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Subject: perf-list-digest V2 #234
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perf-list-digest Monday, September 13 1999 Volume 02 : Number 234



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Ford Truck Enthusiasts - Performance
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In this issue:

Re: Subject: RE: FTE Perf - Prices
Re: Subject: RE: FTE Perf - Prices
Re: Subject: RE: FTE Perf - Prices
FTE Perf - gas guzzler tax
FTE Perf - Prices: Who Cares?
RE: Subject: RE: FTE Perf - Prices
FTE Perf - chips and exhaust
FTE Perf - My $.02 on Prices
FTE Perf - Brakes
Re: FTE Perf - and change for the .02
FTE Perf - re: Feinstein-Gorton amendment (CAFE standards)
Re: FTE Perf - re: Feinstein-Gorton amendment (CAFE standards)
RE: FTE Perf - Prices ( Ford vs the rest of the world)
FTE Perf - Spark Plug wars...

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Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 06:19:06 -0700
From: George Miller
Subject: Re: Subject: RE: FTE Perf - Prices

Why don't you people join a a non-Ford list and praise the prodcts you
prefer there instead of taking up Ken's bandwidth, which he graciously
provides for FORD Trucks?

George Miller

Gerald Ash wrote:
>
> Thanks Bret,
>
> In 1973 I purchased a new Chevy C20 3/4 ton truck with a big block 400 which
> was a 402 cu in engine/turbo 400 transmission, 8 lug wheels, 16 inch tires
> and it pulled and outrun every Ford/chevy/dodge car or truck in the county.
> If I could find one that is restorable I would do so in a heart beat. There
> is nothing like just plain horsepower at your disposal.
>
> Now I have a 390 in my 1978 Ford pickup. It is a great motor and hard
> pulling motor but I really doubt that it would do what that Chevy did. I
> would like to build a stump pulling, hill climbing, tire burning horsepower
> deamon out of this 390 but I haven't had anyone but William guide me in the
> direction of FE power.
>
> I don't mind being roasted, in fact I like it. In South Ga. where I am the
> Fords work as woods trucks or town trucks as the Chevy trucks body will not
> hold up in the woods, but in the fields, the Chevy is two to three to one.
> Why, 1. You don't have to purchase land to turn it around. 2.The rear wheels
> stay on the ground or have more traction in the sand. 3. The dist. is in
> the rear and hitting mud puddles don't drown them out as often.
>
> Now it's my guess that when we get to the gates of Heaven there will be all
> breeds of trucks taking us up to the BBQ in the sky. Now to tell the truth
> if a Chevy, Dodge, or even Toyota pulls up and St. Peter says load up I will
> be in the back. I own the truck, Ford has never sent me a check,what is
> good is good and what isn't so good just isn't so good no matter which hood
> emblem is stuck on the front.
>
> My old grand daddy told me years ago to keep my mouth shut and I might learn
> something. Kinda wish I had done so now but it has been fun!
>
> To all have a good weekend,
> GA
>
> ______________________________________________________
> > == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 13:31:48 GMT
From: "Gerald Ash"
Subject: Re: Subject: RE: FTE Perf - Prices

Because we have Ford Trucks and are willing to share our time, thoughts, and
opinions with others.

______________________________________________________
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Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 07:36:10 -0700
From: George Miller
Subject: Re: Subject: RE: FTE Perf - Prices

Sounds more suitable for an open forum when vehicles other than Ford
Trucks are described and praised. I think Ford Trucks are still the list
topic but since I missed a couple of threads I could be wrong.

George Miller

Gerald Ash wrote:
>
> Because we have Ford Trucks and are willing to share our time, thoughts, and
> opinions with others.
>
> ______________________________________________________
> > == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 10:22:03 -0500
From: jmann living.com
Subject: FTE Perf - gas guzzler tax

Can someone please explain, briefly, the gas guzzler tax and when it's
applied. Depending on this answer, I may drop the 4x4 from my 2000 F-150
order.

Thanks,

Joe
Austin, TX

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Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 08:35:06 -0700 (PDT)
From: Bill
Subject: FTE Perf - Prices: Who Cares?

1) Title of List: FTE (First Letter is FORD)

I have nothing against Ch*vies, just nothing for them.. my 64 has a
Mopar frontend cause the straight front axle rode like a buckboard, but
the engine is pure 351W... and I am about to spend $1500 in machine
work and parts just to have the shortblock rebuilt (the heads are
already done) to my specifications at a local speed shop.. could I do
this cheaper with a sbc... probably... but, who cares, I ain't gonna
put one in my '64... will the same sbc out perform my sbf for the same
amount of money??.. probably, but, I ain't gonna put one in my '64...

If I had a Ch*vy, I wouldn't put a sbf in it... so price is not the
issue... it's the principal of the thing....

So, when it comes down to "my daddy's Ch*vy can beat your daddy's
Ford".. who cares...

I don't feel I am being ripped off by anyone but myself.. it is a
"eyes-wide-open" decision on my part to own and drive an old, expensive
to "hop up", Ford... nobody twisted my arm....

Now, as I put on my flame-retardent suit, I bid you a great day....


Bill in Texas
'64 F100 Shortbox ('70 351W/C4)
'90 Harley Dresser
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
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Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 11:41:04 -0400
From: Greg Carter
Subject: RE: Subject: RE: FTE Perf - Prices

The topic had to do with paying more for Ford parts than for other brands,
specifically GM. That lead to "Ford's are better", which most open minded
people had to point out just isn't true. Compare a GM truck made in the
80-90's to a Ford made up to '96. You will find engines based on early 60's
technology in both, driveline components made from the same manufacture
(Dana, B-W, etc...). The only difference is styling, which doesn't have
much to do with performance. To flat out say "Ford is better" is ignoring
the facts.

To blindly pay more to make the same horsepower just because it has a blue
oval on it instead of a bowtie seems ridicules.

I thought that maybe I just wasn't looking in the right places for Ford
parts, which is why I originally posted the message. But that doesn't seem
to be the case.

I am a Ford fan, have the vehicles to prove it. I enjoy making fun of my
friends with Chev trucks when they get stuck, but I really don't like having
to pay thousands more when modifying my truck.

Bye.

> ----------
> From: George Miller[SMTP:mega55 lv.rmci.net]
> Sent: Sunday, September 12, 1999 10:36 AM
> To: perf-list ford-trucks.com
> Subject: Re: Subject: RE: FTE Perf - Prices
>
> Sounds more suitable for an open forum when vehicles other than Ford
> Trucks are described and praised. I think Ford Trucks are still the list
> topic but since I missed a couple of threads I could be wrong.
>
> George Miller
>
> Gerald Ash wrote:
> >
> > Because we have Ford Trucks and are willing to share our time, thoughts,
> and
> > opinions with others.
> >
> > ______________________________________________________
> > > > == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
>
== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 12:40:40 EDT
From: Brokeagin AOL.COM
Subject: FTE Perf - chips and exhaust

I tried to post this last week but I never saw it posted so I am resending
it...Thanks

I have a 98 F150 4X4 XLT with the 5.4 liter V8 and auto trans. Has anyone on
the list tried an aftermarket chip or the Hypertech Power Programmer? Also
any opinions on exhaust cat back systems would also be greatly appreciated. I
am looking for information on best bang for the buck. I already have a K&N
Gen II air cleaner kit on it. I use the truck for pulling trailers and some
mild wheeling. I am sorry if these subjects has already been covered. Thanks
for any and all responses.

David
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Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 17:01:21 -0400
From: The Neighbors
Subject: FTE Perf - My $.02 on Prices

Azie's remark about Chevies going through lifters and camshafts reminds
me of a t-shirt I saw once: "Old Chevies Never Die, They Just Go Through
Lifters." (Drumroll, please.) I overhauled a 390 FE a couple of years
ago and like Azie said, an over bore was unecessary. Ford uses a harder
iron alloy in their blocks, which is why. I'd also like to remind all
you Chevy-in-a-Ford types that in the '60s Ford put a hurting on Chevy
AND Ferarri on the track with the FE engines, and did mighty well on the
European raod circuits with small block Falcons and Comets, and FE block
Galaxies.
The ribbing, of course, is all in good fun.
- --
Don Neighbors
'54 F250 Named Grover

"Any dropped tool or part will automatically fall into the most
innaccesible part of the vehicle."

grover ford-trucks.com
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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 15:46:21 -0700
From: Adam McLaughlin
Subject: FTE Perf - Brakes

Hi,

Well, I am going to replace the front rubber brake hoses in my 1988 BII
4x4 with some stainless steel lines, and since I am there I am also
going to put in new pads on the front. Does anyone have any suggestions
to what is the best?

http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.jps.net/jmclaugh/thebaby.jpg

Thanks,

Adam

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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 19:05:41 EDT
From: "Gerald Ash"
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - and change for the .02

You tell em. When you get in touch with the Ford Tech Support and Design
tell them I want a pickup about the size of the Hummer, with the weight of a
Toyota, the speed of a Ford Lightning, the pulling power of a John Deere,
the hill climbing of a Tree Farmer, the comfort of a Town Car, with an
air-conditioner like the thunder chicken, a sound system like the Grand Old
Oprea, leather interior, vinal top, 500,000 mile warrenty and a price
sticker somewhere from $10,000 to 15,000. Shucks tell'em I want two a white
one and a green one. While I am here I have the fever to hop up my 390.
What book ie. Hot Rod ect. year, month has an article on how to get one
screaming? Can you stroke one? To me there isn't anything like the rumble
of a stroked engine.
GA


- ----Original Message Follows----
From: The Neighbors
Reply-To: perf-list ford-trucks.com
To: FTE Performance
Subject: FTE Perf - My $.02 on Prices
Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 17:01:21 -0400
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Azie's remark about Chevies going through lifters and camshafts reminds
me of a t-shirt I saw once: "Old Chevies Never Die, They Just Go Through
Lifters." (Drumroll, please.) I overhauled a 390 FE a couple of years
ago and like Azie said, an over bore was unecessary. Ford uses a harder
iron alloy in their blocks, which is why. I'd also like to remind all
you Chevy-in-a-Ford types that in the '60s Ford put a hurting on Chevy
AND Ferarri on the track with the FE engines, and did mighty well on the
European raod circuits with small block Falcons and Comets, and FE block
Galaxies.
The ribbing, of course, is all in good fun.
- --
Don Neighbors
'54 F250 Named Grover

"Any dropped tool or part will automatically fall into the most
innaccesible part of the vehicle."

grover ford-trucks.com
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______________________________________________________
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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 21:54:52 -0400
From: Jay Snyder
Subject: FTE Perf - re: Feinstein-Gorton amendment (CAFE standards)

Another side effect of CAFE is that because trucks an SUVs are so
popular now, performance engine availibility for CARs suffers.

The cost of a V8 over a V6 for a Mustang, or the V6 over the 4 cyl.
for the countour is much higher than it has to be (does the larger
engine really cost $2,000-3,000 more to make? -- I don't think so).

Thus people are forced by the price into settling for the smaller
engine (and less performance) cars.

J.
'87 F150 4.9L

============================================================
Jay Snyder
jsnyder microserve.net
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.microserve.net/~jsnyder
(717)652-3567
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Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 02:47:22 GMT
From: "Gerald Ash"
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - re: Feinstein-Gorton amendment (CAFE standards)

HELLO>
You got it my friend. They( the auto makers) could care less what we want
and how we have to work for it. All they want is all our moneys. FYI ( FOR
YOUR INFORMATION ) check out the wankel rotary engine.
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.monito.com/wankel/advantages.html
My friend the auto industry has had it squished. Most back yard mechanics
could overhaul it for $80. It lasts almost forever compared to piston
engines, you can stack the banks together to make any hp you want, it is
lighter than conventional engines, now to help the farmers it could almost
burn straight alcohol it met all pollution controls years ago but some large
auto companies purchased the product patent and now it is history.

WHY you might ask, well my opinion is that the steel mills are making better
metal for bodies,(last longer) the tire companies are making 50,000+
tires,(last longer) the glass companies have made glass that lasts, so why
have a shop with 20 bays, or a auto parts store on each block. To sell
parts for our old fashion engines. MONEY MONEY MONEY

Don't yell at me or anyone else. We the consumer have elected a bunch of
folks that want the big dogs to have this money. We are hung up on the hood
emblem, heck lets make policy. Send a copy of your title to the maker with
a note to look back at this engine OR to make one that runs faster, last
longer, and is cheaper to rebuild.

Now before you click off this page now ( and I hope they don't stop me for
sharing with you all ) The medical field has made an artificial heart that
works and a way to make rejection that is very manageable. Doctors
purchased this heart and refuses to use it. WHY look at the doctors, OR's,
and nurses what would loose a job or money.

When have you seen a train that went 100-200 mph? You Haven't, WHY because
someone don't want to see that speed up our shipments or compete with the
airlines. Look at France, Germany, and Russia they all have them.

We now have a space suttle, a robot that is years from us taking pictures
and scooting around, jets that go two+ times the speed of sound, and even
these PC's, but still the same old piston engines. I think that if Mr.
Henry Ford were here today he would want us all to have the best, that last
the longest, and that all of us could aford, yes A FORD.

Think, just think. I don't have the answer but I also know that where we
are at isn't where we should be. You do know where all the companies are
going. To a battery car that has a gas engine to charge the batteries. 50
years from now there will not be a Hp engine but a hot battery. I guess
when we want to hear our power we put a stick into the frame so that it hits
the spokes in the wheel.

Thanks,
Ga

______________________________________________________
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Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 22:07:11 -0700
From: "Keith Christensen"
Subject: RE: FTE Perf - Prices ( Ford vs the rest of the world)

I'm on this list for info, not for 'brand loyalty' !!

I grew up on GM/ Ford/ AMC/ Chrysler/ Kaiser Jeep/ et al..

I've built up all sorts of stuff... try a Mercruiser inboard engine in a '53
M38A1 military jeep, Olds Toronado stuffed under the back end of a '63
Falcon Club Wagon (read early Econoline with back seats), the old 327 in a
'55 Chev 2 door wagon, and lots more.

I've also seen 'dead stock' stuff like '63 1/2 Galaxies w/ 427 medium
risers, '65 Chevelles w/ Z11 packages.
Even the old '82 Tojo pickup that I used to embarrass Porsches with..



I agree, Ford's severely backwards on parts pricing . There's rigs like my
'88 BII that have almost nonexistent aftermarket stuff.

But .. and it's a BIG BUTT.. that old "brand CSX rules, brand YYY drools"
stuff hurts when you realize that YYY just happens to have better parts that
just happen to fit XXX !

Don't laugh, I'm in process of getting the wife into a Subaru AWD.. For
her needs, it's the best I can come up with. She doesn't need the size and
such of an Explorer, and Ford's record on AWD cars sucks rocks.

Don't get me wrong,, I *like* most Ford products, but if I'm so blind to not
see better answers elsewhere, I'm dead!




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Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 22:20:04 -0700
From: "Keith Christensen"
Subject: FTE Perf - Spark Plug wars...

The 'Champion/Bosch/Autolite/Split-Fire' discussion will never end!
(Those who claim brand loyalty need to learn to 'read plugs' (that's beyond
this post-- I'm beat !)

I'm gonna throw another contender in to this.. the NipponDenso(ND) "Hot U"
. The basic concept is a standard plug with a rounded channel in the ground
leg. ND hasn't claimed 'hi-miles' out of this design, but it's done me
good in lots of previous vehicles.

It was originally designed for air-cooled 2/4 stroke motorcycles and
'utility engines'. The concept was that it would cover a wider 'heat
range'..

It does that, but it depends on engine design .

I used to run them in a C**Y Vega (don't laugh too loud, please!!) I
gained 2 MPG and cold-weather starting ease over other brands.

My (now departed) 650 Yamaha Twin damned near DEMANDED to have ND Hot U's..
It gave both top-end MPG and 'lug around town' clean throttle response that
never need the "Harley Burp" .

I tried running them in my 74 F-100 302 SB.. no luck ! that truck loved
Champions. No AutoLite/MotorCraft plug gave good results, and I played heat
ranges up and down . 'One range up' Champions were all it wanted/liked!


The 'Split Fire' plugs have never impressed me. I admit to using them "for a....


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