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Subject: perf-list-digest V2 #314
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perf-list-digest Tuesday, December 7 1999 Volume 02 : Number 314



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Ford Truck Enthusiasts - Performance
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In this issue:

RE: [FTE Perf - tires]
RE: [FTE Perf - tires]
RE: [FTE Perf - tires]
RE: FTE Perf - almost 360
RE: [FTE Perf - tires]
RE: [FTE Perf - tires]
FTE Perf - Finally got it
FTE Perf - Location
FTE Perf - Re:351W - Speed Pro Piston H336P Flat Top Values

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Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 08:58:59 -0600
From: "William S. Hart"
Subject: RE: [FTE Perf - tires]

>
> (the
> truck / suv guys) always run in the same class (b/c no matter
> what all the
> other classes would whoop us)
> >>
> Jordan,
> Ahhh...how mistaken you are. I know of at least 3 or 4 Lightning
> F150's that
> consistently place in the top five in SCCA events.


Hahahahahaha .... sorry guys gotta laugh ... you are both right ... there
are very vew truck specific classes ... I know they are experimenting with
them in the SE I think it was ... but the Ligthning is of course a different
breed of cat ...er truck, well anyway it gets plopped into the F-Stock
category (or ESP if modified) at most of the events I've been to ... which
puts it racing against its little cousin the 'stang ...

Anyway running the oversized/cross platform rims SHOULD kick you into the SP
class (street prepared), but because of the limited number of trucks and
such, likely they'll just leave you alone ...

As for actually damaging the car, I think most of the damage that would
occur from running the wrong offset would be long term sort of damage ...
ie, if you drove on them every day you might notice some problems ...
however auto-x can put some serious strains on the car, so you may not need
as many miles before you do run into problems ...

So now that I've totally side-stepped the issue, what exactly are you
worried about? Are you sure these will bolt on and not hit anything on your
steering ?

Just my $.02
wish

96 Mustang GT 5spd 4.6L
73ish 1/2ton 4x4 6.4L
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish

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Date: Mon, 06 Dec 1999 09:21:20 -0600
From: Jordan Dean
Subject: RE: [FTE Perf - tires]

>
>Anyway running the oversized/cross platform rims SHOULD kick you into the SP
>class (street prepared), but because of the limited number of trucks and
>such, likely they'll just leave you alone ...

They'll leave me alone, I need some advantages in my explorer b/c they all
have rangers (less body roll) . Plus, I didn't get these to get the
different size as much as just to have a second set of rims, alluminum rims
are expensive, but I picked up this set for 150 so figured what the heck.

>As for actually damaging the car, I think most of the damage that would
>occur from running the wrong offset would be long term sort of damage ...
>ie, if you drove on them every day you might notice some problems ...
>however auto-x can put some serious strains on the car, so you may not need
>as many miles before you do run into problems ...

Actually many of the aftermarket tuners use Cobra R rims so I'm not really
worried about that, they may not leave enough clearance so I may need some
spacers but they won't be sticking out hooptie style so it shouldn't do too
much with the strain.

>So now that I've totally side-stepped the issue, what exactly are you
>worried about? Are you sure these will bolt on and not hit anything on your
>steering ?

actually I was mostly asking about the actual tires. The tires (free with
the rims) are tires used on a mustang, I just wanted to know if there would
be serious problems with running these car tires on my explorer (little bit
of a weight difference) or if I could go ahead and use them till I cord
them (about 2 auto-x's)

-Jordan

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Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 10:22:06 -0600
From: "William S. Hart"
Subject: RE: [FTE Perf - tires]

> actually I was mostly asking about the actual tires. The tires
> (free with
> the rims) are tires used on a mustang, I just wanted to know if
> there would
> be serious problems with running these car tires on my explorer
> (little bit
> of a weight difference) or if I could go ahead and use them till I cord
> them (about 2 auto-x's)
>

Are they stock street tires ? If so there are likely NO problems running an
empty explorer on them ... they are a high performance tire with very little
sidewall ... you might check the weight ratings, but I dont think you'll be
comin to their maxes ...

Remember these are a 17" rim, the sidewall total is only about 4" (2 per
side) What this means is that you can run lower pressures and still not
worry about sidewall intrusion ...

I used to run mine at 40/35 (front/rear) but was able to back down to 37/34
if I remember right ... best thing to do is over inflate the tires before
you go (40/40 or 45/45 or something similar) ... then put the shoe polish on
the corners where you expect rollover (I usually go from the tread on down
to a line on the sidewall where the tread really ends, its usually a seam or
something) then after your first run check the tire pressures quickly (as
they will be warm and higher than when you started) and also check the shoe
polish ... if you have worn off all of it, you need more air, if you haven't
touched any of it you need less ... remember a couple PSI goes a long ways
when you're talking cornering ...

I might could get come pictures of how to do the tires if you (or anyone
else for that matter) are interested ... if this didn't make any sense lemme
know I'll try and clear it up ...

Just my $.02
wish

96 Mustang GT 5spd 4.6L
73ish 1/2ton 4x4 6.4L
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish

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Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 10:28:10 -0600
From: "William S. Hart"
Subject: RE: FTE Perf - almost 360

> If Ford can call a 4.9 liter a 5.0 liter

I still think Ford did this to avoid the confusion of having a 4.9L 6cyl and
a 4.9L V8 ... not that having at least 5 litres to the 5.7 of the Camaro
looked bad either :) Amazing how slow the Chubbie's 5.0's are though ...



> and the 427 was really a
> 425 if you
> did the math, I think you can go ahead and call it a 360
>

Wow, I'd never done the math before, but you're absolutely right ... I
wonder also how many other manuf. work that way ? I can't believe Ford's
the only one to actually inflate the size of their motors (I know they ALL
inflate HP)

Just my $.02
wish

96 Mustang GT 5spd 4.6L
73ish 1/2ton 4x4 6.4L
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish


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Date: Mon, 06 Dec 1999 12:28:35 -0600
From: Jordan Dean
Subject: RE: [FTE Perf - tires]

>
>Are they stock street tires ? If so there are likely NO problems running an
>empty explorer on them ... they are a high performance tire with very little
>sidewall ... you might check the weight ratings, but I dont think you'll be
>comin to their maxes ...

Excellent, that's what I was looking for, someone who actually has some
experience.

>I used to run mine at 40/35 (front/rear) but was able to back down to 37/34
>if I remember right ... best thing to do is over inflate the tires before
>you go (40/40 or 45/45 or something similar) ... then put the shoe polish on

wow, (I say that b/c my normal exp tires are like 32psi, so I guess these
need to be pretty high)


>I might could get come pictures of how to do the tires if you (or anyone
>else for that matter) are interested ... if this didn't make any sense lemme
>know I'll try and clear it up ...

actually, I've seen some people in the club down here do it, so I'm sure
they'd be happy to help (A&M is the friendliest place in the world, generally)
Thanks a bunch for your help.


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Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 13:20:39 -0600
From: "William S. Hart"
Subject: RE: [FTE Perf - tires]

> Excellent, that's what I was looking for, someone who actually has some
> experience.
>

http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish/autocross.html

you might find it fun if nothing else :)


> wow, (I say that b/c my normal exp tires are like 32psi, so I guess these
> need to be pretty high)
>

Yeah, that seems high at first, but ask others what they run street tires at
on the track ... the more sidewall the more pressure usually, so they'll
likely be runnin 45 and you'll probably end up somewhere around 38 in the
front at least ... you may not be able to run as much stagger as (difference
between front and rear) as I do 'cause there's more weight back there for
the expl. but you should still be able to get a little I think ... also be
sure and check them after every event for holes/gashes or whatever ... I
found one of mine had blistered on the inside of the rim ... I would've
never noticed it if I hadn't had a separate set of race tires ...

> actually, I've seen some people in the club down here do it, so I'm sure
> they'd be happy to help (A&M is the friendliest place in the
> world, generally)
> Thanks a bunch for your help.
>
No problem, I think you'll find the auto-x crowd to be generally very
helpful until you start beating them :) j/k there is almost always someone
willing to offer advice, you just gotta listen, and understand that what
works for them may or may not work for you, depending on your vehicle and
your driving skills ... the three things that will make you better : 1)
Practice 2) practice 3) practice ...

Just my $.02
wish

96 Mustang GT 5spd 4.6L
73ish 1/2ton 4x4 6.4L
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish

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Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 16:06:18 -0600
From: "William S. Hart"
Subject: FTE Perf - Finally got it

Well folks this weekend we finally got the Lightning from Chicago down to
Dad's house outside the Quad Cities (IL side). Unfortunately it rained and
snowed and almost everything else this weekend, so I didn't get to "play"
too much, but you can see some pics and read a little about the trip
(sometimes I get wordy and redundant, I repeat myself, I say things again
and again)...

Here's url : http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish/lightnin.html

you can also find a link to it from my "links" page ...

If any of you would like to contribute to the links page, just send me your
info, I'd be glad to put a pic of your truck up and a link to your page.

Just my $.02
wish

96 Mustang GT 5spd 4.6L
73ish 1/2ton 4x4 6.4L
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish

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Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 16:41:40 -0600
From: Mike Morton
Subject: FTE Perf - Location

I was just wondering how many people live in Northern IL. and Southern WI.
Say from Madison down as far as the Quad Cities. I don't need exact
addresses, just a rough idea on how many live in this general region. It
might be fun to go to Pigeon Forge as a group. If you would be interested
e-mail me directly at mmorto juno.com

Mike Morton
55 F100/460
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Date: Mon, 06 Dec 1999 20:36:06 -0500
From: Janet Kelly
Subject: FTE Perf - Re:351W - Speed Pro Piston H336P Flat Top Values

Jim here:

I am installing a built 351W that I bought second hand. Only 200 street
miles, and about 15 drags on the engine - everything in the short block
looks good. It has new Speed Pro (hyper) flat top pistons with the fly
cuts for big valves. I have decammed the motor from an SVO A351 (236/246
0.05 lift and 0.520/0.538 valve lift) to a Crane Powermax dual pattern
hydraulic H-272-2 (216/228 0.05 and 0.484/0.512 valve lift.) Same
rocker ratio of 1.6 in both cases.

I am putting on World Products aluminium Windsor SR heads with 2.02/1.60
S/S valves, out of the box, with some chamber clean up and blend work,
but no milling.

This combo will be going into a 3400 lb 69 Merc M100 2wd short box 1/2
ton, with a C4 auto, 2500 stall, and a shift kit.

My question is this - the Speed pro pistons worked with the last pair of
heads (reworked stockers, same 2.02/1.60 sized valves, but 58 cc volume)
and the higher lift cam, so I am assuming that they will work with my
new heads (will still check this out however before firing it up).

I need to know the dish volumes on these pistons before feeling totally
comfortable with this combination. The pistons are Speed
Pro-Hypereutectic H336P, flat top, 4 reliefs, that according to the
Speed pro web site yields 8.66 to 1 compression with 69 cc heads. My
heads are 64 CC, standard 351W stroke, +.04 bored over. Working
backwards, I get -15.2 cc's for the dish value on these pistons to get
to Speed Pros numbers, which would yield 9.2 to 9.3 compression ratio
with my new head combination.

Can the list gurus confirm my compression ratio calculations and the
dish value on these pistons. Speed Pros site sucked, and didn't have any
other useable information to hang my estimates on.

....


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