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Subject: perf-list-digest V2 #163
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perf-list-digest Saturday, July 3 1999 Volume 02 : Number 163



=======================================================================
Ford Truck Enthusiasts - Performance
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In this issue:

FTE Perf - ThermoQuads
FTE Perf - 460's and roller rockers
RE: FTE Perf - 460's and roller rockers
FTE Perf - Charging problems
Re: FTE Perf - fuel line
FTE Perf - Charging problems
RE: FTE Perf - 460's and roller rockers
RE: FTE Perf - 460's and roller rockers
RE: FTE Perf - 460's and roller rockers
FTE Perf - Point settings
Re: FTE Perf - 460's and roller rockers
FTE Perf - compression ratios
FTE Perf - 300 long block

=======================================================================

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Date: Fri, 02 Jul 1999 04:42:40 -0500
From: George Ramsower
Subject: FTE Perf - ThermoQuads

Are the thermoquad carbs still supported? Are there performance parts
available for it? I found one still on an engine in a scrap yard. I
think if it is still supported, I may try it on my F-150.


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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 02 Jul 1999 06:57:50 -0500
From: jniolon uss.com
Subject: FTE Perf - 460's and roller rockers

gentlemen and all the others like me,

Started working on the 460 again... I'm considering a set of roller
rockers. Can those of you with all the experience give me the pro's and
con's of rollers. Don't plan on a radical cam and see the advantage mostly
of reduced friction. Any recommendations on brands ??? Is Crane THAT much
better than Harland Sharp to justify the cost. Any problems encountered
??? I know I have to mill down the pedestals and redrill for 7/16" studs,
use guide plates and hardened pushrods what about lengths... I assume that
stock length rods will not work. right ???

I'd appreciate any input, cause my knowledge base is sorely lacking in this
area

TIA

john


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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 08:01:29 -0500
From: "John MacNamara"
Subject: RE: FTE Perf - 460's and roller rockers

John: I run the competition cams magnum rockers and I think they are all
you need for a street motor. Full roller rockers are a waste of money IMHO.
Besides these are cheaper, around $125 I think.




Thanks
John MacNamara

74 Stroppe
67GT500
78 F250 Supercab 4x4






- -----Original Message-----
From: jniolon uss.com [mailto:jniolon uss.com]
Sent: Friday, July 02, 1999 4:58 AM
To: perf-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: FTE Perf - 460's and roller rockers




gentlemen and all the others like me,

Started working on the 460 again... I'm considering a set of roller
rockers. Can those of you with all the experience give me the pro's and
con's of rollers. Don't plan on a radical cam and see the advantage mostly
of reduced friction. Any recommendations on brands ??? Is Crane THAT much
better than Harland Sharp to justify the cost. Any problems encountered
??? I know I have to mill down the pedestals and redrill for 7/16" studs,
use guide plates and hardened pushrods what about lengths... I assume that
stock length rods will not work. right ???

I'd appreciate any input, cause my knowledge base is sorely lacking in this
area

TIA

john


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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 02 Jul 1999 08:24:48 -0500
From: Steve Randa
Subject: FTE Perf - Charging problems

First off I had to get a jump after work. I noticed the amp. gauge on my
'84 was way above normal as the rpms went up. As you may know, the amp
gauge isn't incredibly informative. Its normally just a hair over from
straight up and usually doesn't move more than another hair either way.
It got to the 3/4 mark driving around! I got home and tried to start it
again immediately and I didn't even get a dome light. I lifted the hood
and the alternator was so hot I couldn't keep my hand there. The
regulator was not quite as hot and the positive battery cable was very
warm. My first assumption was that the regulator is shot since it
couldn't keep a steady charge but that's not to say something could be
wrong with the alternator. Maybe it's getting ready to lock up...but I
don't hear any bearings screeching. I don't need any underhood fires!

Steve Randa
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 02 Jul 1999 08:43:48 -0500
From: William S Hart
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - fuel line

>I need to replace the fuel line that goes from the tank to fuel pump in my
>'79 4X4. Is is safe to use rubber line? I know that steel is best but I hate
>bending that stuff, can the aluminum type be bent by hand with out it
>crimping?
>
I understand your wanting to use rubber, but I'd be afraid it would pickup
heat and hold it for quite a while (introducing vapor lock problems), not
to mention it is much softer and more prone to damage, especially if you do
any wheeling ... Aluminum may be easier to bend, though you will still want
to be patient with it.... How many bends do you need? Could you consider
using rubber in the really bad bending areas, and then long sections of
straight pipe?



Just my 2cents

wish

Links http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish/links.html
'73 1/2 ton 4x4 Ford http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish/truck.html
'96 Mustang GT http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish/mustang.html
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 02 Jul 1999 09:03:02 -0500
From: Steve Randa
Subject: FTE Perf - Charging problems

First off I had to get a jump after work. I noticed the amp. gauge on my
'84 was way above normal as the rpms went up. As you may know, the amp
gauge isn't incredibly informative. Its normally just a hair over from
straight up and usually doesn't move more than another hair either way.
It got to the 3/4 mark driving around! I got home and tried to start it
again immediately and I didn't even get a dome light. I lifted the hood
and the alternator was so hot I couldn't keep my hand there. The
regulator was not quite as hot and the positive battery cable was very
warm. My first assumption was that the regulator is shot since it
couldn't keep a steady charge but that's not to say something could be
wrong with the alternator. Maybe it's getting ready to lock up...but I
don't hear any bearings screeching. I don't need any underhood fires!

Steve Randa
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 09:58:15 -0400
From: Sleddog
Subject: RE: FTE Perf - 460's and roller rockers

I run harland sharps in both my 521 cube puller, and my last build for a
460 that i used on the street and the track. Also have freinds that ran
them with no problems in motors that turned 9000+ rpms. so, i think
they'll work on the street well enough that the more expensive ones are not
worth it.

Watch out, some brands of roller rockers have a counterbore in them for a
smaller OD nut. These nuts tended to crack on a friends engine. after
seeing that i stayed with harland sharps. i can't remember the brand, but
it was the good steel rollers from crane, CC, or crower, whatever. on a
street engine, it most likely makes no difference though i would imagine.

i find 2 cons to roller rockers. one is price. 2 is the possibility for a
bearing failure. however remote it exists, and i've seen what can happen.

if you do go with rollers, the crane conversion kit that uses the pedestal
mounts does work well. i used it. it's biggest problem is that you must
remove a few of the mounts to get the heads off. Unless you use socket
head bolts or maybe 12 point bolts for the heads.

sleddog

- ----------
From: jniolon uss.com[SMTP:jniolon uss.com]
Sent: Friday, July 02, 1999 7:57 AM
To: perf-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: FTE Perf - 460's and roller rockers



gentlemen and all the others like me,

Started working on the 460 again... I'm considering a set of roller
rockers. Can those of you with all the experience give me the pro's and
con's of rollers. Don't plan on a radical cam and see the advantage mostly
of reduced friction. Any recommendations on brands ??? Is Crane THAT much
better than Harland Sharp to justify the cost. Any problems encountered
??? I know I have to mill down the pedestals and redrill for 7/16" studs,
use guide plates and hardened pushrods what about lengths... I assume that
stock length rods will not work. right ???

I'd appreciate any input, cause my knowledge base is sorely lacking in this
area

TIA

john


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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 07:12:16 -0700
From: "O'Connell, Dennis M"
Subject: RE: FTE Perf - 460's and roller rockers

John and John,

I have a 70 429 and changed from pedestal to adjustable rockers and tried
the magnum roller rockers. I couldn't get the valve geometry right.
Several sets of different length push rods later I called Ford Power Train
in Washington and they recommended the full roller rockers with a stock
length push rod. They didn't recommend the magnums for my 429 for the same
reason I stated above. The year of your 460 may make a difference.

Couple of things to watch for;

If you go with the magnums, check and make sure the rollers are centering on
the valve. After they're in and you run it for a while, again check that
they are centered. Mine were off and rolled the tip of the valve. Result
new SS valves and another bucket of money. Another thing to watch out for is
the guide plates. I bought one set that when stamped the ends of the slot
where the pushrod rides narrowed, so that when the rod moved up with any
change in angle it bound and shaved the pushrod. Even the hardened ones.
Bought another set, I believe Comp Cams, and they were fine. Also went with
Comp cams hardened pushrods, overkill and expensive, but by that time I
wanted no more problems.

Hope this helps.

Dennis
55F100

> ----------
> From: John MacNamara[SMTP:jmacnam nortelnetworks.com]
> Reply To: perf-list ford-trucks.com
> Sent: Friday, July 02, 1999 6:01 AM
> To: 'perf-list ford-trucks.com'
> Subject: RE: FTE Perf - 460's and roller rockers
>
> John: I run the competition cams magnum rockers and I think they are all
> you need for a street motor. Full roller rockers are a waste of money
> IMHO.
> Besides these are cheaper, around $125 I think.
>
>
>
>
> Thanks
> John MacNamara
>
> 74 Stroppe
> 67GT500
> 78 F250 Supercab 4x4
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: jniolon uss.com [mailto:jniolon uss.com]
> Sent: Friday, July 02, 1999 4:58 AM
> To: perf-list ford-trucks.com
> Subject: FTE Perf - 460's and roller rockers
>
>
>
>
> gentlemen and all the others like me,
>
> Started working on the 460 again... I'm considering a set of roller
> rockers. Can those of you with all the experience give me the pro's and
> con's of rollers. Don't plan on a radical cam and see the advantage
> mostly
> of reduced friction. Any recommendations on brands ??? Is Crane THAT much
> better than Harland Sharp to justify the cost. Any problems encountered
> ??? I know I have to mill down the pedestals and redrill for 7/16"
> studs,
> use guide plates and hardened pushrods what about lengths... I assume
> that
> stock length rods will not work. right ???
>
> I'd appreciate any input, cause my knowledge base is sorely lacking in
> this
> area
>
> TIA
>
> john
>
>
> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
>
== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 10:24:26 -0400
From: "John MacNamara"
Subject: RE: FTE Perf - 460's and roller rockers

Thanks for the info. As I remember some of my rockers weren't perfectly
centered. Maybe I will pop a valve cover and check.




Thanks
John MacNamara

74 Stroppe
67GT500
78 F250 Supercab 4x4







- -----Original Message-----
From: O'Connell, Dennis M [mailto:DMO1 pge.com]
Sent: Friday, July 02, 1999 7:12 AM
To: 'perf-list ford-trucks.com'
Subject: RE: FTE Perf - 460's and roller rockers


John and John,

I have a 70 429 and changed from pedestal to adjustable rockers and tried
the magnum roller rockers. I couldn't get the valve geometry right.
Several sets of different length push rods later I called Ford Power Train
in Washington and they recommended the full roller rockers with a stock
length push rod. They didn't recommend the magnums for my 429 for the same
reason I stated above. The year of your 460 may make a difference.

Couple of things to watch for;

If you go with the magnums, check and make sure the rollers are centering on
the valve. After they're in and you run it for a while, again check that
they are centered. Mine were off and rolled the tip of the valve. Result
new SS valves and another bucket of money. Another thing to watch out for is
the guide plates. I bought one set that when stamped the ends of the slot
where the pushrod rides narrowed, so that when the rod moved up with any
change in angle it bound and shaved the pushrod. Even the hardened ones.
Bought another set, I believe Comp Cams, and they were fine. Also went with
Comp cams hardened pushrods, overkill and expensive, but by that time I
wanted no more problems.

Hope this helps.

Dennis
55F100

> ----------
> From: John MacNamara[SMTP:jmacnam nortelnetworks.com]
> Reply To: perf-list ford-trucks.com
> Sent: Friday, July 02, 1999 6:01 AM
> To: 'perf-list ford-trucks.com'
> Subject: RE: FTE Perf - 460's and roller rockers
>
> John: I run the competition cams magnum rockers and I think they are all
> you need for a street motor. Full roller rockers are a waste of money
> IMHO.
> Besides these are cheaper, around $125 I think.
>
>
>
>
> Thanks
> John MacNamara
>
> 74 Stroppe
> 67GT500
> 78 F250 Supercab 4x4
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: jniolon uss.com [mailto:jniolon uss.com]
> Sent: Friday, July 02, 1999 4:58 AM
> To: perf-list ford-trucks.com
> Subject: FTE Perf - 460's and roller rockers
>
>
>
>
> gentlemen and all the others like me,
>
> Started working on the 460 again... I'm considering a set of roller
> rockers. Can those of you with all the experience give me the pro's and
> con's of rollers. Don't plan on a radical cam and see the advantage
> mostly
> of reduced friction. Any recommendations on brands ??? Is Crane THAT much
> better than Harland Sharp to justify the cost. Any problems encountered
> ??? I know I have to mill down the pedestals and redrill for 7/16"
> studs,
> use guide plates and hardened pushrods what about lengths... I assume
> that
> stock length rods will not work. right ???
>
> I'd appreciate any input, cause my knowledge base is sorely lacking in
> this
> area
>
> TIA
>
> john
>
>
> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
>
== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 11:06:02 -0400
From: am14 daimlerchrysler.com
Subject: FTE Perf - Point settings

Shane writes: >>Gap them to about 17 hundredths and you should
be good to go.

Thousandths (.017")NOT hundredths (.17").

Azie
Ardmore, Al.


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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 12:20:50 EDT
From: Bogginf350 AOL.COM
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - 460's and roller rockers

well, i run the harland sharps on my race motor and have yet to have any
problems. i also run a set of d2oe-ab 1972 police interceptor heads. These
heads came with guideplates, and 7/16 screw in rocker studs. for the machine
work you will have to do... it would almost be better to invest in a good set
of cast heads. Either c8ve c9ve or dove-c or dove-a and these heads have the
screw in studs and a 72cc chamber as opposed to the 96cc on the d3ve-a2a
which im guessing you have. And will give you quite the compressin boost..
well.. hope i was a little help..
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 02 Jul 1999 13:14:38 -0500
From: jniolon uss.com
Subject: FTE Perf - compression ratios

I've received a lesson this week in calculating compression ratios and
clearance volumes
and since I have the memory of a sieve, I've worked up a calculation sheet
that is 'fill in the blank'.

I'm sure the experienced ones won't need it, but I'm sure there are some
other that are formula-icly challenged like me
that could benefit from my lesson as much as I did. Ive forwarded a copy
to Ken to put on the web page if there is room
available and he thinks it's worthy

john


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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 23:19:17 EDT
From: WJeff43....

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