rarer than INflation! :-)
> >
> =

> I think we all wish we had the deflation problems in our hp figurings :=....


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