perf-list-digest Saturday, April 10 1999 Volume 02 : Number 082



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Ford Truck Enthusiasts - Performance
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In this issue:

Re: FTE Perf - T C Bolts
FTE Perf - V-10 Engines
Re: FTE Perf - T C Bolts
Re: FTE Perf - V10 Ford?
Re: FTE Perf - V10 Ford?
RE: FTE Perf - Push Rod vs. OHC
Re: FTE Perf - V10 Ford?
FTE Perf - HELP ME IDENTIFY A FE, 360 390 428??
Re: FTE Perf - HELP ME IDENTIFY A FE, 360 390 428??
Re: FTE Perf - V10 Ford?
Re: FTE Perf - V10 Ford?

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Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 07:05:47 EDT
From: FLR150 AOL.COM
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - T C Bolts

Wish,
Just a question about the goofy exhaust route, do you have dual tanks? And
second, how long ago was this run? If it were me (its not but I'll say it
anyway) Take it back and make them do it right...FOR FREE!
Wayne Foy
'94 Flareside SC
"Hazardous Material"

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Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 07:48:23 -0700 (PDT)
From: Bill
Subject: FTE Perf - V-10 Engines

Just following the thread on the V-10s... well this isnt directly
performance related but....

Rented a Uhaul made on a E350.. 17 ft box... loaded with a 2 bedroom
apartment's stuff, pulling a car dolly with an 86 O*ds on it.. V-10 was
the power plant and I could merge with traffic on any onramp on any
innerstate highway.. it would pull strong to the govenor cutoff (around
75).. now that was plenty of torque for me.. and by the way..got 10
mpg average for the 1200 mile trip from Illinois to Texas..

Bill in Texas
'64 F100 (302/C4.. soon to be replaced with a warm '70 351W)
_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?

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Date: Fri, 09 Apr 1999 09:56:30 -0500
From: William S Hart
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - T C Bolts

>Wish,
>Just a question about the goofy exhaust route, do you have dual tanks?
No, I don't, that's why it seems so goofy to me.


And
>second, how long ago was this run? If it were me (its not but I'll say it
>anyway) Take it back and make them do it right...FOR FREE!

It was run quite a while ago. I noticed it at the time too, but it was
Dad's thing, he was doin it for me, so I didn't want to raise a stink.
Mostly we were just fixin it to get me through college, he was sure I'd buy
something else when I graduated ... and I did, just that I kept the truck
too!


Just my 2cents

wish

Links http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish/links.html
'73 1/2 ton 4x4 Ford http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish/truck.html
'96 Mustang GT http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish/mustang.html
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Date: Fri, 09 Apr 1999 11:33:21 -0400
From: Garr&Pam
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - V10 Ford?

> The basis for using a Triton V-10 is because, well...it gripes me when all
> these fellas take these pretty Fords and shove cheap Chevy stuff under them.
> I've been told over and over and over, there's just more chevy stuff out
> there and it's cheaper. I want my old Ford to be all Ford. Otherwise how
> come Ford isn't buying V-10's from Dodge and V-8's from Chevy to put in
> their vehicles from the factory? I think in the long run, it'll be more
> appreciated by folks who view the car that I kept it all Ford. Ultimately
> I'd like to paint the car white and put black/chrome-lipped rims on it with
> Ford moons, and call it a Wolf in Sheep's Clothing...the 41 has those two
> lower grills that kinda give the front end that 'nose' look....
>
I like your idea. But I have saw something the other day I did not like.
I passed by my local Licoln Mercury and Isuzu dealer and guess what was
out on the the lot...An Isuzu Hombre....(a rebadged S-10) being sold by
a Ford dealer...makes me wonder

I hope you get project complete and would love to see it when done.
Chris
94 Lightning #381
NLOC #238
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Date: Fri, 09 Apr 1999 10:37:00 -0500
From: William S Hart
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - V10 Ford?

>but Fords new OHC designs just aren't making the grade against the
>competition...
>Ford 6.8L V-10 275 hp
>Dodge 8.0L V-10 300-450hp(depends wether its a truck or a viper) the key
>is the torque from just off idle is over 400 ft lbs and never falls
>below this number! I bet it will be a long time before we see a OHC
>motor do that!


Okay, just a few links for you who don't believe in OHC's ... I know this isn't
truck stuff necessarily, but with the right gearing and cams anything can be
done

First off :

http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.seanhylandmotorsport.com/mihovet2.jpg

John Milhovetz 9.09/154. world's
quickest and fastest modular
engine powered car.

www3.corral.net/readers/vaccaro.html
A 12 sec. 4valve motor ... all motor, no blower, no nitrous....


http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.mustangworld.com/ourpics/News/select2.htm

this just has a few bolt ons, check out the dyno slips, I love that torque
curve too, if you want to call it that ... keep in mind this is for hauling a
3000 lb car around, not towing and a truck, a little cam work would straighten
things right out I think...


Anyway I couldn't find the guys runnin 400rwhp without a little more digging,
but I think you get the point. These motors are only a few years old (96 for
the stangs, 97 for trucks), so people haven't had a lot of time to dink with
them yet ... what was the popular opinion of the 5.0 when it came out in 67 ?
Don't think it was that great in the power dept....

Anyway I've rambled enough and everyone knows how I feel about the modulars.




Just my 2cents

wish

Links http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish/links.html
'73 1/2 ton 4x4 Ford http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish/truck.html
'96 Mustang GT http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish/mustang.html
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Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 13:46:58 -0400
From: Sleddog
Subject: RE: FTE Perf - Push Rod vs. OHC

Just short responce...
Torque is dependant upon more things than the stroke, and the cam.
Consider that more importantly is this, the quality and quantity of
avaialble fuel to burn.
Now, in general, but not always, the newer OHC engines, especially the 4
valve heads, have larger ports and valves and breath very well at higher
engines speeds. unfortunatly, though these ports will flow air well at
higher engine speed (meaning higher charge velocities in the port and
through the valve) their design limits the ability to breathe well at lower
engine speeds. These engines may make great overall power, but feel
sluggish at the bottom. The 4 valve heas also often suffer from poor
charge motion in the cylinder (tumble/swirl) and sometimes terrible overlap
problems like the chrysler hemi has where the intake charge comes in the
intake valve and shoots straight accross the cylinder out of the exhaust
valve. Poor charge motion also reduces the efficiency of the burn,
lowering torque, especially at lower rpms - the area that we feel torque
when we drive.

One more point. I have found as a driver, that 2 engines, one carbed, one
EFI, where the EFI engine is supposed to be a more powerful engine, the
carbed engine many times is more fun do drive because it responds they way
i expect it to. my foot moves, the power output changes. Many efi cars i
have driven semed very luggish at the bottom end even though they were
reported as having more torque in that area than a similiar pre EFI
car/truck.

Sleddog

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From: Brad Smith[SMTP:rbsmith unity.ncsu.edu]
Sent: Thursday, April 08, 1999 10:21 PM
To: perf-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: FTE Perf - Push Rod vs. OHC

You get torque from the stroke, and if the cams are doing
their job of getting the valves open, and more effeciently at that, how can
you say the motors aren't capable of producing the torque?

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Date: Fri, 09 Apr 1999 15:39:05 -0400
From: Garr&Pam
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - V10 Ford?

John Milhovetz 9.09/154. world's
quickest and fastest modular
engine powered car.


anything can be made to go fast...hell thier are 2 Lightnings in the
club that can outrun that! A TRUCK


www3.corral.net/readers/vaccaro.html

A 12 sec. 4valve motor ... all motor, no blower, no nitrous....


I can't take the time necessary to can't all the 12 sec 5.0L out there,
can you?

this just has a few bolt ons, check out the dyno slips, I love that
torque curve too, if you want to call it that ... keep in mind this is
for hauling a 3000 lb car around, not towing and a truck, a little cam
work would straighten things right out I think...

Anyway I couldn't find the guys runnin 400rwhp without a little more
digging, but I think you get the point. These motors are only a few
years old (96 for the stangs, 97 for trucks), so people haven't had a
lot of time to dink with them yet ... what was the popular opinion of
the 5.0 when it came out in 67 ? Don't think it was that great in the
power dept....

Explain why Chevys new motors make good power in their first year? I
hate Chevys with a passion but why can't FORD build power like that. Why
do we have to have to settle for less power for more money???

When I see a Mustang with OHC...GT or Cobra outrun a Z28 at the track or
a Ford truck outrun an equally equipped Chevy truck I will give the OHC
some credit...but it hasn't happened yet! Or better yet let Ford built a
Viper competitor and then we will see who is the fastest. Let see even
Mustang specialists Saleen still uses the good old 5.8L for his fastest
model. If the OHC were or even nearly as great why go through the
trouble of an engine swap?
This is no way meant to be a flame and is just my opinion feel free to
respond to anything I have said! We are all men right...and women
SORRY!!
Chris
94 Lightning #381
NLOC #238
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Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 20:06:02 EDT
From: DUMPERDAN AOL.COM
Subject: FTE Perf - HELP ME IDENTIFY A FE, 360 390 428??

I JUST BOUGHT A 70 F100 4X4. I WAS TOLD THE MILL WAS NOT ORIGINAL, AND IT
WAS A 428. IT SURE LOOKS LIKE THE 390 IN MY OTHER F100. THERE ARE CASTING
NUMBERS THAT ARE NOT ON MY OTHER BLOCK. RIGHT SIDE HAS: D3TE. LEFT SIDE:
442. ANYONE HELP ME ID THIS THING??
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Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 21:17:32 EDT
From: Bogginf350 AOL.COM
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - HELP ME IDENTIFY A FE, 360 390 428??

d3t3 means it was cast in or around 1973 prob a 360
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Date: Fri, 09 Apr 1999 23:03:56 -0500
From: Sven Setterdahl
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - V10 Ford?

>
> > Ford 6.8L V-10 275 hp
> > Dodge 8.0L V-10 300-450hp(depends wether its a truck or a viper) the key
> > is the torque from just off idle is over 400 ft lbs and never falls
> > below this number! I bet it will be a long time before we see a OHC
> > motor do that!
> > Chris
>
> I fail to understand the logic - OHC = low torque - hmm .... how about an 8L
> modular - then what - let's compare apples to apples here.
>
> Bill

As much logic here as in the general's camp. There there's is OHV = high power!

Talk about irony :)

Sven

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Date: Fri, 09 Apr 1999 23:15:45 -0500
From: Sven Setterdahl
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - V10 Ford?

>
>
> Strange. OHC is putting MORE _torque_ to the ground...at a LOWER r/min, with
> TALLER gears than either of the pushrod engines.
>
> Isn't it about time you realize that OHC is not that bad? Also, FWIW, the
> 5.4 is the ONLY _truck_ engine ever named to the Wards 10 best engines list.
> Not the pushrod Mopar nor any pushrod GM Vortec. Their words were (and this
> is from memory, but you can read the article on their website) "overhead-cam
> truck motors work".
>
> Rob
>

Ahh, finally someone else that can see through the propaganda and stereotypes :) It
seems like it's very hard for people to get past the fact that the engines are OHC.
Once you do get past this, you will see that Ford's modular engines surpass, or match
the old engines performance. Just looking at the peak power numbers doesn't tell the
whole story. If you look at the torque curve of the 5.4L, it's very flat with two
slight bulges in power output. GM talks about their flat torque curves with their new
engines, but I have yet to see one published by them or anyone. It maybe flat, but
it's still no match for the 5.4L, which has the GM beat from idle all the way to the
top in torque. And judging by the dyno results shown here, Ford is finally building a....

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