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Subject: perf-list-digest V2 #302
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perf-list-digest Tuesday, November 23 1999 Volume 02 : Number 302



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Ford Truck Enthusiasts - Performance
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In this issue:

RE: FTE Perf - Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 10:28:46 -0600
RE: FTE Perf - Shocks
RE: FTE Perf - exhaust
Re: FTE Perf - Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 10:28:46 -0600
RE: FTE Perf - Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 10:28:46 -0600
Re: FTE Perf - Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 10:28:46 -0600
FTE Perf - Ranger V8 swap
FTE Perf - Exhuast System for Explorer
Re: FTE Perf - Exhuast System for Explorer
FTE Perf - engine upgrade
Re: FTE Perf - exhaust
FTE Perf - holley carb jetting 4223cs carb

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Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 11:09:07 -0600
From: "William S. Hart"
Subject: RE: FTE Perf - Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 10:28:46 -0600

> Yes, I understand that when setting the timing to a specific number of
> degrees BTC, the vacuum advance must be disconnected and plugged,
> however in this case I'm just trying to find the best idle point, i.e.
> highest vacuum reading. With v.a. disconnected, it drops to about 30
> degrees BTC, which is still so far advanced that, when starting it, the
> engine is hard to turn over.

Hmmmm, that sounds like a lot of advance, it would be next to impossible to
start I would think ... check that timing chain, and also be sure that the
dist. isn't "jumped" off a notch ... put the piston at TDC and double check
the balancer to be sure its not slipped... then check the rotor in the dist.
be sure its pointing at #1 ... (could be 180 off, if so, spin the motor one
more time over) ...

If the dist. is moved way to one side of its travel, likely its put in just
a notch or so off on the gear ...

With this much advance I would think your motor would be pinging to beat the
band on regular gas, so I'm inclined to think the numbers are a bit off ...

Just my $.02
wish

96 Mustang GT 5spd 4.6L
73ish 1/2ton 4x4 6.4L
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish

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Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 11:13:12 -0600
From: "William S. Hart"
Subject: RE: FTE Perf - Shocks

> What?! One shock made it better?
> I have a 1988 BII, with 3" JD VR coil lift.

> > I have dual front shock on my 84 F-150
> > can I take one shock out to make it ride better?

2 totally different trucks and applications here ... the dual shocks on the
BII are needed to control the additional leverage and movement from the 3"
lift ...

An F150 owner worried about ride is probably driving a stock vehicle :)
also this truck weighs more originally and has more spring, but also has a
larger shock specc'ed ... likely the best option will be to remove one of
the shocks and replace the other with the spec for a "single shock" option
as just removing one may leave him with a shock that's actually too soft and
result in a lot of wheel hop and bounce on the highway ...


> > and which one should i take front or rear on the front??
> > thanks

Take the front one off if I remember right ... I know on the 73-79 its a
front one that's added ...

Just my $.02
wish

96 Mustang GT 5spd 4.6L
73ish 1/2ton 4x4 6.4L
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish

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Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 11:16:44 -0600
From: "William S. Hart"
Subject: RE: FTE Perf - exhaust

> and electric fan. When I put a Flowmaster cat back system (3"
> pipes) I seemed
> to lose low end torque. Is this possible or has my imagination
> out whack?

Its quite possible, 3" is good sized, but I'm surprised there's that much
restriction behind the cat, usually the cat is enough to create some back
pressure ... a smaller pipe will definitely solve the "problem" though ...
I'd bet you gained a few ponies on the top side though ...

> would also appreciate advice on how to get shop manuals (prefferably with
> pictures) to help me out. I don't want to make the same mistake
> with a 5.0
> i'm working on and i don't like that Mazda tranny in there.
> lot's of people
> tell where to go but don't give me directions.

Okay I'm a bit confused by this ... the 5.0 isn't going to have as much
problem with the loss of torque though ... especially if you stick with a
single exhaust on it ... I've never really considered the 5.0 to be much of
a truck motor though, my sister has one and in stock form its pretty gutless
... but with some mods it should wake up nicely ... (right wayne?)

Just my $.02
wish

96 Mustang GT 5spd 4.6L
73ish 1/2ton 4x4 6.4L
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish

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Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 12:09:09 -0600
From: Neal Armstrong
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 10:28:46 -0600

"William S. Hart" wrote:
>
> > Yes, I understand that when setting the timing to a specific number of
> > degrees BTC, the vacuum advance must be disconnected and plugged,
> > however in this case I'm just trying to find the best idle point, i.e.
> > highest vacuum reading. With v.a. disconnected, it drops to about 30
> > degrees BTC, which is still so far advanced that, when starting it, the
> > engine is hard to turn over.
>
> Hmmmm, that sounds like a lot of advance

Right on! That's what has me scratching my head.

> it would be next to impossible to start I would think

Except since that's the only way it'll run, so it will start, just
labors when turning over.

> ... check that timing chain,

next on the list - just trying to see if I've missed something before
tearing into the front dress.


> and also be sure that the dist. isn't "jumped" off a notch ... put the piston at TDC and double check
> the balancer to be sure its not slipped... then check the rotor in the dist.
> be sure its pointing at #1 ... (could be 180 off, if so, spin the motor one
> more time over) ...

Done and done. Balancer is right on; yup, rotor pointing at #1 when
doing "static" timing - just barely runs at that setting, however. (A
302 won't run 180 degrees off - just backfires through the carb from
my experience.)

>
> If the dist. is moved way to one side of its travel

(it's not)


> likely its put in just a notch or so off on the gear ...

Weeell, I "think" the location of the distributor housing is just
relative. You normally move it a notch one way or another to put the
v.a. connection pointing straight forward so as not to interfere with
the rad hose, etc. The actual location of the housing (within a notch
one way or the other) should have no effect on the timing as long as the
rotor points at #1 at TDC. Please correct me if I'm wrong here!!

>
> With this much advance I would think your motor would be pinging to beat the
> band on regular gas, so I'm inclined to think the numbers are a bit off ...

This is a 10.5:1 engine, so I run 92 octane normally. Pinging isn't
prevalent BUT (new development) this weekend it developed a miss. This
engine has new plug wires and new plugs. Put the old plugs back in, but
miss is still there. I'm beginning to suspect I have a cam that is
either set wrong (very possible, although lining up two dots on the
timing gears shouldn't be too hard), or it's mis-ground on one or more
lobes (not probable, but possible) and which ever it is has presented me
with a burned valve. Haven't done a compression or leak-down yet, but
will in a couple of days, along with testing the individual wires.

Thanks for the input, Mr. Hart.

Neal

>
> Just my $.02
> wish
>
> 96 Mustang GT 5spd 4.6L
> 73ish 1/2ton 4x4 6.4L
> http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish
>
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 13:34:39 -0600
From: "William S. Hart"
Subject: RE: FTE Perf - Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 10:28:46 -0600

> > it would be next to impossible to start I would think
>
> Except since that's the only way it'll run, so it will start, just
> labors when turning over.
>

Pointing to a timing chain that jumped ...

> > ... check that timing chain,
>
> next on the list - just trying to see if I've missed something before
> tearing into the front dress.
>

You don't need to tear that down!

Just find the right socket for your main harmonic balancer bolt (not the
pulley bolts on the outside) ... put a big old pull bar/breakerbar/pipe
extension on so you can turn the motor by hand ... then pull the dist. cap
... see how much play there is by turning the motor back and forth and
seeing how far it moves before the rotor starts to turn ... shouldn't be
more than a few degrees ...

> Done and done. Balancer is right on; yup, rotor pointing at #1 when
> doing "static" timing - just barely runs at that setting, however. (A
> 302 won't run 180 degrees off - just backfires through the carb from
> my experience.)
>

Not too many motors (read none correctly) will run 180 off, I just meant you
could be on the exhaust stroke instead of the compression stroke ...

> Weeell, I "think" the location of the distributor housing is just
> relative. The actual location of the housing (within a notch
> one way or the other) should have no effect on the timing as long as the
> rotor points at #1 at TDC. Please correct me if I'm wrong here!!
>

Duh, no you're right, I'm just kind of being stupid ... actually what I was
thinking was that it might be off a notch and twisted so far that it was
actually changing your firing order (moving the last one to the first one)
that would give you weird firing stuffs I would think, but the likelyhood of
that isn't very great ...

> This is a 10.5:1 engine, so I run 92 octane normally. Pinging isn't
> prevalent BUT (new development) this weekend it developed a miss. This
> engine has new plug wires and new plugs. Put the old plugs back in, but
> miss is still there.

Yikes, 10.5:1 is pretty high ... aluminum heads on it ? but without pinging
on this much compression it HAS to be reading wrong ... well doesn't have
to, but very very very very unlikely that you're really runnin 30deg
advance!


> I'm beginning to suspect I have a cam that is
> either set wrong (very possible, although lining up two dots on the
> timing gears shouldn't be too hard), or it's mis-ground on one or more
> lobes (not probable, but possible)

That could be ... but my truck exhibited similar symptoms with a worn timing
chain ... this was later compounded by a stuck float in the rear of my 4V
that caused gas to spill into the manifold and flood out below 2000rpm's ...
after changing those two things, the truck ran better than it had in years
...

> with a burned valve. Haven't done a compression or leak-down yet, but
> will in a couple of days, along with testing the individual wires.
>
Always a good idea with goofy stuffs like this happening ...

> Thanks for the input, Mr. Hart.

Not a problem ... I may have asked this before, but it seems like a pretty
healthy engine ... had it running long, or just one of those things? Also
what year is it ?

Sorry for being nosey, but you've piqued my curiosity now :)

Just my $.02
wish

96 Mustang GT 5spd 4.6L
73ish 1/2ton 4x4 6.4L
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish

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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 14:33:24 -0600
From: Neal Armstrong
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 10:28:46 -0600

"William S. Hart" wrote:
>
>
> You don't need to tear that down!
>
> Just find the right socket for your main harmonic balancer bolt (not the
> pulley bolts on the outside) ... put a big old pull bar/breakerbar/pipe
> extension on so you can turn the motor by hand ... then pull the dist. cap
> ... see how much play there is by turning the motor back and forth and
> seeing how far it moves before the rotor starts to turn ... shouldn't be
> more than a few degrees ...

This is virtually a new motor - new double roller timing chain and
gears. I can't imagine a jumped chain.

>
> Yikes, 10.5:1 is pretty high ... aluminum heads on it ?

No, original '68 small chamber iron heads but with hardened seats and
3-angle valve job.

but without pinging
> on this much compression it HAS to be reading wrong ... well doesn't have
> to, but very very very very unlikely that you're really runnin 30deg
> advance!
>

Obviously somthin' is out of whack, huh??

> Not a problem ... I may have asked this before, but it seems like a pretty
> healthy engine

That was my intent - hasn't panned out real well so far, though! I
built it with 20-over hyperutectic flat-top pistons, file-fit rings, ARP
rod bolts, had it balanced, also have a Performer RPM intake and 600 cfm
Edelbrock carb with K&N filter.

... had it running long, or just one of those things? Also
> what year is it ?

It's a '68 engine, and has less than 5K on the rebuild. I've redone
engines based on purchased short blocks, or had someone else do the
short block, but this was my first from scratch.
>
> Sorry for being nosey, but you've piqued my curiosity now :)

That's what the list is for, right?
>
Neal
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Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 16:28:51 -0500
From: am14 daimlerchrysler.com
Subject: FTE Perf - Ranger V8 swap

To all that answered my V8 into a Ranger fit, I say a hearty "Thanks"..

Azie
Ardmore, Al.,


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Date: 22 Nov 99 15:17:16 PST
From: clement chang
Subject: FTE Perf - Exhuast System for Explorer

In search of info on the performance , driveability, bang for the buck, a=
nd
most important installation tips- do's and don'ts.Especially for info
on Headers.

Research so far SVO ceramic coated stainless shorty offering, SVO Grade=
8
bolt kit, Mr.Gasket Solid Copper Hi Perf gaskets.
Have access to lift , shop equipment.


Keep stock Cat for now.

Picked Borla Cat -back system.Upgrade to KN Filter.

Goals- no towing, no offroad, just want better acceleration on highways =
and
on ramps, better exhuast note than Ford's stone deaf(USAF stealth capable=

stock offering)Not too loud to wake the neighbors or significant other a=
fter
a boys nite out. Something to give a Chevy a little warning
not to chance it.:)

____________________________________________________________________
Get your own FREE, personal Netscape WebMail account today at http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://webm=
ail.netscape.com.
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 17:34:03 -0600
From: Jordan Dean
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - Exhuast System for Explorer

>
>Picked Borla Cat -back system.Upgrade to KN Filter.

Good choice on the Borla, if yours comes with 2 venturi's (mine for a 4.0l
did- one was already welded in) I suggest not installing them, if you
later decide it's too loud then you can install them into the system.

if you are talking about just a kn filter, I HIGHLY suggest getting a whole
replacement system, they make a lot more of a difference than just the filter.
-Jordan Dean
'93 explorer borla/kustomz intake (auto-x monster)

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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 16:16:58 -0800 (PST)
From: Ryan Reinke
Subject: FTE Perf - engine upgrade

Hey all!

Bad news, I missed a stop sign Saturday and caught a
Nissan. My truck looks real bad. (Was a 97 sb, sc,
4.6 w/ manual, off road)

I stopped at the dealer for an estimate and for grins
asked about my dream truck - a HD250 shortbox, 4X4,
standard cab, diesel, w/ manual. No dice.

What is it going to take to transplant a newer diesel
into the described truck? I have heard that the newer
diesels get 25 to 35 miles per gallon.

Thanks,
Ryan Reinke
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
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Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 20:27:25 EST
From: FLR150 AOL.COM
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - exhaust

In a message dated 11/22/99 12:17:22 PM Eastern Standard Time,
wish iastate.edu writes:

>
Wish,
You got that right!!!! =) I am getting ready as I type to go put on my new
Pro M massair meter and 30lb injectors. Then the chip off to Superchips for
retuning, and OH BROTHER, it should really wake it up. According to all the
figures I have seen and read about in the mags, I was way past the
performance potential for the 19lbers that were in there. But I should be
good until the 400+hp mark now. I will let you all know the results as soon
as I can either get it to a dyno or to the track to see the improvements.
Later
Wayne Foy
'94 Flareside SC
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Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 20:45:50 EST
From: Bogginf350 AOL.COM
Subject: FTE Perf - holley carb jetting 4223cs carb

ok.. where i race the rules have changed.... i can no longer run a double
pumper... so i searched for a center squirter carb. old 850....f ound one in....


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