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Subject: perf-list-digest V2 #180
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perf-list-digest Wednesday, July 21 1999 Volume 02 : Number 180



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Ford Truck Enthusiasts - Performance
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In this issue:

FTE Perf - Spark Plug heat ratings
FTE Perf - Leaning out
Re: FTE Perf - Performance carb tuning/slight change
RE: FTE Perf - Rhoads lifters versus Ford motorsport hi rev lifters.
Re: FTE Perf - Performance carb tuning
Re: FTE Perf - Performance carb tuning/slight change
Re: FTE Perf - Performance carb tuning/slight change
Re: FTE Perf - Performance carb tuning/slight change
FTE Perf - power problem
FTE Perf - Re: FTE offroad - power problem
Re: FTE Perf - power problem
Re: FTE Perf - Rhoads lifters versus Ford motorsport hi rev lifters.
RE: FTE Perf - Forged Crankshaft Spare ?
Re: FTE Perf - Rhoads lifters versus Ford motorsport hi rev lifters.
FTE Perf - 4100 Autolite
Re: FTE Perf - Forged Crankshaft Spare ?
Re: FTE Perf - 4100 Autolite

=======================================================================

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 06:59:14 EDT
From: FLR150 AOL.COM
Subject: FTE Perf - Spark Plug heat ratings

Gang,
As most of you know I like to drag race my truck and I am running NO2. My
question to all you techs is this, I have GT40 Iron heads on it. Are the plug
threads the same between the Cobra and Lightning heads? What is the stock
heat range on a stock plug? I need to run a LOT cooler plug to deal with the
NO2. I had a set in that were 1 range colder but welded the electrode to the
firing point on 3 of these plugs. How do I read the heat ranges on Motorcraft
plugs? I would like to keep using the Ford plugs, but I need at least 2 heat
ranges colder, possibly 3 ranges.
Later
Wayne Foy
'94 Flareside SC
Wayne's Page
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 09:25:47 -0400
From: am14 daimlerchrysler.com
Subject: FTE Perf - Leaning out

John writes: >>
wants to die. If I keep pumping the pedal, the engine will keep running
but if I hold the pedal steadily depressed or stop pumping the pedal, the
engine wants to die.

Either you have jetted it much too lean, or you are "sucking air" (vacuum leak)
someplace. You are keeping it running by adding the fuel through the squirt
nozzels(accelerator pump).

JMHO

Azie
Ardmore, Al.


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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 08:34:03 -0500
From: William S Hart
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - Performance carb tuning/slight change

>>]
>
>WAY TOO MUCH CARB!! Most Id recommend is a 390 holley 4bbl.
>
I dunno Darrell, remember this is barely smaller than a 302 and there are
guys who can get it to work just fine ... Tony's used his 390 up and just
got rid of it because it couldn't flow enough air.

In this case though it definitely sounds like too much air, I would
doublecheck all the vacuum lines and the spacer to be sure I got the
gaskets on there right ... also hooking up the secondaries might be a good
idea 'cause then you know they're closed and not flopping open accidently
or anything ...


Just my 2cents

wish

Links http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish/links.html
'73 1/2 ton 4x4 Ford http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish/truck.html
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 11:23:30 -0400
From: Sleddog
Subject: RE: FTE Perf - Rhoads lifters versus Ford motorsport hi rev lifters.

Toss the rhoads into the garbage, or save them for to use for fixing
u-joints or something. drop in the ford items and have fun.

sounds like a nice build you have there. that's a pretty big bump stick
for a hydraulic grind, so it will have some good spring pressures to
control it. I have found out that the rhoades do not take higher spring
pressures as well as lifters without "controled leakdown". that's why i'd
run the ford parts. i do hope yuo got got better springs for that kinda
cam, as you didn't mention them i think.

also, since you have a high stall speed, the varable duration lifters are
worthless anyway, unless you are being tested for class, by checking
intake vacuum.

sleddog

- ----------
From: Bogginf350 AOL.COM[SMTP:Bogginf350 AOL.COM]
Sent: Tuesday, July 20, 1999 12:49 AM
To: perf-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: FTE Perf - Rhoads lifters versus Ford motorsport hi rev lifters.

ok i am in the process of building a motor for a 79 ford f250 4x4 that i am
going to mud-drag race and occasionally pull. the engine is as follows.

OK... ive gotten this far.. everything is assembled.. inc heads.. but i
need
ot know if i should run the motorsport M6500-A351 lifters, or the rhoads
lifters... i have both sets.. but im not sure if the rhoades will hold up
to
the rpm`s this motor will turn with out "pumping up" and floating the
valves.
motorsport says theirs will not float but rhoades really hasnt helped me
much
on the tech line...
any info would be appreciated.

josh davis





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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 13:12:50 -0400 (EDT)
From: shane san miguel
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - Performance carb tuning

300I6 with Clifford intake and Holley? That sounds
like a cool motor!

If you have to keep pumping the gas to keep the motor
going then you're not getting enough gas. Check for
obvious vaccuum leaks, pcv (I always forget that one
for some reason...) etc. What is your manifold
vaccuum while it's running? Sounds like timing might
not be right either. Do you have the dual diaphram
Distributor? Did you check the timing with the vac
advance plugged (I always forget that one too...). I
had similar symptoms and all it was was that I checked
the timing with the vac advance on and not plugged.

Shane
55 F100 5.0
15.51 87

- --- "John F. Bauer III" wrote:
> Group, this is my first delving into performance
> engine modifications,
> always considered myself just a repair-it guy, so
> please be gentle:

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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 13:23:12 -0400 (EDT)
From: shane san miguel
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - Performance carb tuning/slight change

I'm still guessing timing or vaccuum leaks. Happy
hunting!

Shane
55 F100 5.0
15.51 87

- --- "John F. Bauer III" wrote:
>
> I forgot to mention a few things ...
>
> - I disconnected the secondaries to get them out of
> the picture
> - I am using a 1" carb spacer to help clear the
> valve cover for the pedal,
> creating a noticible tunnel ram effect
> - no air cleaner at the moment
> - just bolted the intake/exhaust to the engine with
> a dry gasket, no RTV
> sealent, possible leaks?
> - no change to the distibutor before/after swap
> - carb worked great out of the box on a 460
>
> Hope I got it all covered,
> John

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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 13:26:13 -0400 (EDT)
From: shane san miguel
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - Performance carb tuning/slight change

Was the intake new? I suppose it could be warped....
As long as your head sealing surface and the related
surface on the intake are flat, you don't need any
sealant. Gaskets are just fine. Also check to see if
the carb baseplate is flat and also the carb mounting
area on the intake. It sounds like your carb is new
but what happens on the old carbs is they get TORQUED
down and it warps the baseplate. You can usually fix
minor warpage with a file (shhhhhh).

Shane
55 F100 5.0
15.51 87

- --- George Miller wrote:
> I'd connect the secondaries and disconnect the
> choke. I run a 1" spacer
> with no problems. It's sounding more like a major
> air leak. I haven't
> messed with the 300, so don't know the intake
> manifold installation
> procedure. Be careful with sealants on a gasket that
> will experience
> valve heat. For V-8s, it's only used at the front
> and rear of the lifter
> valley, never on the ports. Good luck.


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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 13:25:17 -0400 (EDT)
From: shane san miguel
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - Performance carb tuning/slight change

> WAY TOO MUCH CARB!! Most Id recommend is a 390
> holley 4bbl.

A 390 would be good for bottom end and all around
driving, very good choice. Keeps the velocity up and
all that but a 600 isn't *overkill* on a stock 300cid
motor. It's close and I know someone that swears it
is too much but it works good for me. It should at
least run.

Shane
55 F100 5.0
15.51 87
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 13:02:35 -0500
From: "Joel Thomas"
Subject: FTE Perf - power problem

I have an 84 F-150 with a 351W, that I installed a 750 vac secondary Holley
an edelbrock performer intake, crane fireball coil, splitfire plugs gapped
at .044, and jacobs 8.5 wires.
my probel is when i am moving along unloaded in 3rd gear and I hit a hill
i have to rev it up to about 45 mph to shift into 4th and then it sill bogs
down aand has no power I can put the gas pedal on the floor and it will
not accelerate at all going up the hill. also the transmission is the
granny 1st T-18, I shutter to think what its gonna be like hauling firewood
thes winter..
I am in need of help ,

thank you



Joel Thomas mailto:treefort prodigy.net
1984 F-150, 351W, 9", T-18,
Edelbrock intake,Holley 750 vac,
33" BFG MT's.
Little Rock,Ar





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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 13:20:16 -0500
From: William S Hart
Subject: FTE Perf - Re: FTE offroad - power problem

At 01:02 PM 7/20/99 , Joel Thomas wrote:
>I have an 84 F-150 with a 351W, that I installed a 750 vac secondary Holley
>an edelbrock performer intake, crane fireball coil, splitfire plugs gapped
>at .044, and jacobs 8.5 wires.
>my probel is when i am moving along unloaded in 3rd gear and I hit a hill
>i have to rev it up to about 45 mph to shift into 4th and then it sill bogs
>down aand has no power I can put the gas pedal on the floor and it will
>not accelerate at all going up the hill. also the transmission is the
>granny 1st T-18, I shutter to think what its gonna be like hauling firewood
>thes winter..
>I am in need of help ,

You've got those neato tires and all the really cool stats, except the axle
ratio ... I'll bet you're just too steep ... how many revs are you pulling
when you shift into 4th ? got a tach on that beast?


Just my 2cents

wish

Links http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish/links.html
'73 1/2 ton 4x4 Ford http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish/truck.html
'96 Mustang GT http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish/mustang.html
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 15:28:21 -0400 (EDT)
From: shane san miguel
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - power problem

> gear and I hit a hill
> i have to rev it up to about 45 mph to shift into
> 4th and then it sill bogs
> down aand has no power I can put the gas pedal on
> the floor and it will
> not accelerate at all going up the hill. also the
> transmission is the

What is the power like when you start from a dead
stop? When accelerating through the gears on flat
road?

Shane
55 F100 5.0
15.51 87
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 17:05:09 EDT
From: Bogginf350 AOL.COM
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - Rhoads lifters versus Ford motorsport hi rev lifters.

yeah, i have the matched motorsport dual springs. at a 1.900 installed height
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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 08:53:29 +1000
From: les
Subject: RE: FTE Perf - Forged Crankshaft Spare ?

On Tuesday, July 20, 1999 11:01 AM, George Miller [SMTP:mega55 lv.rmci.net]
wrote:
: Unless you're running a pure race engine at sustained high rpms or with
: high blower boost, the cast iron crank should do everything you'll need.
: If you don't mind dropping 31 cubes and can get lucky enough to find
: one, Ford Trucks over 1-ton using the 429 had hardness-tested (sorry, I
: no longer have the specs) cranks with a Brinell test mark. The 429 CJs
: and SCJs also used the 'hardness tested' cranks. Those are now becoming
: increasingly rare.
:
: George Miller
:
Hi All,
Thank you, George & Sleddog for your responses. I guess this is a little
off-topic, but it still concerns ford products & performance.
The engine is for offshore boat racing, - yes, Very High R.P.M., 7,000 to
7,500 fed by two (2) 800 cfm carbys and 'pedal to metal' (is there ever any
other way ?) for any time up to an hour. It's very embarassing to be towed
back to shore, - and don't want to start now. The problem is cracking of
the shaft. Strip down the engine and crack-test all parts. Hmmmm another
BIG paper-weight!!!
I am getting the feeling that this is a part now on the endangered list!!
I have tried agents for scat, callies and cola and so far no joy - the
search goes on, even the local SVO agent wouldn't loan out a crank (Cast)
on approval.... Don't know why, if it works I'll buy it, seems fair to me
!... he must have heard about the cracked 'non-twist' one !!....in the
meantime consider the not inconsiderable costs of a class/capacity change.

Regards.

Les W.
The Land of Oz



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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 17:31:39 -0700
From: George Miller
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - Rhoads lifters versus Ford motorsport hi rev lifters.

I've successfully used the Roades in various 460 combos without problems
for a long time. Lots of abuse but never pure competition or with that
big of a cam. Highest rpm usage was 6500 and that was with CJ (.224
intakes) heads, .585 cam and 2500rpm converter. Sleddog doesn't like
them and he runs big motors at high rpms; maybe he can better answer
your question.

George Miller

Bogginf350 AOL.COM wrote:
>
> ok i am in the process of building a motor for a 79 ford f250 4x4 that i am
> going to mud-drag race and occasionally pull. the engine is as follows.
> 78 block milled .022
> 72 d2oe-ab police interceptor heads. milled .035 (full port job) stainless
> severe duty manley valves 2.19in 1.76ex 10 degree locks, dual springs, teflon
> seals.
> 3/8 comp cams magnum pushrods, with the matching 3/8 guideplates
> 11.8 to 1 keith black pistons
> balanced rotating assembly with cj rods and arp bolts.
> .621ex .595in lift hyd ford motorsport cam 254ex 244in duration
> harland sharp roller rockers, with adj. locks
> double roller edelbrock timing chain set
> federal mogul main, rod, cam bearings
> motorsport high volume oil pump, 3/8 chromeoly driveshaft with 8qt moroso pan
> and pickup
> fel-pro gasket set
> victor jr intake manifold, port matched ot the P.I. heads
> 850cfm 4223 model center squirter carb modified by carb specialties. now
> flows 930cfm
> MSD 6al box 7,000rpm rev pill. MSD billet distributor MSD high vibration
> coild and matching MSD 8.5 mm wires
> march Aluminum underdrive pulleys
> edelbrock aluminum waterpump
> motorsport alum (svo power) valve covers with baffles
> L+L outside the frame Nickel plated headers
> 3500rpm tci stall
>
> OK... ive gotten this far.. everything is assembled.. inc heads.. but i need
> ot know if i should run the motorsport M6500-A351 lifters, or the rhoads
> lifters... i have both sets.. but im not sure if the rhoades will hold up to
> the rpm`s this motor will turn with out "pumping up" and floating the valves.
> motorsport says theirs will not float but rhoades really hasnt helped me much
> on the tech line...
> any info would be appreciated.
>
> josh davis
>
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 19:37:44 -0500
From: "David Claflin"
Subject: FTE Perf - 4100 Autolite

It is alive!! I tried a float setting for a standard 352 versus a hi-po 390,
starts and runs great. Doesn't make all the good noise the Carter AFB does
but never hurts to have a good spare carburetor.

Dave

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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 17:45:30 -0700
From: George Miller
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - Forged Crankshaft Spare ?

Under those circumstances, I'd spring for the forged crank as piece of
mind insurance.

George Miller

les wrote:
>
> On Tuesday, July 20, 1999 11:01 AM, George Miller [SMTP:mega55 lv.rmci.net]
> wrote:
> : Unless you're running a pure race engine at sustained high rpms or with
> : high blower boost, the cast iron crank should do everything you'll need.
> : If you don't mind dropping 31 cubes and can get lucky enough to find
> : one, Ford Trucks over 1-ton using the 429 had hardness-tested (sorry, I
> : no longer have the specs) cranks with a Brinell test mark. The 429 CJs
> : and SCJs also used the 'hardness tested' cranks. Those are now becoming
> : increasingly rare.
> :
> : George Miller
> :
> Hi All,
> Thank you, George & Sleddog for your responses. I guess this is a little
> off-topic, but it still concerns ford products & performance.
> The engine is for offshore boat racing, - yes, Very High R.P.M., 7,000 to
> 7,500 fed by two (2) 800 cfm carbys and 'pedal to metal' (is there ever any
> other way ?) for any time up to an hour. It's very embarassing to be towed
> back to shore, - and don't want to start now. The problem is cracking of
> the shaft. Strip down the engine and crack-test all parts. Hmmmm another
> BIG paper-weight!!!
> I am getting the feeling that this is a part now on the endangered list!!
> I have tried agents for scat, callies and cola and so far no joy - the
> search goes on, even the local SVO agent wouldn't loan out a crank (Cast)
> on approval.... Don't know why, if it works I'll buy it, seems fair to me
> !... he must have heard about the cracked 'non-twist' one !!....in the
> meantime consider the not inconsiderable costs of a class/capacity change.
>
> Regards.
>
> Les W.
> The Land of Oz
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 22:10:29 -0400 (EDT)
From: shane san miguel
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - 4100 Autolite

Way to go!!!!

Shane
55 F100 5.0....


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