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perf-list-digest Wednesday, November 10 1999 Volume 02 : Number 290



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Ford Truck Enthusiasts - Performance
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In this issue:

RE: FTE Perf - 351 Crank
FTE Perf - Warranties and Perf. Mods
RE: FTE Perf - Warranties and Perf. Mods
Re: FTE Perf - Warranties and Perf. Mods
RE: FTE Perf - Warranties and Perf. Mods
RE: FTE Perf - Warranties and Perf. Mods
RE: FTE Perf - Warranties and Perf. Mods
RE: FTE Perf - Warranties and Perf. Mods
RE: FTE Perf - Warranties and Perf. Mods
Re: FTE Perf - Warranties and Perf. Mods

=======================================================================

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1999 08:57:55 -0600
From: "William S. Hart"
Subject: RE: FTE Perf - 351 Crank

> I have a 79 351w block and I want to install my 93 351w crank.
> Everything looks pretty much the same except the rear is slightly
> different. The rear main seal is also totally different. I need to
> know if this crank will work fine in the older block using the older
> style rear main.

I've heard about the blocks changing, but never the cranks ... unless it was
an internal/external balance job ... your machine shop should be able to
tell you right away if something's different ...

Just my $.02
wish

96 Mustang GT 5spd 4.6L
73ish 1/2ton 4x4 6.4L
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish

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Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1999 10:40:38 -0600
From: jmann living.com
Subject: FTE Perf - Warranties and Perf. Mods

Good morning Gents,

Well my 2000 5.4 Lariat 4x4 should be rolling in sometime next week. In the
mean time I've been conjuring up all kinds of performance mods to make to it
once it gets here. But the overriding question is what will void a warranty
and what wont?

Here are a few mods I was thinking about:
K&N filter
Power pulleys
Electric cooling fans
Synthetic oils
Low Temp thermostat.
Mass Airflow Sensor
Big Bore Throttle Body
ECM Chip
Bullet proof the 4R70W Tranny with Art Carr mods
Whipple type Supercharger

Of course the last 2 will probably void the warranty. But I've always heard
that the dealer/manufacturer has to prove that the modification caused the
failure, and that a mod by it self does not constitute a voided warranty.

Joe


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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1999 10:54:13 -0600
From: "William S. Hart"
Subject: RE: FTE Perf - Warranties and Perf. Mods

> Of course the last 2 will probably void the warranty. But I've
> always heard
> that the dealer/manufacturer has to prove that the modification caused the
> failure, and that a mod by it self does not constitute a voided warranty.
>
>

While it is true that they do have to prove that it caused it, lots of times
they will say something like the extra power caused premature failure ... it
can be pretty sticky when it gets down to it ... if you have a good dealer
and can talk with them, then likely you will not have any problems, but you
might get to know the service manager pretty well before doing too much to
it ...

Lots of guys on the Mustang boards have had issues with their service depts
trying to void stuff so they end up going to a different dealer that's more
"mod friendly" The last two were pretty big ones, the others I don't think
will hurt you too badly if at all ... I would definitely drive it for a
while to be sure all the bugs were out before starting any mods on it ...

Just my $.02
wish

96 Mustang GT 5spd 4.6L
73ish 1/2ton 4x4 6.4L
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish

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Date: Tue, 09 Nov 1999 11:57:15 EST
From: "Gerald Ash"
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - Warranties and Perf. Mods

You are in for one heck of a shock my friend. You can use the synthetic oil
best to use Mobile One. The rest of it voids all warrantees and they can and
will find out. When you are at the Ford dealership signing all the papers
step back to the service area, most salesmen will take you there, and speak
with shop foreman or there warranty service rep..... He will answer all
those questions and not leave any doubts in your mind. After reading my new
car warranty from my Lincon Mercury Dealer I came up with one thought. They
make it, they sell it, and they will provide warranty service as long as it
remains in the same configuration that they designed it to operate in and
that is stock. If I were you I would drive it 12,000 to 24,000 miles and see
if it works, enjoy the ride. Beware of after-market products.


From: jmann living.com
Reply-To: perf-list ford-trucks.com
To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com, perf-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: FTE Perf - Warranties and Perf. Mods
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1999 10:40:38 -0600
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Good morning Gents,

Well my 2000 5.4 Lariat 4x4 should be rolling in sometime next week. In the
mean time I've been conjuring up all kinds of performance mods to make to it
once it gets here. But the overriding question is what will void a warranty
and what wont?

Here are a few mods I was thinking about:
K&N filter
Power pulleys
Electric cooling fans
Synthetic oils
Low Temp thermostat.
Mass Airflow Sensor
Big Bore Throttle Body
ECM Chip
Bullet proof the 4R70W Tranny with Art Carr mods
Whipple type Supercharger

Of course the last 2 will probably void the warranty. But I've always heard
that the dealer/manufacturer has to prove that the modification caused the
failure, and that a mod by it self does not constitute a voided warranty.

Joe


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______________________________________________________
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1999 11:35:50 -0600
From: "William S. Hart"
Subject: RE: FTE Perf - Warranties and Perf. Mods

> You are in for one heck of a shock my friend. You can use the
> synthetic oil
> best to use Mobile One.

I've seen them try and void warranty's based on this before ... so they will
likely try it ...



>The rest of it voids all warrantees and
> they can and
> will find out.

It can't, there are laws ... if that were true, replacing your air filter
would void the warranty as would the oil filter ... the laws state that they
can't void the warranty because of these upgrades unless they can prove that
the upgraded/modified parts are the cause of the failure ... check the
'stang sites, they're on top of this stuff (they have to be), they'll have
the name of the law and exactly how it reads and everything ...


> When you are at the Ford dealership signing all
> the papers
> step back to the service area, most salesmen will take you there,
> and speak
> with shop foreman or there warranty service rep..... He will answer all
> those questions and not leave any doubts in your mind.

That doesn't mean he's right, it's just another tactic to scare you into
keeping it stock while its under warranty ... lots of dealerships pull this
crap and its just not true ...


> After
> reading my new
> car warranty from my Lincon Mercury Dealer I came up with one
> thought. They
> make it, they sell it, and they will provide warranty service as
> long as it
> remains in the same configuration that they designed it to operate in and
> that is stock.

The problem comes in when you think of things like headlight covers and
aftermarket stereo's ... you install either of those, the next week the O2
sensor goes out .. likely you didn't cause that with either of the mods, but
they can void your warranty because of it ? Dealers have tried, it sounds
dumb, but they have ...


> Here are a few mods I was thinking about:
> K&N filter
> Power pulleys

These two are both sold through the Ford Motorsports (or whatever its called
now) and can be installed by the dealer ... not exactly warranty voiding
there ...

> Electric cooling fans

This I'm not sure on, isn't there at least one already ? Shouldn't void the
warranty any more than adding lights ...

> Synthetic oils

They may try and void it on this one, but they can't ... as long as it meets
their spec they can't complain about it (well they can complain, they just
can't void the warranty of it)

> Low Temp thermostat.

I doubt they'd find that unless you were having problems with it ... or the
computer wasn't warming up all the way and you took it in for poor mileage
...

> Mass Airflow Sensor
> Big Bore Throttle Body
> ECM Chip

These are easily spotted and they may try to use it against you, but unless
the failure is directly caused by one of those components (still dunno
unless they try and say the O2 sensor was destroyed because they let too
much air in! :) ...

> Bullet proof the 4R70W Tranny with Art Carr mods
> Whipple type Supercharger
>

These two may get you in trouble ... but if you are doing this much
yourself, why not just get a lightning to start with ?

Check the www.corral.net site, they have a Service Index where you can
learn about dealerships and ths tuff they've tried to pull ... I couldn't
find the law that says they can't void it without proving that they caused
the failure ... maybe the k&n website was another place I saw it ...


Just my $.02
wish

96 Mustang GT 5spd 4.6L
73ish 1/2ton 4x4 6.4L
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish

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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 09 Nov 1999 13:11:58 EST
From: "Gerald Ash"
Subject: RE: FTE Perf - Warranties and Perf. Mods

I will agree with William on most of his points and I am a very strong
beliver that what is yours should be done with like you want.

However my point is why purchase a $25,000--$30,000 vehicle just to start
some fights with a dealer and Ford. Money talks and BS and good intentions
walks. FoMoCo has to have more money than this dude. The only people making
money at court deciding if you can change your air box is the lawyers. It
would possiably be to your best interest to get a good used vehicle and then
just hot rod it to your hearts content.

That is just my opinion, he asked, I expressed it, I know where William is
comming from and agree. But in this world it isn't what is right it is what
is might.


From: "William S. Hart"
Reply-To: perf-list ford-trucks.com
To:
Subject: RE: FTE Perf - Warranties and Perf. Mods
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1999 11:35:50 -0600
MIME-Version: 1.0
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> You are in for one heck of a shock my friend. You can use the
> synthetic oil
> best to use Mobile One.

I've seen them try and void warranty's based on this before ... so they will
likely try it ...



>The rest of it voids all warrantees and
> they can and
> will find out.

It can't, there are laws ... if that were true, replacing your air filter
would void the warranty as would the oil filter ... the laws state that they
can't void the warranty because of these upgrades unless they can prove that
the upgraded/modified parts are the cause of the failure ... check the
'stang sites, they're on top of this stuff (they have to be), they'll have
the name of the law and exactly how it reads and everything ...


> When you are at the Ford dealership signing all
> the papers
> step back to the service area, most salesmen will take you there,
> and speak
> with shop foreman or there warranty service rep..... He will answer all
> those questions and not leave any doubts in your mind.

That doesn't mean he's right, it's just another tactic to scare you into
keeping it stock while its under warranty ... lots of dealerships pull this
crap and its just not true ...


> After
> reading my new
> car warranty from my Lincon Mercury Dealer I came up with one
> thought. They
> make it, they sell it, and they will provide warranty service as
> long as it
> remains in the same configuration that they designed it to operate in and
> that is stock.

The problem comes in when you think of things like headlight covers and
aftermarket stereo's ... you install either of those, the next week the O2
sensor goes out .. likely you didn't cause that with either of the mods, but
they can void your warranty because of it ? Dealers have tried, it sounds
dumb, but they have ...


> Here are a few mods I was thinking about:
> K&N filter
> Power pulleys

These two are both sold through the Ford Motorsports (or whatever its called
now) and can be installed by the dealer ... not exactly warranty voiding
there ...

> Electric cooling fans

This I'm not sure on, isn't there at least one already ? Shouldn't void the
warranty any more than adding lights ...

> Synthetic oils

They may try and void it on this one, but they can't ... as long as it meets
their spec they can't complain about it (well they can complain, they just
can't void the warranty of it)

> Low Temp thermostat.

I doubt they'd find that unless you were having problems with it ... or the
computer wasn't warming up all the way and you took it in for poor mileage
...

> Mass Airflow Sensor
> Big Bore Throttle Body
> ECM Chip

These are easily spotted and they may try to use it against you, but unless
the failure is directly caused by one of those components (still dunno
unless they try and say the O2 sensor was destroyed because they let too
much air in! :) ...

> Bullet proof the 4R70W Tranny with Art Carr mods
> Whipple type Supercharger
>

These two may get you in trouble ... but if you are doing this much
yourself, why not just get a lightning to start with ?

Check the www.corral.net site, they have a Service Index where you can
learn about dealerships and ths tuff they've tried to pull ... I couldn't
find the law that says they can't void it without proving that they caused
the failure ... maybe the k&n website was another place I saw it ...


Just my $.02
wish

96 Mustang GT 5spd 4.6L
73ish 1/2ton 4x4 6.4L
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish

== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html


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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1999 20:32:55 -0500
From: "Joe Merchak"
Subject: RE: FTE Perf - Warranties and Perf. Mods

The K&N Air filter does not void warranty.

- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-perf-list ford-trucks.com
[mailto:owner-perf-list ford-trucks.com]On Behalf Of Gerald Ash
Sent: Tuesday, November 09, 1999 11:57 AM
To: perf-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - Warranties and Perf. Mods


You are in for one heck of a shock my friend. You can use the synthetic oil
best to use Mobile One. The rest of it voids all warrantees and they can and
will find out. When you are at the Ford dealership signing all the papers
step back to the service area, most salesmen will take you there, and speak
with shop foreman or there warranty service rep..... He will answer all
those questions and not leave any doubts in your mind. After reading my new
car warranty from my Lincon Mercury Dealer I came up with one thought. They
make it, they sell it, and they will provide warranty service as long as it
remains in the same configuration that they designed it to operate in and
that is stock. If I were you I would drive it 12,000 to 24,000 miles and see
if it works, enjoy the ride. Beware of after-market products.


From: jmann living.com
Reply-To: perf-list ford-trucks.com
To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com, perf-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: FTE Perf - Warranties and Perf. Mods
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1999 10:40:38 -0600
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Good morning Gents,

Well my 2000 5.4 Lariat 4x4 should be rolling in sometime next week. In the
mean time I've been conjuring up all kinds of performance mods to make to it
once it gets here. But the overriding question is what will void a warranty
and what wont?

Here are a few mods I was thinking about:
K&N filter
Power pulleys
Electric cooling fans
Synthetic oils
Low Temp thermostat.
Mass Airflow Sensor
Big Bore Throttle Body
ECM Chip
Bullet proof the 4R70W Tranny with Art Carr mods
Whipple type Supercharger

Of course the last 2 will probably void the warranty. But I've always heard
that the dealer/manufacturer has to prove that the modification caused the
failure, and that a mod by it self does not constitute a voided warranty.

Joe


== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

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Date: Tue, 09 Nov 1999 20:57:52 -0500
From: "Thomas J. Teixeira"
Subject: RE: FTE Perf - Warranties and Perf. Mods

At 08:32 PM 11/09/1999 -0500, Joe Merchak wrote:
>The K&N Air filter does not void warranty.

Some recent Ford cars (I'm thinking of 96 and later Taurus SHOs) supposedly
had a warning in the owner's manual and/or under the hood that using an
oiled air filter would void the warranty. The rationale was that people
often put too much oil on their K&N and the excess oil fouls the MAF.

I had also read about some people claiming they get continuous "check
engine" lights with a K&N filter, but I can't remember now if this was
recent Jeep Grand Cherokee's, or recent Explorers with the 5.0 liter V8.

Tom Teixeira mailto:tjt world.std.com
94 Taurus SHO 5-speed NESHOC/SHO Registry
'66 Mustang convertible (200 cid auto) http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://world.std.com/~tjt
'35 Ford Pickup (flathead V8)


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Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1999 19:50:39 -0800 (PST)
From: canzus seanet.com
Subject: RE: FTE Perf - Warranties and Perf. Mods

At 08:57 PM 9:11:99 -0500, Thomas J. Teixeira wrote:
>At 08:32 PM 11/09/1999 -0500, Joe Merchak wrote:
>>The K&N Air filter does not void warranty.
>
>Some recent Ford cars (I'm thinking of 96 and later Taurus SHOs) supposedly
>had a warning in the owner's manual and/or under the hood that using an
>oiled air filter would void the warranty. The rationale was that people
>often put too much oil on their K&N and the excess oil fouls the MAF.
>

I have heard this also, but thought it was the MAS air sensor, maybe
we be talkin' the same thing?? Rockette says the SHO is running just
dandy, and ain't giving it up any time soon...

If I had any time in the minimal amount of daylight we seem to have
these days, I'd be able to make the new (to me) truck run a little better.



Steve & the Rockette
68 F100, 390cid, FMX
63 F100, 292cid, 3speed
72 Capri 2000, hers
73 Capri 2600,tube frame going in.....
73 MGB GT, Our Toy
94 SHO, SWMBO's
97 Contour, Mine

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Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 00:00:01 EST
From: FLR150 ....


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