perf-list-digest Tuesday, April 6 1999 Volume 02 : Number 078



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Ford Truck Enthusiasts - Performance
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In this issue:

Re: FTE Perf - EFI on new 460 engines
Re: FTE Perf - A/F monitor /48 coversion
Re: FTE Perf - A/F monitor /48 coversion
Re: FTE Perf - A/F monitor /48 coversion
RE: FTE Perf - Rebuilding a 302
FTE Perf - RE: EFI for 400.
Re: FTE Perf - A/F monitor /48 coversion
RE: FTE Perf - Rebuilding a 302
Re: FTE Perf - Electronic ignition
FTE Perf - 1984 Bronco
Re: FTE Perf - 1984 Bronco
FTE Perf - Ignitions
FTE Perf -a new 302
Re: FTE Perf -a new 302
Re: FTE Perf - A/F monitor /48 coversion
RE: FTE Perf - Rebuilding a 302
Re: FTE Perf - A/F monitor /48 coversion
Re: FTE Perf - 1984 Bronco
Re: FTE Perf - Ignitions
Re: FTE Perf - A/F monitor /48 coversion
FTE Perf - Thinking of you

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Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 08:31:41 -0500
From: William S Hart
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - EFI on new 460 engines

> I have been doing some research on EFI conversions, and factory EFI. I
>wish to convert my 400 to Port Injection. If I can find some of the
>parts in the scrap yard, then my project will be feasable. Limited funds
>require a combination of home brew stuff and used parts.
>
> Questions:
>
> Do the new 460 engines use Port Fuel Injection or are they still TBI?
>
There's actually no such thing as a "new" 460 any more, they quit making
them in 97 I think ... but they were port fuel injected, the last ones from
9? on ...

> What are the connection for the E40D.. ie: wiring and functions of
>same?
>
Baumann engineering makes a kit to help out with this swap, I think there's
a link off the FTE homepage for them ...

I posted this to the 61-79 list, but here's what I was thinking for my FE :

Does anyone know how hard it would be to use the SEFI off of a late model
mustang ? Since they make stroker 302's that go up to something like 380
ci, couldn't you just get a chip burned that told the motor it was a 394 or
400 or whatever displacement you have ? I know they also make
reprogrammable computers for those where you just plug in your laptop ...

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Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 08:36:17 -0500
From: William S Hart
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - A/F monitor /48 coversion

>Yes, but look at the vehicles out there today with all wheel drive
>capabilities...

I think you will find that 75% of those that sit low and have AWD have
either a hydraulic assist (instead of drive shafts) or are front wheel
drive to start with, so all they do is run a PTO style tranny, that feeds
power to a ds that goes to a fully independent rear suspension. The
Volvo's I think may be one of the exceptions, but looking at the size of
their drive shafts, you won't want to run a V10's power through them ...



Even the wife mentioned the
>other day about just having a frame built specifically for the car that
>would accomodate the V10/Auto with 4 wheel drive. Guess she is a great
>example of women's intuition. Thanks again for all the input concerning
>this. I'm still researching, and as it progresses, I'll keep you all
>informed.

See if you can find the local hotrodders, they will have experience doing
things like this. The guys my dad hangs out with have built some of the
top rods in the nation, I got to see their shop, wow was that impressive!
One of the guys added 4" to a frame for a 32 in one night! I'm always
impressed by people who can work with metals so well, ask around at
car-shows and stuff, there are usually guys around who will help you out.
If you're willing to pay them, some of them may even do a lot of the work
for you ...


Just my 2cents

wish

Links http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish/links.html
'73 1/2 ton 4x4 Ford http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish/truck.html
'96 Mustang GT http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish/mustang.html
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Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 09:08:22 -0500
From: "C. K. Hartline"
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - A/F monitor /48 coversion

My brother in law says he has a frame guy who's great and I'm gonna go over
and get his professional opinion in the next few weeks...

And as far as the 4x4 goes, it'll be HD or I won't build it...no
seince putting parts up under it designed to fail...I don't make money like
Bill Gates

Thanks again for the tips...

C.K.

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Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 09:11:35 -0500
From: "C. K. Hartline"
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - A/F monitor /48 coversion

Oh and for what it's worth, it's a 1941 Ford... although they have the
same body style through to 48, they changed it in 1949...

C.K.

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Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 09:26:04 -0500
From: "Baldwin, Dave (CPCP Design)"
Subject: RE: FTE Perf - Rebuilding a 302

Bryan,

I did some web searching for these "tri-y" headers, since they are supposed
to be "better" for low-speed torque, but came up dry (at least for the
302/5.0L). My exhaust system is probably going to need replacement in the
next year so I'm interested in finding out about the availability (sources?)
and performance (has anyone ever used both who can quantify the difference
between these, conventional long-tube, and shorties). What about stepped
headers and the like?

Dave.

- -----Original Message-----
From: Bryan G Sheffler [mailto:bubba-g500xl juno.com]
Sent: Thursday, April 01, 1999 12:38 AM
To: perf-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - Rebuilding a 302

...Complete it with a set of headers, keeping in mind
that you do not need BIG tube headers for a slightly warmed over street
motor- a set of "Tri-y's" would be perfect...

Bryan
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Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 07:40:58 -0700
From: "Chris Samuel"
Subject: FTE Perf - RE: EFI for 400.

From: George Ramsower`
Subject: FTE Perf - EFI on new 460 engines
SNIP
I wish to convert my 400 to Port Injection. If I can find some of the
parts in the scrap yard, then my project will be feasable. Limited funds
require a combination of home brew stuff and used parts.
SNIP
Does anyone here have the technology to build a sheet metal intake for
the 400?
I can supply the specs for the runners.

Yes, I can build you whatever manifold that you want. Drop me a note off
line and we can kick around what you want.
I have been working on this idea also. Not for power directly but so that I
can build a more radical engine and "de-tune" it to emissions test settings
at the key stroke of a lap top. In other words skreeew the EPA!
I have the Accell ECU to make that part go easy as I didn't want to mess
with "adapting" any factory junk.
My plan was to develop the Maps on the Dyno and then make them and the
manifold available, if there was enough interest. Anyone interested???

Muel


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Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 09:40:42 -0500
From: William S Hart
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - A/F monitor /48 coversion

>My brother in law says he has a frame guy who's great and I'm gonna go over
>and get his professional opinion in the next few weeks...
>
Great ...

>And as far as the 4x4 goes, it'll be HD or I won't build it...no
>sense putting parts up under it designed to fail...I don't make money like
>Bill Gates
>
Okay ... I guess, except all parts are "designed to fail" actually they're
just designed to last through so many cycles, including HD and LD parts.
The advantage to the AWD systems is that they are designed to turn corners
too, so they will likely last longer since I would guess most of your
driving will be around town on dry pavement. As for the hydraulic assist,
they've been using hydrostatic drives on tractors for probably billions of
hours now, and the failure rate is fairly low ...


Just my 2cents

wish

Links http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish/links.html
'73 1/2 ton 4x4 Ford http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish/truck.html
'96 Mustang GT http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish/mustang.html
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Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 09:42:17 -0500
From: William S Hart
Subject: RE: FTE Perf - Rebuilding a 302

>I did some web searching for these "tri-y" headers, since they are supposed
>to be "better" for low-speed torque, but came up dry (at least for the
>302/5.0L). My exhaust system is probably going to need replacement in the
>next year so I'm interested in finding out about the availability (sources?)
>and performance (has anyone ever used both who can quantify the difference
>between these, conventional long-tube, and shorties). What about stepped
>headers and the like?
>

What application are you looking for the headers for ? The 289 tri-y's
should fit on most 302 heads I would think, unless Ford changed the bolt
patterns or something goofy ... also check FPA ...

http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.fordpowertrain.com/



Just my 2cents

wish

Links http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish/links.html
'73 1/2 ton 4x4 Ford http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish/truck.html
'96 Mustang GT http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish/mustang.html
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Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 08:05:47 -0700
From: "Bill Beyer"
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - Electronic ignition

There was an extensive discussion on this a couple of weeks ago. You might
want to check the archives. There's also a write up and "how to" article in
the May issue of Fourwheeler magazine. It includes a coil recommendation.

"If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, riddle them with bullets"

- -----Original Message-----
From: R. Pietsch
To: perf-list ford-trucks.com
Date: Saturday, April 03, 1999 2:03 PM
Subject: FTE Perf - Electronic ignition


He then told me about a system called the Ignitor by Pertronix. He
said he runs it in a Mach I that he also has and that it works quite
well. The info I got from him says it is a small unit that all fits
inside the existing distributor, converting it to an electronic system.
It seems to be a good set up and the price is only $62.00 +S&H.
My question is, have any of you knowledgable folks had any
expierience with this product, and if so, what coil would you use with
it for a good hot spark.
It sounds like a pretty good deal to me. I am thinking about
installing it on The Rat until I can save up he buck$ for the Jacobs
system.
I welcome all, and thank you all for any input you can give.





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Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 08:34:21 -0700
From: "Vierra, William BGI SF"
Subject: FTE Perf - 1984 Bronco

I have an opportunity to by a 1984 Bronco that's wreaked. It will be a
parts donor for my 51 F-1. It has a 302, Automatic A/C. That's all the
information I have so far as I have not seen the truck yet. Does anyone
have an opinion on that year motor, transmission and rear end as that is
what I am most interest in.

Thanks.
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Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 08:49:53 -0700
From: "Bill Beyer"
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - 1984 Bronco

I hope you want the F-1 to be 4wd because the 4wd trans is not the same as
the 2wd. It has a shorter mainshaft & the tailshaft housing is different so
the xfer case can bolt up.

"If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, riddle them with bullets"

- -----Original Message-----
From: Vierra, William BGI SF
To: perf-list-digest ford-trucks.com
Date: Monday, April 05, 1999 8:37 AM
Subject: FTE Perf - 1984 Bronco


>I have an opportunity to by a 1984 Bronco that's wreaked. It will be a
>parts donor for my 51 F-1. It has a 302, Automatic A/C. That's all the
>information I have so far as I have not seen the truck yet. Does anyone
>have an opinion on that year motor, transmission and rear end as that is
>what I am most interest in.
>
>Thanks.
>== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
>


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Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 09:42:22 -0700
From: "Tom Higgins"
Subject: FTE Perf - Ignitions

Greetings all,

I'm new to the list (I've been on the 80-96 for about 1/2 yr. now)
and saw someone mention the Jacob's electronic ignition. My
302 F150 2 wd Auto (1996) just went "off warranty" and I'm now
looking to make some performance upgrades (time and money
permitting). Does anyone have any experience with Jacob's
products? Obviously their advertising makes them look great
but is reality even close? Will I get a slight increase in power and
more importantly will I indeed extend engine life? What about
other ignition systems. Do they really increase HP to any appreciable
degree? Most of my driving is commuting but I do want to be able
to use my truck to occasionally tow. I realize that these may be
"basic" questions to the list so I apologize for covering any "old"
material.

Thanks for any input

Tom in Phoenix


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Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 17:23:05 EDT
From: Genlee97 AOL.COM
Subject: FTE Perf -a new 302

I'm thinking about building a short block 302 for my 1984 F-150. The engine
right now has 118,000 miles on it and I would like to freshen things up a
little. I was thinking the cheapest way to do it would be to find a 5.0 HO
engine form a junkyard and then buy a rebuild kit. After that I would pull
the heads from my old engine and freshen those up. I was thinking this would
probably be the cheapest route(but Im not so sure). I also need to get the
rods, heads, and block magnufluxed. Anyways, how much do you think this
would cost all together and is it the cheapest? Id love to just pull the
motor and rebuild it then. The only problem there is that I need the truck
for a daily driver. Thanks alot for any info and any opinions.


P.S. Ive found this your website to be the most informative yet. Keep up
the good work!
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Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 16:42:27 -0500
From: William S Hart
Subject: Re: FTE Perf -a new 302

>I'm thinking about building a short block 302 for my 1984 F-150. The engine
>right now has 118,000 miles on it and I would like to freshen things up a
>little. I was thinking the cheapest way to do it would be to find a 5.0 HO
>engine form a junkyard and then buy a rebuild kit. After that I would pull
>the heads from my old engine and freshen those up. I was thinking this would
>probably be the cheapest route(but Im not so sure). I also need to get the
>rods, heads, and block magnufluxed. Anyways, how much do you think this
>would cost all together and is it the cheapest? Id love to just pull the
>motor and rebuild it then. The only problem there is that I need the truck
>for a daily driver. Thanks alot for any info and any opinions.
>
>

I can only say this is how I am going, I needed my 360, so I bought a 390
to rebuild while I drove the truck. This is a great way to go in my
opinion, letting you enjoy your truck and take your time with the motor
(not to mention allowing me to haul the motor, I don't think Dad's tempo
would have appreciated that block in the trunk:)

Good luck, and have a good time, I have found this list to be a great
source of info for my buildup.


Just my 2cents

wish

Links http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish/links.html
'73 1/2 ton 4x4 Ford http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish/truck.html
'96 Mustang GT http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish/mustang.html
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 15:58:28 -0700
From: Dennis Pearson
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - A/F monitor /48 coversion

Thanks for your message at 09:11 AM 4/5/99 -0500, C. K. Hartline. Your
message was:
>Oh and for what it's worth, it's a 1941 Ford... although they have the
>same body style through to 48, they changed it in 1949...

I believe they changed it in 48. Just keeping things straight...

Dennis Pearson in Kennewick, WA

1962 Unibody, short box, big window--351C
1966 F250 Custom Cab, 352, 4-speed
1962 short stepside (big empty space under the hood)
I shortened this to only FT's

http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://home.att.net/~dlpearson/levi.htm
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Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 18:22:43 -0500
From: "Baldwin, Dave (CPCP Design)"
Subject: RE: FTE Perf - Rebuilding a 302

A '95 F-150 SC w/5.0. I saw the reference to tri-Y's and I didn't know they
were available for this engine. I don't have emissions testing, but may in
the future, so I may stick with a shorty when the time comes. Probably not
worth the trouble unless the heads change, too. Wayne Foy has had some
success with this engine (and also some success ripping up AODE trannies).
I would not go to the extent that he has with the mods because of the trans,
but how much can that thing take? It may be marginal, even with the engine
in stock form. I noticed in the sales brochure that the engine output was
higher for manual than automatic applications. They may have "de-tuned" the
engine to make that light-duty transmission last a little longer in a rather
heavy vehicle....

By the way, I noticed the Iowa State address. A few years ago, I ran across
an engine simulator called "dynomation" on the web, with an "iastate"
reference. Are you familiar with this?

All for now.

Dave.

- -----Original Message-----
From: William S Hart [mailto:wish iastate.edu]
Sent: Monday, April 05, 1999 9:42 AM
To: perf-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: RE: FTE Perf - Rebuilding a 302


>I did some web searching for these "tri-y" headers, since they are supposed
>to be "better" for low-speed torque, but came up dry (at least for the
>302/5.0L). My exhaust system is probably going to need replacement in the
>next year so I'm interested in finding out about the availability
(sources?)
>and performance (has anyone ever used both who can quantify the difference
>between these, conventional long-tube, and shorties). What about stepped
>headers and the like?
>

What application are you looking for the headers for ? The 289 tri-y's
should fit on most 302 heads I would think, unless Ford changed the bolt
patterns or something goofy ... also check FPA ...

http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.fordpowertrain.com/



Just my 2cents

wish

Links http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish/links.html
'73 1/2 ton 4x4 Ford http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish/truck.html
'96 Mustang GT http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish/mustang.html
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 19:50:42 -0500
From: "C. K. Hartline"
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - A/F monitor /48 coversion

Actually the trucks may have changed in 48 but the car bodies were the same
until the 49 model year...:) There were some grill changes between the
years but the overall body itself remained unchanged.

I'm working with attempting to put a truck drive train under a car body...:)

C.K.



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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 17:48:37 -0700
From: George Miller
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - 1984 Bronco

You'll get a 9" rear end out of it, with 31 spline axles and at least a
3.50:1 ratio. It's 65 1/4" wide, flange to flange. That'll do about
anything you need to do. If you need to shorten the axles, use pre '72
axles or custom axles in that carrier with the axle tubes shortened.
Currie doesn't recommend messing with the later axles.

George Miller

"Vierra, William BGI SF" wrote:
>
> I have an opportunity to by a 1984 Bronco that's wreaked. It will be a
> parts donor for my 51 F-1. It has a 302, Automatic A/C. That's all the
> information I have so far as I have not seen the truck yet. Does anyone
> have an opinion on that year motor, transmission and rear end as that is
> what I am most interest in.
>
> Thanks.
> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 21:42:05 EDT
From: JUMPINFORD AOL.COM
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - Ignitions

Yup, I just put it on my 74 F-350. I saw all the gains they talked about,
including an extra 1.6 mpg. I dont know if you will see the same gains
though, as my truck was ready for plugs, and was using the old Dura Spark.
Thats also the main reason I had for buying the Jacobs. More than once I've
been caught off guard in an old ford when the old Duraspark box would quit on
me. Any more questions, just ask.

Darrell Duggan
74 F-350 "Tweety"
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 19:18:56 -0700
From: Dennis Pearson
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - A/F monitor /48 coversion

Thanks for your message at 07:50 PM 4/5/99 -0500, C. K. Hartline. Your
message was:
>Actually the trucks may have changed in 48 but the car bodies were the same
>until the 49 model year...:) There were some grill changes between the
>years but the overall body itself remained unchanged.
>
>I'm working with attempting to put a truck drive train under a car body...:)

Oops! I'm so geared to Ford Trucks I automatically responded not knowing
what I was responding to...

I'm working (at a snail's pace) at doing the opposite...
Dennis Pearson in Kennewick, WA

1962 Unibody, short box, big window--351C
1966 F250 Custom Cab, 352, 4-speed
1962 short stepside (big empty space under the hood)
I shortened this to only FT's

http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://home.att.net/~dlpearson/levi.htm
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 22:31:00 -0700
From: "Chris Samuel"
Subject: FTE Perf - Thinking of you

I will only post this once, and please if you have a need contact me
directly, and not on the list.
I found a gold mine of parts last weekend!
My favorite engine shop is moving and they must divest themselves of most of
their inventory of cores. When the shop owner told me that he was selling
off these parts I just thought of the lists and asked if he would let me
post the parts here first.
Here is the list, I am currently the only person that has been authorized to
offer these parts.

Bare Head Castings:
1 PR.GT 390 $75 EA.
6 PR. Large Valve 390/428 $50 EA.
2 PR. 2BBL. Cleveland.$75 EA.
1 PR. 289 Hi Pro $250 PR.
8 EA. Misc. Windsor Heads. $50 EA

1 EA. 390 Crank $100
2 EA. 390 Blocks $50
1 EA. 351 Cleveland Block $50....


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