perf-list-digest Thursday, April 22 1999 Volume 02 : Number 094



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Ford Truck Enthusiasts - Performance
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In this issue:

FTE Perf - RE: U-Joints and Lifting
Re: FTE Perf - OHC's and multiple valves
FTE Perf - 460 vs V10
FTE Perf - engine mods
FTE Perf - Big Rig Engine Size (was OHC's and multiple valves)
Re: FTE Perf - OHC's and multiple valves
Re: FTE Perf - OHC's and multiple valves
Re: FTE Perf - 460 vs V10
Re: FTE Perf - 460 vs V10
Re: FTE Perf - 460 vs V10
FTE Perf - Re: OHC's and multiple valves
Re: FTE Perf - Re: OHC's and multiple valves
Re: FTE Perf - engine mods
Re: FTE Perf - OHC's and multiple valves
Re: FTE Perf - OHC's and multiple valves

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Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 08:06:55 -0500
From: Paul M Radecki
Subject: FTE Perf - RE: U-Joints and Lifting

>>I have a 4 inch suspension lift on my 79 F150 4x4, and
>>someone told me the other day that the angle that my driveshaft is at
>>will cause me to throw u-joints left and right, **SNIP**

This problem is most often associated with excessive suspension travel; a
mostly stock suspension with a lift should be okay if you're not a
serious back-country wheeler. The exception is if you have a short
wheelbase truck with a lot of liftage. It's all a matter of geometry. A
good 4X4 or driveline shop should be able to tell you how much is "too
much", and suggest a solution. If you do have a problem it is possible
to have the axle rotated a few degrees so that the pinion points up
towards the transmission rather than horizontally.

lordjanusz juno.com
'94 F150
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Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 08:51:26 -0500
From: William S Hart
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - OHC's and multiple valves

>> Hmm.. what kind of 1/4 Mile time would I get with that in my B-II? ;-)
>>
>> Sounds like a quarter mile of driveline parts strewn about the track...LOL!!
>
>I think the nose would be on the tarmac so the time would be moot. :-)
>
Assuming you can get that motor between the fenders of course ... though
the look of a motor with a frame strapped to it is always cool ...


>I'm interested too.. that's *awsome* torque. Enough to make me think
>better of diesels!

Don't diesels usually make some "awsome" torque ? I figured that was why
tractors and all those types used it ... that and its efficiency ...


Just my 2cents

wish

Links http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish/links.html
'73 1/2 ton 4x4 Ford http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish/truck.html
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Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 08:55:55 -0500
From: William S Hart
Subject: FTE Perf - 460 vs V10

I was flipping through a buddy's Motor Trend ... they ran the 0-150-0
tests for a bunch of cars (Vipers, Saleen, Steeda, etc) As I was flipping
through there, they had an article on a 4x4 supercab dually pickup(F350).
Just sort of scanned the article, and thought it was pretty interesting.
They are sold on the new OHC V10, they showed the numbers from testing a
similar truck a few years ago with a 460 ... the V10 just blew it away, 3
sec faster 0-60 and about the same or a little more in the 1/4. Not that
these are always indications of torque, but they are indications of power,
and how well the truck is putting it to the ground. They didn't think
there was any comparison in the motors, some of that may have been because
the sohc was smoother too ... Ironically it didn't handle as well though
... dunno what that tells us about the suspension, other than don't go
flying through a slalom in your dually ... as if we couldn't figure that
out ourselves ...

anyway, thought it was an interesting article.


Just my 2cents

wish

Links http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish/links.html
'73 1/2 ton 4x4 Ford http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish/truck.html
'96 Mustang GT http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish/mustang.html
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Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 10:53:04 -0500
From: christopher niels barker
Subject: FTE Perf - engine mods

i have a 91 f150 with a 300 straight six and i want to modify the engine
for greater performance. however, i have heard that some mods can confuse
the control module resulting in poor performance. does anyone know of
parts that i can use or places i can look for such parts?

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Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 10:57:10 +0000
From: Erston Reisch
Subject: FTE Perf - Big Rig Engine Size (was OHC's and multiple valves)

"C. K. Hartline" wrote:
>
> > Hmm.. what kind of 1/4 Mile time would I get with that in my B-II? ;-)
>
> How big is the engine on that monster?

C.K.: I'm guessing about the size of the B-II in question. :=)

- - Erston ('90 F-150)



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Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 12:00:29 -0600
From: "Dave Resch"
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - OHC's and multiple valves

>From: Tim Turner
>Subject: Re: FTE Perf - OHC's and multiple valves
>
>I think the nose would be on the tarmac so the
>time would be moot. :-)
>
>> You'd have to really beef up the driveline for that
>> kind of power. How big is the engine on that
>> monster?
>
>I'm interested too.. that's *awsome* torque. Enough
>to make me think better of diesels!

Yo Tim & CK:

The Cat 3406 is an inline six-cylinder engine. The 600 hp version displaces
15.8L (966 cid) and weighs about 3000 lbs dry. They are used in Class 8 (heavy
OTR) trucks, power generators, and marine applications.

BTW: You'd have to beef up the driveline on a Class 8 truck, too; normal heavy
truck components are only rated for up to 1850 lb-ft torque.

The 3406 is Cat's top-dog in on-road vehicle engines, but it's a weenie compared
to their 3616 marine engine. That's a V-16 that displaces 295.6L (18,036 cid)
and coughs out 34,652 lb-ft torque and 6598 bhp 1000 rpm. It would also be a
bit hard on the old B-II front springs w/ a dry weight of 65,900 lbs, though.

FTE content? The Cat 3406 engine was an option in the Ford AeroMax/LTL trucks.

Dave R (M-block devotee)


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Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 14:36:34 -0400
From: Garr&Pam
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - OHC's and multiple valves

William S Hart wrote:
>
> >> Hmm.. what kind of 1/4 Mile time would I get with that in my B-II? ;-)
> >>
> >> Sounds like a quarter mile of driveline parts strewn about the track...LOL!!
> >
> >I think the nose would be on the tarmac so the time would be moot. :-)
> >
> Assuming you can get that motor between the fenders of course ... though
> the look of a motor with a frame strapped to it is always cool ...
>
> >I'm interested too.. that's *awsome* torque. Enough to make me think
> >better of diesels!
>
> Don't diesels usually make some "awsome" torque ? I figured that was why
> tractors and all those types used it ... that and its efficiency ...
>
> Just my 2cents

Most diesels make awesome torque...The Powerstroke is suppose to be at
least 500ft lbs!
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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 14:44:16 -0400
From: Garr&Pam
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - 460 vs V10

William S Hart wrote:
>
> I was flipping through a buddy's Motor Trend ... they ran the 0-150-0
> tests for a bunch of cars (Vipers, Saleen, Steeda, etc) As I was flipping
> through there, they had an article on a 4x4 supercab dually pickup(F350).
> Just sort of scanned the article, and thought it was pretty interesting.
> They are sold on the new OHC V10, they showed the numbers from testing a
> similar truck a few years ago with a 460 ... the V10 just blew it away, 3
> sec faster 0-60 and about the same or a little more in the 1/4. Not that
> these are always indications of torque, but they are indications of power,
> and how well the truck is putting it to the ground. They didn't think
> there was any comparison in the motors, some of that may have been because
> the sohc was smoother too ... Ironically it didn't handle as well though
> ... dunno what that tells us about the suspension, other than don't go
> flying through a slalom in your dually ... as if we couldn't figure that

I am going to take a guess at this..jus a guess...the old way of
thinking was a F350 w a 460 was obviously going to be pulling so the
geared it real low...which is awesome if you are pulling stumps, but a 4
spd auto just doesn't get the 460s rpms down to where it is making its
power at! This is another reason for poor gas mileage. As was mentioned
earlier the new trucks are geared higher cause they are prone to highway
driving! I have a buddy running a mustang just got done putting a new
5.0 in and was running 13s change the rear to 4.10s and now his best run
was a 14.3 but if you take of in second gear it will still fry the
tires. It takes the right gears to do a certain task! Just like the
Suburba Expedition battle earlier...yep the Expedition was faster than
the SUB...but the SUB had a 3000lb towing advantage...it all depends on
what you want form the truck!
Chris
94 Lightning #381
NLOC #238
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Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 11:47:14 -0700
From: "Rob Bryan"
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - 460 vs V10

> It takes the right gears to do a certain task! Just like the
> Suburba Expedition battle earlier...yep the Expedition was faster than
> the SUB...but the SUB had a 3000lb towing advantage...it all depends on
> what you want form the truck!

That advantage was from it having a 3/4 ton chassis and axles, not from it's
"superior" powertrain performance.

Rob
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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 15:13:08 -0400
From: Garr&Pam
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - 460 vs V10

Rob Bryan wrote:
>
> > It takes the right gears to do a certain task! Just like the
> > Suburba Expedition battle earlier...yep the Expedition was faster than
> > the SUB...but the SUB had a 3000lb towing advantage...it all depends on
> > what you want form the truck!
>
> That advantage was from it having a 3/4 ton chassis and axles, not from it's
> "superior" powertrain performance.
>
I had forgotten that all SUBs are now on 3/4 ton chassis' now...one of
the ways that they can meet the EPA standards!
Thanks
Chris
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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 13:39:27 -0700
From: Vogt Family
Subject: FTE Perf - Re: OHC's and multiple valves

On Tue, 20 Apr 1999, "C. K. Hartline" wrote:
>
> Hmm.. what kind of 1/4 Mile time would I get with that in my B-II? ;-)
>
> Sounds like a quarter mile of driveline parts strewn about the track...LOL!!
>
> You'd have to really beef up the driveline for that kind of power. How big
> is the engine on that monster?

It is 964 cubic inches. It is 5 feet long, 3-1/2 feet wide, and 4-1/2
feet tall. It weighs almost 3000 lbs dry. Ford truck content: it would
not fit under the hood of any Ford truck.

Birken
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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 16:55:44 -0500
From: William S Hart
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - Re: OHC's and multiple valves

>It is 964 cubic inches. It is 5 feet long, 3-1/2 feet wide, and 4-1/2
>feet tall. It weighs almost 3000 lbs dry. Ford truck content: it would
>not fit under the hood of any Ford truck.
>
All depends on how much body lift you've got :)

just kidding, that's one heck of a motor though ... one of my buddys threw
me a few bearings and said "guess what these are out of..." It was the
crank journal bearing inserts from a couple marine motors ... one was
probably 6" diameter, the other closer to 10 or 12 ...

Impressive stuff, just not real mobile ... in the land based sense....


Just my 2cents

wish

Links http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish/links.html
'73 1/2 ton 4x4 Ford http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish/truck.html
'96 Mustang GT http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish/mustang.html
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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 17:27:15 -0700
From: George Miller
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - engine mods

The archives have several threads on performance parts for the 300.

George Miller

christopher niels barker wrote:
>
> i have a 91 f150 with a 300 straight six and i want to modify the engine
> for greater performance. however, i have heard that some mods can confuse
> the control module resulting in poor performance. does anyone know of
> parts that i can use or places i can look for such parts?
>
> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 21:02:52 -0400
From: Tim Turner
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - OHC's and multiple valves

Dave Resch wrote:
>

> The 3406 is Cat's top-dog in on-road vehicle engines, but it's a weenie compared
> to their 3616 marine engine. That's a V-16 that displaces 295.6L (18,036 cid)
> and coughs out 34,652 lb-ft torque and 6598 bhp 1000 rpm. It would also be a
> bit hard on the old B-II front springs w/ a dry weight of 65,900 lbs, though.

Hmm.. sounds like I'll have to use solid coils and elongate the front
end then. I suppose the weight transfer would preclude any jumping but
the fronts ought to get great traction off road. (if they dont blow from
the sheer weight!)

300 Liters.. whoo.. I guess this will be the power plant for the
(larger) successor to the Excursion. :=)

Tim
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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 18:12:18 -0700
From: JJ Thomas
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - OHC's and multiple valves

It *might* fit in the back of the excursion. I imagine the fuel
consumption is rated per revolution.

If I hit the lottery, I may be in search of one of these engines, just for
bragging rights.

- -Julian

At 21:02 04/21/99 -0400, you wrote:
>
>
>Dave Resch wrote:
>>
>
>> The 3406 is Cat's top-dog in on-road vehicle engines, but it's a weenie
>compared
>> to their 3616 marine engine. That's a V-16 that displaces 295.6L (18,036
>cid)
>> and coughs out 34,652 lb-ft torque and 6598 bhp 1000 rpm. It would also
>be a
>> bit hard on the old B-II front springs w/ a dry weight of 65,900 lbs,
though.
>
>Hmm.. sounds like I'll have to use solid coils and elongate the front
>end then. I suppose the weight transfer would preclude any jumping but
>the fronts ought to get great traction off road. (if they dont blow from....


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