perf-list-digest Saturday, September 26 1998 Volume 01 : Number 100



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Ford Truck Enthusiasts - Performance
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In this issue:

Re: FTE Perf - SVO 460
FTE Perf - Tom Ewing - 9" Differential
FTE Perf - 9" axles was SVO 460
RE: FTE Perf - Tom Ewing - 9" Differential
RE: FTE Perf - Tom Ewing - 9" Differential
RE: FTE Perf - Tom Ewing - 9" Differential
FTE Perf - Re: SVO 460 (rearend)
RE: FTE Perf - Re: SVO 460 (rearend)

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Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 09:57:31 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - SVO 460

From: "Tom Ewing"
Subject: FTE Perf - SVO 460
Date sent: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 20:54:18 -0700

> motor to say about 435hp naturally aspirated, can I use the existing Dana
> 44 differential, or should I not waste time and money and just go for the
> Ford 9 inch from the outset.

58's use dana 44's? The 9" ford is certainly stronger but with a locker you
are sharing the axle load evenly so they will probably hold up. The carrier
caps are the weak point of the Dana as I understand it and there are HD cap
reinforcements available for that if you want to keep the dana rear.

The 429 is a cool engine and will make that truck go plenty fast enough to
make you grin so either way is cool but if you need to replace the pistions
anyway, all you need is a 460 crank to make it a 460 (along with the new 460
pistions of course). Everything else is the same. So if the crank needs
grinding you can get a PAW reground 460 crank kit with bearings for $170
and pistons of your choice and you have a 460 for almost the same cost as
a rebuilt 429 :-)


A son-in-law only takes part of a daughter away,
Dad keeps the best part :-)

- -- Gary --


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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 07:11:01 -0700
From: George
Subject: FTE Perf - Tom Ewing - 9" Differential

Sorry for breaking the thread but I'm currently unable to respond to the
list in reply mode.

A stock 9" w/31 spline axles will easily handle 450hp. Problem is that all
the Lincoln, T-Bird & Versailles 9" that came with rear disc brakes were 28
spline axles. So if you want the 31 spline, you'll have to adapt the rear
disc brakes. There are lots of aftermarket kits out there which do that.
The '71-79 Ranchero/Torino 31 spliners (65" flange to flange) are
considered one of the best performance axle/housings around. '73-86
half-ton P/Us also had 31 spliners (63"). Be careful, some were also
shipped with 28 spliners. You might get lucky and discover the best, a
nodular iron unit from an old muscle car or Galaxie w/towing package.

George Miller


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Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 12:44:28 -0400
From: Sleddog
Subject: FTE Perf - 9" axles was SVO 460

the harder you get it to hook on the track, the faster it will break the
44. on the street i wouldn't hesitate to run the 44 with up to 450 crank
hp about. not saying it woldn't break, but i'd try it. on the track, a
hard launch will shred those lighter axles. the ring, pinion, carrier,
bearing caps, all weak. a 9" is the strongest axle available per dollar
spent.

the boneyard may have some with disks, does your 44 have disks now?

also many places will sell you a complete, or rebuild your axle core for a
decent price, making it with disks, and the right width you need if it is
different than the large number of 9" housings used in the 70's trucks.

FYI there are a few 9" housings designs. be sure to get the stronger one.
if you look at the axle from the back, the stamped steel sections that
hold the tubes to the center, some are longer than others. the ones that
are longer are stronger. if your truck weighs in at over 5,000 lbs, i
would consider a nodular iron center section if you intend on being able to
launch hard without much wheel spin.

the 9" is also an easy axle to build from scratch so to speak. you can get
a bare housing from the bone yard, and get a center section with all gears
done and set up if you prefer from like precision gear with a locker in it
already (about $900 when i bouhgt one) and then get the disk kit, or find
them in scrap yard. I do not know on what cars to find them on with disks.

FWIW if you want to go nuts, many 9" rears are fitted for the coil spring
rears of the cars. they could make a neat setup for a drag truck.

also, watch the axle tube ends. i found out that the bolt spacing of the 4
bolts that holds the axle retaining plate in has at least 2 different
spacings. i learned the hard way. appears the newer axle had the
"unusual" spacing.

later
sleddog

- ----------
From: Tom Ewing[SMTP:ewing napanet.net]
Sent: Thursday, September 24, 1998 11:54 PM
To: Performance Ford Trucks
Subject: FTE Perf - SVO 460

Thanks for your responses on the SVO 460 crate motor I was considering.
After
reading and thinking, I'll probably just rebuild the 429. I've got a few
parts around
already if the block is shown to be useable, etc. I've got an Edelbrock
750
carb as
well as their Performer RPM intake. I spoke with Edelbrock Tech today, and
I
understand that they will soon(a few months) have an aluminum head for the
429-460 motors. If I build this motor to say about 435hp naturally
aspirated, can
I use the existing Dana 44 differential, or should I not waste time and
money
and just go for the Ford 9 inch from the outset. I don't want to use the
Dana 44
and maybe even add a locker, new rear wheels, and whatever just to have it
go
prematurely. If I go for the Ford 9 inch, I guess? I will need to look in
a
salvage
yard for a unit with discs as well, and a width I can use with the 58F100.
Any
suggestions?
Tom
All grown up still plays with trucks.

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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 12:55:11 -0400
From: Sleddog
Subject: RE: FTE Perf - Tom Ewing - 9" Differential

i knew i forgot something in my post! the splines! the 28 spline is pretty weak compared to the 31 splines.

sleddog

- ----------
From: George[SMTP:mega55 lv.rmci.net]
Sent: Friday, September 25, 1998 10:11 AM
To: Ford Truck Performance List (E-mail)
Subject: FTE Perf - Tom Ewing - 9" Differential

Sorry for breaking the thread but I'm currently unable to respond to the
list in reply mode.

A stock 9" w/31 spline axles will easily handle 450hp. Problem is that all
the Lincoln, T-Bird & Versailles 9" that came with rear disc brakes were 28
spline axles. So if you want the 31 spline, you'll have to adapt the rear
disc brakes. There are lots of aftermarket kits out there which do that.
The '71-79 Ranchero/Torino 31 spliners (65" flange to flange) are
considered one of the best performance axle/housings around. '73-86
half-ton P/Us also had 31 spliners (63"). Be careful, some were also
shipped with 28 spliners. You might get lucky and discover the best, a
nodular iron unit from an old muscle car or Galaxie w/towing package.

George Miller


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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 13:15:01 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: RE: FTE Perf - Tom Ewing - 9" Differential

From: Sleddog
Subject: RE: FTE Perf - Tom Ewing - 9" Differential
Date sent: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 12:55:11 -0400

> i knew i forgot something in my post! the splines! the 28 spline is
> pretty weak compared to the 31 splines.

It's all relative of course. My van with stock 460 and 33" tires never broke
the 28 spline axles and I yanked tree trunks out of dead falls with it with
abandon and pulled hole shots etc. so it depends on what you plan to do
with it. It had about 170k on it when I junked it (still have the axle though :-))

If you lay them beside each other though the 31 is huge compared to the 28 :-
)

A son-in-law only takes part of a daughter away,
Dad keeps the best part :-)

- -- Gary --


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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 13:32:22 -0400
From: Sleddog
Subject: RE: FTE Perf - Tom Ewing - 9" Differential

he said he planned on doing the weekend drags.

the digs can break the 28's easy. some people running the 28's in the
mustangs (originally a 8.8" rear) are breaking them and that is a light car
with alot less torque.

on the strip, there is copious amounts of traction compared to the street,
and if the chassis is set up properly, and the tires are the proper ones,
0-60ft times for his truck with a good converter, low rear gears, and a
good launch should be right close to the light fox bodies or the draggin
dodge dakotas (very good launches!)

the stress in the rear will be immense! consider the torque of lats say
520 ft lbs, 5000lbs truck, a converter giving 1.75x the output minimum
multiplication, and the c6 first gear, and the rear gears with a decent
size tire, and you see that the rear axles get a hard shock and a very
strong twist in them. the higher the flash speed of the converter, the
harder the shock load too. i think some kind of traction/anti axle twist
device will be mandatory for this combo for any hard launching, or the hard
parts will be launching right out the side.

i have never broken the axle itself, but i have stripped the splines right
off and that was with an open differential! ran bent axles for years - no
problems, now one is still bent on the 77, other is replaced (stripped
splines).

sleddog

- ----------
From: Gary, 78 BBB[SMTP:gpeters3 ford.com]
Sent: Friday, September 25, 1998 9:15 AM
To: perf-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: RE: FTE Perf - Tom Ewing - 9" Differential

From: Sleddog
Subject: RE: FTE Perf - Tom Ewing - 9" Differential
Date sent: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 12:55:11 -0400

> i knew i forgot something in my post! the splines! the 28 spline is
> pretty weak compared to the 31 splines.

It's all relative of course. My van with stock 460 and 33" tires never
broke
the 28 spline axles and I yanked tree trunks out of dead falls with it with
abandon and pulled hole shots etc. so it depends on what you plan to do
with it. It had about 170k on it when I junked it (still have the axle
though :-))

If you lay them beside each other though the 31 is huge compared to the 28
:-
)

A son-in-law only takes part of a daughter away,
Dad keeps the best part :-)

- -- Gary --


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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 18:39:55 -0500
From: lordjanusz juno.com (Paul M Radecki)
Subject: FTE Perf - Re: SVO 460 (rearend)

. If I go for the Ford 9 inch, I guess? I will need to
>look in a
>salvage
>yard for a unit with discs as well, and a width I can use with the
>58F100.
>Any
>suggestions?

I believe the Lincoln Versailles came with a 9" rear with discs.
Don't ask me what years, but that's what the hot rod guys use according
to "Camaro Craft". SVO also offers a drum-to-disc conversion kit based
on Explorer components, but I'm not certain if it fits the 9" or just the
8.8". Width can be altered, or you can just choose your rear wheel width
and backspacing to match whatever rearend you decide to use. I suspect
you'll have to modify the spring perches no matter what, though I could
be wrong. It would just be TOO easy if anything "bolted right up".
Speaking of rearends, does anyone care to pontificate on the
performace/longevity potential of the 8.8" vis-a-vis the 9"? Like, if
the 9" was as great as everyone says, why did they mess with it?

>Tom
>All grown up still plays with trucks.

If I grow up I, too, will still play with trucks. :-)

lordjanusz juno.com

"The beatings will continue until morale improves..."

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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 21:05:42 -0400
From: Sleddog
Subject: RE: FTE Perf - Re: SVO 460 (rearend)

the 8.8 will hold up to quite a powerful 302 in a fox body stang, and they
work very well for the kit cobra cars i understand, but they can't take the
abuse the 9" can with big blocks, and heavy cars.

the 9" is also easier to rebuild, and easier to modify. also it has more
gear ratios available than any other rear AFAIK.

i think they stopped making because of cost, not performance. and there
are companies out there that are still producing the housing itself using
fords old tooling, or ford is still making it. can't remember which.

sleddog

- ----------
From: Paul M Radecki[SMTP:lordjanusz JUNO.COM]
Sent: Friday, September 25, 1998 7:39 PM
To: perf-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: FTE Perf - Re: SVO 460 (rearend)


. If I go for the Ford 9 inch, I guess? I will need to
>look in a
>salvage
>yard for a unit with discs as well, and a width I can use with the
>58F100.
>Any
>suggestions?

I believe the Lincoln Versailles came with a 9" rear with discs.
Don't ask me what years, but that's what the hot rod guys use according
to "Camaro Craft". SVO also offers a drum-to-disc conversion kit based
on Explorer components, but I'm not certain if it fits the 9" or just the
8.8". Width can be altered, or you can just choose your rear wheel width
and backspacing to match whatever rearend you decide to use. I suspect
you'll have to modify the spring perches no matter what, though I could
be wrong. It would just be TOO easy if anything "bolted right up".
Speaking of rearends, does anyone care to pontificate on the
performace/longevity potential of the 8.8" vis-a-vis the 9"? Like, if
the 9" was as great as everyone says, why did they mess with it?

>Tom
>All grown up still plays with trucks.

If I grow up I, too, will still play with trucks. :-)

lordjanusz juno.com

"The beatings will continue until morale improves..."

___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.juno.com....


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