From: owner-perf-list-digest ford-trucks.com (perf-list-digest)
To: perf-list-digest ford-trucks.com
Subject: perf-list-digest V2 #265
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perf-list-digest Friday, October 15 1999 Volume 02 : Number 265



=======================================================================
Ford Truck Enthusiasts - Performance
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=======================================================================
In this issue:

RE: FTE Perf - Tweety's Ticker
RE: FTE Perf - Tweety's Ticker
Re: FTE Perf - Tweety's Ticker
Re: FTE Perf - first rebuild
Re: FTE Perf - Tweety's Ticker
RE: FTE Perf - Tweety's Ticker
FTE Perf - ADMIN: Archives
FTE Perf - ADMIN: Interview with Bob Masone, F150 Brand Manager!
Re: FTE Perf - Tweety's Ticker
FTE Perf - BAAAD Thing
FTE Perf - Tweety
Re: FTE Perf - Tweety
[none]
FTE Perf - Re: 300 Build

=======================================================================

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 08:14:23 -0500
From: "William S. Hart"
Subject: RE: FTE Perf - Tweety's Ticker

> Well folks the inevitable has happened. My lead foot combined
> with an old
> motor has resulted in Tweety's Ticker ticking.

Bummer Darrell, sorry to hear about that ... hopefully Tweety'll hold out
long enough for you to get a good solid motor built up ... though it seems
the original has done pretty well, all things considered ;)


I can't offer you much help on the parts you've selected, but it sounds like
mostly brand name stuff, so it likely won't lead you wrong ...

Just my $.02
wish

96 Mustang GT 4.6L
73ish F100 4x4 6.4L
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish

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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 06:48:13 -0700
From: "O'Connell, Dennis M"
Subject: RE: FTE Perf - Tweety's Ticker

Darrell,
Uh, what was the question. No seriously it sounds like you've got it all
together. The only thing I would suggest is go ahead and go withs some comp
headers. I have the 429 with the smog bump removed, etc.. and I could feel
the low end difference when I put the headers on.

Dennis
55F100

> ----------
> From: JUMPINFORD AOL.COM[SMTP:JUMPINFORD AOL.COM]
> Reply To: perf-list ford-trucks.com
> Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 1999 9:34 PM
> To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com; perf-list ford-trucks.com
> Subject: FTE Perf - Tweety's Ticker
>
> Well folks the inevitable has happened. My lead foot combined with an old
>
> motor has resulted in Tweety's Ticker ticking. It sounds to me like a
> lifter
> or sumthin in the valve train has gone bad. Im gonna pull the valve
> covers
> and take a look, also gonna try the ole ATF Fix all. But in either case,
> Ive
> decided to buy another 460 to build up so I can just do a swap and not
> have
> my truck down for the year my bros took. Figured Id share my baseline,
> and
> get all of your opinions. I plan on doing the basic bottom end, Only
> boring
> if I have to. Also plan on runnin Clevite bearings. Pistons will be TRW
> flat
> tops to up the CR to a respectable level. Im sticking with the 73 head,
> so I
> wont have to buy my gas at an airport. I do plan on gasket matching the
> intake and exhaust, and removing the smog bumps. Im leanin towards the
> Edelbrock Performer intake, but Ive also heard good stuff about the weiand
>
> Stealth, either way Im running a Holley 650 with Vac secondaries, as I
> dont
> need my mileage to go down to far. Im keeping the stock exhaust
> manifolds,
> but running a dual 3 inch system, with a cross over. As far as a cam
> goes,
> Im lookin at either Cranes Powermax (204/216 .050 with a gross lift of
> .487/.518) or Comp Cams 268H series (218/218 .050 with a gross of
> .494/.494)
> I want a lumpy idle, with good mid and top end, but I dont wanna have such
> a
> week bottom end that I have to run a stall converter. I do have the 4.10
> gears, so that helps a weak bottom end out a lil. Either cam is getting a
>
> Cloyes Chain. I dont think Ive left anything out, so now Im askin on
> feedback. Lemme know any ideas you have, or maybe even a better idea than
>
> what I have.
>
> Darrell Duggan
> 74 F-350 "Tweety"
> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
>
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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 06:19:49 -0400
From: "Gerald Ash"
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - Tweety's Ticker

Good luck. Would like to know how the cam works and what manifold you
decide on. Do you have an extra set of engine tower mounts for a 78? I
have been told to use the 351M towers but I cant find any at the junk yards
here. I am replacing a 300 six cyl with a 460 also. If anyone has a set
for sale contact me at ga1998 hotmail.com .
Thanks
Gerald
- ----- Original Message -----
From:
To: ;
Sent: Thursday, October 14, 1999 12:34 AM
Subject: FTE Perf - Tweety's Ticker


> Well folks the inevitable has happened. My lead foot combined with an old
> motor has resulted in Tweety's Ticker ticking. It sounds to me like a
lifter
> or sumthin in the valve train has gone bad. Im gonna pull the valve
covers
> and take a look, also gonna try the ole ATF Fix all. But in either case,
Ive
> decided to buy another 460 to build up so I can just do a swap and not
have
> my truck down for the year my bros took. Figured Id share my baseline,
and
> get all of your opinions. I plan on doing the basic bottom end, Only
boring
> if I have to. Also plan on runnin Clevite bearings. Pistons will be TRW
flat
> tops to up the CR to a respectable level. Im sticking with the 73 head,
so I
> wont have to buy my gas at an airport. I do plan on gasket matching the
> intake and exhaust, and removing the smog bumps. Im leanin towards the
> Edelbrock Performer intake, but Ive also heard good stuff about the weiand
> Stealth, either way Im running a Holley 650 with Vac secondaries, as I
dont
> need my mileage to go down to far. Im keeping the stock exhaust
manifolds,
> but running a dual 3 inch system, with a cross over. As far as a cam
goes,
> Im lookin at either Cranes Powermax (204/216 .050 with a gross lift of
> .487/.518) or Comp Cams 268H series (218/218 .050 with a gross of
.494/.494)
> I want a lumpy idle, with good mid and top end, but I dont wanna have such
a
> week bottom end that I have to run a stall converter. I do have the 4.10
> gears, so that helps a weak bottom end out a lil. Either cam is getting a
> Cloyes Chain. I dont think Ive left anything out, so now Im askin on
> feedback. Lemme know any ideas you have, or maybe even a better idea than
> what I have.
>
> Darrell Duggan
> 74 F-350 "Tweety"
> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
>
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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 06:26:56 -0400
From: "Gerald Ash"
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - first rebuild

DIDO on what William said. I have a slightly used header, went to the split
exhaust myself. The header made my engine loose a lot of idle-1500 torque
and you could take your foot off the gas in high gear, road speeds, and it
didn't even want to slow down.....
Gerald
ga1998 hotmail.com
- ----- Original Message -----
From: William S. Hart
To:
Sent: Thursday, October 14, 1999 12:21 AM
Subject: RE: FTE Perf - first rebuild


> > Hi all! I'm looking at doing my first rebuild on
> > my 300-6
>
> Congratulations :) With help from this list I did a rebuild of a 390 this
> spring...still runnin too :)
>
> >and would like to hear what you all
> > think about the best place to buy a kit. So far
> > I've checked at autozone (159 without pistons or
> > crank) and pepboys (400-600 with pistons no
> > crank). Do any of you have any experience
> > building this motor?
>
> I'm not sure about these kits, what I did was call around to the machine
> shops and see who would work on this old Ford motor I had ... you might be
> better off as its a newer one ... anyway I let them deal with getting the
> parts together for me, so they did all the machine work and got my
business
> for the parts too ... they let me select a cam and compression ratio and
all
> that stuff ...
>
> > Since we've had it the only major problem we've
> > had is some sort of computer problem. I'd like
> > to put in a cam with a bit more lift and a
> > header(1) on it and this is the best time to do
> > that so any recommendations on the cam? How hard
> > is it to actually find one of the 6 cyl headers?
>
> Hmmm...computer problems ... this is a fuel injected unit then ? Well
there
> aren't any standard chips or anything available for this that I know of,
so
> putting in a cam with more lift and a header will require a chip burned by
a
> tuner to be fully utilized ... these can be a bit pricey, but will let you
> realize the full potential of the motor ...
>
> 6cyl headers can be found, but I don't know about with the O2 sensor bungs
> or anything ... check with Clifford manufacturing, they make lots of parts
> for the 6cyls.
>
> You really need to determine what you want to do with this truck ?
Pulling
> ? Commuting? Both ? What gears are in the rear? What tranny? All
kinds
> of things to take into account when building a motor ..
>
> As I understand it, the split manifolds of the FI trucks are actually
pretty
> good, a header can lose some low end torque, but the split manifolds are
> just begging for a dual exhaust :)
>
>
>
> > Does a torque converter wear out over time or
> > will they outlast even the 300?
>
> A torque converter can be damaged, and probably worn out, but not
considered
> a common occurance ... what brings this up ?
>
>
> Just my $.02
> wish
>
> 96 Mustang GT 4.6L
> 73ish F100 4x4 6.4L
> http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish
>
> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
>
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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 08:25:36 PDT
From: "Roger Lane"
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - Tweety's Ticker

Darrell, I don't think this will help your situation, but I thought it was
pretty cool. Some one is stuffing a twin turboed FI 460 into a 1978 Ford
Fairmont. Check out their site.
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Garage/1378/fairymont.html

On Thu, 14 Oct 1999 00:34:29 EDT, JUMPINFORD AOL.COM wrote:

> Well folks the inevitable has happened. My lead foot combined with an old

> motor has resulted in Tweety's Ticker ticking. It sounds to me like a
lifter
> or sumthin in the valve train has gone bad. Im gonna pull the valve
covers
> and take a look, also gonna try the ole ATF Fix all. But in either case,
Ive
> decided to buy another 460 to build up so I can just do a swap and not
have
> my truck down for the year my bros took. Figured Id share my baseline,
and
> get all of your opinions. I plan on doing the basic bottom end, Only
boring
> if I have to. Also plan on runnin Clevite bearings. Pistons will be TRW
flat
> tops to up the CR to a respectable level. Im sticking with the 73 head,
so I
> wont have to buy my gas at an airport. I do plan on gasket matching the
> intake and exhaust, and removing the smog bumps. Im leanin towards the
> Edelbrock Performer intake, but Ive also heard good stuff about the weiand

> Stealth, either way Im running a Holley 650 with Vac secondaries, as I
dont
> need my mileage to go down to far. Im keeping the stock exhaust
manifolds,
> but running a dual 3 inch system, with a cross over. As far as a cam
goes,
> Im lookin at either Cranes Powermax (204/216 .050 with a gross lift of
> .487/.518) or Comp Cams 268H series (218/218 .050 with a gross of
.494/.494)
> I want a lumpy idle, with good mid and top end, but I dont wanna have such
a
> week bottom end that I have to run a stall converter. I do have the 4.10

> gears, so that helps a weak bottom end out a lil. Either cam is getting a

> Cloyes Chain. I dont think Ive left anything out, so now Im askin on
> feedback. Lemme know any ideas you have, or maybe even a better idea than

> what I have.
>
> Darrell Duggan
> 74 F-350 "Tweety"
> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

Roger Lane

"Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level
then beat you with experience."




________________________________________________________________
Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://voicemail.excite.com
Talk online at http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://voicechat.excite.com
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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 12:06:34 -0400
From: Brad DeFore
Subject: RE: FTE Perf - Tweety's Ticker

I've seen this site also, such a lovely motor; in such a Sleeper??? I
would've dropped that babe into something more deserving, Darrell why don't
you offer to swap motors with him?


"90" F150 4x4 5.8
Brad DeFore
BDeFore ComputerLogic.com

- -----Original Message-----
From: Roger Lane [SMTP:lanero excite.com]
Sent: Thursday, October 14, 1999 11:26 AM
To: perf-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - Tweety's Ticker

Darrell, I don't think this will help your situation, but I thought it was
pretty cool. Some one is stuffing a twin turboed FI 460 into a 1978 Ford
Fairmont. Check out their site.
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Garage/1378/fairymont.html

On Thu, 14 Oct 1999 00:34:29 EDT, JUMPINFORD AOL.COM wrote:

> Well folks the inevitable has happened. My lead foot combined with an
old

> motor has resulted in Tweety's Ticker ticking. It sounds to me like a
lifter
> or sumthin in the valve train has gone bad. Im gonna pull the valve
covers
> and take a look, also gonna try the ole ATF Fix all. But in either case,
Ive
> decided to buy another 460 to build up so I can just do a swap and not
have
> my truck down for the year my bros took. Figured Id share my baseline,
and
> get all of your opinions. I plan on doing the basic bottom end, Only
boring
> if I have to. Also plan on runnin Clevite bearings. Pistons will be TRW
flat
> tops to up the CR to a respectable level. Im sticking with the 73 head,
so I
> wont have to buy my gas at an airport. I do plan on gasket matching the
> intake and exhaust, and removing the smog bumps. Im leanin towards the
> Edelbrock Performer intake, but Ive also heard good stuff about the
weiand

> Stealth, either way Im running a Holley 650 with Vac secondaries, as I
dont
> need my mileage to go down to far. Im keeping the stock exhaust
manifolds,
> but running a dual 3 inch system, with a cross over. As far as a cam
goes,
> Im lookin at either Cranes Powermax (204/216 .050 with a gross lift of
> .487/.518) or Comp Cams 268H series (218/218 .050 with a gross of
.494/.494)
> I want a lumpy idle, with good mid and top end, but I dont wanna have
such
a
> week bottom end that I have to run a stall converter. I do have the 4.10

> gears, so that helps a weak bottom end out a lil. Either cam is getting
a

> Cloyes Chain. I dont think Ive left anything out, so now Im askin on
> feedback. Lemme know any ideas you have, or maybe even a better idea
than

> what I have.
>
> Darrell Duggan
> 74 F-350 "Tweety"
> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

Roger Lane

"Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level
then beat you with experience."




________________________________________________________________
Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://voicemail.excite.com
Talk online at http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://voicechat.excite.com
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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 17:36:17 -0400
From: kpayne ford-trucks.com
Subject: FTE Perf - ADMIN: Archives

Just a quick update. The mailing list archives (all
166 meg!) have been formatted as HTML pages and uploaded
to the server.

As soon as they are indexed for searching and we come
up with a good way to protect them from email address
harvesting they will become available to the users.

Not sure is anyone has noticed, but our web server is
faster and mail delivery is too. The T1 install is
on schedule.

Ken Payne
Admin, Ford Truck Enthusiasts
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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 20:01:26 -0400
From: Ken Payne
Subject: FTE Perf - ADMIN: Interview with Bob Masone, F150 Brand Manager!

FIRST TO PRESS! FordNews.com has supplied us with transcripts to
their interview with Bob Masone, F150 Brand Manager! You can find
it on the main page of the web site.

Ken Payne
Admin, Ford Truck Enthusiasts
http://www.ford-trucks.com

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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 17:49:02 -0700
From: George Miller
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - Tweety's Ticker

Sorry to hear it but look at the situation as an opportunity to enhance
Tweety's performance the right way.

On Thu, 14 Oct 1999 00:34:29 EDT, JUMPINFORD AOL.COM wrote:

Well folks the inevitable has happened. My lead foot combined with an
old motor has resulted in Tweety's Ticker ticking. It sounds to
me like a lifter or sumthin in the valve train has gone bad. Im
gonna pull the valve covers and take a look, also gonna try the ole
ATF Fix all. But in either case, Ive decided to buy another 460 to
build up so I can just do a swap and not have my truck down for the
year my bros took. Figured Id share my baseline, and get all of your
opinions.

I plan on doing the basic bottom end, Only boring if I have to.
Also plan on runnin Clevite bearings. Pistons will be TRW flat tops
to up the CR to a respectable level. Im sticking with the 73 head, so
I
wont have to buy my gas at an airport.

I'd suggest you plan on boring it .030 to provide a nice surface for
those new rings. If you run stock pistons in a '72 up 460 10.322" deck
block and go to the early ('68-71) heads with 75.8cc chambers, you can
end up with a C/R of 9.6:1, just right for 92 octane and iron heads.
Even more important, you'll have rail rockers than can be adjusted for
lifter preload. That'll allow you to take full advantage of your new
cam.

I do plan on gasket matching the intake and exhaust, and removing
the smog bumps. Im leanin towards the Edelbrock Performer intake, but
Ive also heard good stuff about the weiand Stealth, either way Im
running a Holley 650 with Vac secondaries, as I dont need my mileage
to go down to far.

I've ran most of the aftermarket carbs and prefer the Edelbrock 750. If
you stay out of the secondaries in normal driving, your gas mileage
won't be that much different than a 650. There's a big difference
between the 650 and 750 that the 460 can use when you need or want it.
Nice thing about the Edelbrock is that it's pretty much plug and play
with no power valve.

Let us know know how it progresses.

George Miller
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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 19:08:41 -0600
From: William A Whited
Subject: FTE Perf - BAAAD Thing

Well today I had a bad thing happen to my 77. Took
her in to get the lovely El Paso Emissions test and TX
Safety Inspection. Passed the emissions with no
problems. Had some other minor safety issues that
needed fixed, like the gas caps didn't pass the test.
Came home got the stuff and was heading back to get the
sticker, leaving the part store parking lot, smelled a
little gas, (no biggie had the old caps in the cab with
me). I got about 10 ft and black smoke from under the
hood (not GOOD). Stopped opened the hood quickly, had
a fire on top of the manifold. Ran into the parts
store and got to fire extinguishers and got her out
quickly. But not before she burned some spark plug
wires, fuel filter, rotor cap, and a black spot on my
nice red paint on the hood. Tomorrow I find out for
sure on all the damage. This morning the tweaked my
idle and some other things so the blame is kinda
falling in between us. One thing of note is the fuel
filter was one of those clear gas ones, well it has
plastic fittings on each ends. It appears that the
fire started there. A fire extinguisher will be with
me from now on. Could've saved me allot of damage.

- --
William A Whited
74 F100 RANGER SUPERCAB 390
77 F150 CUSTOM 460
EL Paso, TX
SEMPER FI


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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 18:24:18 -0700
From: George Miller
Subject: FTE Perf - Tweety

When I suggested a .030 bore, it was because I've heard that TRW's
piston line selection has been slimmed down to only .030 and .060
oversize. A .010 or, depending on what it took to clean it up, .020
would be my first choices.

George Miller
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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 22:35:40 EDT
From: JUMPINFORD AOL.COM
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - Tweety

thanks for the info
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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 19:49:26 -0700 (PDT)
From: Andy Osborne
Subject: [none]

> Hi all! I'm looking at doing my first rebuild
on
> my 300-6

Congratulations :) With help from this list I
did a rebuild of a 390
this
spring...still runnin too :)

>and would like to hear what you all
> think about the best place to buy a kit. So
far
> I've checked at autozone (159 without pistons
or
> crank) and pepboys (400-600 with pistons no
> crank). Do any of you have any experience
> building this motor?

I'm not sure about these kits, what I did was
call around to the
machine
shops and see who would work on this old Ford
motor I had ... you
might be
better off as its a newer one ... anyway I let
them deal with getting
the
parts together for me, so they did all the
machine work and got my
business
for the parts too ... they let me select a cam
and compression ratio
and all
that stuff ...

> Since we've had it the only major problem
we've
> had is some sort of computer problem. I'd
like
> to put in a cam with a bit more lift and a
> header(1) on it and this is the best time to
do
> that so any recommendations on the cam? How
hard
> is it to actually find one of the 6 cyl
headers?

Hmmm...computer problems ... this is a fuel
injected unit then ? Well
there
aren't any standard chips or anything available
for this that I know
of, so
putting in a cam with more lift and a header will
require a chip
burned by a
tuner to be fully utilized ... these can be a bit
pricey, but will let
you
realize the full potential of the motor ...

6cyl headers can be found, but I don't know about
with the O2 sensor
bungs
or anything ... check with Clifford
manufacturing, they make lots of
parts
for the 6cyls.

You really need to determine what you want to do
with this truck ?
Pulling
? Commuting? Both ? What gears are in the
rear? What tranny? All
kinds
of things to take into account when building a
motor ..

As I understand it, the split manifolds of the FI
trucks are actually
pretty
good, a header can lose some low end torque, but
the split manifolds
are
just begging for a dual exhaust :)



> Does a torque converter wear out over time or
> will they outlast even the 300?

A torque converter can be damaged, and probably
worn out, but not
considered
a common occurance ... what brings this up ?

I just find it hard to believe that it cant turn
the tires at all or get decent gas milage, so i
thought the converter could be really inefficient
also it does ok until the transmission (not the
water temp) heats up, but i just changed the
tranny fluid. To the best of my knowledge the
engine has never even been separated from the
tranny so its likely not bent or filled with dead
mice. The fluid seemed pretty clean, as it ran
down my face especially; )


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 21:51:43 -0500
From: Brett L Habben
Subject: FTE Perf - Re: 300 Build

Andy,
Tony's the expert but he's busy Y2k'n. I'm half way through my '79 300.
Find the most reputable local machinist and follow his advice. If you
still want to buy parts elsewhere Northern Auto Parts (www.naparts.com)
was not only the most reasonable but also had the brands I was wanting.
I even dropped in on their new store in Sioux City last month. For
example, a 300 master kit at $284.00, which is cam lifters, timing set,
pistons, rings, rod/main/cam bearings,oil pump, frost plugs, and gasket
set. I checked with all the local rebuilders, plus Pep Boys, Auto Zone,
etc. and could not beat their price. A comparable Federal Mogul Premium
master kit locally was around $370.
With that being said, be aware that you should wait to order the kit
until after you've torn your 300 down and measured everything. Surprise!
My crank had factory .010 undersized mains. Two rods had to be resized
because they were out of round but at 119,000 miles the crank didn't have
to be cut. I ordered .010 mains and standard rods. My cylinders cleaned
up at .030 over. My machinist wanted the pistons on hand to fit the
cylinders to them. So, be aware of the delays involved in all this if
you choose the mail order route.
Be aware that the traditional 'hot rod' tricks of headers, cam,
intake,etc. to improve air flow will move the torque peak further up the
rpm band for added upper rpm horsepower at the possible expense of low
end torque, mileage, etc. I personally do not know how radical a cam you
can go with on your EFI. It's been hell resisting the temptation to hot
rod my motor, but I keep telling myself "This is a truck motor and torque
rules!". I've chosen an Elgin E842S mileage/torque cam, which is very
close to stock, a set of factory split exhaust manifolds, an Offy intake
and a Holley 390. The intake and carb may get changed for something
smaller but I already have it.
I'm still waiting on some parts, so it's not together for the test drive....

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